![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by Jimmyboy on January 9, 2009, at 15:25:05
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine, posted by sunkistcat79 on January 8, 2009, at 17:26:49
I thought the buprenorphine usually works more through its kappa antagonism pathway ( thus lowering dynorphin and not stopping dopamine in the VTA, etc.) as opposed to its mu aonist actions. Like I said on the alternative board , give Low dose naltrexone a try if you can. I found it to boost endorphin levels alot. So much I had to taper down to a tiny dose. Adding strenuous exercise and I felt like I was high as a kite on opiates. wow.
Posted by sunkistcat79 on January 9, 2009, at 22:17:33
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine » sunkistcat79, posted by Jimmyboy on January 9, 2009, at 15:25:05
I'll be taking my first dose of LDN tonight.
Unlike how I usually am, I have purpousely tried to do very little research. I dont want to "know what to expect" and then be let down or feel a placebo effect for a few days.I'll post if I feel anything....
Posted by bleauberry on January 10, 2009, at 14:14:57
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine, posted by sunkistcat79 on January 9, 2009, at 22:17:33
I've done LDN. It is rarely a miracle cure for anyone, but it does seem to provide some sort of benefit in almost 90% of people who try it...pain, fatigue, immune system, anxiety, mood, sleep, whatever...lots of things that vary from person to person.
I would not at all expect it to have the knockout punch of oxycodone or bup or anything like that. But it could work in an indirect way to smooth things out for you. It will bring on withdrawals from opioids if you are not washed out from them. In any case, most people who see benefits on LDN..which is most people..see them in weeks and months, not days. So don't expect the immediate hit of a pain killer. Whatever improvements you see are likely to creep up on you over time to where you don't notice from day to day you are getting better until you look back and see that you have. Again, weeks and months.
Seems like things were cool with Oxy. Maybe could have just stayed with that? Obvious addiction issues though. People's lives, marriages, and careers have been ruined by the inability to control dosage intake. I guess if someone had the ironclad discipline to take it as a med in non-changing specified doses, as well as partial holidays here and there to refresh any tolerance happening, it might be a way to go.
Posted by sunkistcat79 on January 11, 2009, at 10:34:23
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine, posted by bleauberry on January 10, 2009, at 14:14:57
Warning - this is long and I get a little intense during it. Please don't interpert anything I say as an insult to the writer. I am just frustrated with my situation. I greatly appreciate your comments, advice, and kindness. REALLY!
> I would not at all expect it to have the knockout punch of oxycodone or bup or anything like that. But it could work in an indirect way to smooth things out for you. It will bring on withdrawals from opioids if you are not washed out from them. In any case, most people who see benefits on LDN..which is most people..see them in weeks and months, not days. So don't expect the immediate hit of a pain killer. Whatever improvements you see are likely to creep up on you over time to where you don't notice from day to day you are getting better until you look back and see that you have. Again, weeks and months. "
Unfortunately, if LDN does work a little bit after weeks and months, it might get me from spending my life in bed and at the computer to....i don't know...going to the store some more and maybe tolerating hanging out with a few people (if anyone even wants to). I am in DIRE need of a major chemical change.
It's bull...if I was suffering this way due to some insulin problem, I'd get what I needed and wouldn't have to bribe and convince doctors/people. Someone who takes insulin is "addicted" to it, right?
The weird thing with oxycodone is that after stopping Bupe (for AT LEAST a month - and much longer) I tried taking oxycodone on a few occasions. I took up to 15 mg and it basically had NO effect whatsoever. This tells me that my body "remembered" from when I first took it (possibly as a result from having an extremely low level of endorphins?) and now requires much more to have any effect whatsoever.
Anyone have any ideas why between 5 and 15 mg of oxoycodone (with apap) would have no effect on me (with at the VERY least a month after discontinuing all opiates)?
If I'm on LDN and try oxycodone, what could happen? How long would I need to be off of LDN to have an effect from oxycodone?
> Seems like things were cool with Oxy. Maybe could have just stayed with that? Obvious addiction issues though. People's lives, marriages, and careers have been ruined by the inability to control dosage intake."
The "funny" thing is, that my life, relationship and career are, at present, completely nonexistent (ruined). It seems that if I took oxycodone, at the very worst, I would feel good sometimes and have no life, relationship or career. Please don't take this as being rude to you. I am just annoyed by my situation - which you are only just offering advice and kindness.
