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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 14:04:19
I just added 5mg Ritalin 2-3 times daily to my Cymbalta 90mg & I feel great. (The Cymbalta worked for depression and anxiety, but I still had heavy ADD symptoms.) I'm wondering if I'm feeling *too* great. Maybe I should drop back to 60mg Cymbalta. Do stims increase the effect of ADs? I'd be interested in hearing other folks' experiences, not just with Ritalin / Cymbalta, but other stim / AD combinations as well.
Posted by stargazer2 on May 11, 2010, at 15:58:25
In reply to Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 14:04:19
Chujoe,
It is just a theory of mine that ADD can cause or greatly contribute to depression, so therefore if the ADD is treated correctly, some of the depressive symptoms will be reduced or eliminated.
So I do believe it is possible to reduce the dose of an AD when the stim is effectively reducing other symptoms that contribute to the entire condition.
I think my depression is related to my nervous system's inability to screen out extraneous stimuli, so I get easily overloaded with too much stimuli, causing me to shutdown and become depressed.
Basically I think symptoms of ADD are the result of too much information overloading one's ability to sort through everything, determine what is important to respond to and keeping everything in good balance.
So if a stimulant works, it can help sort through everything more efficently, thereby reducing depressive symptoms, like poor self esteem, which can result from feeling like you are not handling things very well. My depression always compares my shortocomings to other people and I see myself as being defective. I never feel like I measure up to others.
So, I'm not sure if stims increase the effects of AD's or reduce the stimuli that can contribute to depressive feelings. Bottom line is relief of symptoms.
Star
Posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 16:40:11
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by stargazer2 on May 11, 2010, at 15:58:25
SG2, your theory makes a lot of sense to me. I think ADD should probably be my primary dx. For years I used alcohol to tamp down the information overload -- I rarely got drunk, but could have a drink per hour and get a lot of creative work done. I didn't really carve alcohol, but I suppose I craved the peace it gave me. Then it stopped working and a couple of years ago I stopped drinking, which is when the anxiety / depression / ADD kicked in -- stuff I'd been keeping at arm's length with alcohol.
Posted by linkadge on May 11, 2010, at 17:08:16
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs? » stargazer2, posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 16:40:11
I have been taking ritalin alongside lexapro. For me, ritalin actually works better and more consistenly than the lexapro. I had been hospitalized before with bipolar symptoms but the diagnosis never stuck as I never identified with highs.
The ritalin calms my brain down and I just feel normal. I'm only taking a minimum dose of lexapro and a little amitriptyline for sleep.
Linkadge
Posted by alchemy on May 11, 2010, at 19:19:40
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by linkadge on May 11, 2010, at 17:08:16
> I have been taking ritalin alongside lexapro. For me, ritalin actually works better and more consistenly than the lexapro. I had been hospitalized before with bipolar symptoms but the diagnosis never stuck as I never identified with highs.
>Linkadge -
do you take a stabilizer? if not, how long have you been on ritalin? i'm just curious because i didn't think i was bipolar but adderall quickly sent me up & down (adderall+abilify=hospital). now i am lamictal and added dexadrine, so i am a nervous about it happening again.
Posted by desolationrower on May 11, 2010, at 20:19:47
In reply to Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 14:04:19
um its not uncommon to feel great when taking a stim. thats why they are one of the more addictive drugs.
might want to drop dosage, use a longer-acting version.
-d/r
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 11, 2010, at 21:04:21
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by desolationrower on May 11, 2010, at 20:19:47
Friends,
I would like for those interested in this discussion to view the following video. if you could, then you could make a more informed deciaion as to if taking the drug couuld give you benefits that would outweigh the risks.
Lou
To view this video:
A. bring up google
B. Type in
youtube, depression cymbalta more
if more than one comnes up, try the first one and the time is 2:28
Posted by bearfan on May 12, 2010, at 3:18:36
In reply to Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 14:04:19
Maybe slightly, but it seems more like the AD increase the properties of the stims. This probally has to do with the AD metabolism and making a standard stimulant dose seem stornger.
Posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 5:41:14
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by desolationrower on May 11, 2010, at 20:19:47
Thanks to everyone who has posted. Now that I've been on Ritalin for several days I find that the euphoria has subsided and I'm just a lot more focused. Partly, too, my euphoria was the result of a "Hey, this stuff really works!" kind of reaction. I've found that I don't need the maximum daily dose of 15 mg, I just take 5 in the morning and five in the mid-afternoon, since I like to work in the evenings. It hasn't seemed to mess up my sleep, which was a major worry. This seems to be the way to go at this point, though I may look into dropping my Cymbalta back to 60 from the current 90 after I'm sure about the way things are going.
Lou, thanks for your concern, but I'm honestly not interested in another video about how awful psychoactive drugs are. I've done a lot of research and I know the risks. Everything has risks, but the decisions I'm making are informed decisions & made in consultation with four different medical practitioners working in consultation with each other and with me. One of these docs I've been seeing for 20 years & I have more than once trusted him with my life. I understand your point of view, but with all due respect I am just not interested.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 6:37:11
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 5:41:14
> Thanks to everyone who has posted. Now that I've been on Ritalin for several days I find that the euphoria has subsided and I'm just a lot more focused. Partly, too, my euphoria was the result of a "Hey, this stuff really works!" kind of reaction. I've found that I don't need the maximum daily dose of 15 mg, I just take 5 in the morning and five in the mid-afternoon, since I like to work in the evenings. It hasn't seemed to mess up my sleep, which was a major worry. This seems to be the way to go at this point, though I may look into dropping my Cymbalta back to 60 from the current 90 after I'm sure about the way things are going.
>
> Lou, thanks for your concern, but I'm honestly not interested in another video about how awful psychoactive drugs are. I've done a lot of research and I know the risks. Everything has risks, but the decisions I'm making are informed decisions & made in consultation with four different medical practitioners working in consultation with each other and with me. One of these docs I've been seeing for 20 years & I have more than once trusted him with my life. I understand your point of view, but with all due respect I am just not interested.cj,
You wrote,[...Lou, thanks...I'm..not interested...I understand your point of view...].
I have no kick against you taking pills, as long as I can post about potential ills. The drugs have many adverse effects, that I would like for others to do some checks.
So I like to post what could be of interest, for those that want to choose it, the vids can be life-saving, for those that do not want to loose it.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 6:50:46
In reply to Lou's reply-iphuwntudnzwthmhe » chujoe, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 6:37:11
Friends,' I would like those interested to view the following video. If you could , then the facts presented in the video could be used to decide if the benefits outweigh the risks.
Lou
To view the video;
A.bring up google
B. type in
youtube, ADHD drug linked to
if more than one comes up, use the first one that has a time of 4:51 and a date of June 15, 2009
Posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 7:02:05
In reply to Lou's request-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 6:50:46
Lou, I suggest you start your own thread. I've stated that I am not interested in your response in this thread where I asked a specific question. And I have stated that I am not interested in your videos. I think the admins have said that if someone makes such a statement, you should respect it. Of course, you can start your own thread, which I can then choose to read or not.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 7:26:39
In reply to Re: Lou's request-, posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 7:02:05
> Lou, I suggest you start your own thread. I've stated that I am not interested in your response in this thread where I asked a specific question. And I have stated that I am not interested in your videos. I think the admins have said that if someone makes such a statement, you should respect it. Of course, you can start your own thread, which I can then choose to read or not.
Friends,
This thread is about stimilents and Cymbalta and the discussion thearof. the thread concerns what others here have to say.
Now the members here could be informed about stimulents such as Ritalin and drugs like Cymbalta. So I am posating here videos concerning warnings about these drugs. These warnings could be used for people reading this thread that are not discussants. This then could give a those readers more facts to use to decide if they do or do not want to have these drugs in their system.
So I am requesting that those that are reading this thread and do not want to post, to use the email here to let me know if you would like more facts posted by me concerning the adverse effects of these drugs. And also, there could be readers that have children and are wanting to make an informed decision as to if they want their child to have these chemicals in their bodies and minds.
A reader here could also be a doctor that is questioning for themselves as to iif they want to prescribe these drugs to children. A reader here could be one that has been injured by these drugs and could know that there are members here that want to show the possible adverse effects of these drugs in order to possibly save lives.
