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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
I am a musician (electronic computer music) and making music is one of the most important things in my life. another very important thing is my sanity. I was hoping there might be some creative artistic types on here who could give me some advice. I have been taking welubutrin and seroquel for quite a while and I used to take lamictal on top of that. I noticed some deadening of the creative spirit when on all 3 and recently I feel like the seroquel is doing the same thing. I have also grown to hate the feeling of drowsiness, heart rate and other side effects of seroquel. I figure it's the seroquel that is the problem because welbutrin is a stimulant. I decided I want to switch to trazodone and get back on lamictal to help with manic stuff. I also want to drop the welbutrin because of some problems with that. I almost miss the craziness and even depression because it helped me get inspiration, but I know there is a balance I can find.
I'm worried about creative blockage and if anyone has some experiences with these meds or meds in general and their effects on creativity I would love to hear it.
By the way, you guys are all so supportive and helpful. thanks for being here:)
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 7:41:30
In reply to balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
Heyy. I'm in to computer music too, but I am just an ameteur:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub9W3V4ZBmQ
Anyhow, are you bipolar? Have you ever been on a classic mood stabilizer (ie. lithium monotherapy)
Linkadge
Posted by Bob12 on May 1, 2010, at 7:41:36
In reply to balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
I make electronic music too, and have recorded six albums, three albums since being put on zyprexa in 2001. My music was as good after the zyprexa, if not better, but the problem is the drowsiness which prevented me from recording more.
Then I was hit with tinnitus and noise sensitivity, which stopped the music for now. Which sucks.
Bob12
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2010, at 11:01:30
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 7:41:30
> Heyy. I'm in to computer music too, but I am just an ameteur:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub9W3V4ZBmQ
>
> Anyhow, are you bipolar? Have you ever been on a classic mood stabilizer (ie. lithium monotherapy)
>
> Linkadge
Lithium at higher dosages can squash creativity and make someone feel passive.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2010, at 11:03:42
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 7:41:30
Link I didn't know you were into music but you have mentioned piano a lot in the past. Must check the video. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on May 1, 2010, at 11:05:16
In reply to balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
What dosage of Lamictal are you taking? When I take more than 200mg, I get brain fog and experience impairments in cognition and memory. I would not say that it squashes creativity, but I am less apt to accomplish things.
- Scott
Posted by bleauberry on May 1, 2010, at 12:34:18
In reply to balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
I think you already said it yourself. Balance. Perhaps the doses of the meds are just too high for a balance. Sure symptoms might not be as well under control at a lower dose, but would be more in balance?
Some of the best artistic works in history were by artists who were deathly depressed and manic beyond this world.
Actually I think the most creative music was written under the influence of drugs. Think Jimi Hendrix, Beatles, and gosh, several big ones. There is no way the natural human brain could have invented some of that stuff. Not psych drugs of course.
I think music that is written when their is emotional instability has a certain something about it that the listener can feel and sense. Something intangible. Something that is not there when written by a pure clean healthy mind. Something special comes out of troubled minds. So in a strange way, there is a blessing to the madness.
I think maybe you need to experiment in finding the one or two meds, not three or more, that keep you in a somewhat stable functioning place without dulling. That rules out a lot of meds. Most will cause dulling. It is a fine balance.
If depression is the primary issue, I do not know of a better med than Parnate to keep that under control and retain creativity. A balancing act with doses, again. If mania is a concern, that's harder. Lithium, forget it. Lamictal, forget it. Antipsychotics, well, maybe low dose abilify (1mg to 5mg) or zyprexa (2.5mg-5mg). Any of the so-called mood stabilizers which really aren't (they control seizures), forget it.
Just my two cents, right or wrong.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 1, 2010, at 15:11:14
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 7:41:30
>Heyy. I'm in to computer music too, but I am just an amateur...
I'm impressed with your videos Link, you have a lot of talent.
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 17:02:50
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by bleauberry on May 1, 2010, at 12:34:18
I disagree than mental illness (or illicit drug use for that matter) is a preresquisite for creativity.
There are tons of mentally ill (and/or drug users) who are not creative - and there are plenty of creative artists who are not mentally ill.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 17:12:41
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication. » linkadge, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 1, 2010, at 15:11:14
>I'm impressed with your videos Link, you have a >lot of talent.
Thanks
Linkadge
Posted by bleauberry on May 1, 2010, at 17:49:06
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 17:02:50
I disagree with the premise that was ever said, if that is what you are referring to.
> I disagree than mental illness (or illicit drug use for that matter) is a preresquisite for creativity.
> Linkadge
Posted by conundrum on May 1, 2010, at 19:16:06
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 17:02:50
Frank Zappa is my favorite artist and he didn't use drugs or have any mental illness. He was just brilliantly different and gifted.