"I guess if someone had the ironclad discipline to take it as a med in non-changing specified doses, as well as partial holidays here and there to refresh any tolerance happening, it might be a way to go. "
I'M THAT PERSON! I decided in 8th grade that I had an addictive personality and that I needed to put some controls on myself. I decided to not smoke cigarettes or drink when I was sad. I have smoked 1 puff of a cigarette in my life. And prior to 2 years ago, I haven't drunk when I was sad (and I have never passed out, had an hangover, thrown up from drinking - and there have been many times where I have gone months without having a drink or thinking either way about it). I finally started to try to drink when sad, but it's usually about a week between deciding I should start drinking and when I remember to get around to it. I bought a six pack a few days ago and still have half of it left.
Also, in 8th grade, I thought I was eating too much, so, to control my eating (for other reasons as well) I stopped eating meat for about 10 years. A few years ago, someone told me gluten can lead to depression so, THE VERY NEXT DAY (and for the next 2 years - except for a few Challenges) I discontinued eating ANY form of gluten (essentially the only food I ate outside of what I made in my home was salads - with my own dressing). During this time, I had a blood test which suggested I was allergic to dairy and eggs. So, for almost a year, I ate NO TRACE of dairy, eggs, or gluten. This takes a huge amount of self control (esp. for someone like myself who eats for comfort when sad - which is very very often).Similarly, I think I was very controlled about my oxycodone dose. I only raised it when absolutely necessary - I was actually scared to raise the dose. I even thought about the concept of taking a "holiday" to keep tolerance in check.
However, I think that whatever caused my "tolerance" to bupe would cause a similar effect with oxycodone (maybe why oxycodone has had no effect on me recently?). Remember, I had the SAME effect from bupe as I did with oxycodone (except for about 45 minutes of feeling sleepy/high on oxycodone).
I very much want to try bupe again, but if i remember correctly, you need to be in withdrawl already in order for the bupe to not make you sick. Also, I have a lot of bupe. but it's over a year old.
I'm afraid to ask my doctor (the psychiatrist who originally prescribed me bupe after being on oxycodone for a week) because he might say no and then i feel I have no where to turn to...and I'm very very depressed and unmotivated already.
Again. THANK YOU for your comments...and anyone else.
Sorry this was so long and so "rambly".
I guess I have *some* motivation - enough to keep writing here.I just KNOW how I felt when the opioids worked - and it's the way functioning/happy people feel most ever day. I NEED that!!! And if I sound like an addict, well, that's because what causes many addicts to be so is some chemical deficiency of some kind. If we all had the chemicals we needed - well....you know the rest of that sentence.
Posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 16:15:47
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine, posted by sunkistcat79 on January 11, 2009, at 10:34:23
What dosage of LDN are you taking?
I also take LDN.Sissy35
Posted by sunkistcat79 on January 13, 2009, at 17:14:55
In reply to Re: Buprenorphine » sunkistcat79, posted by sissy35 on January 13, 2009, at 16:15:47
> What dosage of LDN are you taking?
> I also take LDN.
>
> Sissy35I started 5 days ago and take 3 mg but haven't noticed any sort of difference.
I do want to report, however, that I immersed in a very cold water tank the other night and I started giggling and singing to myself - for no other reason. No drugs/alcohol involved. And I have barely even cracked a smile in over a month.
A cold shower didn't have the same results, unfortunately. This was at a spa (I snuck in) and used the hot tub and cold water tank - and I went back and forth but after a little while, I just wanted to stay in the cold.
Posted by Neal on January 14, 2009, at 19:32:30
In reply to BUPRENORPHINE, posted by sunkistcat79 on January 7, 2009, at 15:04:01
Sunkistcat - you don't mention what dosages you were taking of the Bupe./day?
For me Bupe was a help IN ADDITION TO the ADs. Bupe alone will not work for most, I suspect. For many, it will not work at all. It's a lot of trouble for most people to get, so don't get your hopes up.
Posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 14, 2009, at 23:56:44
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Neal on January 14, 2009, at 19:32:30
> Sunkistcat - you don't mention what dosages you were taking of the Bupe./day?
