![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by JadeKelly on November 14, 2008, at 15:46:34
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
Hi Bulldog, don't have the time to read other posts, however, here is MHO:
Drop 4,5,& 6. I get tired of all that. Were not talking about a bad mood here. Were, IMHO, not going to snap out out of it. I'm not sure how educated you are or aren't re: mechanism of action of different A/D's, I sure can't help there. All I know is, if I hadn't asked my PDoc to prescribe MAOI, I KNOW he would'nt have prescribed it. MAOI's work for me. Only ones. So even if it stops working, I know they can, and I'll look for augmentation. This is after almost 3 years of this he*l. Fairly sudden atyp/tr depression. I feel your frustration. Can you pick up a book by a reputable author that is just based on the drugs themselves and how they work, and the application to various symtom combos? NOT a therapy book, a scientific book that you or I could understand? Then maybe compare that to experiences here? The value of this sight to me, is a lot of people think outside the box, where a conservative PDoc (most, I feel), wouldn't even mention. Now, if YOU bring it up thats different. In fact, why don't I have such a book??!!! Another post????haha
Good Luck, don't give up!
~Jade
Posted by kenny7 on November 14, 2008, at 16:25:08
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 14:40:53
Agreed. SSRI's are practically useless. I have taken at least 15 of them...If and SSRI gave me remission, I wouldn't even be complaining about a psychiatric illness. That bothers me more than your list...And the fact that some people (the ex. I am thinking of was not on this sight) make up their own damn pharmaceuticals on the basis of the proposed actions of some. Like I need serotonin, so Zoloft I need Gaba...so Clonaz....Gabapentin!
Posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 13, 2008, at 20:16:18
> I think people go from one extreme to the other.
>
> Sure, I believe meds are toxic. That doesn't mean I think that doctors are out to get you etc. etc.
>
> I think people just want to believe one extreme cause it makes things nice and easy to understand. Life is always somewhere in between.
>
> I just personally think they haven't invented something that is safe (or terrably effective for that matter).
>
>
>
> Most of the BP medications are neurotoxic. I don't mean that as an undeducated blanket statement but it is essentially true.
>
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> Low does lithium is probably the safest BP med and even it has its toxicities.
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> BP II is basically a mitochondrial disorder IMHO,
>
> How about turmeric and omega-3? Turmeric is a stronger antidepressant that SSRI's in mouse studies and it is powerfully neruoprotective / neurotrophic. Agents like this are showing promise in a number of brain diseases. Its time to give your brain what it needs. That doesn't mean go all out and shovel down piles of vitamins and amino acids, it means judiciously picking substances which have documented effects in problems like this.
>
> Bipolar and BPII are some of the poorest treated mood disorders in my opinion. Most people spend way to much time in the depressive phase and there are significant and lasting impairments in cognition etc which often remain inadressed.
>
> Treating a mood disorder is a puzzle. Perhaps medicaitons are a piece of that puzzle for you. But, they are still just one tool in the trunk. I think that a full recovery will necessarily take more than medications. The people who recover fully are the ones that attack it from every possible angle.
>
>
> LinkadgeUnfortunately while alternative health appears
the most logical choice (give the body what it needs) after almost 40 years of trying almost every modality (diet,exercise,accupuncture,chinese medicine etc) I have been very disappointed with the results. This field is poorly regulated with dozens of modalties available. Claims are often
made with no scientific validation. So if there are things that work it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I have read that mouse studies are more often wrong than right. Their physiology is different enough from us that what works for them very often does not work for us.
While healthy living is certainly a good adjunct to getting better right now alternative health needs to get organzized and weed out what works from what is often quackery. I've probaly spent thousands on ineffective treatments.As to toxic meds that is not just psychotropic meds but allopathic western medicine period. Most meds are toxic to some degree and rarely cure but address symtpoms. But i guess sometimes that's the best we have.
I remember years ago reading a book by Patty Duke about her battle with bp. Life was spiraling out of control. Drinking binges,delusions,one night stands, tamper tantrums and her life just falling apart. She started lithium and the storm abated. Now the med may be toxic and eventually destroy her mind but I guess one has to weigh the options. But for her it was a miracle.