I think some artists do create better music when a little off balance or on substances, but some just produce utter crap as well. It really depends on the person. I think Brian Wilson is great and he was definitely disturbed. Its hard to say with drug users though, since you don't know what was written or performed when high and what wasn't.
Posted by conundrum on May 1, 2010, at 19:24:04
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by bleauberry on May 1, 2010, at 12:34:18
>Lamictal, forget it.
Great, I was just put on this for anhedonia! : ) Mainly cuz the psych is concerned with mania, since my reaction to prozac was "below hypomanic."
I love how the patient is to blame. I'm unstable all of a sudden, couldn't be that the drug was just too strong? We'll see what happens, I'm trying to be open minded. I should just shut up and play my guitar.
Posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 19:52:12
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication. » linkadge, posted by conundrum on May 1, 2010, at 19:16:06
>Its hard to say with drug users though, since >you don't know what was written or performed >when high and what wasn't.
There are musicians who are drug users and there are musicians who are not drug users - just like any other profession. Drug use is higher among the rich and famous possibly due to stress related factors of the profession.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on May 1, 2010, at 20:36:06
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 19:52:12
Link seriously watched quite a few of your videos and your're good. Love Phillipa
Posted by morganator on May 1, 2010, at 22:41:46
In reply to balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
Years of Zoloft never hurt my creativity much at all, I guess I was lucky.
If you are not sensitive to it(I was), Piracetam is supposed to be great for some with creativity, especially musicians. I think it is perfectly safe to take with most medications. I would research it well to make sure.
Posted by morganator on May 1, 2010, at 23:22:50
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by linkadge on May 1, 2010, at 19:52:12
Drug use is also higher because they usually have troubled minds. No one with a sound mind, free of some kind of emotional instability, gets hooked on drugs-rich, wealthy, or famous.
Posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 2, 2010, at 3:52:25
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication. » linkadge, posted by morganator on May 1, 2010, at 23:22:50
Hey y'all, thank you for all the responses, you guys are awesome. The bit about lamictal backs up the reasons I quit in the first place (the deadness). I was on 150mg. this time maybe i'll try a lower dose like 50mg. I do OK without it, but the mania has been coming around, and without the fun crazy creative times, just anxiety that's hard to cope with and insomnia. I've never tried anything like lithium or zyprexa, just lamactil, SSRIs and what I'm currently taking. I want to take lamactil and trazodone INSTEAD of welbutrin and seroquel because both make me feel like crap physically and I suspect they are having some bad mental side effects but for the moment my doc thought it best to make gradual switches. By the way, does anyone have their doctor looking at you like they're mad or think you're stupid when you suggest treatment options to them instead of just mindlessly following their every recomendation?
some thoughts on things being discussed:
I have done some (actually A LOT of) "expirimenting" with many different illicit drugs and the conclusion that i have come to is this: the beginning of any love affair with a bad drug starts with creativity, fun, happiness etc. and spirals downward into worse deadness than most prescriptions will likely cause, and with all the imbalances of a quality bipolar, depression, psychosis whatever(except for maybe LSD and such hahaha). I quit doing any drugs because of that and I will promptly hit myself in the face with a brick if I go back to it.When I first started seroquel and enjoyed the "high" (or low) from it I would force myself to stay awake and make music and I came up with some pretty good stuff, but after so long I just hate that feeling and have no desire to do that anymore. I'm trying to switch to trazodone for sleep.
Linkadge: I listened to your song you posted the link to. Good start. if you want some tips and more tools shoot me an email at algaethescum@gmail.com (algae is my music name)
BOB12: I'm so sad to hear about the tinnitus. I have some hearing damage from sleepless nights between a pair of headphones and every time I hear ringing in my ears I feel like my world is ending. I would love to hear some of your music if you don't mind sharing. it would make my day to hear something from somebody on here.
Phillipa: to have someone take the time to listen to music and comment back about it means the world to alot of us musicians, you are very kind.
If anyone wants to hear a bit of my music go to www.soundcloud.com/algae. it's weird and different but its got some good beats. and as far as anyone knowing who I am from that, I don't care. anyone who talks to me for ten minutes knows I'm a crazy bastard anyway.
THANK YOU ALL for such quick and helpful responses. I'm so so so glad to find people I can relate to.
Posted by hrguru on May 4, 2010, at 23:51:33
In reply to Re: balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 2, 2010, at 3:52:25
Hey y'all, thank you for all the responses, you guys are awesome. The bit about lamictal backs up the reasons I quit in the first place (the deadness). I was on 150mg. this time maybe i'll try a lower dose like 50mg. I do OK without it, but the mania has been coming around, and without the fun crazy creative times, just anxiety that's hard to cope with and insomnia. I've never tried anything like lithium or zyprexa, just lamactil, SSRIs and what I'm currently taking. I want to take lamactil and trazodone INSTEAD of welbutrin and seroquel because both make me feel like crap physically and I suspect they are having some bad mental side effects but for the moment my doc thought it best to make gradual switches. By the way, does anyone have their doctor looking at you like they're mad or think you're stupid when you suggest treatment options to them instead of just mindlessly following their every recomendation?
