![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
Ok - so I know my bf smokes MJ because he can relax and also play his guitar creatively, or more creatively...but he is also on antidepressants (Celexa/citalopram). I've never tried any drug ever and I rarely drink. I've always had a closed mind in regards to the MJ and he says "don't knock it til you try it" which I don't intend on doing, "a lot of the songs that you LOVE were created by people who were smoking MJ." and that I need to have an open mind about it.
He and I live 5hrs apart and that is part of the reason why he says he needs the celexa, me not being there and of course - money, not having enough, living paycheck to paycheck.
I don't want him to use MJ his whole life. Do people grow out of it? I know he used to drink a lot and get drunk and now a 6pack lasts him forever. I don't want us to be married and have kids and for him to be smoking when we have children who need to be cared for. I do try to have an open mind about it all. I know he could be doing SO many worse things. I know he loves playing the guitar and wants to pursue that as much as he can and I love hearing him play. I just personally do not understand the need to relax in that way or to escape reality for a while.
I'm looking for opinions on the combo of antidepressants and MJ, and whether people grow out of smoking MJ, and general opinions I suppose of MJ. I'm worried he's gonna do this the rest of his life and is it something I can learn to deal with or is it going to tear us apart? I don't think it's worth breaking up over, though. HELP!!! :D Oh, and please don't be mean or rude to me for feeling the way I feel because I'm not dissing anyone for using it or anything like that...I'm letting u know my opinions and fears and am asking for others opinions about MJ not about me. Thanks :)
Is MJ a depressant, and if so, then it's just cancelling the effects of the Celexa, right? Any thoughts or opinions on this? I need mucho info peeps! :) Thanks a bunch!
worriedgf
Posted by rvanson on June 25, 2008, at 4:24:19
In reply to Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
> Ok - so I know my bf smokes MJ because he can relax and also play his guitar creatively, or more creatively...but he is also on antidepressants (Celexa/citalopram). I've never tried any drug ever and I rarely drink. I've always had a closed mind in regards to the MJ and he says "don't knock it til you try it" which I don't intend on doing, "a lot of the songs that you LOVE were created by people who were smoking MJ." and that I need to have an open mind about it.
>
> He and I live 5hrs apart and that is part of the reason why he says he needs the celexa, me not being there and of course - money, not having enough, living paycheck to paycheck.
>
> I don't want him to use MJ his whole life. Do people grow out of it? I know he used to drink a lot and get drunk and now a 6pack lasts him forever. I don't want us to be married and have kids and for him to be smoking when we have children who need to be cared for. I do try to have an open mind about it all. I know he could be doing SO many worse things. I know he loves playing the guitar and wants to pursue that as much as he can and I love hearing him play. I just personally do not understand the need to relax in that way or to escape reality for a while.
>
> I'm looking for opinions on the combo of antidepressants and MJ, and whether people grow out of smoking MJ, and general opinions I suppose of MJ. I'm worried he's gonna do this the rest of his life and is it something I can learn to deal with or is it going to tear us apart? I don't think it's worth breaking up over, though. HELP!!! :D Oh, and please don't be mean or rude to me for feeling the way I feel because I'm not dissing anyone for using it or anything like that...I'm letting u know my opinions and fears and am asking for others opinions about MJ not about me. Thanks :)
>
> Is MJ a depressant, and if so, then it's just cancelling the effects of the Celexa, right? Any thoughts or opinions on this? I need mucho info peeps! :) Thanks a bunch!
> worriedgfHi worriedgf,
I have studied the effects of many drug combos but I cant tell you what this is doing to your BF.
Celexa, by itself, is one of the better anti-depressants on the market, bar none.
What I CAN tell you is that your boyfriend is an MJ addict (not making any judgements here as we all have free-will) and only he can stop using it, it HE chooses to do so.
IOW, your boyfriend is no different then an alcoholic: he has to has his MJ to get the effect he wants.
This has less to do with his taking Celexa, then ii does with his chronic MJ use and just like alcoholics, he wont be a very responsible person until he puts the weed down.
Of course you don't understand his need any more then non-alcoholics understand the need to drink, but one thing is sure: if you have a child with this person (and he may be the the greatest guy in the world for all we know) he is going to keep using weed until heA: gets busted, or
B: gets a revelation.
The best hope you could offer is to take him to an Narcotics Anonymous meeting and see where guys like him usually end up, in the later part of thier addictions, when the fun is all gone.
Good luck and I wish you and him the best!
Posted by Molybdenum on June 25, 2008, at 6:36:31
In reply to Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
Hi worriedgf,
Firstly, sorry to hear about you being worried. Worried is one of those things I'm going to ban when I become "king of ze verld". I'm also going to ban dark blue socks. I stupidly bought 6 pairs of dark blue and 6 pairs of black ones and every time I wash them I have to go outside to make sure they're matched up. If I added up all the time I've spent outside matching up socks, I'm sure I could have built a small house. If you have any requests for when I'm king, just mail me. ;)
Secondly, there's another message board here called "Psycho-Babble Substance Use". It's not as busy as this one but it's much more likely to have people who have gone through what you are now. So I suggest you repost your query over there. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/
If you're bored to death, then read on as I waffle: :)
I haven't smoked since I was a teenager. To be honest, I never really liked it. And I tried really hard to like it. I smoked a lot of it in an effort to get to liking it but gave up in the end. I liked the utter living crap out of a lot of other drugs like LSD, methamphetamine and heroin - but not MJ. ;)
From my personal experience, I would class MJ as a mild psychedelic or better still as a "stupefying" drug. I know a lot of people say it relaxes them and some take it to relieve physical pain, but for me I found it "clouded" my thinking.
I recall seeing a cartoon in a magazine from about 40 years ago - but it was so perfect (IMHO) I remember it well. There's these cavemen sitting around in a cave smoking a joint and one of them says "Wow, it makes everything I think seem profound". That pretty much sums up my feelings about MJ.
As for citalopram, I used that for years to treat depression. It worked quite well until it stopped working - they call it "pooping out". So I swapped over to some other ones that are working well for me. So other than pooping out, it was a fine anti-depressant drug.