Hopefully one day we will know what the mind needs. Right now we really just don't know what the mind needs. To many claims and not enough hard core evidence.
I personally believe that some brains have faulty wiring from birth just like any organ can be defective. I don't know that we ever be able to cure people like that with the right supplements.
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 6:27:01
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
>after almost 40 years of trying almost every >modality (diet,exercise,accupuncture,chinese >medicine etc) I have been very disappointed with >the results.
Well, you can throw prescription drugs into that list else we wouldn't be having this conversation. Nevertheless, there are tons of ways to try highly regulated alternative substances. You can buy things like taurine in regulated quanitities. I don't think "diet" alone can help bipolar disorder nor do I think "acupuncture" or "chinese medicine" can either. Chinese medicine consists of a handful of monoamine oxidase inhibiting adaptogens, which are certainly not mood stabilizers.
There are a number of alternative agents which I do think can help bipolar disorder though.
>This field is poorly regulated with dozens of >modalties available. Claims are often
>made with no scientific validation.Thats why you need to do your own research and use the agents for which there is evidence efficacy.
>So if there are things that work it is like >looking for a needle in a haystack.
Not necessarily. The manic phase is associated with elevated calcium and PKC metabolism for isntance. Calming mania often responds to agents that stabilize calcium function in neuronal membranes. There are many studies that show taurine for instance can stabilize calcium currents while exerting a powerful antioxidant effect. Omega-3 fatty acids inhibit protein kinase C function and GSK-3b function just like ithium and valproate. Omega-3 also upregulates the neuroprotective protin BCL-2 just like lithium and valproate.
>I have read that mouse studies are more often >wrong than right.
Most of the psychoactive drugs we ingest are the product of rodent screening processes. Sure they can be wrong, but they do indicate potential benefit.
>While healthy living is certainly a good adjunct >to getting better right now alternative health >needs to get organzized
I'd say conventional medicine needs to get organized too.
>and weed out what works from what is often >quackery. I've probaly spent thousands on >ineffective treatments.
I have spend 10's of thousands on innefective prescriptions (had I been the one paying for them). So whats your point?
>As to toxic meds that is not just psychotropic >meds but allopathic western medicine period. >Most meds are toxic to some degree and rarely >cure but address symtpoms. But i guess sometimes >that's the best we have.
No, its not necessarily the best we have, its the best that can be patented. Its the best that money can be made from.
If anthocyannins from blueberries could be patented, they would. If turmeric could be patented it would. If omega-3 could be patented, it would, if melatonin could be patented, it would.
>I remember years ago reading a book by Patty >Duke about her battle with bp. Life was >spiraling out of control. Drinking >binges,delusions,one night stands, tamper >tantrums and her life just falling apart. She >started lithium and the storm abated. Now the >med may be toxic and eventually destroy her mind >but I guess one has to weigh the options.
One can't well weight the options if one doesn't undestand their options or know a little bit about their disorder. I am not saying that mood sbailizers don't work (for some people). I am saying that for many bipolars they don't work well enough and have unnaceptable side effects.
Agnets like omega-3 and taurine are being studied at Harvard for their mood stabilizing effects. The researhcers in these studies note similarities in the biochemical targets of these agents and other mood stabilizers. While agents like this may not replace conventional mood stabilizers for some individuals, well controlled studies indicate that even severe bipolars can significantly reduce their need for medications by adding agents like this to their regiment.
Studies by Dr. Andrew Stoll concluded that such medication changes like this can help many bipolars live in a more well state.
>But for her it was a miracle.
>Hopefully one day we will know what the mind >needs. Right now we really just don't know what >the mind needs. To many claims and not enough >hard core evidence.There is some very good evidence and research of what is going wrong in the bipolar brain. I would urge you to read some of the conclusions and findings of Dr. Manjii, a molecular biologics at the forefront of research on bipolar and the biochemical targets of mood stabilizing medications.
>I personally believe that some brains have >faulty wiring from birth just like any organ can >be defective. I don't know that we ever be able >to cure people like that with the right >supplements.I partially agree with you. But then why would you want to down a handful of lamotrigine and olanzapine (or other drugs which geneally supress the brains ability to establish new connections) when you can feed it with agents capable improving the conenctivity and functionality of the brain.
