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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 7:32:09
My posts described that i used GolShield brand parnate.
I seemed to strike a cord,in many ways with this,probuably because people now see there are about 3 brands,the main U.S glaxco smith brand,the U.S generic brand,and Goldshiled.
First let me state what i know.Please feel free to add to this if u are outside the U.S
--- Glaxco Smith brand,well same as usual,red rose colored,silky with what I BELIEVE is the name of the company,although i am sure there is some sort of imprint on it.Resemble M&M`S fairly thick.--- U.S Based generic,still fairly thick,no imprinting,not silky,resembles the current nardil tabs,however the generic parnate do seem to be built well and hold togther.
--- GloLD Shield slighty small,comes in a small canister like case,small is underused,i mean tiny,cute even,top pops off.Effective,imprinting on the tab,tabs do seem to at times break apart so they do need care in handling,otherwise fine.
All of the above work,the last i believed might have worked better,more stimulative but never had the chance to totaly isolate it.*********Now heres the bomb shell **********
The last known parnate i seen says it is from goldshield,HOWEVER unlike any of the U.S based ones,OR THE MENTIONED GOLDSHIELD above,this one differed.
FIRST in came in a box,within blistered packs.SECOND it had no imprinting on the tab,none.
THIRD Thin,i mean thin,thin as a button on a shirt.
FOURTH in my case made me very sick,interacted with almost everything i normaly take with my usual parnate,i.e klonopin,nuerontion,etc.
It did this in a major way.In addition it did not help.
So im left to wonder if this last brand i had,which i also waited a long time for,was some sort of,well i dont even know.
I hope this makes sense,if allowed id be more tan happy to take a photo of the tabs and its packing and link it,but i dont know if thats allowed.Please let me know.
*****FINAL NOTES ************
I did provide companies with my docters presription information.Also as far as i know,regardless,parnate still comes in 10 mg only tabs,and when countless docters prescribe it at 20 it does scare me a little.
Anyway hope this made sense,the reasoning for going outside the normal brand was a mixture of insurance,pharmacy problems,and curisioty.
Posted by halcyondaze on January 10, 2007, at 9:37:48
In reply to About my over seas., posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 7:32:09
Maybe you could contact a UK pharmacist and find out if there are any other UK brands?
What did you think of the effects of the US generic, by the way? I've only ever taken GSK's brand, and I continue to pay the extra $20 per month because Parnate is such a fickle drug I just don't trust a new formulation when this is already working for me. I've even been able to reduce my dose lately, to 60 mg. :) I have been as high as 130 before.
I have read a lot of stories about counterfeit medication rings and the trouble in prosecuting them, especially overseas. I wonder if it is possile that you got a "dirty" batch?
Posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 10:16:49
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by halcyondaze on January 10, 2007, at 9:37:48
I personaly believe i did,i got a overseas before from one other pharmacy and always available,always truthful,even called me on occasion.
Being cheap i went for Goldsield at another,and yess i think what i have is dirty,im myself today where as the days i used it waiting for my U.S med i was a different sick person.
As far as the U.S generic goes,i was skeptical at first,and although i cant say i noticed a negative differance,i too passed on the genric,however again i had no reason legit wise to believe it was floored.
Both the NORMAL goldshield (which i believe is better) and the generic U.S worked as should.
It was this odd looking goldshield that interacted with all my normal meds which parnate never ever did in years,i was getting high everyday,not good high either,i was embarrsed to walk around people with my eyes.
Also the latter parnate although all cause insomnia,this one seemed to case a ugly,amphetmine type of insomnia,needless to say the remainging box will sit in a drawer for purposed of none other than showing it to avoid its use.
> Maybe you could contact a UK pharmacist and find out if there are any other UK brands?
>
> What did you think of the effects of the US generic, by the way? I've only ever taken GSK's brand, and I continue to pay the extra $20 per month because Parnate is such a fickle drug I just don't trust a new formulation when this is already working for me. I've even been able to reduce my dose lately, to 60 mg. :) I have been as high as 130 before.
>
> I have read a lot of stories about counterfeit medication rings and the trouble in prosecuting them, especially overseas. I wonder if it is possile that you got a "dirty" batch?
