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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on May 16, 2006, at 20:31:46
Thats what I have heard some people on here say. I took 25mg only for eight months and it made me very tired. Then I had some financial issues, got really jacked up, am taking 300mg per day and dont seem to be as tired. Can someone explain this to me?
Posted by bipolarspectrum on May 16, 2006, at 20:57:45
In reply to Does taking MORE Seroquel make you LESS sedated?, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on May 16, 2006, at 20:31:46
Hi,
I've heard quite a few people say the exact same thing on here many times.... however, with my experience, the opposite happened... I think u should be willing to be flexible in ur dosing and find that which is best for you...
bps> Thats what I have heard some people on here say. I took 25mg only for eight months and it made me very tired. Then I had some financial issues, got really jacked up, am taking 300mg per day and dont seem to be as tired. Can someone explain this to me?
Posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 0:48:31
In reply to Re: Does taking MORE Seroquel make you LESS sedated?, posted by bipolarspectrum on May 16, 2006, at 20:57:45
> Hi,
> I've heard quite a few people say the exact same thing on here many times.... however, with my experience, the opposite happened... I think u should be willing to be flexible in ur dosing and find that which is best for you...
> bps
>
> > Thats what I have heard some people on here say. I took 25mg only for eight months and it made me very tired. Then I had some financial issues, got really jacked up, am taking 300mg per day and dont seem to be as tired. Can someone explain this to me?
You're one of the small population that adjusts to the H1 (antihistamine) effect of Seroquel. Consider yourself lucky! I have never adjusted completely to it. I am trying a 100/900 split dosing and sometimes I can adjust to the 100, sometimes it knocks me out. I can tell you that 900 definately is soporific, no matter how long I've taken it. But its probably true that the total 1000mg of Seroquel that I take would knock out a completely Seroquel-naive person pretty quickly. It's a matter of when I take the bulk of the dose at night -- I find that its H1 effects wear off after 2 half lives, which is about 12 hours, or 3 more than I typically sleep. So I have to arrange to take a dose as early as possible if I need to get up earlier.
Posted by TJO on May 17, 2006, at 5:27:38
In reply to Re: Does taking MORE Seroquel make you LESS sedate » bipolarspectrum, posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 0:48:31
Hi,
I found that the sedating effects started to lessen at 700 to 800 mg, although I still sleep more than I should. I take 400 in the am and 400 in the pm, maybe I should talk to my doc about taking the night dose earlier. Does anyone here have experience with Seroquel causing weight gain?Tam
Posted by llrrrpp on May 17, 2006, at 7:04:48
In reply to Re: Does taking MORE Seroquel make you LESS sedate, posted by TJO on May 17, 2006, at 5:27:38
> Hi,
> I found that the sedating effects started to lessen at 700 to 800 mg, although I still sleep more than I should. I take 400 in the am and 400 in the pm, maybe I should talk to my doc about taking the night dose earlier. Does anyone here have experience with Seroquel causing weight gain?
>
> TamI only take 25 mg for insomnia, and it makes me hungry, even as soon as I get up in the morning.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 7:55:46
In reply to Does taking MORE Seroquel make you LESS sedated?, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on May 16, 2006, at 20:31:46
> Thats what I have heard some people on here say. I took 25mg only for eight months and it made me very tired. Then I had some financial issues, got really jacked up, am taking 300mg per day and dont seem to be as tired. Can someone explain this to me?
The sedating response is non-linear. We are accustomed to assuming that the greater the dose, the greater the effect, but there are exceptions. This is one such exception.
At lower doses, there is that familiar increasing dose/increasing effect pattern, but that changes as you near or exceed the saturation dose for the (presumably) histamine receptors in your brain. If you were to look at a graph of dose against drowsy response, it would actually look something like the traditional bell curve. In the literature, it's called an inverted-U dose response curve.
So at lower but increasing doses, your response i.e. drowsiness, also increases. You're climbing up the left side of the bell curve. At some point, as you approach the saturation point for your receptors, the response levels off. You've reached the maximum, the highest point on the bell curve. There may or may not be some sort of plateau at the top, but, with even greater doses, you start to fall down the right side of the bell curve.
It can be a dramatic fall, or it can be gradual. Everybody is different, and one person may saturate at a very different dose than does the next guy. But, once you get to a high enough dose, your brain simply ignores the signal coming from its saturated receptors. It's as if your brain realizes there's something totally messed with those receptors, and it invalidates their function entirely.
Over time, your brain can adapt to this effect, so dose adjustments may have to be made. I also want to emphasize that there are other effects of this drug which *do not* follow this inverted U dose responsivity. Most of the drug effects are dose-proportional, the way we normally think about drug effects.