Now, I would most definitely argue that citalopram & MJ do NOT cancel each other out. They are very different. I'm talking pianos & ice-cream different.
To give you an idea of what your bf might be like "moving forward", I suggest you rent or preferably download illegally, a movie called "Super High Me" made in 2007. I suspect a lot of it will look painfully familiar. I didn't like watching the movie and I suspect neither will you. The suggestion in the movie is that some people never "grow out of it". And despite being quite fond of many drugs - legal or otherwise over the years, I would personally not be thrilled at the prospect of having children with a heavy MJ user. It just strikes me as a drug for people that "want out". I don't mean to criticise such desires, I just find it difficult to reconcile the idea of that kind of thinking with my thoughts on "being a good parent". I believe that parenting is just about the ONLY thing in this life that you need to take seriously. So watch the movie and try to decide if it makes you feel like having babies with this person. Hmmm....
From my personal experience, I can honestly say that I've never found heavy users of MJ to appear terribly intelligent or witty or interesting to talk to when they're stoned. So I tend to think of it as a drug that "dumbs down" the mind. That's just my 5c worth. And when I talk to someone - particularly someone I have feelings for, I like to think that I'm talking with "the real person" - not someone who's mind has gone away on vacation. :)
And as far as you living 5 hrs away being part of the reason HE needs citalopram, well that's just not true at all. The citalopram is to treat his depression or other psychiatric illness for which citalopram is indicated. I'm sure you're an interesting , beautiful, intelligent & charming girl that any bf in his right mind would miss terribly when you're away. However, I don't believe your beauty, personality or impressive intellect is capable of inducing clinical depression or other psychiatric disorders in people by your absence. Do you..? :) OK.
Well my last bit of advice it to follow your heart. Try to work out if your bf makes you feel full of joy & enthusiasm or do you feel more mixed or unpleasant emotions. And don't expect to be able to change people into what you'd like them to be. I don't think that works out very often either.
Good luck & Take care
Mr. Molybdenum
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2008, at 11:06:59
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by Molybdenum on June 25, 2008, at 6:36:31
Only smoked it once and felt like I was flying in an airplane in my car, it lasted 24 hours then boom down to reality. Some say it must have been spiked with something. Agree substance abuse best board but MR M you should get white socks then no matching. Phillipa
Posted by Justherself54 on June 25, 2008, at 11:25:00
In reply to Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
He may have traded one addiction, alcohol for MJ. Bottom line, he knows it bothers and concerns you and still lights up when you are around and justifies it with the "don't knock it til you try it". I know two fellows, one with two little kids, the other lost his only daughter to an accident. They are both chronic smokers. The one who lost his child smokes all day and night. I truly believe this has stopped his grieving process in its tracks.
The one with little children has traded alcohol for pot, simply to keep his marriage together...his wife has accepted pot over alcohol...I did ask her how they were going to tell their kids to just say no to drugs when daddy's in the shed every night getting high and that her kids would find out...she said she didn't know...both these men are in their forties and have been chronic smokers since their teens...
On the other hand there are lots of "recreational smokers" who indulge on an occational basis with no problem. You are already expressing concern about the amount of pot he smokes, so I'm quessing you feel it's long past recreational...
So as to your question will he grow out of it...he may not...and that's where you will have to ask yourself whether you can accept being married to and raising a family with a MJ user...
For every concern you raise, he's already countering with putting the onus on you...you're too uptight, all music you love was produced by musicians who were high, the list will go on and on until you don't know if you're coming or going...
Please think of yourself and what your standards are for a healthy relationship...and don't settle for anything less...I think your fears and concerns are valid and I'm glad you are doing some soul-searching...
Posted by Horned One on June 25, 2008, at 13:00:03
In reply to Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
How much MJ does he smoke and how often does he use it? You don't seem to say. Is it the idea that he uses MJ at all, or the amount he smokes that bothers you most? If he spends most days sitting around stoned then I'd say he has a problem. I understand why don't want to raise a child with a chronic MJ user. It would probably be difficult for him to take up his own share of parental responsibility with that pattern of usage. You might find he has less inclination to use if you start living together though. His MJ usage might be a reflection of the company he keeps at the moment, and that might change if he were to spend most of his time around non-users.
Unlike a lot of other recreational drugs Marijuana isn't exceptionally hard to give up, even after heavy use, but once you've got into a habit of taking it regularly there usually has to be a strong motivating reason to stop, and something to reinforce that change. Since he went through a period of heavy alcohol usage and now has no problem limiting his intake I'd say the chances are good that he can do the same thing with MJ. A lot of young men go through a period of heavy drinking at some point, and perhaps MJ use too.
MJ is known to interact negatively with some antidepressants, usually causing severe rapid heartbeat. Most of the interactions reported have been with the older TCA drugs, probably because the two in combination have strong antimuscarinic effects, but this is less of a problem with the newer SSRIs like Celexa. If your bf was having this kind of interaction I think he would have noticed it by now.
On a personal note, I have smoked MJ while taking Celexa and Parnate and had no problems. I've also gone through brief periods of heavy use while working with, and associating with other (more chronic) MJ users. I don't peronally feel that occasional use is a huge problem, probably because having taken MJ I can relate to your bf's desire to enhance his creativity. As the previous poster said, it tends to make everything seem profound, as if you are looking at a deeper level of reality than the one we operate in in our ordinary, everday lives. Normal consciousness seems shallow and superficial in comparison. I never particulary liked the drug myself, certainly not when used for more than a few days, because I found it drastically impaired my short-term memory, ability to plan and follow through with things etc. It was fun as an occasional way to lift myself out of myself though, a sort of mini ego death. It's easy to see why it appeals to artists and musicians.
I've known people who smoke MJ several times a day, drive on the drug, and that scares me. I don't know how the drug laws operate in the US, but here the police can perform a random (I think saliva) test on anyone they suspect of driving while under the influence of drugs. The problem is that MJ is detectable for a about three days or more after a single toke, so he needs to be carfeul this way. There are a number of so called 'legal highs' that use herbal products to simulate the MJ experience, hence avoiding the risk of detection. I've tried them myself and the experience is very close to the real thing. I don't know if you'd feel any differently about that, but this could be a first step to weaning himself off MJ, and perhaps to stopping his drug use altogether. If you're interested let me know and I can post some links.
