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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by pseudoname on May 8, 2006, at 17:59:56
I told her about me going to Dr Bob's APA workshop in Toronto. She thought it was terrific that I'm doing that. (I'm getting out of the house, for one thing.) She said she wished she could go. I said a lot of pdocs seem to discourage their patients from online groups like Babble. She said that's because they're afraid it will cut into their business. I think she was serious.
I told her I was trying to start a web page with buprenorhpine information. Her face kind of lit up at that. She thought that was a good idea, too.
We disagreed bigtime though, on my decades of depression, especially the last 12 years, during which I've been essentially unemployed, out of school, never in a romantic/sexual relationship, not in a social group, losing money, not doing much self-education or self-care, accomplishing very little, and losing my friends. Plus spending a huge percentage of the time in physical agony from depression.
She said my life was incalculably richer for the experience.
I say if I went to grad school tomorrow, I'd still be 20 years behind in my professional development. She said that if I go to grad school now I'll have all this depth of insight and that my career may be far more rewarding now because of all that.
She said I needed 12 years to germinate and “get ready.”
To which I say, b*llsh*t.
I think ONE YEAR of depression and the related losses would be more than enough to give me “insight.” The rest of the time added nothing. I was plenty “ready” to be better in 1995. I'm pretty sure the buprenorphine would've worked then, and my psychological views were oriented then so that I would've jumped at ACT therapy, if I had found out about it then instead of 10 years later.
I think sometimes loss is just loss. I'm 41, and I've been depressed since I was in high school. There isn't any wisdom it gave me that was worth more than half my life. (And even though I'm getting better I'm STILL depressed.) I wish I'd asked her, “Why are you so afraid to acknowledge loss?”
Posted by Racer on May 8, 2006, at 19:53:11
In reply to Saw my pdoc today, posted by pseudoname on May 8, 2006, at 17:59:56
While I agree with you about not needing 12 years away from a satisfying life, I'm also betting your pdoc was on the "if it can't be cured, it must be endured" wagon-train when she said that. I think that if she thought about it and was honest, she'd tell you that it completely [you know] that you've had to go through this, and it would be great to climb into the Way Back Machine, and let you avoid all the misery you've endured.
Problem is, of course, that you can't go back, so you have to look at what is left. As a contemporary of yours, who's got her own stories about what she's lost to depression, I know how hard that can be. There's no question, and I would like to slug any Pollyanna who tries to tell me otherwise. But, no matter what we've lost, we still have to decide if we're going to give up on what is left.
If you're interested in my latest discovery of loss, I am willing to babblemail you about it in confidence. Trust me -- we lose out on a lot, and it does diminish our lives.
But the buprenorphine page sounds like a great idea. I hope you do it, and I hope it helps you.
Posted by Deneb on May 8, 2006, at 20:15:30
In reply to Saw my pdoc today, posted by pseudoname on May 8, 2006, at 17:59:56
> I told her about me going to Dr Bob's APA workshop in Toronto. She thought it was terrific that I'm doing that. (I'm getting out of the house, for one thing.)
My pdoc said it was a step forward for me to go on the Babble trip. It brings me closer to socializing like a "normal" person. I too, don't have any close friends and don't go out much....but it's not because I'm depressed. I've had social anxiety for so long that now that it's better, I don't know *how* to socialize.
I feel like I've wasted my life too. I should have graduated last year, but now I need to do another year to graduate. I'm 2 years behind. I screwed up my grades big time, no grad school for me. I would be happy to have a job that isn't too stressful, pays above minimum wage and that has benefits. Then I would do exciting and fun things in my spare time...like astronomy.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on May 8, 2006, at 20:19:44
In reply to Re: Saw my pdoc today » pseudoname, posted by Deneb on May 8, 2006, at 20:15:30
My pdoc said it was a step forward for me to go on the Babble trip.
Should read:
My pdoc said it *would be* a step forward for me to go on the Babble trip.
LOL, the Babble trip has played out in my head many times, but it hasn't happened yet. LOL
Deneb*
Posted by Bonnie_CA on May 8, 2006, at 22:51:37
In reply to Saw my pdoc today, posted by pseudoname on May 8, 2006, at 17:59:56
I think your doctor is just trying to help you see the bright side of things. This is what I always do, so I recognized it right away.
No matter what happens, there is always a bright side. It may seem dim in comparison to the pile of crap you're dealing with, but there's always a bright side. That sucks that you lost 12 years. But just think... you could still be suffering now. You could still be in the same position you were years ago. You could have not discovered medicine, and still be depressed. It's best to just look to the future instead of worry about the time that has passed.