Lar
Posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on May 17, 2006, at 12:37:04
In reply to Re: Does taking MORE Seroquel make you LESS sedated? » UgottaHaveHOPE, posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 7:55:46
So I took 25mg of Seroquel for eight months and it worked great. Then I had a personal issue that got me upset, and 25mg wouldn't calm me down any longer. So I went up to 300mg ... and it is making me sleep, but I am not as sedated as I was at 25mg.
My question is this: Is my brain now used to 25mg and will no longer be able to go back and use this level with any effectiveness? Or will I have to keep going up in Seroquel? And is there a point where my receptors are used to any level of Seroquel, therefore it is not effective at all? What happens then? Do I have to take another drug with it to make it work?
Thanks for your terrific inputs. Please explain in laymen's terms. Thanks, Michael
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 17, 2006, at 13:30:50
In reply to Larry, let me ask you this, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on May 17, 2006, at 12:37:04
> My question is this: Is my brain now used to 25mg and will no longer be able to go back and use this level with any effectiveness? Or will I have to keep going up in Seroquel? And is there a point where my receptors are used to any level of Seroquel, therefore it is not effective at all? What happens then? Do I have to take another drug with it to make it work?
I have no idea. And I don't anybody else does, either. Some things in life can only be determined by doing the experiment. My hunch would be that you might need 50 now. That's purely a guess.
> Thanks for your terrific inputs. Please explain in laymen's terms. Thanks, Michael
I think my answer may disappoint, but it is my best answer. You're very welcome.
Lar
Posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 17:06:13
In reply to Larry, let me ask you this, posted by UgottaHaveHOPE on May 17, 2006, at 12:37:04
> So I took 25mg of Seroquel for eight months and it worked great. Then I had a personal issue that got me upset, and 25mg wouldn't calm me down any longer. So I went up to 300mg ... and it is making me sleep, but I am not as sedated as I was at 25mg.
>
> My question is this: Is my brain now used to 25mg and will no longer be able to go back and use this level with any effectiveness? Or will I have to keep going up in Seroquel? And is there a point where my receptors are used to any level of Seroquel, therefore it is not effective at all? What happens then? Do I have to take another drug with it to make it work?
>
> Thanks for your terrific inputs. Please explain in laymen's terms. Thanks, Michael
You might need adjunctive medication such as Lunesta to sleep if you actually gain full "immunity" to the effects at H1, which is unlikely as Seroquel is still at least somewhat soporific to most people by the time you get to the dose you're at. It is probably true as noted that if you went down but not completely off, that you might need 50mg as suggested, but that's just trial and error. If you completely flushed Seroquel out of your system say for a few weeks or a month, the 25mg would probably again cause sleep benefits, most likely, but that varies by the individual.I do adjunctively take Ambien, but its probably more to stay asleep than to go to sleep -- Seroquel at 100/900 split dose (bedtime) will still make me go to sleep. Seroquel also decreases my blood pressure during the day in general which follows since the effects at H1 contribute to orthostatic hypotension (low blood pressure).
-- Jay
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 20:32:09
In reply to Re: Larry, let me ask you this » UgottaHaveHOPE, posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 17:06:13
I was given it once to keep me asleep it didn't matter what the dose was I woke up after four hours. Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 21:11:10
In reply to Re: Larry, let me ask you this, posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 20:32:09
> I was given it once to keep me asleep it didn't matter what the dose was I woke up after four hours. Love Phillipa
Has this happened also with Benadryl, Atarax, Phenergan or similar antihistamines ?
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 21:57:27
In reply to Re: Larry, let me ask you this » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 21:11:10
I only took benadryl once for bee stings and all it did was make me feel sleepy in the middle of the day. Love Phillipa ps have you talked with Ed lately? I haven't heard a word from him.
Posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 23:31:39
In reply to Re: Larry, let me ask you this » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 21:57:27
> I only took benadryl once for bee stings and all it did was make me feel sleepy in the middle of the day. Love Phillipa ps have you talked with Ed lately? I haven't heard a word from him.
No, I haven't heard from him personally... hasn't he posted -- there's a post today ?
Ahh -- was just curious if you were somehow "immune" to H1 (antihistamine) induced sleep, since those all have that in common.
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 23:54:07
In reply to Re: Larry, let me ask you this » Phillipa, posted by yxibow on May 17, 2006, at 23:31:39
Jay so I'm not? Love Jan
Posted by yxibow on May 18, 2006, at 13:06:49
In reply to Re: Larry, let me ask you this » yxibow, posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 23:54:07
> Jay so I'm not? Love Jan
No, it was just an un-scientific curiosity really. No worries, Jan. :)
Oral benadryl makes me loopy, I dont remember the last time I actually took it... years ago for sleep.
This is the end of the thread.
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