-Horny
Posted by ryno on June 25, 2008, at 13:56:43
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by rvanson on June 25, 2008, at 4:24:19
> What I CAN tell you is that your boyfriend is an MJ addict (not making any judgements here as we all have free-will) and only he can stop using it, it HE chooses to do so.
How exactly can you tell that? Are you assuming that because he uses, that he's an addict? Or do you have some other information I didn't see in her post?
--Ryan
Posted by ryno on June 25, 2008, at 14:15:23
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by Horned One on June 25, 2008, at 13:00:03
> I don't know how the drug laws operate in the US, but here the police can perform a random (I think saliva) test on anyone they suspect of driving while under the influence of drugs.
I'm sorry, its off topic, but what country are you from?As far as laws in the US go, some states do have laws that allow drug testing drivers in certain circumstances(i.e. fatal car accident). Only ones I've ever heard of here are blood tests. I don't think they could convict here for driving under the influence of marijuana, simply because there is no way to accurately test exactly when someone last used marijuana. A person would only need to admit that used the marijuana several days before the incident.
There are many states that automatically suspend a drivers license if they are charged with possession of marijuana, during a motor vehicle stop.
Enough of my babbling.
--Ryan
Posted by Horned One on June 25, 2008, at 14:48:30
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by ryno on June 25, 2008, at 14:15:23
I live in the UK. There has been a lot of publicity over the last few years about roadside drug testing. I'm not sure that everyone that scores a positive result is charged, but I don't think the lawmakers would find it very satisfactory if everyone who got a positive result could get off completely clean by saying they used the drug days before. I think you would probably be taken to the police station for a blood test if MJ was detected a roadside test, and there would certainly be a record made of it. I think the chances of incurring some sort of penalty are pretty high. A similar scheme runs in Australia, and apparently anyone scoring a positive result is fined and can lose their license.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4595949.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4090875.stm-Horny
Posted by bleauberry on June 25, 2008, at 18:46:05
In reply to Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
MJ is too complicated to guess out how it interacts with celexa. Other than brain effects, it could be modifying the speed at which the liver metabolizes celexa. Either slowing it down creating a higher dose (higher blood level), or speeding it up, creating a lower blood level. Maybe no difference at all.
I was a chronic smoker for many years, even while on various psychiatric meds. I felt MJ was a better antidepressant than the drugs. I ended up using MJ just like a drug...not to get high, but to get just the right mood...and it involved methodically taking carefully planned doses (number of puffs, usually 2 or 3)) and specific amount of time between doses (usually 4-6 hours). When I decided to quit, I weaned off it very slowly and methodically, just like a med, over a 3 month period.
Key points to think about, based on my own experience:
*While creativity in music is indeed enhanced a lot during short term or intermittent use of MJ, it is actually dampened badly in the longterm. You record yourself playing something amazing, and then later listen to it while straight and realize the recording was pretty lousy and you wonder what you ever saw in it. The guitar playing never was actually divinely creative, it was only the twisted perception of the the player that made it seem like it was at the time.
*Chronic use has been associated with the development of new psychiatric symptoms that did not previously exist, such as eventual renewal of depression, drug poopout, schizophrenia, paranoia, and anxiety.
*Living paycheck to paycheck as you said is made ten times worse with chronic MJ usage, as it is expensive. Take that expense out of your budget and you'll find a lot of extra free money to spend on clothes and restaurants or whatever. The biggest out-of-pocket expense for MJ, other than buying it all the time, is making bail to get out of jail...if you are living paycheck to paycheck, forget it, bail is too high, he's staying in jail because you can't raise the funds to get him out.
*There is no way to know what the crop of MJ is contaminated with...pesticides, insecticides, fertilizers, or the health of the soil.
*Lots of people have no choice but to quit smoking MJ when they hear the knock of a police officer at the door with a search warrant. Suddenly with hand cuffs on, in the backseat of a squad car, and locked in a cement cell behind steel bars, it is kind of hard to play guitar, get creative on guitar, make love with girlfriend, go to work, pay bills, get celexa, get any kind of psychiatric care, or anything. Basically life as you know it comes to a screeching halt. No weaning, just pure sudden withdrawal. Been there done that. Just keep in mind, no matter how careful he is, no matter how safe it seems, sooner or later something is going to go wrong. It is just a matter of time. Might be next week, might be next year, might be in 5 years.Some people grow their own, so there is control over contamination and expense and quality. But the jail factor takes on heavier weight.
Take it from a longtime user...the reward is not high enough to justify the risk.
If he truly loves you, he will quit if you give him a stern choice...either he quits or you leave him. If he chooses to keep smoking, then you know where you really stand in this relationship...lower than a dried up piece of plant.
Forget the celexa connection. Just get him off MJ before unseen damage to his mind, his body, his future, his freedom, his guitar playing, are too late to reverse. Not to mention the damage to your life. The lives of those around a chronic user are usually impacted more than the user himself.
Posted by Molybdenum on June 25, 2008, at 19:38:35
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by Justherself54 on June 25, 2008, at 11:25:00
Dear Justherself54,
that was a very well written little post. I take my hat off to you - congratulations indeed. :)
You should start a "Dear Justherself54" column...!
Posted by Molybdenum on June 25, 2008, at 21:09:51
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » ryno, posted by Horned One on June 25, 2008, at 14:48:30
Yep,
I have to agree with The Horned One. I am in Australia, and while we are quite a relaxed bunch in so many ways, there is zero tolerance of persons driving "under the influence".
In my state, people lose their license if their blood alcohol content (BAC) is over 0.05%. And it doesn't take too many drinks at all to get you to .05.
Professional drivers such as truck, bus or taxi drivers; plus those who've had their license for less than 3 years must have a zero BAC. These people need to be very careful about cough mixtures that contain alcohol, as zero really means ZERO.
