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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by stargazer2 on August 19, 2007, at 9:54:10
In reply to Re: Lost years-amandafran, posted by jhj on August 19, 2007, at 0:47:20
The first time I went to someone with my "issues" I too was in my late 20's or early 30's. I thought I had lost most of my life to depression and never feeling well. Well, today at 50, I realize even after feeling better a few times, the relapse rate for me is very high and I have spent more years in a depression than out of one.
So, unfortunately, the treatment for me was never lasting and I am still trying to find a sense of "normalcy" which I had found and lost 2 different times in 20 years.
I am so disgusted with the lack of reponse i have had when others have had it relatively easy to find an answer. The struggle I have been in makes me think there is nothing that can help me and perhaps, it isn't depression but somethng else but what is it and what will get rid of it. My pdoc doesn't have many answers so I have tried to research myself without much luck.
I never thought my life would be so unfulfilled and hard as it has been. I am angry that I got the "defective" gene or whatever has caused my life to be unfocused and my motivation so poor and my vulnerability to rejection and scutiny so profound.
I am quickly running out of answers since the way depression is treated is such an inexact science and like I said, my time has been wasted for so many years. I don't even have a chance to resume any work or career ambitions since i have never feel like I fit in and I have always been rejected becasue of my insecurities. The few times I was out of the depression I felt confident and able to move forward in life, but this was such a short time and no meds have ever worked since then and I have tried and tried with the help of one pdoc to get a remission.
I just think my wiring is so messed up even the drugs don't make a difference.
Has anyone else beeen stuck for this long? It used to not matter how old I was but now it does since I never thought my life would be on hold for this many years.
It isn't like I haven't tried, I have been trying and still haven't gotten out from under this burden...At what point do you give up trying?
It may be time to stop all meds again, since if they are not helping, why am I on them?
Stargazer
Posted by Amandafran on August 19, 2007, at 10:28:58
In reply to Re: Lost years-amandafran, posted by jhj on August 19, 2007, at 0:47:20
>I didnt mean to sound like I was boasting or whatever...Im sorry if you took it that way. I am sorry about your situation...I know how you feel. You and I have had similiar experiences with relationships it sounds like and I am sorry you are having such a hard time. You are NOT alone. My message earlier was not trying to make you feel worse..or anyone else for that matter and I am sorry if it did.
Take Care.
AF
> First of all congratulation for finally getting rid of this crippling problem.But,i think you should see the things from positive point of view.You are 28 years old and now feeling normal.I am 29 year old and have taken several drugs but i have got zero benefit and i even do not know whether i will ever become normal.You are talking about relationship and friendship etc..But,my social phobia is so severe from childhood that i never have any friends at all.I am male and in these years i have not talked to any female at all because i fell so fearful of humiliation etc.I am staying alone in a rented house for five years.And,i do not know even names of my neighbours nither they know my name becaus i have never talked to them.So,it is good for you that at least you are only 28 and you have the time to live your life.I do not know if i will be able to do the same.Thanks
>
>
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 19:39:43
In reply to Lost years, posted by Amandafran on August 18, 2007, at 22:22:03
Time is of the essence. I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I would say a year and 4 months ago. I was completely confused about what I should do with my life. So I did the things that made me the happiest. My one true love in life is school. I love to learn. But I don't know if that stems from the bipolar disorder or if it is considered to be normal. It's just that I love to research. But find something exciting that you like to do. See if you can do some of the things that you use to like to do in the past.
You're still young. There will be plenty of opportunities for relationships. There is a right person for everyone. I am young myself. Only 22. I was engaged at one time. I had and still do have a problem with socializing with people. But I strive to succeed in life and I believe that if you can feel better than you can make your life feel better. Everyone has a destiny. You have many adventures ahead and lots of time to explore those adventures.
GOODLUCK! : )
Twinch
Posted by BenzosSSRIsohMY! on August 19, 2007, at 19:50:11
In reply to Re: Lost years » Amandafran, posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 19:39:43
Find the good in this, be happy that you have a good many years ahead of yourself. Some people, like myself, have spent a lifetime alone and depressed.