It's so much easier said than done, but there really is a bright side to every story. Do not forget that it is NEVER too late to go back to school. Go to grad school. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing (being behind your peers in professional development). For all they know, you could have been in the military, or taking care of a sick relative for 12 years. It doesn't matter! All that matters is that you desire to earn a higher degree, and now is the time, right? :D
But this is all coming from someone who primarily suffers from anxiety disorder, not depression. I just thought I'd share how I look at things, in hopes that maybe it will make you feel better.
-Bonnie
Posted by pseudoname on May 9, 2006, at 0:20:28
In reply to Saw my pdoc today, posted by pseudoname on May 8, 2006, at 17:59:56
I just re-read my opening post and it sounded like I was waaaay in the dumps, having a pity party. I didn't mean it that way, and I wish I'd framed it better. (But thanks to those who lent support & cheer anyway. That's appreciated.)
I don't bemoan my losses so much these days. I do in fact see more silver linings scattered around, and I find it easier to notice the benefits I do have, and more frequently all the time now I get the perspective that my worst problems in many areas are relatively pretty benign.
And compared to the lives of some of our fellow humans, of course, my losses are on a different plane.
I guess I was just struck by the difference between my attitude, which is that loss can be just loss and recognized by itself, and my pdoc's, which seems *rigidly* optimistic to me. I don't see the benefit of denying a loss or pretending that there's some kind of equivalent gain when there isn't.
Thanks to everyone who replied.
Posted by Racer on May 9, 2006, at 1:28:51
In reply to dialing it back at bit… ;-), posted by pseudoname on May 9, 2006, at 0:20:28
Actually, I agree with you. And that sort of almost pathological optimism irritates the you-know-what out of me.
I think that sometimes the healthiest thing is to be able to say that a loss IS a loss, and there is NO backhanded benefit to it. Sometimes, life ain't fair, and sometimes life ain't fun -- and sometimes we don't even learn anything from that...
Take good care, Pseudoname. When I get my very own Way Back Machine, I'll take you for a ride. I promise.
Posted by pseudoname on May 9, 2006, at 7:27:38
In reply to Well, when you put it that way... » pseudoname, posted by Racer on May 9, 2006, at 1:28:51
> When I get my very own Way Back Machine, I'll take you for a ride.
Awesome!! :-D
Posted by Jost on May 9, 2006, at 20:58:28
In reply to Saw my pdoc today, posted by pseudoname on May 8, 2006, at 17:59:56
>
>
> We disagreed bigtime though, on my decades of depression, especially the last 12 years, during which I've been essentially unemployed, out of school, never in a romantic/sexual relationship, not in a social group, losing money, not doing much self-education or self-care, accomplishing very little, and losing my friends. Plus spending a huge percentage of the time in physical agony from depression.
>
> She said my life was incalculably richer for the experience.
>
> I say if I went to grad school tomorrow, I'd still be 20 years behind in my professional development. She said that if I go to grad school now I'll have all this depth of insight and that my career may be far more rewarding now because of all that.
>
> She said I needed 12 years to germinate and “get ready.”
>
>
> I think sometimes loss is just loss. I'm 41, and I've been depressed since I was in high school. There isn't any wisdom it gave me that was worth more than half my life. (And even though I'm getting better I'm STILL depressed.) I wish I'd asked her, “Why are you so afraid to acknowledge loss?”Your psych doctor might have been romanticizing suffering-- rather than being pollyanna-ish-- you know, thinking it makes you deeper--
I don't really agree with that, but at least it's an ennobling rather than demeaning view of people's struggles, and as such forgiveable.
She might also see ways that you've grown and learned during those 12 years, that don't see or aren't taking account of. The years weren't just "depression" --they were a life that unfortunately was sadder or harder than it could/should have been, but not useless or empty.
As for grad school, professions move on, but you won't be behind, you'll be wherever you are. You'll have the ideas and projects that you have, which will be exciting or worthwhile-- It might be a loss you'll have to deal with, starting later, but more than compensated for by the gain of doing it.
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on May 9, 2006, at 21:27:03
In reply to Re: Saw my pdoc today, posted by Jost on May 9, 2006, at 20:58:28
And don't forget there is no age thing in going back to school. People retire and go back to school. Don't they say you will have around seven careers or jobs in you life? From nursing to fixing up and selling houses for a profit now that's a change. Good luck in what you choose to do. Love Phillipa
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