I was making it up as I went along, but very carefully and with thought (and with the background support of my psychiatrist - as there's no precedent for taking it in my situation and he, rightly, trusted me as I know my body and response better than he does). I think I was up to 24 mg/day.
> For me Bupe was a help IN ADDITION TO the ADs. Bupe alone will not work for most, I suspect. For many, it will not work at all. It's a lot of trouble for most people to get, so don't get your hopes up.
>
Well, that is what I"m looking at actually. The AD's never never did anything good for me (except take away my sex drive when I had just been dumped - that was good). However, I started the AD's again while on bupe and it had no effect whatsoever.
The bupe. worked for about a month, perfectly...and then it slowly stopped. HEnce, my theory that my endorphin level is naturally so absurdely low that my optimal bupe dose is much higher than the norm.
So it DID work for me and I believe it still can. Anyways, I have a bottle left over from when I weaned off. And I WILL get more if I need it.
Posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 15, 2009, at 11:11:15
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Neal on January 14, 2009, at 19:32:30
> Sunkistcat - you don't mention what dosages you were taking of the Bupe./day?
I was making it up as I went along, but very carefully and with thought (and with the background support of my psychiatrist - as there's no precedent for taking it in my situation and he, rightly, trusted me as I know my body and response better than he does). I think I was up to 24 mg/day.
> For me Bupe was a help IN ADDITION TO the ADs. Bupe alone will not work for most, I suspect. For many, it will not work at all. It's a lot of trouble for most people to get, so don't get your hopes up.
>
Well, that is what I"m looking at actually. The AD's never never did anything good for me (except take away my sex drive when I had just been dumped - that was good). However, I started the AD's again while on bupe and it had no effect whatsoever.
The bupe. worked for about a month, perfectly...and then it slowly stopped. HEnce, my theory that my endorphin level is naturally so absurdely low that my optimal bupe dose is much higher than the norm.
So it DID work for me and I believe it still can. Anyways, I have a bottle left over from when I weaned off. And I WILL get more if I need it.
Posted by Neal on January 16, 2009, at 12:25:09
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 15, 2009, at 11:11:15
Sunkist - can you confirm 24mg/day. What was the actual form of bupe? Subutex? Suboxone?
Posted by Sigismund on January 16, 2009, at 14:35:07
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE » Sunkistcat79, posted by Neal on January 16, 2009, at 12:25:09
Yes, I was wondering about that.
I don't know anything much about bupe but isn't the response in a horseshoe curve?
And is 24mg/d at the top of the horseshoe?
It sounded like a lot, perhaps more than the optimal dose?
Posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 17, 2009, at 15:13:11
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE » Neal, posted by Sigismund on January 16, 2009, at 14:35:07
> Yes, I was wondering about that.
>
> I don't know anything much about bupe but isn't the response in a horseshoe curve?
>
> And is 24mg/d at the top of the horseshoe?
>
> It sounded like a lot, perhaps more than the optimal dose?After going through old records, I discovered that I went up slowly from the basic starting dose to 8 mg 3x/day. I only went up in response to the benefits starting to decline. Of couse, this was also when I started to go off the lexapro and wellbutrin. (but I restarted those drugs again with no benefit).
And since then, I have taken oxycodone a few separate times (up to 15 mg) and never felt anything....This makes me think my body is remembering the tolerance and that is why I had no effect whatsoever when I took oxycodone.
Posted by Sigismund on January 17, 2009, at 19:20:23
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 17, 2009, at 15:13:11
>And since then, I have taken oxycodone a few separate times (up to 15 mg) and never felt anything....This makes me think my body is remembering the tolerance and that is why I had no effect whatsoever when I took oxycodone.
So that is without an opiate tolerance?
If that is so it sounds very odd.
I had an opiate tolerance a while ago now and I feel sure that 5mg oxycodone instant release would be noticeable for me.
I might want more, of course, but that is not what you mean.I don't understand it.
Posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 19, 2009, at 15:45:33
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Sigismund on January 17, 2009, at 19:20:23
> So that is without an opiate tolerance?
>
> I had an opiate tolerance a while ago now and I feel sure that 5mg oxycodone instant release would be noticeable for me.
>
> I don't understand it.I havent' experimented in a while now (tried oxycodone) but whenever I experimented, it had been at least a month since I had any opioids. Althgouh, now I remember that when I took 15 mg, I had tried 5 and then 10 a day or so previous....but i still had no effect.