It's because the words have come out of the closet, we have the net, we can talk about this when before it was taboo.
I'm 43, and very very excited about the prospect of getting on track, not bitter about what "was".
PEACE
Posted by Squiggles on August 19, 2007, at 20:29:47
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by BenzosSSRIsohMY! on August 19, 2007, at 19:50:11
I was gullible about some serious matters.
I spent most of my life in dedication, work
and good will, while on lithium with all the
misadventures. Something bad happened to me.
My reputation has been compromised. I am planning to go back to school, and hope that those who see me and get to know me will appreciate me for the good person i know i am. I can't go into details; just that it's harder now after almost 30 yrs.I have always been a naive and trusting person.
But even with what that may cost, i would not have it any other way.I'm starting with a course - really cautious :-).
Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 20:42:34
In reply to Re: Lost years » BenzosSSRIsohMY!, posted by Squiggles on August 19, 2007, at 20:29:47
I know the feeling.
The longer you feel well, however, the more in touch you will hopefully become with your past (and your future).
You may begin to see events in the past in a new light, and past events may start to make more sence to you.
Even though you may have experienced life in an unwell state of mind, you will still have those memories, they will eventually become a part of you again.
Linkadge
Posted by Amandafran on August 19, 2007, at 20:51:27
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 20:42:34
The problem is that I dont want those memories. I want to fix them and I cant. I have spent many years without friends because of who I am..and no one liked me for me...and I never knew what was wrong with me...I liked me for me..but then started to hate myself because everyone else did. I spent so long with no friends..and even now...now that I know what is going on with me...Im still friendless. I live with 2 dogs and a Kitten and they are my only friends.. I have gotten to where I dont even want to have kids because I dont want to pass on any traits of mine...I dont want my kid to have the same problems I have had. I was adopted and no nothing about my birth family and my mom's condition at the time I was born and that would help me out a lot if I could figure it out. But my relationships with my friends and family have been torn up through the years...my mom and I dont get along...(we do now...now that she knows for a fact that I am "sick") that I have a label stuck to myself. She treats me very delicatly..which is kind of nice since we have spent 27 years fighting with one another.
I want to be able to change my past...to go back and explain to people what went wrong...and to fix things but I cant..and that is what upsets me. IN case you cant tell, I have a hard time letting go of things...and change is really hard for me ..even if it is for the good.
I have spent my entire life sick....not only mentally but I am good at being sick. I dont know how to be well. Does that make sense?
> I know the feeling.
>
> The longer you feel well, however, the more in touch you will hopefully become with your past (and your future).
>
> You may begin to see events in the past in a new light, and past events may start to make more sence to you.
>
> Even though you may have experienced life in an unwell state of mind, you will still have those memories, they will eventually become a part of you again.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by twinch42085 on August 19, 2007, at 20:51:51
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 20:42:34
I commend you on that post. Those are really deep thoughts. They help me on the up most.
: )
Twinch
Posted by Squiggles on August 19, 2007, at 20:52:39
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 20:42:34
Thanks linkadge -- sounds interesting;
sort of like a reconstitution of historical
events; looking forward to more weltenschauungs;
it's time we market these things in our day and
age --- a new currency :-)Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 23:01:54
In reply to Re: Lost years » linkadge, posted by Amandafran on August 19, 2007, at 20:51:27
>The problem is that I dont want those memories. >I want to fix them and I cant. I have spent many >years without friends because of who I am..and >no one liked me for me...and I never knew what >was wrong with me...I liked me for me..but then >started to hate myself because everyone else >did. I spent so long with no friends..and even >now...now that I know what is going on with >me...Im still friendless.
Perhaps therapy can help the situation? I have found that group therapy can be very benificial, and can bring one closer to people who are in similar situations.