Note: I do put lithium on this list since it has some neurotrophic capacity, but most other BP medications do not.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 6:46:15
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I really don't care which path you choose.
I just personally cannot follow my mother's path. I want a better future than she had.
She was diagnosed as bipolar at my age and did the whole conventional medication thing.
Sure her disorder responded to psychiatric medications during the acute crisis, but what happens after that?
Its been on and off this or that mood stabilizer, antipsychotic, antidepressant etc. She has gone steadily downhill and now a once highly intellegent university graduate has only a fraction of her faculties left.
She has a number of diseases (liver, kidney, diabeties) now as a result of the use of psychiatric medications and her moods are not well controlled.
I started on psychiatric meds before university and saw my grades plummit. I went from A's to D's because the mood stabilizers (especially antipsychotics) made it impossible to concentrate or study. I was hospitalized 3 times for a month or more, during which I was put on combinations of 5-10 medications and told I would never be able to come off them.
Anyhow, to make a long story short, I slowly came off the drugs half way through university and started to eat well, exercise, and started to experiment with alternatives.
My grades went up to A's in third and 4th year univesity (which is very rare for people who don't do well in 1st and 2nd year) and I graduated and am now on my way to be a math/physics teacher.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if I belived the doctors at the hospital, I would still be on 5-10 medications, I would have dropped out of university and my brain would still be sustaining who knows what form of neurological insults.
Thats my story, take from it what you will.
Don't get me wrong. My moods are not always %100, but I am certainly doing better overall off meds.
Linkadge
Posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2008, at 8:36:33
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 6:46:15
> Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I really don't care which path you choose.
>
> I just personally cannot follow my mother's path. I want a better future than she had.
>
> She was diagnosed as bipolar at my age and did the whole conventional medication thing.
>
> Sure her disorder responded to psychiatric medications during the acute crisis, but what happens after that?
>
> Its been on and off this or that mood stabilizer, antipsychotic, antidepressant etc. She has gone steadily downhill and now a once highly intellegent university graduate has only a fraction of her faculties left.
>
> She has a number of diseases (liver, kidney, diabeties) now as a result of the use of psychiatric medications and her moods are not well controlled.
>
> I started on psychiatric meds before university and saw my grades plummit. I went from A's to D's because the mood stabilizers (especially antipsychotics) made it impossible to concentrate or study. I was hospitalized 3 times for a month or more, during which I was put on combinations of 5-10 medications and told I would never be able to come off them.
>
> Anyhow, to make a long story short, I slowly came off the drugs half way through university and started to eat well, exercise, and started to experiment with alternatives.
>
> My grades went up to A's in third and 4th year univesity (which is very rare for people who don't do well in 1st and 2nd year) and I graduated and am now on my way to be a math/physics teacher.
>
> I guess what I am trying to say is that if I belived the doctors at the hospital, I would still be on 5-10 medications, I would have dropped out of university and my brain would still be sustaining who knows what form of neurological insults.
>
> Thats my story, take from it what you will.
>
> Don't get me wrong. My moods are not always %100, but I am certainly doing better overall off meds.
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>>
> Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day I really don't care which path you chooseI wouldn't expect you to. Why even bring that up.
We're discussing an issue about toxic meds.Again we have to remember that what worked for you may not work for others.You were one of the lucky ones that found a natural formula that worked. Others have not been that fortunate.
>
> By the way nac and folate may be a good adjunct to antisezure meds and also prevent cogntive decline. Nac has is a powerful antioxidant and may protect the liver and kidneys. So one may get the best of both worlds.
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Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 9:50:18
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 16, 2008, at 8:36:33
>Again we have to remember that what worked for >you may not work for others.You were one of the >lucky ones that found a natural formula that >worked. Others have not been that fortunate.
I don't beleive there is anything inherently wrong with taking medications. I just think that people need to keep an open mind. There are still many misconceptions today. Even still these days, I hear people talking about how they have a defective serotonin gene, and how the SSRI's fix the problem. Doctors are actually still telling their patients this, even though such claims are completely unfounded.
There is too much faith (IMHO) in what doctors want to present as 'established' facts about mood disorders. In many ways we are finding out things that are completely contradictory to conventional belifes.