Then there is to if the benefits outweigh the risks. Could not one decide in a better way if they had more facts before they take the drug?
Lou
Posted by SLS on May 12, 2010, at 7:52:25
In reply to Lou's request-sgtfridehy, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 7:26:39
> This thread is about stimilents and Cymbalta
More specifically, it is about the potential for one drug to increase the therapeutic effect of the other. Do you have anything to contribute on that issue?
- Scott
Posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 7:53:20
In reply to Lou's request-sgtfridehy, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 7:26:39
Lou, your posts in this thread do not reply to the question I asked; rather, they make global claims about "pills" and "chemicals," which I consider to be pejorative terms in this context. Nor was this thread about giving drugs to children. Your post is inappropriate in this thread, particularly after you were told that I was not interested.
Posted by SLS on May 12, 2010, at 8:02:27
In reply to Lou's request-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 6:50:46
I agree with the suggestion that you begin a new thread to introduce your new topic.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 11:59:00
In reply to Re: Lou's request-sgtfridehy, posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 7:53:20
> Lou, your posts in this thread do not reply to the question I asked; rather, they make global claims about "pills" and "chemicals," which I consider to be pejorative terms in this context. Nor was this thread about giving drugs to children. Your post is inappropriate in this thread, particularly after you were told that I was not interested.
cj,
You wrote,[...I..not interested...].
I agree that there are a lot of posts that anyone here may not be interested in after they read them. But OTOH, there could be someone whose life could be saved by reading a post that someone else is not interested in after they read it. This is because we are different in respect to points of view and perspctives, concerning in this case, to determine if or if not to make the decision to take a drug based upon if or of not the benefits outweigh the risks.
Now for someone to make that decision, the more benefits and risks that are known, could give the person reading more infomation to make that decision.
But there is much more than that when it comes to life or death as a result of taking mind-altering chemicals, for that could be an unreversible decision. My point of view is that posting more facts could give a better understanding as to which decision a person could take concerning , let's say, taking Ritalin or Cymbalta just by themselves to begin with and then if they decide to take one of those, then they could make a determination as to if they would want to combine them.
You see, there are other people looking at these threads that are not members here. And I would like my point of view to be posted along with other's points of views so that those reading outside the membership here could also know of aspects of these drugs, for some of those readers are in the stage where they have not taken the drug in question yet , or have taken the drug and are doubtful as to if they are to continue taking the drug or not or wanting to decide if they want their children to take the drug. My posts, I think could be educational to those people and that is a mission of this forum.
As to these drugs being chemicals, a chemist generally synthesizes psychotropic drugs. The ancient people that used mind-altering drugs generally used plants and insects and spiders and fungi and ergots and such to produce mind-altering states. Today, the chemical nature of those plants and such can be synthesized.
Now these chemicals react with the brain and nerves and the results can be known now since these psychotropic drugs have been used for many years now. There is new research results being published more and more. The jury is in in a lot of cases. And there is a verdict of the facts. These facts I will post here to save lives. I think that both sides can coexist in a thread concerning the use of a drug or the combination of drugs.
Now I do not generally post the infomation. What I do is post where the infomation can be found by bringing up google and the typing in some words for those interested to veiw ther video. Those people that do do that, do it on their own. If they do do that, they could or could not find interest. I do not know in advance if they do do that.
Lou
Posted by stargazer2 on May 12, 2010, at 12:07:46
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs? » stargazer2, posted by chujoe on May 11, 2010, at 16:40:11
Chu...makes sense..there is another poster who also would drink to control anxiety and did well on this drug of choice...it seems to be a societal problem which is more accepted than popping meds...not sure one is worse than the other except everyone has access to alcohol and only those with insurance have access to docs and meds, so not readily available for all. And alcohol is one size fits all, where meds are alot more difficult to get to the correct one.
Posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 12:26:16
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?/Chujoe, posted by stargazer2 on May 12, 2010, at 12:07:46
Yes, alcohol is a very effective drug" -- that's why it has been so popular across so many human cultures. The ancient Sumarians didn't consider the tribes who lived in the hills around their cities to be civilized because they did not brew beer. And it worked for me for quite a while, but then it didn't work any more -- it pooped out, in the lingo used around here. And when it quit working I was in real trouble, which is why I'm happy to bathe my brain in "chemicals."
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 14:12:12
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?/Chujoe, posted by stargazer2 on May 12, 2010, at 12:07:46
> Chu...makes sense..there is another poster who also would drink to control anxiety and did well on this drug of choice...it seems to be a societal problem which is more accepted than popping meds...not sure one is worse than the other except everyone has access to alcohol and only those with insurance have access to docs and meds, so not readily available for all. And alcohol is one size fits all, where meds are alot more difficult to get to the correct one.
>
>
sg2,
You wrote,[...the correct one...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A.Could it be that a person could never find {the correct one}?
B. Is a drug a {correct one} if the person thinks that it is?
C. If that drug stops what they wanted it to do, could that drug then not have been the {correct one}?
D. Do you accept what research says about the placebo effect, if you know?
E. Can the {correct drug} induce a mind-alterd state that could compell the person taking the drug to want to kill themselves or others?
F. If one does not find the {correct drug}, then could a combination of drugs then be possible to be the {correct drug}?
G. If one can not find the correct drug with a combination of drugs, then could the doses be changed so that it could be possible to find the correct drugs?
H. Do you have an idea of how many different combination couuld there be with 3 drugs and 5 different doseages?
K. Do you have an idea of how many years could it take before one finds the correct drugs if they are in the catagory above?
L. Do you know if there is a good chance that one could die from the drug(s)before they find the correct drug(s)?
M. other questions if the above are answerd.
Lou
Posted by linkadge on May 12, 2010, at 18:55:02
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs? » linkadge, posted by alchemy on May 11, 2010, at 19:19:40
I am not taking a mood stabilizer. I do take high doses of fish oil, which may moderate some of the effects. Generally, I don't take high doses of stims. 5-10mg of ritalin is plenty. At first it does give a high, but this wears off and it just helps with my depression.
Posted by linkadge on May 12, 2010, at 19:57:14
In reply to Re: Do stims increase the effects of ADs?, posted by chujoe on May 12, 2010, at 5:41:14
I never felt "great" on stims. For methyphenidate, part of the theraputic effect is thought to be conferred by d-methylphenidate, which is more selective for norepinephrine reuptake and has notable affinity for 5-ht1a (like buspar). 5-ht1a agonists are not addictive (infact they can reduce withdrawl symtpoms from drugs like heroin), and have anti-hyperkinetic effects in their own right.
I personally think that the brain quicky adapts to the pleasurable effects of dopamine reuptake inihibiton, yet other theraputic targets are still maintained.
Ritalin feels more like a mood stabilizer for me than anything else.
Linkadge
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 12, 2010, at 22:47:12
In reply to Lou's request-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 6:50:46
> Lou, thanks for your concern, but I'm honestly not interested in another video about how awful psychoactive drugs are.
>
> chujoe> Friends,' I would like those interested to view the following video...
>
> Lou> I have stated that I am not interested in your videos. I think the admins have said that if someone makes such a statement, you should respect it.
>
> chujoeLou, please be sensitive to chujoe's feelings.
But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies is in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by stargazer2 on May 13, 2010, at 16:27:25
In reply to Lou's request-prmutate » stargazer2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 12, 2010, at 14:12:12
Sorry I cannot respond to all of your questions at his time. I started to respond and then realized how long it was taking and although I could answer all of the questions the way I felt, I knew you would challenge my responses and I did not want to have to defend my views for anyone, as they are my own personal views and I do not come here to debate my decisions, unless I ask for help with a decision I cannot make on my own.
In summary, I believe in medications as a treatment for many psychiatric diagnoses. There is risk in taking meds, but for some of us, it is a risk we feel is worth it. I know your views lean towards being anti-med for the most part, I do not choose to argue, debate or defend my decisions with you. They are personal and not open for discussion at his time.
Maybe if we had a few hours in a room to do that it might make sense...but not here, not now.
Star
This is the end of the thread.
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