Posted by Quintal on January 10, 2007, at 11:01:15
In reply to About my over seas., posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 7:32:09
Willyee could you take a photo and link it? - it is allowed. I'm curious about this new Parnate. I get the ones that you described as the 'normal' Goldshield.
I can contact Goldshield here in the UK if you like to see what they have to say about it? I phoned them a while ago when my pharmacy told me Parnate was unavailable and they were very helpful.
Q
Posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 14:07:09
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » willyee, posted by Quintal on January 10, 2007, at 11:01:15
The Parnate I was Rxd was Goldshield. Flat like a button, marone(?), no print, but with 'Parnate'on the box.
In another thread someone (Tomatheus?) was saying something good about it
Posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 16:13:04
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » willyee, posted by Quintal on January 10, 2007, at 11:01:15
> Willyee could you take a photo and link it? - it is allowed. I'm curious about this new Parnate. I get the ones that you described as the 'normal' Goldshield.
>
> I can contact Goldshield here in the UK if you like to see what they have to say about it? I phoned them a while ago when my pharmacy told me Parnate was unavailable and they were very helpful.
>
> QIll take a pic of each one and have them labeled.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 12, 2007, at 1:18:36
In reply to About my over seas., posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 7:32:09
Willyee,
See below for my responses to various portions of your post...
> --- Glaxco Smith brand,well same as usual,red rose colored,silky with what I BELIEVE is the name of the company,although i am sure there is some sort of imprint on it.Resemble M&M`S fairly thick.
Yep. Parnate tablets are labeled with the text "Parnate SB." The "SB" stands for SmithKline Beecher, which merged with Glaxo Wellcome in 2000 to form GlaxoSmithKline. I'm not sure why they never relabeled the tablets to say something like "Parnate GSK" instead of "Parnate SB," but according to this year's Physicians' Desk Reference (Thomson PDR, 2007), the tablets are still "debossed with the product name PARNATE and SB."
The inactive ingredients in GSK's current formulation of Parnate include cellulose, citric acid, croscarmellose sodium, D&C Red No. 7, FD&C Blue No. 2, FD&C Red No. 40, FD&C Yellow No. 6, gelatin, lactose, magnesium stearate, talc, titanium dioxide, and trace amounts of other inactive incredients (Thomson PDR, 2007).
The PDR also described Parnate tablets as being "round," "rose-red," and "film-coated."
> --- U.S Based generic,still fairly thick,no imprinting,not silky,resembles the current nardil tabs,however the generic parnate do seem to be built well and hold togther.
I have never personally taken the generic version of Parnate that's available in the U.S. (manufactured by Kali Laboratories, a subsidiary of Par Pharmaceutical Companies, Inc.), but some of the things that I've read about it seem to be consistent with what you've written.
The prescribing information document for the generic tranylcypromine sulfate product that's available in the U.S. (Par Pharmaceutical Companies, Inc., 2006) includes the following statements under the "Description" heading:
"Chemically, tranylcypromine sulfate is (+/-)-trans-2-phenylcyclopropylamine sulfate (2:1)."
"Each round, dark pink, film-coated tablet is debossed with '250' on one side and 'K' on the other side and contains tranylcypromine sulfate equivalent to 10 mg of tranylcypromine. Inactive ingredients consist of colloidal silicon dioxide, croscarmellose sodium, dibasic calcium phosphate anhydrous, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, talc, and Opadry(R) II pink 85F14289. Opadry pink is used for purposes of coating and contains the following: FD&C Red # 40, polyethylene glycol 3350, polyvinyl alcohol, talc, and titanium dioxide."
So, in other words, the formulation of the generic tranylcypromine clearly is not exactly the same as that of the brand-name Parnate, but both the GSK and Par Pharmaceutical versions of Parnate/tranylcypromine have film coatings. I have read a few (three or four) anecdotal reports on this board and elsewhere suggesting that the efficacy of the generic is comparable to that of the name-brand product.
> --- GloLD Shield slighty small,comes in a small canister like case,small is underused,i mean tiny,cute even,top pops off.Effective,imprinting on the tab,tabs do seem to at times break apart so they do need care in handling,otherwise fine.
The Goldshield product that I've been taking (the generic "Tranylcypromine" that's marketed in the U.K.) in combination with SAM-e is consistent with the product that you described above. Each bottle contains 28 tablets and a cylindrical object that is apparently filled with silica gel. The text "FW 251" is imprinted on each tablet.