The 'serotonin hypothesis' of depression for isntance, grows weaker with every year of research. I think that some people believe that the only true cures can come from doctors. Faith in the efficacy of a treatment probably accounts for more than half of a treatment's efficacy. For most people, alternatives probably don't work because of a lack of faith in their efficacy.
I started to loose faith in the validiy of modern psychiatry as I leared about just how biased much of the data on conventional antidepressants is. In many ways, the drugs stopped working as I began to loose that faith.
In some ways it was a painful paradigm shift that I did not want to embrace. But the more I sift through research the more I learn that concerns me about what people are lead to believe.
I mean, if you want to talk lack of research, just look at some of the drug coctails that patients are given. Patients are given meds for bipolar like topomax, gapapentin, dispite the fact that there is virtually no data to support their use in bipolar. Numerous untested coctails are routinely used are used in mood disorders. Many studies indiciate that combinations of certain drugs increase the nerotoxicity. I remember reading that an SSRI / depakote combination created a synergistic increase in oxadative stress and free radical production compared to either alone.
In mood disorders there are a nummber of findings about things like excessive neurogenic inflamation, mitochondrial dysfunction, glial pathologies, HPA axis imballences, electrolyte imbalances, oxadative stress, significantly depleated anxioxidant systems etc. Many of these things are probably better adressed through dietary and lifestyle manipulations.
Many medication depleat nutirents that heal. Some increase oxidative stress, some are cause mitochondrial dysfunction, some are neuroendocrine disruptorrs, some worsen HPA axis imballances.
Linkadge
Posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 16:09:24
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 9:50:18
Link, I have not been at this site long, but I've noticed 99.9% of your post's are in this section.
With a constant that rings loud, anti-meds.I have no problem with that and applaud you for the time/research you've invested towards recovery.
My sole purpose for frequenting this site is... support, education, and sharing positive experiences.
I've peeked at the other board - Psycho-Babble Alternative expecting to see it littered with post's from you, but no, I was surprised to see very little??
I asked myself why someone with a truly negative dislike for pharmaceuticals apparently feels a need to rid the world of all "presciptions"? Almost crusade like??
It's not for me to ask one's intentions, but I certainly can express "my" desire for positive, progressive input. Sure, we all have our extreme down time and submit negative post's that reflect our feelings. But when the pattern is constant, I can't help but feel sorry for the poster.
Best, Rick
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 20:28:00
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » linkadge, posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 16:09:24
Um, where did I say not to take medications?
I still periodically take medications and have no problem with that.
I think your pro-med attitude is probably unfairly interpreting my ballanced view of the beneifits and risks of psychiatric medications.
I am not trying to rid the world of psychiatric medications. I just like to discus some of the false beliefs regarding their safety and/or efficacy.
If you are coming here to look specifically for pro-med discussions you are not really doing yourself any long term justice IMHO.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 20:31:03
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » linkadge, posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 16:09:24
If you want to specifically attack some assertion or comment that I have made in my posts go ahead, but please don't arrive at erronious conclusions about that I am saying based on the fact that you are hearing things you may not want to consider.
Linkadge
Posted by ricker on November 16, 2008, at 20:52:33
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » ricker, posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 20:31:03
> If you want to specifically attack some assertion or comment that I have made in my posts go ahead, but please don't arrive at erronious conclusions about that I am saying based on the fact that you are hearing things you may not want to consider.
Heavens no, one per board is plenty!! :)
Posted by elanor roosevelt on November 16, 2008, at 22:48:14
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 15, 2008, at 9:27:50
odd but i have always been encouraged by the others on this board to hang in with my drug trials
the meds are different with each of us
maybe we need two columns one for "it worked for me" and one for "not"there is a sense of futility here because so many of us are treatment resistant
that said, I just spent a month studying the alternative board and i don't know which end is up
if you find a board that you feel is more helpful please babblemail me and let me know
good luck
Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2008, at 7:11:57
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by elanor roosevelt on November 16, 2008, at 22:48:14
Theres no point in encouraging someobody under false pretences.
While you may be making them feel better now, but what happens down the road?