For at least 20 years the police have had these buses where they can do blood tests. They park just over a hill, with pursuit cars ready to pounce at every possible exit. So as soon as you see them, you can't escape - not that I care much as I hardly drink & wouldn't drive if I did anyway. So you're put in a queue to get tested. They use a disposable straw thing that attaches to a breath tester. You blow into it & if it reads 0.05%, then they take you into the bus for a blood test. I'm pretty sure you can refuse to take the tests - that's your right. The penalty for exercising that right is the MAXIMUM penalty for drink driving. :) aka "the idiot's defence"...!
I always find it funny when I see shows from other countries where drunk people have to touch their nose with their eyes closed or walk on a straight line, etc. Beats me why the police just don't use the breath & blood tests. Admittedly, our methods would make for boring TV viewing ;)
So the idea of stopping people driving while "intoxicated" has almost unanimous public support. The trouble until recently, is that there's no easy way to detect the other 1000 drugs that can adversely affect your ability to drive.
They do now have a saliva test that picks up THC (ie "MJ"), amphetamines and possibly opiates. If the saliva test comes up positive, a blood test or second saliva test is required. They send that off to a lab for confirmation & to determine exact quantities. Apparently THC is detectable in saliva for several hours after smoking.
The interesting thing for me is that I could very well test positive for both THC & amphetamines(I used to take a lot of Ritalin for "narcolepsy"). I think they'd do the blood test & then I'd need to provide them with evidence of exactly what & how much my doc had prescribed. I imagine that if my blood test results agreed with the specific amounts I'd been prescribed, I'd be OK. However, if I had taken say double what the doc had prescribed, I might be in trouble despite my use not being technically "illegal". It all gets very grey here because what one drug at a given dose will do to one person, is completely different to how it might affect someone else. So I'd probably end up in court having to argue that despite OD'ing a bit, I wasn't actually "intoxicated" and that my ability to drive safely wasn't diminished. Hmm...it could go either way.
The whole point is to punish those who knowingly drive while "intoxicated". So unless my blood test indicated I'd deliberately overdosed myself, I think I'd be OK provided they didn't see me driving "dangerously", etc. It's an interesting issue for us Aussies who are "highly medicated" sorts.
And finally to explain why I might test positive for THC, I was reading at Wiki recently about one of the meds I am prescribed (can't remember which one!) and it said that it can produce a false positive reading for THC. So that's another complication...!
One more aspect to all this is that I recently heard of a truck driver who was involved in a fatal accident while driving. He didn't test positive for ANYTHING, but he had been doing double-shifts and was therefore knowingly very tired when the accident happened. I think he got convicted just the same as if he were drunk. Hmmmm......
So sorry for hijacking your thread worriedGF. I'll stop now & release all the hostages - unharmed ;)
Mr. M.
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 22:30:42
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by rvanson on June 25, 2008, at 4:24:19
> What I CAN tell you is that your boyfriend is an MJ addict (not making any judgements here as we all have free-will) and only he can stop using it, it HE chooses to do so.
You can't say he's an addict, I never said how often he smokes or anything like that which would allow you to state as such. But you are correct in saying that only he can stop when he chooses to do so...giving him an ultimatum might do it, but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but it may in the future. In all honesty, there's a lot of tiny habits of his that I'm sure I don't have any idea of because we don't even live in the same town. These are things I need to keep in mind as we get to know one another on a more personal, face to face level. Thanks, though :)
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 22:48:28
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by Molybdenum on June 25, 2008, at 6:36:31
> Secondly, there's another message board here called "Psycho-Babble Substance Use". It's not as busy as this one but it's much more likely to have people who have gone through what you are now. So I suggest you repost your query over there. http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/
I'M GOING TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS ONLY SO YOU CAN EASILY READ WHERE I RESPOND, BUT IM NOT YELLING :)
I DID POST THE EXACT SAME POST IN THE SUBSTANCE USE MESSAGE BOARD, BUT I DIDNT RECEIVE ANY RESPONSES SO I TRIED THIS ONE SINCE IT HAD BEEN ADDED TO RECENTLY.
>
>
I DON'T KNOW IF THE CELEXA IS POOPING OUT, HE SAYS HE'S DOING GOOD AND HE SEEMS TO BE DOING SO AS FAR AS I CAN TELL. WHAT I READ WAS THAT mj IS A NATURAL DEPRESSANT, SO IF HE'S SMOKING MJ AND IS ON ANTIDEP'S THEN THE CELEXA ISN'T BEING ALLOWED TO WORK TO ITS FULLEST ABILITY. THEY JUST COUNTER-ACT EACH OTHER.> To give you an idea of what your bf might be like "moving forward", I suggest you rent or preferably download illegally, a movie called "Super High Me" made in 2007. I suspect a lot of it will look painfully familiar.
I DONT' REALLY THINK ANY OF IT WILL LOOK PAINFULLY FAMILIAR BECAUSE I HAVEN'T REALLY EVER BEEN AROUND HIM WHEN HE WAS SMOKING, ONLY RECENTLY DID HE SMOKE WHEN I WAS VISITING, BUT I TOLD HIM I DONT WANNA BE NEAR IT AND HE BETTER NEVER SMOKE AROUND ME, SO HE WENT INTO HIS OTHER ROOM AND ABOUT AN HOUR LATER CAME INTO THE LIVING ROOM AND PLAYED HIS GUITAR. I'D BEEN IN THE ROOM WHEN HE WASN'T SMOKING AND IT SMELLED HORRIBLY. I TOLD HIM TO AIR IT OUT.
I didn't like watching the movie and I suspect neither will you. The suggestion in the movie is that some people never "grow out of it".
I DO KEEP IN MIND THAT HE MAY NEVER GROW OUT OF IT...THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WHY I WANNA LIVE (AT LEAST IN THE SAME TOWN) WITH HIM (BUT LATER IN THE SAME HOUSE) BEFORE WE GET MARRIED.