I am not the authority on how to make friends, unfortunately, but if you're ever in the area you're welcome for tea. (we can make that virtual tea if you like)
>I live with 2 dogs and a Kitten and they are my >only friends.. I have gotten to where I dont >even want to have kids because I dont want to >pass on any traits of mine...I dont want my kid >to have the same problems I have had.I know the feeling. I don't want kids for the same reason. If you can find the help you need, then maybe you will feel that life is worth living even if it means taking meds.
>I was adopted and no nothing about my birth >family and my mom's condition at the time I was >born and that would help me out a lot if I could >figure it out. But my relationships with my >friends and family have been torn up through the >years...my mom and I dont get along...(we do >now...now that she knows for a fact that I >am "sick") that I have a label stuck to myself.I know how such illnesses can tear families apart. I do know that such wounds can mend though. It can be hard to trust others when you cannot predict your own behavior.
>I want to be able to change my past...to go back >and explain to people what went wrong...and to >fix things but I cant..and that is what upsets >me. IN case you cant tell, I have a hard time >letting go of things...and change is really hard >for me ..even if it is for the good.
Hopefully, you can find ways to accept what happened. Sometimes it is only when you feel better than you recognize what was wrong. If you believe you have had a real problem, you may find it easier to forgive yourself.
>I have spent my entire life sick....not only >mentally but I am good at being sick. I dont >know how to be well. Does that make sense?
It does.
Linakdge
Posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 23:19:12
In reply to Re: Lost years » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on August 19, 2007, at 20:52:39
Well, its the way I feel about myself sometimes.
Its hard to recover when you have felt so much pain. It is hard to try and make something positive out of something so negative.
I don't think that the pain of depression will ever be justified, but it does seem that an inseperable part of the recovery process is that painful past memories will inevitably take a place where they cannot control ones future.
Linkadge
Posted by Squiggles on August 20, 2007, at 7:20:50
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by linkadge on August 19, 2007, at 23:19:12
People can be remarkably resilient to emotional shock, until they crack. Then they have to recover, and depression sometimes sets in before recovery can take place. There may be factors that make recovery very difficult-- age, number of previous traumas in your life, condition of physical, mental health when you experience the pesent trauma, severity of the shock and lack or prsence of social support. Also, i think some people are born more resilient to emotional shock than others.
But in general, the tendency to forget past experiences on an emotional level and place them on a rational or cognitive one after some time, seems to be ingrained in human nature.
Still, these memories can leave a bitter taste if you like, and the less you experience if them, the more capable you are of experiencing happiness. The current practice of psychotherapy that digs at old scars, seems to be to be like removing a healing scab that has covered the painful wound. In brainwashing, all kinds of painful experiences can be uncovered to erode personal stealth. It's not a good thing at all, imho. It's like "1984" where you can betray anyone, expose anyone and break down yourself, under enough stressful analysis and psychological games. It can happen to anyone. Better let sleeping dogs lie-- that's the natural healing process.
Squiggles
Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:31:46
In reply to Re: Lost years » linkadge, posted by Squiggles on August 20, 2007, at 7:20:50
I do believe what you are saying. Everybody has their breaking point.
I'm just saying that those who recover can, in one way or another put such pain behind them.
Linkadge
Posted by fuzz54 on August 20, 2007, at 12:16:51
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:31:46
I spent 28 years as a lonely rejected person. I had terrible anxiety, but didn't really know it since I assumed everyone had anxiety like me but found a way to be normal. The depressions started as soon as I left college to get out into the world. I had a degree in engineering and absolutely no desire to be an engineer after a few years of work. Take that coupled with social anxiety, generalized anxiety, anhedonia, and more severe and freqeunt depressions and that's a recipe for disaster. I did a lot of the research and soul searching that many people here did or are doing. I went into therapy and started to realize that I had indeed "lost" the last 28 years of my life to psychological disease. Finally I came to the end of my road and was at the bottom of a bottomless pit with a pin prick of light up top. That little bit of hope hanging way up above me seemed maybe as far as away as the moon. I realized then that I had a choice to make and if I was going to choose to go back up into the light then I was going to have to do anything and everything I could to change my life and myself. I was determined to stick with it through therapy, meds, behavorial changes, etc... for as long as it took. I learned to be patient and do the three steps forward, two steps back dance. Three years later I am thinking about getting married and starting a family. That was unthinkable and not even a possiblity three years ago. The last 28 years are still with me, but they have given me a strength and sensitivity that I think only comes from profound suffering. That's a valuable thing to have going into the next 60 years of life. The point I'm getting at is that your past might not be happy or what you wanted (you are rare and blessed if you can say it was), but it comes with you as you get better. And as Linkadge pointed out, you probably will see it in a different light someday and sift through your past to find the diamonds buried in all the dirt.