I had the head psychiatrist in the Grand River hosptical here in Waterloo Ontario (Dr. Powers) (while I was an inpatient), tell me that for the most part antidepressant medications are placebos.
She's about the only psychiarist I respected since she at least told it how it is.
Linkadge
Posted by ricker on November 17, 2008, at 13:12:31
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by linkadge on November 17, 2008, at 7:11:57
> I had the head psychiatrist in the Grand River hosptical here in Waterloo Ontario (Dr. Powers) (while I was an inpatient), tell me that for the most part antidepressant medications are placebos.
>
> She's about the only psychiarist I respected since she at least told it how it is.I hope you asked to see her credentials.... pretty easy to photoshop "Chief of Staff"... that is, if she actually stated that???
On another note, I had the "Chief of Police" tell me all their side-arms carry blanks! LOL!
Posted by elanor roosevelt on November 17, 2008, at 21:07:31
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » linkadge, posted by ricker on November 17, 2008, at 13:12:31
c'mon
can't get all those great side effects with a placeboi think patients should be allowed to prescribe meds for their pdocs
Posted by LostBoyinNCBecksDark on November 18, 2008, at 16:02:39
In reply to Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by bulldog2 on November 13, 2008, at 11:57:12
> When I first starting lurking here about five years ago I was interested in med info on depression/anxiety and probably bipolar 2.
> Problem is there are so many opinions here regarding meds.
> 1. meds and cbt work the best
> 2. meds work
> 3. sometimes meds work
> 4. meds are toxic and p-docs are all fakes
> 5. just need diet and exercise
> 6. try accupuncture and herbs
> etc.
>
> I guess from reading all the negative stuff about meds I never have really completed a med cycle. start and stop quickly except for benzos.
> I have done the diet and exercise regime my entire life and that hasn't really worked. I still slip into depression and anxiety or possible bipolar moods. and yes I have done talk therapy for years without real help.
> So now that i fear p-docs are shams and meds are toxic plots to destroy us it really has made it hard to get and really see if meds work.
> Life is passing me by. All these opinions about meds and p-docs and how to handle mental issues has basically paralyzed me into indecision.
> I wonder if I would have been better off if I had never stumbled on this site. Just trusted my p-doc and given meds a fair shot. I guess that would have been the best way to find out if meds work.
> Anyone find to much info and to many opinions makes treatment more diffucult?Personally, I think this site and the way its moderated is extremely misinformative and in some respects, even dangerous. I have read so much med bs on this board over the years. Its just unbelievable. This board exists mainly as a research tool for Dr. Bob than as a real med support site.
LostBoyinNC
Posted by ricker on November 18, 2008, at 17:32:15
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by LostBoyinNCBecksDark on November 18, 2008, at 16:02:39
> Personally, I think this site and the way its moderated is extremely misinformative and in some respects, even dangerous. I have read so much med bs on this board over the years. Its just unbelievable. This board exists mainly as a research tool for Dr. Bob than as a real med support site.
>The only part of this opinion I agree with is; "Personally".
Cheers!
Posted by SLS on November 19, 2008, at 6:10:24
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by LostBoyinNCBecksDark on November 18, 2008, at 16:02:39
> Personally, I think this site and the way its moderated is extremely misinformative and in some respects, even dangerous. I have read so much med bs on this board over the years. Its just unbelievable. This board exists mainly as a research tool for Dr. Bob than as a real med support site.
Ok. Fair enough. I think it is good to examine these things occasionally.
Can you provide any postings as citations to substantiate your opinions regarding the casting of misinformation and other things that you find undesirable?
Why do you think this board is dangerous? What is so "unbelievable" to you?
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 13:52:28
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by LostBoyinNCBecksDark on November 18, 2008, at 16:02:39
Enlighten us.
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2008, at 18:56:07
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum? » LostBoyinNCBecksDark, posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 13:52:28
He's now blocked for a year. Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2008, at 20:16:28
In reply to Re: Anyone Ever Feel More Confused At This Forum?, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2008, at 18:56:07
That's why I come to site so infrequently today plus I have cured myself after 20 years of treatment. It's a great site for support fro others, but trying to digest the information presented by so many, with such varying backgrounds and "personalities", made it almost impossible to know what advice to listen to.