>
> And as far as you living 5 hrs away being part of the reason HE needs citalopram, well that's just not true at all. The citalopram is to treat his depression or other psychiatric illness for which citalopram is indicated.THOSE AREN'T THE ONLY REASONS HE WENT TO THE DOC TO GET HELP AND HAS TO TAKE CELEXA, HIS PROBLEMS STEM FROM YEARS N YEARS OF DEPRESSION, BUT LATELY HE'S BEEN MORE STRESSED ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO BE NEAR ME (AS AM I) AND HIS MONEY ISSUES.
I'm sure you're an interesting , beautiful, intelligent & charming girl that any bf in his right mind would miss terribly when you're away.
I AM ALL OF THE ABOVE, THANKS FOR NOTICING ;)
However, I don't believe your beauty, personality or impressive intellect is capable of inducing clinical depression or other psychiatric disorders in people by your absence. Do you..? :) OK.
>
I WOULD HOPE IT DIDN'T! LOL> Well my last bit of advice it to follow your heart. Try to work out if your bf makes you feel full of joy & enthusiasm or do you feel more mixed or unpleasant emotions. And don't expect to be able to change people into what you'd like them to be. I don't think that works out very often either.
I THINK SOMETIMES I DO HOPE TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE HIM, BUT NOT TO CHANGE HIM INTO WHO I WANT HIM TO BE, BUT TO MOTIVATE AND INSPIRE HIM TO BETTER HIMSELF. HE KNOWS HOW MUCH I HATE THAT HE SMOKES, AND HIS CONCLUSION WHILE IM VISITING IS THAT HE WONT SMOKE AT ALL WHEN IM VISITING...BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I LIVE THERE. I KNOW THINGS ARE GOING TO BE WAAAAAAAY DIFFERENT WHEN WE ARE AROUND EACH OTHER MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY OTHER MONTH. BUT THESE THINGS I AM GOING TO EXPERIENCE AND LEARN ABOUT HIM WILL DETERMINE THE FUTURE, AS WILL HE LEARN THINGS ABOUT ME THAT WILL AID IN HIS DECISION ABOUT A FUTURE WITH ME. I KNOW I CANNOT FORCE HIM TO DO ANYTHING AND I CAN ONLY EXPRESS TO HIM HOW I FEEL ABOUT IT, BUT ULTIMATELY IT'S UP TO HIM. HIS CELEXA HAS HAD AN EFFECT ON HIS SEXUAL DESIRES TOO...I HOPE TO GET HIS MEDICATION SITUATION TO A POINT WHERE HE IS HAPPY AND I AM HAPPY AS WELL ;)
>
> Good luck & Take care
> THANK YOU :)> Mr. Molybdenum
>
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 22:51:05
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by Justherself54 on June 25, 2008, at 11:25:00
Thanks for your input...There are several things that are going to be completely different once he and I are living in the same town, and hopefully one day in the same house. These are all things I am going to take into consideration before marrying or having kids with him. I appreciate you message.
Thank You.
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 23:17:30
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out? » worriedgf, posted by Horned One on June 25, 2008, at 13:00:03
> How much MJ does he smoke and how often does he use it?
I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUCH, BUT ONE TIME I ASKED HOW OFTEN AND HE SAID ON HIS DAYS OFF WHICH IS USUALLY 2 DAYS A WEEK. NOW I DONT KNOW HOW OFTEN DURING THOSE DAYS, BUT WHEN I WAS UP THERE FOR A WHOLE WEEK I OBSERVED HIM SMOKING AFTER WORK (NO IDEA HOW MUCH CUZ I WAS NEVER AROUND HIM WHILE HE DID IT. I WAS IN ANOTHER ROOM) 4 NIGHTS. ONE NIGHT HE EVEN WALKED IN THE DOOR, DIDN'T GIVE ME A KISS, PUT HIS CLOTHES IN THE WASHER, SPENT AN HOUR WITH ME (I WAS SICK :( ) AND THEN ABANDONED ME FOR ANOTHER HOUR (I HAD BEEN STUCK AT HIS HOUSE WHILE HE WAS AT WORK FOR LIKE 8HRS) AND I GOT FRUSTRATED AND OPENED THE DOOR TO THE ROOM HE SMOKES IN AND SAID AS I CHOKED FROM THE SMOKE, DOES IT TAKE AN HOUR?!?! AND I STORMED UP TO THE BEDROOM. I'D BEEN ALONE MOST OF THE DAY AND I FELT ABANDONED...BUT THEN AGAIN I WAS PMSING TOO :D
You don't seem to say. Is it the idea that he uses MJ at all, or the amount he smokes that bothers you most?I THINK IT IS JUST THE MERE FACT THAT HE USES IT THAT BOTHERS ME. I WAS RAISED THAT YOU DON'T DO DRUGS AND YOU DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE, I BARELY EVER HAVE MORE THAN 2 DRINKS AND HAVE NEVER IN MY 26 YEARS OF LIFE BEEN DRUNK, NOT ONCE. ALSO, WHEN HE ASKED ME TO BE HIS GF I TOLD HIM I WOULD BUT HE HAD TO STOP SMOKING POT...HE DID, BUT HAS SINCE TAKEN IT UP AGAIN AND I TOLD HIM I FEEL LIKE YOU DON'T CARE BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT'S THE ONE THING I DIDN'T WANT YOU TO DO BUT NOW YOU JUST DO IT ANYWAYS...(THIS IS AN ISSUE I'M GONNA PRESS BECAUSE IT WAS MY ONLY STIPULATION!)
If he spends most days sitting around stoned then I'd say he has a problem.
HE DOES NOT.I understand why don't want to raise a child with a chronic MJ user. It would probably be difficult for him to take up his own share of parental responsibility with that pattern of usage.
THIS IS WHAT IM AFRAID OF, BUT AGAIN, IT'S SOMETHING I NEED TO OBSERVE IN HIM BEFORE DECIDING ON KIDS.
You might find he has less inclination to use if you start living together though.