And, I know alcohol works on a much different system, but I am EXTREMELY "lightweight" when it comes to alcohol. I have always been that way. so it would seem to mean even MORE that the oxycodone isn't effecting me
I really need to try some more again and see what happens. If NOTHING is still happening...then that DEFINITELY means something. And if something does happen, it's bound to be the same positve effects as before - and ANYTHING ANYTHING ANYTHING would be better than what i am dealing with right now (not to compare my situation with anyone else's with addiction....
I am in a VERY bad place right now. And i know that, if it even does get better, it will take years and i'll just end up back feeling this way eventually. I know this becuase I have been like this for almost 2 decades and I'm not even THIRTY yet.
And because I have tried every type of positive thinking there is....and nothing ever ever works.So thank you in advance for not telling me to just wait it out or think positive or that everything will be okay. (people tell me that all the time and it do not like it).
I took percocet for less than 3 weeks and it has been the only thing that has allowed me to FUNCTION. And I NEED SOME MORE TO SURVIVE.
Posted by Neal on January 19, 2009, at 19:09:11
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 19, 2009, at 15:45:33
I'm not a buprenophine expert, but in my experience 24mg/day is a hefty dose. Perhaps it's not the med for Sunkistcat, it only works for some, everyone's different. Or S. could try staying off the opiods for a while and try again later.
Posted by Neal on January 19, 2009, at 19:16:57
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 19, 2009, at 15:45:33
BTW, everyone should know that any form of buprenorphine and any Benzo should not be taken together, or only with the greatest of care.
Posted by Sunkistcat79 on January 19, 2009, at 21:30:10
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Neal on January 19, 2009, at 19:09:11
> I'm not a buprenophine expert, but in my experience 24mg/day is a hefty dose. Perhaps it's not the med for Sunkistcat, it only works for some, everyone's different. Or S. could try staying off the opiods for a while and try again later.
I only went up in dose when the effects started to wear off after a few weeks. I certainly didn't start at that dose.And, anyways, i am taking it purely for depression - and there is no precedent set for dosage for my needs. I believe my endorphin level is much much lower than the average and that might point to needing more opioids.
I didn't take any opioids for a while and then would try them...and still nothing. I think I went into some more detail in a few other posts....if you're curious.
Posted by bulldog2 on January 24, 2009, at 14:15:41
In reply to BUPRENORPHINE, posted by sunkistcat79 on January 7, 2009, at 15:04:01
> Hello,
>
> In the midst of a severe depression, I was prescribed oxycodone for pain. The results were an almost complete lifting of an almost 2 decade depression - I was left alert, calm, stable, happy...NOT manic, drugged, or "high" feeling.
>
> I read every article I could find on opioids and depression (and comprehended the academic/neuropsychological texts better than I have ever remembered comprehending anything) and started taking Burprenorphine (subutex). At the time, I had also been taking wellbutrin and lexapro. At first, the bupe. offer the same exact results as the oxycodone.
>
> So, I began my slow tapers from wellbutrin and lexapro. All my problems began to slowly return... along with other typical lexapro withdrawals symptoms (brain zaps, nausea).
>
> However, after the withdrawals should have stopped, the Depression was back in full force.
>
> So, after a while, I went back on the wellbutrin and lexapro, thinking I needed to replicate the exact circumstances of when the opioids worked.
>
> Nothing.
>
> After months and months, I finally weaned off the subutex.
>
> Again, I find myself in a place of total despair. I can't help thinking about the NORMAL way I felt when the BUPRENORPHINE worked and that I need that feeling back (I'm not looking to get high...never was...never did.). I took oxycodone for 2 weeks before being switched to subutex (so I did not have the typical experience of an "addict").
>
> I know people wrote on here about taking bupe. for years and it working wonders. It worked wonders for me....but only about a month.
> And for those of you who don't know, they prescribe bupe. to people trying to stop being addicted to opioids for 2 basic reasons:
> 1. There is a ceiling effect - you don't build up a tolerance and need more and more for the same effect.
> 2. It does not provide you with a "high" feeling
>
> I just put in my order to LDN(naloxene sp?)...but past that....
> HELP?!?!
> Does anyone have any idea why the bupe. stopped working??