According to the patient information leaflet that comes with each bottle of tranylcypromine (Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Ltd, 2001), the tablets contain the following inactive ingredients: sucrose, maize starch, calcium sulphate dihydrate, sodium carboxymethyl cellulose (E466), magnesium stearate (E572), gelatin, dioctyl sodium sulphosuccinate, talc (E553[b]), pharmaceutical glaze, kaolin (E559), calcium carbonate (E170), ethyl cellulose, arabic gum (acacia E414), carmoisine (E122), ponceau 4R (E124), titanium dioxide (E171), carnauba wax, and edible black ink.
Pharmaceutical glaze, also known as "shellac," is water-insoluble at low pH levels and water-soluble at high pH levels, and it's used as an enteric coating agent (Pearnchob et al., 2004). It was an inactive ingredient in the "old" Nardil (Parke-Davis Division of Pfizer Inc., 2002), but not the "new" Nardil (Parke-Davis Division of Pfizer Inc., 2003).
> All of the above work,the last i believed might have worked better,more stimulative but never had the chance to totaly isolate it.
I personally found Goldshield's U.K. version of tranylcypromine to be more stimulating than the GlaxoSmithKline version of Parnate. Specifically, the midday fatigue that literally knocked me out every afternoon while I was taking 20 mg/day of the GSK Parnate seemed to be completely nonexistent while I was taking 20 mg/day of Goldshield's U.K. product.
Of course, it is possible that some individuals might not notice as dramatic of a difference between the two versions of Parnate/tranylcypromine as I did. I also can't say what kind of difference I might have felt between the two versions of the drug if I were taking it at a higher dose.
> *********Now heres the bomb shell **********
>
>
> The last known parnate i seen says it is from goldshield,HOWEVER unlike any of the U.S based ones,OR THE MENTIONED GOLDSHIELD above,this one differed.
>
>
> FIRST in came in a box,within blistered packs.
>
> SECOND it had no imprinting on the tab,none.
>
> THIRD Thin,i mean thin,thin as a button on a shirt.
>
> FOURTH in my case made me very sick,interacted with almost everything i normaly take with my usual parnate,i.e klonopin,nuerontion,etc.
>
> It did this in a major way.In addition it did not help.
>
> So im left to wonder if this last brand i had,which i also waited a long time for,was some sort of,well i dont even know.I'm wondering if the Goldshield product that you described above might be the version of Parnate/tranylcypromine that the company markets in Australia, New Zealand, or perhaps elsewhere. Unlike the version of the the drug that is marketed in the U.K., Parnate is marketed under its brand name in Australia and, and the pack size is 50, not 28 (Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Ltd., n.d.). Did the blister packs that you received contain 50 tablets each? If so, you might have been taking the version of the drug that's marketed in Australia or New Zealand.
Interestingly, I also noticed on Goldshield's Web site that they market Parnate capsules (not tablets) in Ireland and the Netherlands, so I wouldn't be surprised if the formulation of the Goldshield product that you described above (wherever it came from) were indeed different from the first Goldshield product that you described (which I'm guessing is the U.K. version). Of course, I can only speculate as to whether or not the versions of the Goldshield Parnate/tranylcypromine that are marketed in certain countries are more effective than the versions that are marketed in other countries. However, considering that Goldshield manufactures Parnate/tranylcypromine as tablets for some countries and as capsules for others, it would make sense that the coating and/or dissolution/degradation properties of the drug might too differ from one country to the next -- possibly to the extent that there might be some variations in effectiveness.
Of course, I'm just speculating here. As far as I know, the version of Parnate/tranylcypromine that's marketed in the U.K. might not be significantly different from the versions of the drug that it markets elsewhere -- at least in terms of the drug's ingredients, type of coating, and dissolution/degradation properties. Judging from what you've written, though, it would be my guess that your responses to the two different types of the Goldshield Parnate probably differed because of formulation differences between the two products.
But then again, that's just a guess.
Tomatheus
==
REFERENCES
Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Ltd. (2001). Patient information leaflet on 'Tranylcypromine' tablets, 10mg. (Available from Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Ltd.; NLA Tower, Croydon, Surrey CRO OXT. U.K.).
Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Ltd. (n.d.). Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Australasia. Retrieved January 12, 2007, from the Goldshield Pharmaceuticals Ltd Web site, http://www.goldshield-pharmaceuticals.com/Australasia.htm
Par Pharmaceutical Companies, Inc. (2006). Tranylcypromine sulfate tablets 10 mg, prescribing information. (Available from Par Pharmaceutical Companies, Inc.; Spring Valley, NY 10977; United States).
Parke-Davis Division of Pfizer Inc. (2002). Nardil(R) (Phenelzine sulfate tablets, USP), labeling information. Retrieved January 13, 2006, from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's Web site: http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2002/11909slr030lbl.pdf
Parke-Davis Division of Pfizer Inc. (2003). Nardil(R) (Phenelzine sulfate tablets, USP), labeling information. Retrieved January 13, 2006, from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's Web site: http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2003/11909slr033_nardil_lbl.pdf
Pearnchob, N., Dashevsky, A. & Bodmeier, R. (2004). Improvement in the distintegration of shellac-coated soft gelatin capsules in simulated intestinal fluid. Journal of Controlled Release, 94, 313-321.
Thomson PDR. (2007). Physicians' desk referencde (61st ed.). Montvale, NJ: Author.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 12, 2007, at 1:29:37
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by Declan on January 10, 2007, at 14:07:09
> The Parnate I was Rxd was Goldshield. Flat like a button, marone(?), no print, but with 'Parnate'on the box.
>
> In another thread someone (Tomatheus?) was saying something good about itYeah, that was me. However, the Goldshield product that I've been taking has the following qualities:
* It's marketed in the U.K. under the generic name "Tranylcypromine."
* It's not completely flat. It's basically the same size and shape as a mini M&M (sorry about making yet another candy reference).
* Each tablet is pinkish and contains the text "FW 251."
In the reply that I just wrote on this thread to Willyee, I described my response to the U.K. version of the Goldshield Parnate/tranylcypromine as follows:
"I personally found Goldshield's U.K. version of tranylcypromine to be more stimulating than the GlaxoSmithKline version of Parnate. Specifically, the midday fatigue that literally knocked me out every afternoon while I was taking 20 mg/day of the GSK Parnate seemed to be completely nonexistent while I was taking 20 mg/day of Goldshield's U.K. product."
"Of course, it is possible that some individuals might not notice as dramatic of a difference between the two versions of Parnate/tranylcypromine as I did. I also can't say what kind of difference I might have felt between the two versions of the drug if I were taking it at a higher dose."
Tomatheus
Posted by halcyondaze on January 12, 2007, at 18:53:17
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » Declan, posted by Tomatheus on January 12, 2007, at 1:29:37
This is what GSK Parnate looks like:
<< http://www.clubcultura.com/php_lib/imagen.php?arc_id=5992 >>
Was not able to find images of any generics.
Posted by Quintal on January 21, 2007, at 0:37:48
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by willyee on January 10, 2007, at 16:13:04
I managed to upload two photos of the Goldshield brand tranylcypromine box and tablets. Please excuse the pubic hair that seems to have sneaked its way into the close-up.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/Serepham/GoldshieldParnate3.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/Serepham/GoldshieldParnate2.jpg
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 22, 2007, at 11:37:06
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by Quintal on January 21, 2007, at 0:37:48
Hi Q
The Goldshield brand of tranylcypromine is now the only brand available in the UK. The 'Parnate' brand was recently discontinued. Recently, Parnate had been supplied by Goldshield however, so it was probably the same tablets.
Ed
Posted by Quintal on January 22, 2007, at 12:29:24
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » Quintal, posted by ed_uk on January 22, 2007, at 11:37:06
Is that the same brand of tranylcypromine you have with the damaged packaging at your pharmacy?
Q
Posted by ed_uk on January 22, 2007, at 12:43:11
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by Quintal on January 21, 2007, at 0:37:48
Yes, that's right.
Ed
Posted by okydoky on November 2, 2008, at 14:27:53
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by Quintal on January 21, 2007, at 0:37:48
I don't know if you'll read this as the thread is old.
I ordered "Goldshield Pharmaceuticals" Parnate.
It had no markings at all on it. The tablets were tiny red slivers. I looked up the box on their site and it is different than what I received. I am thinking it is bad stuff?
It says Parnate and underneath it the generic name. I will write the place I ordered it from but I do not think I will get any response.