I like to come here and read postings and write a few responses, but overall I find too much information, too difficult to process and now that I am in remission and working, obviously I do not have much free time.
I wish you all success in finding solutions for your problems. I have struggled more than I care to admit over 30 years with depression and a variety of other less prominent conditions. I still struggle and have to work at staying together. Life is never easy whether you have a medical conditon or not, but a psychiatric diagnosis can be one of the most difficult and least understood, even by so-called experts, as so many of you know.
Just keep fighting for answers and trusting your own ability to work through things that don't work, forging ahead to try new options that might have potential. And don't ever think your doctor has ALL the answers, since I have found that I actually had more of the answers than the docs did. I would have never expected that.
I have come full circle, but the future for everyone, even those without an illness, is not certain.
I have learned that struggles are just part of the human condition and if you give up and accept a marginal existence, there is usually no one who will fight for you (Unless someone understands you and can do this for you). I had to do the fight myself since friends and family never understood what I had.
The worst part about depression is that it robs you of the ability to fight, so it is much harder to find answers and keep trying to get up and do it again day after day.
But I found the strength, somehow, to do this and thank God, I am happy and working right now. It may not be forever, but then again no one's life is ever guaranteed, beyond the moment in which you exist.
Philosophical, but true.
Good night all and stay well or get better, don't settle for less.
Stargazer (the stars are beautiful tonight here in New England, frosty and getting colder every day)
Posted by clipper40 on November 21, 2008, at 7:28:51
In reply to ALWAYS MORE CONFUSED HERE, posted by stargazer2 on November 20, 2008, at 20:16:28
Nice to hear about success stories! I'm very curious - what ended up working for you?
Posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 18:51:25
In reply to Re: ALWAYS MORE CONFUSED HERE » stargazer2, posted by clipper40 on November 21, 2008, at 7:28:51
I believe nardil. Love Phillipa we're friends.
Posted by clipper40 on November 22, 2008, at 9:36:10
In reply to Re: ALWAYS MORE CONFUSED HERE » clipper40, posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2008, at 18:51:25
Posted by stargazer2 on November 22, 2008, at 16:12:48
In reply to Re: ALWAYS MORE CONFUSED HERE » stargazer2, posted by clipper40 on November 21, 2008, at 7:28:51
I wrote a big long explanation of my attempts to get things on track. It explained everything (I doubt it) but I thought it would help others see what I had to do to figure things out with or without the help of experts. When I went to send it last night, it disappeared and was never to be found.
The simple answer to your question is Nardil with a touch of a stimulant.
The complicated version which tells the med trials and years of being house bound and suicidal is the much more complicated version, but I guess that is better left for me to understand, rather than relive it by explaining it to others.
Perhaps the moral of the story is that relatively easily remedied situations are not always seen for what they are. Sometimes the answers are right in front of us, but not in front of our doctors.
Too bad I wasn't able to prescribe for myself because I always felt my depression had a large component of ADD and my doc refused to go down that path. I'm still not sure why, but it cost me years of lost productivity and missing out on much of life for 20+ years. I had some normal times in the period but there was an overwhelming sense that something was not right in my brain.
I was getting ready to check out if my own attempts to find an answer did not pan out.
I'm so normal now its scarey. The meds turned me into a debilitated person and it makes me sick thinking if it happened to me, it is happening to millions of others.
That is Psychiatry in the 20th century. Frightening to see how far off the target things has gotten. Obviously, the target was never in my doctor's sight.
INHO, the increase in the number of meds being used for all kinds of conditions has made the treatment much harder since there are potentially so many combinations of meds that can be tried. That is where so much time was lost since every trial can take a few months. I totally gave up on continuing to test meds and told my doc that and then tried my own experiment and added a stim to Nardil and thought it did something.
We may try me just on some ADD meds in the future but I didn't want to risk unraveling since I am doing so well at my job right now. It would be quite risky to prove my theory that perhaps ADD was the basis of my depression, by quitting Nardil, at least for right now. That may be another phase in my treatment once I have gone for at leat a year without any relapse of my depression.
Hope this sheds some light on my story and believe me, this is the abbreviated version. My diary is 2 volumes and I only write when things are very bad.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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