>
--Hi Techno! I have to say, I feel like I can really identify with you! When I started taking mood stabilizers, I felt that the creative spark in me was beginning to fade- and I couldn't stand it! It's the thing I loved most about hypomania. That being said, I have never taken the meds you've mentioned (except Wellbutrin), but I have taken just about every SSRI on the market, and most Pdocs will tell you they are bad news for those of us in the bipolar category. SSRIs are notorious for causing dysphoric mania in bipolar people. The kind of mania we can't stand! (i.e. irritability, anxiety, insomnia, and sometimes mixed w/depression). I've never tried lithium, but it's *supposed* to be the most effective for regulating both mania and depression, whereas other mood stabilizers will regulate mania better than depression or vice versa (and that's why you have to supplement it with an anti-psychotic or anti-depressant). It is really important to try to control the mania and depression though- with (at least) a mood stabilizer. Otherwise, the illness can get much, much worse. But I know that controlling bipolar is easier said than done. The thing I don't like about mood stabilizers, at least the one I'm taking (Topamax), is that for the times I've had to increase dosage, it causes cognitive impairment (a.k.a. dumb as a box of rocks syndrome). However, it has made my life FAR less chaotic! And, it took trial and error of a few meds to find a successful one that worked for me. Oh- and here's something interesting, since you mentioned anxiety. Topamax totally took away my anxiety- and I'm an anxious person. I'm dxd OCD, but I haven't had any symptoms of it at all since I started the Topamax (because it works on the Temporal Lobe of the brain). Perhaps the right mood stabilizer would also help your anxiety? It's definitely something to ask your doctor about. As far as how you are feeling on your meds, its always annoying when you realize somethings off, because this means that its due to one of the following problems: the wrong dosage, wrong med, or possibly you need to add an additional med to the mix. On top of this, you get to guess which one is the problem. I feel your frustration, because Ive been through it over and over again! Others have as well- so know that you arent alone :) This has been my personal experience, from years of trying to perfect my personal "drug cocktail" as it were...lol. It takes some work to get the pieces of the medication puzzle to fit together to the point that you don't actually feel "medicated." One day the pieces will start to fit, and you will think, "hey, I feel okay today" :) Dont give up!--I know that "look" you described from doctors all too well, when you suggest treatment options to them. Man, do they ever HATE that! :) I've gotten that look from mine before. There's no reason we should have to mindlessly be medical guinea pigs. If we don't feel comfortable taking a certain med, we shouldn't have to. Especially when these are drugs with potentially dangerous side effects. I'm totally with you on this one!
> some thoughts on things being discussed:
> I have done some (actually A LOT of) "expirimenting" with many different illicit drugs and the conclusion that i have come to is this: the beginning of any love affair with a bad drug starts with creativity, fun, happiness etc. and spirals downward into worse deadness than most prescriptions will likely cause, and with all the imbalances of a quality bipolar, depression, psychosis whatever(except for maybe LSD and such hahaha). I quit doing any drugs because of that and I will promptly hit myself in the face with a brick if I go back to it.--Wow. I have been there too, my friend. I can completely identify with everything you just said. I am actually a recovering drug (opiate) addict. I've been totally sober for more than a year, and I would probably hit myself in the face with a brick as well if I ever went back to it!
>
> When I first started seroquel and enjoyed the "high" (or low) from it I would force myself to stay awake and make music and I came up with some pretty good stuff, but after so long I just hate that feeling and have no desire to do that anymore. I'm trying to switch to trazodone for sleep.
>
--Please let us know if trazodone is effective for sleep. I have a hard time sleeping (especially when manic). I have tried several meds that don't seem to work, so please tell us the good word if it does work! :)>
> If anyone wants to hear a bit of my music go to www.soundcloud.com/algae. it's weird and different but its got some good beats. and as far as anyone knowing who I am from that, I don't care. anyone who talks to me for ten minutes knows I'm a crazy bastard anyway.
>
> THANK YOU ALL for such quick and helpful responses. I'm so so so glad to find people I can relate to.--I went to your website, and I listened to your songs and they're awesome!! My top 3 fav's are: the Little Wayne "don't trip" remix, Technically Mexican, and Piano Blister. But I loved them all! You definitely have a gift. I'm a big fan of electronic/dance music, but your music is so much better- and probably in a genre all its own. Thanks for sharing it with us! :)
Posted by chujoe on May 8, 2010, at 9:01:41
In reply to balancing creativity and medication., posted by Techno'n'PillBottles on May 1, 2010, at 7:08:35
Good article in the NY Times about the brain and creativity:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/08/books/08creative.html?pagewanted=1
This is the end of the thread.
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