Posted by jhj on August 21, 2007, at 1:20:42
In reply to Re: Lost years-amandafran » jhj, posted by Amandafran on August 19, 2007, at 10:28:58
HiI have not felt worse at all.In fact,i feel happy for you that you have finally get rid of this horrible thing.I just wanted to say that you have plenty of time to live your life and plenty of fruitful years ahead of you. I meant that forget what happened in the past yeras like nightmare and live a new life full of promise.All the best.
Posted by jhj on August 21, 2007, at 1:31:05
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2007, at 10:31:46
If i ever come out of depression and anxiety,i would not want to recall any of things happened in the past.I do not think i can ever get rid of bitterness that this thing has happened to me only.
Posted by jhj on August 21, 2007, at 1:38:03
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by fuzz54 on August 20, 2007, at 12:16:51
HiI have social anxiety,GAD and dysthymia.I would certainly like to know those therapies,meds and behavioural changes that made you get rid of it.Well,whenever i take a new med,i am absolutely confident that it is not going to work and every time i have been right.
Posted by belljar on August 21, 2007, at 9:10:05
In reply to Lost years, posted by Amandafran on August 18, 2007, at 22:22:03
Hey Amandafran
You are awesome - and 28 is the best time to "start your life". At 43, I look back and feel the same things you're feeling - and I try to think that instead I will just make it batter starting today...
I do regret that I spent my 20s and 30s worrying about it - 40 arrives either way, so you may as well just enjoy everyday.
SPeaking of relatinships - I gave up on the idea of ever finding one, when I was 34. I was angry, frustrated, bitter..... went to visit a friend, had an argument with a guyfriend of hers - and married him a year later. Had a baby at 36. And guess what, I still ahvent found a drug that helps me, I'm still all over the place, but I have a beautiful daughter and a husband who hates my ticks and noises and binges and temper tantrums but puts up with them anyways, says "he loves me"... You just never know. The twenties are a messed up decade. Just look forward to your thirties.
It'll be ok.
Belljar
Posted by fuzz54 on August 21, 2007, at 9:11:37
In reply to Re: Lost years-fuzz54, posted by jhj on August 21, 2007, at 1:38:03
>
> Hi
>
> I have social anxiety,GAD and dysthymia.I would certainly like to know those therapies,meds and behavioural changes that made you get rid of it.Well,whenever i take a new med,i am absolutely confident that it is not going to work and every time i have been right.
There was no magic bullet for my anxiety, GAD, and dysthymia. Therapy (talk and group) was very helpful in helping me understand myself, but I still felt "off". Then I decided I had to start changing or I would just keep repeating the same patterns so I used the reduction in anxiety I got from Paxil to help/make myself confront some of the things that I never could before (healthy romantic relationships and self confidence). That was soooo hard, but after 3 years of it things got easier and my mind didn't fight me so hard. It was a long path and I still have hard times every week. But the three years of the hardest work I have ever done mentally / emotionally was worth everything that I went through.I think the key for me was realizing that meds and therapy would help me, but they couldn't do the hard work of pushing myself to change for the better. Finding the motivation and patience to make life changes is the key and that comes from different places for different people. Initially things were harder for me than if I had done nothing and stayed in my rut, but then the hard work paid off years later. Maybe that motivation is out there somewhere for you or maybe you will find it in the future. I never thought I would, but I was wrong and I was at the end of my rope at one or two points.