I'M HOPING THIS IS TRUE...HE DOESN'T REALLY HAVE MANY MANY FRIENDS AND HE DOESN'T GO OUT AT ALL REALLY. HIS BEST FRIEND AND MY BEST FRIEND WERE BOTH LOST (WE STOPPED TALKING TO THEM, THEY DIDN'T DIE) WHEN HE AND I STARTED DATING. LONG STORY SHORT, THEY KEPT INTERFERING WITH OUR RELATIONSHIP AND TRYING TO BREAK IT UP, AND TOOK IT TOO FAR, SO WE DECIDED WE DIDN'T NEED THAT DRAMA IN OUR LIVES SO WE BROKE ALL TIES WITH THEM. I AM HOPING THAT WHEN WE DO GET TO SPEND MORE TIME TOGETHER THAT I CAN FIND NUMEROUS THINGS TO DO THAT ARE RELAXING AND NOT SO STRESSING, AND WOULD ELIMINATE HIM FEELING THE "NEED" TO SMOKE IN ORDER TO RELAX. CROSS YOUR FINGERS :)His MJ usage might be a reflection of the company he keeps at the moment, and that might change if he were to spend most of his time around non-users.
I'M NOT SURE WHO ALL HE HANGS AROUND WITH BUT I DO KNOW THAT MOST OF HIS FRIENDS FROM BEFORE HE AND I GOT TOGETHER ARE MORE THAN LIKELY USERS AS WELL. HE MADE MOST OF HIS FRIENDS ON THE COMPUTER AND HE WAS SMOKING BEFORE HE AND I GOT TOGETHER SO I AM SURE THAT'S WHAT MOST OF THEM HAD IN COMMON...AGAIN, ANOTHER THING TO DO WHEN I LIVE THERE...GET BETTER FRIENDS :D
>
> Unlike a lot of other recreational drugs Marijuana isn't exceptionally hard to give up, even after heavy use, but once you've got into a habit of taking it regularly there usually has to be a strong motivating reason to stop, and something to reinforce that change. Since he went through a period of heavy alcohol usageI DONT THINK HE HAD A PERIOD OF HEAVY ALCOHOL USE, I THINK HE WOULD DRINK WHEN AT A PARTY WITH FRIENDS AND HE'D USUALLY GET DRUNK...UP UNTIL ONE NIGHT THAT HE GOT REALLY REALLY DRUNK AND WAS HALF CONSCIOUS ON THE GRASS AND HIS FRIEND TOOK PICS OF IT AND UPON SEEING THE PICS HE HAD NO RECOLLECTION OF ANY OF THAT, HE STOPPED DOING IT...WHICH MAKES ME THINK SOMETHING IS GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN TO HIM TO SHOCK HIM OUT OF SMOKING MJ.
and now has no problem limiting his intake I'd say the chances are good that he can do the same thing with MJ.
I HOPE THAT'S TRUE, THAT HE CAN ONE DAY JUST NOT DO IT, OR WEEN OFF OF IT, OR DO IT ONCE IN A WHILE.A lot of young men go through a period of heavy drinking at some point, and perhaps MJ use too.
>
> MJ is known to interact negatively with some antidepressants, usually causing severe rapid heartbeat. Most of the interactions reported have been with the older TCA drugs, probably because the two in combination have strong antimuscarinic effects, but this is less of a problem with the newer SSRIs like Celexa. If your bf was having this kind of interaction I think he would have noticed it by now.
I DON'T THINK HE'S HAVING ANY IRREGULAR HEARTBEATS OR RAPID ONES, HE'S BEEN ON THE CELEXA FOR ABOUT A YEAR, I'D SAY.
>
> On a personal note, I have smoked MJ while taking Celexa and Parnate and had no problems. I've also gone through brief periods of heavy use while working with, and associating with other (more chronic) MJ users. I don't peronally feel that occasional use is a huge problem, probably because having taken MJ I can relate to your bf's desire to enhance his creativity.
I DO WANT HIM TO PURSUE HIS MUSIC BECAUSE IT'S WHAT HE LOVES, BUT I DONT SEE THE NEED TO SMOKE IF HE'S NOT GONNA PLAY HIS GUITAR...WHICH HE DOES, BUT ONLY IF HE'S HAD A HORRIBLE DAY AT WORK.As the previous poster said, it tends to make everything seem profound, as if you are looking at a deeper level of reality than the one we operate in in our ordinary, everday lives. Normal consciousness seems shallow and superficial in comparison. I never particulary liked the drug myself, certainly not when used for more than a few days, because I found it drastically impaired my short-term memory, ability to plan and follow through with things etc. It was fun as an occasional way to lift myself out of myself though, a sort of mini ego death. It's easy to see why it appeals to artists and musicians.
I DONT THINK THAT HE SMOKES AND SMOKES FOR DAYS ON END BECAUSE I WOULD NOTICE A CHANGE IN HIM AND HE USUALLY REMEMBERS WHEN I ASK ABOUT THINGS I'D TOLD HIM IN THE PAST.
>
> I've known people who smoke MJ several times a day, drive on the drug, and that scares me.
THAT SCARES ME TOO, BUT I KNOW HE KNOWS NOT TO DRIVE WHILE HIGH.I don't know how the drug laws operate in the US, but here the police can perform a random (I think saliva) test on anyone they suspect of driving while under the influence of drugs. The problem is that MJ is detectable for a about three days or more after a single toke, so he needs to be carfeul this way.
HE WORKS IN A JOB THAT DOESN'T TEST RANDOMLY AND HE'S A VERY CAUTIOUS DRIVER. I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT MAKING A CALL TO THE HEADQUARTERS OF HIS WORK AND TELL THEM THEY NEED TO START TESTING...BUT IM SURE THEY WOULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE OF ONE PHONE CALL...I ALSO, LIKE I SAID EARLIER, FEAR THAT HE WON'T CHANGE HIS WAYS UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS, DRASTIC OR NOT. I THOUGHT ABOUT CALLING HIS DOCTOR AND ANONYMOUSLY TELLING HIM THAT MY BF SMOKES POT AND TO SCARE HIM WITH INFO OR TO HELP HIM COPE WITH ANYTHING... OR TO CALL HIS PARENTS lol BUT THAT'S KINDA IMMATURE (IM GONNA TELL UR MOMMY ON U!) I'D LIKE TO WORK THIS OUT AS TWO ADULTS FIRST. I JUST HOPE HIS FATHER DOESN'T GO OVER TO THE HOUSE AND WALK INTO THAT ROOM AND SINCE IT SMELLS IT'LL BE BLATENTLY(?) OBVIOUS...BUT MAYBE THAT'S WHAT IT'D TAKE. WHO KNOWS!