What is your opinion?
oky
Posted by Quintal on November 2, 2008, at 20:01:25
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » Quintal, posted by okydoky on November 2, 2008, at 14:27:53
Do you have a camera to upload a shot? Mine just had tranylcypromine on the box, no reference to the Parnate trade name. The tablets I was given had markings on them. Did you look at the old photos I posted? It would be a strange drug to counterfeit, but since you've had a bad reaction to it I think it's reasonable to assume there's something different in this formulation that's irritating your bladder.
Q
Posted by okydoky on November 2, 2008, at 23:48:43
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » okydoky, posted by Quintal on November 2, 2008, at 20:01:25
I don't have a camera but will get hold of one. They definitely had no markings and the box looked entirely different from your picture. For one thing it said Parnate with the generic name under it. I will post a picture as soon as I can.
THanks,
oky
Posted by okydoky on November 17, 2008, at 9:42:42
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » okydoky, posted by Quintal on November 2, 2008, at 20:01:25
> Do you have a camera to upload a shot? Mine just had tranylcypromine on the box, no reference to the Parnate trade name. The tablets I was given had markings on them. Did you look at the old photos I posted? It would be a strange drug to counterfeit, but since you've had a bad reaction to it I think it's reasonable to assume there's something different in this formulation that's irritating your bladder.
>I agree it would be a strange drug to counterfeit, but I guess there are a lot of strange people out there. I sent you a babble. I have a picture but do not know how to put it on the site. There were a couple other questions in the babble too.
Hope all is well,
oky
Posted by desolationrower on November 17, 2008, at 11:06:48
In reply to Re: About my over seas. » Quintal, posted by okydoky on November 17, 2008, at 9:42:42
I purchased Goldensheild Parnate of Australian manufacture. They were red lentil shaped unmarked. If you want any info on that let me know, i have a camera but not hooked up at the moment.
-d/r
Posted by okydoky on November 17, 2008, at 12:42:15
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by desolationrower on November 17, 2008, at 11:06:48
Mine were from Goldenshield also. No markings. The box says distributed in Australia by...
Then it says distributed in NZ by...Hard to know where?
oky
Posted by okydoky on November 21, 2008, at 11:35:30
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by okydoky on November 17, 2008, at 12:42:15
It sounds like I might have received the same formulation as desolationrower. Maybe the formulation is a bit different or some filler or coloring that I could not tolerate because of my bladder disease. I am hoping that is the case as I would like to try it again with a different manufacturer. If anyone wants to see it let me know how to upload the picture of the box and tablet. But it looks like desolationrower described.
oky
Posted by desolationrower on November 21, 2008, at 18:04:28
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by okydoky on November 21, 2008, at 11:35:30
it caused bladder problems for you, or it just did not seem to do anything?
-d/r
Posted by itsme2003 on January 1, 2010, at 13:58:02
In reply to Re: About my over seas., posted by desolationrower on November 21, 2008, at 18:04:28
If it will help clear up any confusion, there are (or were) two types of Goldshield parnate, as was mentioned in some of the above posts.
There is the type for the UK/European market which come in a bottle of 28 tablets. There is also the type for the South Pacific market, which are sold in blister packs, with 10 pills per blister, and 50 pills per box. The color on the boxes looks strange like it is a 3 color process with one of the colors missing, although I think this is the way it was actually designed.
I believe that both are genuine products. I find the formulation for the South Pacific market to be much more effective. Thus, if a person was originally taking a certain dosage of tablets for the UK market and switched over to the ones for the South Pacific market, I believe they would think the pills were too strong or produced strange side effects.
It is possible that the ones for the South Pacific market have been discontinued or reformulated as they seem to be unavailable now, although I cannot say that with certainty.
Posted by inanimate peanut on January 1, 2010, at 19:22:19
In reply to Two types of Goldshield Parnae, posted by itsme2003 on January 1, 2010, at 13:58:02
Do you know how to get ahold of Parnate without a prescription now that the South Seas pharmacies no longer sell it?
Posted by itsme2003 on February 5, 2010, at 7:35:46
In reply to Re: Two types of Goldshield Parnae, posted by inanimate peanut on January 1, 2010, at 19:22:19
Yes I still regularly order it, but costs about $1.50 per pill. I can't give you any more specific information about where to order it in this post without violating the site rules.
This is the end of the thread.
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