Posted by jhj on August 21, 2007, at 10:18:12
In reply to Re: Lost years-fuzz54, posted by fuzz54 on August 21, 2007, at 9:11:37
Absolutely correct.But could you have achieved the success if therepy and paxil had not been helpful? well,you should consider yourself very lucky.Paroxetine or paxil is perhaps the most horrible drug i have ever taken in my life.I have tried all sorts of therapy and atleast 20 different drugs but i have yet to find a drug which improves my anxiety or depression by even one percent.They are like dummy pills except for the fact that dummy pills do not give you any adverse effect while these drugs give you all sorts of side effects and paxil is easily the worst.I agree there is no magic bullet but,i have been toiling to find even ordinary bullet for almost fifteen years.
Posted by Amandafran on August 21, 2007, at 10:48:18
In reply to Re: Lost years, posted by belljar on August 21, 2007, at 9:10:05
Thank you for that post. I am looking for the person who will love me for me...everything about me..and that is hard...(Im not really "looking" per say...but that is what Im hoping for. I just feel like no one notices me..yet Im not really putting myself out there either. I also feel that no one should have to deal with someone like me. (which I know is a bad thing to feel) but I have felt that since I have been so unstable...it is like walking on egg shells with me..and why would any guy want to put up with that? So...that being said..it is going to take a really wonderful person to accept me for who I am both on the inside and out. I have been rejected all my life and so it is going to take forever for me to find someone..that is why I am hoping that they will find me. :)
Take Care.
Hey Amandafran
>
> You are awesome - and 28 is the best time to "start your life". At 43, I look back and feel the same things you're feeling - and I try to think that instead I will just make it batter starting today...
>
> I do regret that I spent my 20s and 30s worrying about it - 40 arrives either way, so you may as well just enjoy everyday.
>
> SPeaking of relatinships - I gave up on the idea of ever finding one, when I was 34. I was angry, frustrated, bitter..... went to visit a friend, had an argument with a guyfriend of hers - and married him a year later. Had a baby at 36. And guess what, I still ahvent found a drug that helps me, I'm still all over the place, but I have a beautiful daughter and a husband who hates my ticks and noises and binges and temper tantrums but puts up with them anyways, says "he loves me"... You just never know. The twenties are a messed up decade. Just look forward to your thirties.
>
> It'll be ok.
>
>
> Belljar
Posted by fuzz54 on August 21, 2007, at 13:32:38
In reply to Re: Lost years-fuzz54, posted by jhj on August 21, 2007, at 10:18:12
>
> Absolutely correct.But could you have achieved the success if therepy and paxil had not been helpful?I think I could have been succesful without the paxil, but it would have taken longer and been much harder. Therapy was working for me to understand myself, but it didn't really lower my anxiety levels too much. The trick was to find a way to keep the depression away long enough that my brain chemistry and hardwired thought process started to change away from a depression prone state. The meds and personal efforts on analyzing and changing how I think (aka CBT) helped me keep me from having any prolonged severe depressions. I found that I was less and less of a depressed person in general as time went on. S******l ideation slowly went away over the course of 3 years. Anxiety is still present in my daily life, but it is maybe %60 reduced from what it was before treatment.
It sounds like you have treatment resistant anxiety. That's probably a complicated situation that I'm not qualified to talk too much about. However, the three prescription drugs that I have found that reduced my anxiety are SSRI's (paxil and celexa worked, cymbalta and lexapro didn't), Benzo's (Klonopin and Xanax worked), and Lamictal. I took the Lamictal even though I wasn't diagnosed bipolar. It helped a great deal with anxiety but at the expense of a much narrower emotional range. I was almost too stable on the Lamictal, but it was great at numbing me from the emotional pain of my past long enough for me to put the past behind me a bit. I only took it for 4 months but am glad that I did. And as for herbal supplements which almost never work and are fairly mild, I have found Suntheanine, Rosavin, and Valerian root to help when no other herbal supplements have. Again, they are all fairly mild drugs, but you might find some reduction of anxiety on one of those. My girlfriend is helped quite a bit by the Suntheanine when she is having a high anxiety day. It works for me sometimes, but not as well as it does for her.