There are a number of so called 'legal highs' that use herbal products to simulate the MJ experience, hence avoiding the risk of detection. I've tried them myself and the experience is very close to the real thing. I don't know if you'd feel any differently about that, but this could be a first step to weaning himself off MJ, and perhaps to stopping his drug use altogether.
WHEN I FIRST LEARNED THAT HE WAS SMOKING AGAIN IT WAS BECAUSE I DISCOVERED THAT HE WAS SMOKING SALVIA DIVINORUM. BUT THEN SOON THEREAFTER I FOUND OUT HE HAD STOPPED SMOKING THAT AND WAS BACK ON MJ. I DIDN'T LIKE THAT HE WAS SMOKING THE S.D. BUT HE SAID "PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SMOKING IT FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, ESPECIALLY THE MEXICANS" AND I'M HALF MEXICAN, AND I KNOW THIS IS TRUE...I COULDN'T QUITE FIND A GOOD ARGUMENT FOR THAT ONE :D
If you're interested let me know and I can post some links.
>
> -Horny
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 23:26:23
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by ryno on June 25, 2008, at 13:56:43
> > What I CAN tell you is that your boyfriend is an MJ addict (not making any judgements here as we all have free-will) and only he can stop using it, it HE chooses to do so.
>
> How exactly can you tell that? Are you assuming that because he uses, that he's an addict? Or do you have some other information I didn't see in her post?
>
> --Ryan
thanks Ryan, my thoughts exactly :D
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 23:39:41
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by bleauberry on June 25, 2008, at 18:46:05
> I was a chronic smoker for many years, even while on various psychiatric meds. I felt MJ was a better antidepressant than the drugs.
SEE I HAD READ THAT IT IS A NATURAL DEPRESSANT...WHAT EXACTLY IS IT lol.
When I decided to quit, I weaned off it very slowly and methodically, just like a med, over a 3 month period.
> WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO QUIT?
> Key points to think about, based on my own experience:
> *While creativity in music is indeed enhanced a lot during short term or intermittent use of MJ, it is actually dampened badly in the longterm. You record yourself playing something amazing, and then later listen to it while straight and realize the recording was pretty lousy and you wonder what you ever saw in it. The guitar playing never was actually divinely creative, it was only the twisted perception of the the player that made it seem like it was at the time.THIS IS TRUE, BUT I THINK SO FAR HE'S BEEN PLEASED WITH WHAT HE'S PLAYING...NOT SURE IF HE'S DOING ANY RECORDING THOUGH. AGAIN, YET ANOTHER THING I'LL FIND OUT WHEN I SEE HIM MORE OFTEN LOL
> *Chronic use has been associated with the development of new psychiatric symptoms that did not previously exist, such as eventual renewal of depression, drug poopout, schizophrenia, paranoia, and anxiety.
I'LL KEEP AN EYE ON ANY SIGNS OF CHANGE, THANKS :)> *Living paycheck to paycheck as you said is made ten times worse with chronic MJ usage, as it is expensive. Take that expense out of your budget and you'll find a lot of extra free money to spend on clothes and restaurants or whatever. The biggest out-of-pocket expense for MJ, other than buying it all the time, is making bail to get out of jail...if you are living paycheck to paycheck, forget it, bail is too high, he's staying in jail because you can't raise the funds to get him out.
HE GETS HIS MJ FOR FREE...I GUESS LUCKY HIM! (ugh lol) SO YEA, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I COULD USE AS AN EXCUSE, APPARENTLY HE GETS IT FOR FREE FROM A FRIEND, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHICH FRIEND.
> *There is no way to know what the crop of MJ is contaminated with...pesticides, insecticides, fertilizers, or the health of the soil.
I HAVE NO IDEA EITHER, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. I READ THAT THERE ARE LIKE 160 OTHER CHEMICALS IN MARIJUANA OTHER THAN THC...I MAY NOT BE REMEMBERING THAT CORRECTLY SO DON'T SUE ME lol
> *Lots of people have no choice but to quit smoking MJ when they hear the knock of a police officer at the door with a search warrant. Suddenly with hand cuffs on, in the backseat of a squad car, and locked in a cement cell behind steel bars, it is kind of hard to play guitar, get creative on guitar, make love with girlfriend, go to work, pay bills, get celexa, get any kind of psychiatric care, or anything. Basically life as you know it comes to a screeching halt. No weaning, just pure sudden withdrawal.I HOPE NOTHING LIKE THAT ENDS UP HAPPENING TO HIM...I'D RATHER HIS PARENTS FIND OUT THAN THE COPS, BUT HE CLAIMS THE JAILS ARE TOO FULL AND THAT THE WORST HE CAN GET IS A TICKET...I THOUGHT OK THEN I MIGHT ANONYMOUSLY CALL THE COPS AND TIP THEM OFF...BUT THIS IS ALL IN THEORY, I DON'T THINK I COULD EVER DO THAT TO HIM. (we'll see how far he pushes me though LOL)
Been there done that. Just keep in mind, no matter how careful he is, no matter how safe it seems, sooner or later something is going to go wrong. It is just a matter of time. Might be next week, might be next year, might be in 5 years.
> I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR HIM TO QUIT...I THINK HE WON'T QUIT UNLESS SOMETHING GOES WRONG, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT THIS IS JUST MY OBSERVATIONS FROM LIKE A WEEK...I HAVE NO IDEA HOW HE REALLY IS ABOUT HIS SMOKING OR HOW OFTEN OR HIS REASONS...ALL THINGS I'LL FIND OUT SOON.
> Some people grow their own, so there is control over contamination and expense and quality. But the jail factor takes on heavier weight.
> I KNOW HE DOESN'T GROW HIS OWN...AT LEAST NOT AT HIS HOUSE.....HMMMMM> Take it from a longtime user...the reward is not high enough to justify the risk.