> I plan on trying it again because I believe that this is the chemical my body needs in order to function.
>
> HELP!
>
> (I been on over a dozen regualar psychotropics and I could have bought a small country with the amount of money I spent on supplements. On a scale of 1-100, the greatest relief I ever got on a psychotropic or a supplement was a 9. On buprenorphine...99)
>
> thanks,
> sunkistcat79Sounds like you might do well on oxycodone. The irony is doctors routinely prescribed narcotics for depression before the advent of modern ads.
Posted by jerrypharmstudent on January 24, 2009, at 15:52:32
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by bulldog2 on January 24, 2009, at 14:15:41
> > Hello,
> >
> > In the midst of a severe depression, I was prescribed oxycodone for pain. The results were an almost complete lifting of an almost 2 decade depression - I was left alert, calm, stable, happy...NOT manic, drugged, or "high" feeling.
> >
> > I read every article I could find on opioids and depression (and comprehended the academic/neuropsychological texts better than I have ever remembered comprehending anything) and started taking Burprenorphine (subutex). At the time, I had also been taking wellbutrin and lexapro. At first, the bupe. offer the same exact results as the oxycodone.
> >
> > So, I began my slow tapers from wellbutrin and lexapro. All my problems began to slowly return... along with other typical lexapro withdrawals symptoms (brain zaps, nausea).
> >
> > However, after the withdrawals should have stopped, the Depression was back in full force.
> >
> > So, after a while, I went back on the wellbutrin and lexapro, thinking I needed to replicate the exact circumstances of when the opioids worked.
> >
> > Nothing.
> >
> > After months and months, I finally weaned off the subutex.
> >
> > Again, I find myself in a place of total despair. I can't help thinking about the NORMAL way I felt when the BUPRENORPHINE worked and that I need that feeling back (I'm not looking to get high...never was...never did.). I took oxycodone for 2 weeks before being switched to subutex (so I did not have the typical experience of an "addict").
> >
> > I know people wrote on here about taking bupe. for years and it working wonders. It worked wonders for me....but only about a month.
> > And for those of you who don't know, they prescribe bupe. to people trying to stop being addicted to opioids for 2 basic reasons:
> > 1. There is a ceiling effect - you don't build up a tolerance and need more and more for the same effect.
> > 2. It does not provide you with a "high" feeling
> >
> > I just put in my order to LDN(naloxene sp?)...but past that....
> > HELP?!?!
> > Does anyone have any idea why the bupe. stopped working??
> > I plan on trying it again because I believe that this is the chemical my body needs in order to function.
> >
> > HELP!
> >
> > (I been on over a dozen regualar psychotropics and I could have bought a small country with the amount of money I spent on supplements. On a scale of 1-100, the greatest relief I ever got on a psychotropic or a supplement was a 9. On buprenorphine...99)
> >
> > thanks,
> > sunkistcat79
>
> Sounds like you might do well on oxycodone. The irony is doctors routinely prescribed narcotics for depression before the advent of modern ads.My docs at the U of MN prescribed me hydrocodone in addition to my other meds. Hard to find a doc who will use opiates.
Posted by jim45 on February 7, 2009, at 14:09:14
In reply to BUPRENORPHINE, posted by sunkistcat79 on January 7, 2009, at 15:04:01
Dear,dear sunkistcat.
Man do I understand and have lived your problem.
I am so surprised that more people don't know about using suboxone instead of subutex.
For that matter, for ANY opiate, simply obtaining some naloxone,an antagonist, and taking a LOW dose with the opiate will stop or greatly reduce tolerance and dependence.
I tried it after reading the research about combining opiate agonists and antagonist online. I was ordering some dihydrocodeine from an internet pharmacy, of course developed a tolerance and could only use it every 2-3 days. I ordered and started using a few mg of naloxone w/the dihydro. IT WORKED!!
Then I got a nasty gram from the FDA about importing controlled substances and I stopped. The next time I went to my Psych Doc, I told him about my experiment and results. He was a great cutting-edge Doc and he'd just heard of the above at a conference for Psych Docs.
At first he gave me SUBUTEX - pure buprenorphine. Guess what though,like yourself and others,I quickly developed a tolerance and had to space it apart a few days too. Then I told the Doc I wanted to try the SUBOXONE - bupe+naloxone - and it worked great. Took it for a couple of years,and when I had to stop because my Doc lost his license, I had very little withdrawal problems. Funny/crampy legs and some strange thoughts.