Also, in the next 10 or 15 years there will finally be some new classes of drugs coming out to combat anxiety and depression. Stuff that works completely different than the SSRIs, Tricyclics, or Benzos. That's a long time to wait, I know, but it gives me hope that we'll eventually find more effective bandaids to help us through the hard times.
Posted by jhj on August 22, 2007, at 3:29:20
In reply to Re: Lost years-jhj, posted by fuzz54 on August 21, 2007, at 13:32:38
That is true.i have social anxiety and GAD and also dysthymia all of which are completely resistant to treatment.I have not tried herbal supplement you have mentioned so far.But,they are anyway not going to help in anxiety of this severity.Otherwise,i have tried all these drugs mentioned by you for extended period of time at very high dose but with no benefit.I agree that there is a hope in future and we have to wait for that.But,i just wanted to say that treatment resistant anxiety and depression can not be overcome by the method suggested by you.I mean in this situation i can not do anything on my own and merely by thinking that i do not want these things anymore,i can not achieve anything.
Posted by fuzz54 on August 22, 2007, at 11:34:24
In reply to Re: Lost years-jhj-fuzz54, posted by jhj on August 22, 2007, at 3:29:20
jhj,
I believe you. That must be an awful situation to be in. Having moderate anxiety for 28 years taught me a lot about what it's like, but to have it severe and treatment resistant is not something I've gone through. I can only imagine what it's like. If you have gone through all of the standard (and probably some off label) anxiety treatments then your anxiety must be due to a different mechanism than is typical. I hope that one of the new treatments coming down the pipeline will work to some degree.
fuzz
Posted by Brody on August 31, 2007, at 12:08:52
In reply to Re: Lost years » linkadge, posted by Amandafran on August 19, 2007, at 20:51:27
From your earlier post: "I was adopted and no nothing about my birth family and my mom's condition at the time I was born and that would help me out a lot if I could figure it out."
Hello Amandafran,
I am happy for you that you have found a treatment that has made you feel better, or as you put it, "normal". I am jumping in here a little late, and I haven't read the entire thread.... I wanted to zero in on that one sentence of yours.
I never wanted to admit that my adoption at birth was anything more than a miniscule factor in the self destructive behavior I imposed upon myself. I think I may have been quite wrong.
Another thread prompted me to do a google search that resulted in the discovery of this webpage:
http://www.terrylarimore.com/PrimalWound.html
It is a 19 page paper from the author of the book: The Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier. She is the mother of an adopted daughter and she has done extensive research into the subject of the emotional issues of babies separated at birth from their mothers, after watching her daughter grow up displaying painful behavior she could not understand.
Reading the excerpt didn't "fix" me (or give me back the lost years) by any stretch, but it has allowed me to recognize and accept this as a very viable source for a lifetime of emotional/social issues which ultimately bloomed into years of major treatment resistant depression. I feel it has helped me to move foward... understand some of the torment and confusion... forgive myself for being "unloveable".
I have recently been greatly helped by a new course of meds (EMSAM, Provigil, Xanax). It has taken about 3 months to get everything "adjusted to fit". This is my first MAOI after many trials with SSRTs, NSRIs and TCAs.
I have also started Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. The CBT has proven helpful, but I could not have done it before getting stabilised on the meds..... I couldn't do anything but feed the horses and mow the lawn, and that was a challenge.
Anyway.... just thought I should refer a fellow adoptee to a resource that helped me immensely.
I hope you are able to find the right course for healing (forgiving yourself?) the past.
All the best, Janet
This is the end of the thread.
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