>I WISH SOMEONE COULD TELL HIM THAT, OR THAT HE'D EVEN LISTEN TO REASON, ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW IF HE'D LISTEN TO REASON OR NOT, WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED IT MUCH...THIS IS SOMETHING I FEEL I NEED TO DISCUSS WITH HIM FACE TO FACE NOT JUST OVER THE TELEPHONE. I WANT HIM TO SEE HOW SERIOUS I AM AND HOW IT AFFECTS ME AND I WANT TO SEE HIM REACTIONS AND ATTITUDE.
> If he truly loves you, he will quit if you give him a stern choice...either he quits or you leave him. If he chooses to keep smoking, then you know where you really stand in this relationship...lower than a dried up piece of plant.THAT'S MY WORST FEAR, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IF HE PUTS ME AFTER THAT DRIED UP PIECE OF PLANT AS YOU PUT IT, THEN I DON'T NEED TO STAY IN THAT PLACE. I DESERVE TO BE ABOVE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS...BELOW FAMILY I CAN UNDERSTAND, BUT NOT BELOW DRUGS FOR SURE!
>
> Forget the celexa connection. Just get him off MJ before unseen damage to his mind, his body, his future, his freedom, his guitar playing, are too late to reverse. Not to mention the damage to your life. The lives of those around a chronic user are usually impacted more than the user himself.THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR POST :)
Posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 23:41:28
In reply to I've gone off topic a bit ;) » Horned One, posted by Molybdenum on June 25, 2008, at 21:09:51
That's ok that you over took my post lol...just don't let it happen again :D
jk
I really appreciate everyone's input...it's nice to read different opinions and to know that my fears are completely valid :)
-A
Posted by rvanson on June 26, 2008, at 1:27:30
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 22:30:42
> > What I CAN tell you is that your boyfriend is an MJ addict (not making any judgements here as we all have free-will) and only he can stop using it, it HE chooses to do so.
>
>
>
> You can't say he's an addict, I never said how often he smokes or anything like that which would allow you to state as such. But you are correct in saying that only he can stop when he chooses to do so...giving him an ultimatum might do it, but I'm hoping it doesn't come to that, but it may in the future. In all honesty, there's a lot of tiny habits of his that I'm sure I don't have any idea of because we don't even live in the same town. These are things I need to keep in mind as we get to know one another on a more personal, face to face level. Thanks, though :)I apologize for my opinion about your BF being an MJ addict. You are correct. I cannot judge him from afar, but I wish you two the best of luck and I hope you find the understanding that you want.
Posted by bleauberry on June 26, 2008, at 17:21:47
In reply to Re: Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 23:39:41
> > I was a chronic smoker for many years, even while on various psychiatric meds. I felt MJ was a better antidepressant than the drugs.
>
> SEE I HAD READ THAT IT IS A NATURAL DEPRESSANT...WHAT EXACTLY IS IT lol.Intermittent usage over the longterm might be ok based on watching friends for a lifetime who did that. It's the daily smokers who run into real problems later down the road. It negatively impacts family, fatherhood, husbandhood, employment, savings, physical health, and mental health.
>
> When I decided to quit, I weaned off it very slowly and methodically, just like a med, over a 3 month period.
> > WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO QUIT?I was negatively impacted in all the ways stated above.
In addition, I got away with a lot for longer than normal. I was getting paranoid my good luck was about to run out. Sellers are at high risk of being watched and busted. I had been a customer for too long. Growers are at high risk due to the impossibility even with high-tech to hide the odor of MJ, and infrared cameras that can see the heat pattern of growlights right through walls and roofs, and authorities who monitor unusual electricity usage. In short, I made a choice to withdraw under my own terms rather than someone else's.
>
> HE GETS HIS MJ FOR FREE...I GUESS LUCKY HIM! (ugh lol) SO YEA, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING I COULD USE AS AN EXCUSE, APPARENTLY HE GETS IT FOR FREE FROM A FRIEND, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHICH FRIEND.Nobody gets MJ for free. He's not telling the truth. Either he is buying it and not wanting you to know he is spending money, or he is involved with growing it somewhere. Maybe if he smokes only a tiny bit once in a while he could be getting that small quantity from a friend or someone who owes him money or something. That kind of situation is short-lived, and eventually growing or buying is inevitable.
>
>> > I KNOW HE DOESN'T GROW HIS OWN...AT LEAST NOT AT HIS HOUSE.....HMMMMM
Believe me, growers are superbly creative in hiding their activities. For a while anyway. We're all human, and eventually someone slips up just a tiny bit.
> STAY IN THAT PLACE. I DESERVE TO BE ABOVE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS...BELOW FAMILY I CAN UNDERSTAND, BUT NOT BELOW DRUGS FOR SURE!
As a girlfriend, yeah. As a future wife, you are number one over everything and anyone, including your own kids. Not sure where you stand with the Bible, but according to God, only He is higher than the wife.
>
> THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR POST :)So welcome! Hey, maybe it's just a passing chapter in his book and will all resolve smoothly. Definitely keep a very close suspicious eye on it and don't be afraid to ask tough questions, probing questions, make demands, or give lectures. If there is to be more growth in your relationship, its foundation is based on honesty. Without that, it is built on mud.
Posted by worriedgf on July 8, 2008, at 1:16:50
In reply to Celexa and MJ - do they cancel out?, posted by worriedgf on June 25, 2008, at 0:58:58
so today he said "if i had to choose between my music and my lifestyle or you, i'd choose my lifestyle"...but he thought i'd make him choose between him and his guitar. I love his guitar playing, but I don't like feeling second to the MJ. He says that other than being more creative or feeling more creative or whatever creativeness he feels when he's high and playing guitar, it also makes him feel good. I said well don't you think being with me will make you feel good? he said yes it does. so i said that's all i'm saying, when i was visiting you, you made me feel second to MJ, and you should spend time with me, especially if i fuckin' drove up to see you......... the things i'll have to deal with when i live up there UGH
MEN! MJ! Grrrrrrrrr!!!
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