I wish more folks would try the agonist/antagonist combo. I expect to see it being done with pain meds in a few years.
Best wishes whatever you do sunkistcat. Man, can I relate to your misery :( .
Posted by Jimmyboy on February 9, 2009, at 15:43:16
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by jim45 on February 7, 2009, at 14:09:14
I think the pharma companies are about to roll out those agonist/antagonist combo's real soon. I saw an article on another website the other day. were you taking naloxone or naltrexone? i was under teh impression that naloxone only worked as an antagonist when it was taken IV ( hence why they add it to suboxone - to prevent people from abusing it by IV) whereas naltrexone was orally available.
I have considered what you said - mixing a small amt of naltrexone w/ a small amt. of weak opiate like codeine and hoped that would take care of the tolerance/addiction issue. - Glad to hear its worked for someone.
Posted by Jim45 on February 9, 2009, at 22:04:33
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Jimmyboy on February 9, 2009, at 15:43:16
Hi Jimmyboy.
I've got the same name :) .
Re your question, it was naloxone I'd ordered and was using with the opiates I'd gotten online.
If you're asking about the Suboxone, I THINK it was naloxone and it was already mixed into the tablet. It was an 8 mg tablet with 2 mg of naloxone(?). That 2 mg number might be a good dose for you to experiment with if you choose to try naloxone.
I hope you're right about the pharma companies and the combo. SO many pain patients quickly build up tolerances and often become dependent on pure opiate pain meds. That has made pharmas a lot of money. I hope they'll do the right thing but know they MIGHT resist/delay it.
I think a clue that you need opiates is if they wake you up, and if you've had regular digestive problems that opiates stop. There are other symptoms associated with endorphin deficiencies, but I can't recall them.
I'm pasting two weblinks - one about the combo phenomena and the other about two studies of disease-free and drug-free suicide (obviously depressed) victims brains. They found up to HUNDREDS more endorphin receptors versus normal brains. Only opiates would've helped them feel better. Unfortunately thanks to the Drug War and ignorance they're hard for people other than those in serious pain to get.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/9740/regionselectincreases.html
Good luck Jimmyboy.
Jim
Posted by Jimmyboy on February 10, 2009, at 15:31:55
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Jim45 on February 9, 2009, at 22:04:33
hey Jim,
Well, first off you don't have to convince me of the theraputic effect of low dose opiates on many many people that fall under the umbrella of "mood disorders". I am there with you.
I think low dose naltrexone at night to combat Mu opiate receptor desensitization ( aka tolerance) is going to be key if anyone tries to use opiates in a theraputic manner. Obviously if the dose escalates and you become a junkie you have a whole 'nother problem compunded on top of the original.
Secondly issue is addictiveness. I think a low dose of a kappa opiate agonist could be key here. kappa agonists lead to highly "un-addictive behavior" The key here would be to keep this very small ( kappa agonists in higher doses are hallucinogenic and dysphoric) - but I think a small amount of kappa agonism could curb a lot of the addictiveness involved with opiates.
anyway, just my 2 cents on the issue.
Posted by Jim45 on February 10, 2009, at 17:45:35
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Jimmyboy on February 10, 2009, at 15:31:55
Jimmyboy!
Thanks. Sorry to overdo the reply. Didn't know you were that knowledgeable.
So many folks out there are unintentionally uninformed.
I'll probably irk a few folks here on Dr. Bobs PyschoBabble because I write as if the reader doesn't know much (in case they don't).
Later...............
Jim
Posted by Jimmyboy on February 10, 2009, at 20:51:03
In reply to Re: BUPRENORPHINE, posted by Jim45 on February 10, 2009, at 17:45:35
Not overdone at all my friend.. I think there are people of all levels of knowledge around here. I'm no expert myself but I think that opiates are an area that has been ignored for treatment of mood disorders. Are there major problems with using them - hell yeah - as I stated before. But there are major problems with about every other AD out there. This board is the perfect testament of that.
Lowering inflammatory cytokines while getting more endorphins is IMO a much better way to go about beating depression etc. than random polypharmacy by a guy you see for 15 mins a month.
This is the end of the thread.
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