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Posted by zeugma on November 12, 2005, at 12:56:00
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » qbsbrown, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2005, at 12:10:20
> Hi Brian
>
> Some people on p-babble (such as Zeugma) have reported that psycho-stimulants such as Ritalin and Dexedrine/Adderall have relieved DP/DP. Zeugma does find that Ritalin aggravates his anxiety though, even though it relieves his DP/DP. Not everyone suffers increased anxiety on stimulants though, a few people even find them anxiolytic, especially Dexedrine.Hi Ed (and Brian),
Yes, Ritalin definitely relieves DP/DR even as it makes me tremble uncontrollably with anxiety. My DP is definitely a perceptual deficit of some kind. The locus of self-perception is in the temporo-parietal junction and Ritalin stimulates that region, while benzodiazepines, antidepressants, and miscellaneous drugs do nothing there. I know my DP is not produced by anxiety as I experience it on its own, just as I know my anxiety is not caused by depression, as I have experienced anxious states in the absence of depression. But I don't doubt you when you say your DP is anxiety-related. I have to say that the DP is at a lower level when my anxiety is controlled. It is more a feeling of bodily numbing and not being completely 'there' which persists, not the full-fledged feeling of 'nothingness' that severe DP produces.
-z
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2005, at 13:41:20
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on November 12, 2005, at 12:56:00
Hi Z
I'm still wondering whether you'd be better served by Dexedrine than Ritalin!
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by zeugma on November 12, 2005, at 18:23:38
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2005, at 13:41:20
Hi again Ed,
I think DP/DR is somewhere in that vague spectrum of 'negative symptoms' which are common (more or less) to schizophrenia and severe depression, and which are known to be (in the case of schizophrenia) responsive to stimulants but at the cost of exacerbating positive symptoms. I experienced some relief, much more mild than I received from Ritalin, when i increased the Provigil dose to 300 mg. Unfortunately, my insurance will only cover 200 mg, so that experiment has come to an end.
I did feel more social on 300 mg, and also less socially anxious. But that could be because I felt more awake at 6 pm, and less in a stumbling haze. The DP is really a physical feeling of not being there at all, unsettling like a dream from which you're completely absent.
I think my best hope os when Sparlon comes out early next year. It's just Provigil but in higher doses. Hopefully I can get my insurance to cover it.
-z
Posted by ed_uk on November 13, 2005, at 10:38:36
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on November 12, 2005, at 18:23:38
Hi Z
>I think DP/DR is somewhere in that vague spectrum of 'negative symptoms' which are common (more or less) to schizophrenia and severe depression, and which are known to be (in the case of schizophrenia) responsive to stimulants but at the cost of exacerbating positive symptoms.
How did perphenazine affect your DP/DR? Did it make it worse? I wonder what a dopamine agonist would do..... (unfortunately, dopamine agonists sometimes cause 'sleep attacks' - notably ropinirole and pramipexole)
>Unfortunately, my insurance will only cover 200 mg, so that experiment has come to an end.
We have generic modafinil in the UK now, 100mg and 200mg tablets. Do you have the generic in the US yet? It might be a lot cheaper.
>I think my best hope os when Sparlon comes out early next year. It's just Provigil but in higher doses.
What strengths of tablet will Sparlon come as?
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by zeugma on November 13, 2005, at 12:06:25
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on November 13, 2005, at 10:38:36
Hi Ed
>
> >I think DP/DR is somewhere in that vague spectrum of 'negative symptoms' which are common (more or less) to schizophrenia and severe depression, and which are known to be (in the case of schizophrenia) responsive to stimulants but at the cost of exacerbating positive symptoms.
>
> How did perphenazine affect your DP/DR? Did it make it worse? I wonder what a dopamine agonist would do..... (unfortunately, dopamine agonists sometimes cause 'sleep attacks' - notably ropinirole and pramipexole)It's very hard to say how perphenazine affected DP/DR. First, the dose of perphenazine was way too high -mean dose around 32 mg, with 48 mg reached at one point. At these doses it caused incredible fatigue. However, I think perphenazine had an anxiolytic effect that lessened the manifestations. It didm't affect the core symptom of feeling detached from my body. I do remember perphenazine being anxiolytic- until it made me so sleepy that anxiolysis was beside the point. FWIW, I tolerated perphenazine better than molindone, spoken highly of by some here. That's not to say I cared for either. I also required a lot of Cogentin to manage the EPS, which set in immediately. perphenazine did have one favorable property- it was antipanic by lessening sensations of nausea, which tended to trigger panic attacks reliably.(That is why I had panic attacks when taking SSRI's.)
> >Unfortunately, my insurance will only cover 200 mg, so that experiment has come to an end.
>
> We have generic modafinil in the UK now, 100mg and 200mg tablets. Do you have the generic in the US yet? It might be a lot cheaper.
>I don't think modafinil is available in the U.S. as generic yet. From what I have heard Cephalon has it on patent in the U.S. until next year (very convenient since Sparlon is coming out). .
> >I think my best hope os when Sparlon comes out early next year. It's just Provigil but in higher doses.
>
> What strengths of tablet will Sparlon come as?
>It will come at a starting dose of 85 mg, with target doses of 340 and 425 mg. (Can't remember the intermediate dosages offhand.)From my experience, 340 mg would be about right.
BTW, I took 30 mg Ritalin instead of Provigil today. Less DP :-)
-z
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
Posted by qbsbrown on November 13, 2005, at 17:04:26
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on November 13, 2005, at 12:06:25
Well Ed, after further consideration w/ my doc, im going back to ole trusty paxil for me. It has worked great in the past. There goes my sex life. Does welbutrin help counter the sexual side effects? Although it is terrible for people w/ anxiety i hear. Might have to do the viagra thing, sigh, im only 28.
As far as DP/DR is concerned, i am a frequent visitor of dpselfhelp.com, the biggest community around.
There currently is no treatment for the disorder. Some have had sucess w/ ssri + lamictal, and klonopin helps many.
There is currently a big investigation going on right now, and i know from an inside source that the intention of the surveys, is to get permission to try OPIATE ANTAGONISTS (namely naltrexone)in studies.
I know that mine is anxeity based, as are most. Seems that 50 percent got it after a big panic attack, and the other 50 from drugs. So obviously the brain is dissasociating from the extreme stress. It is on self defense 24/7, everything become a threat. For me w/ DR, the environment feels and seems extremely odd. Huge perceptual shifts.
So although it was anxeity based, doesn't mean that my chemistry hasn't changed in other parts of the brain that ssris can't touch.
So tryin to hang in there til there is an effective treatment out.Regards,
Brain
Posted by ed_uk on November 14, 2005, at 12:50:06
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on November 13, 2005, at 12:06:25
Hi Z :-)
>the dose of perphenazine was way too high
Understatement of the year ;-)
>FWIW, I tolerated perphenazine better than molindone, spoken highly of by some here.
How did you find molindone? Btw, who speaks highly of it? I've never known anyone on babble to take molindone.
What was the lowest dose of perphenazine you ever took? How did you find it?
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 14, 2005, at 12:54:05
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial??, posted by qbsbrown on November 13, 2005, at 17:04:26
Hi Brian
>Well Ed, after further consideration w/ my doc, im going back to ole trusty paxil for me. It has worked great in the past. There goes my sex life.
I took paroxetine 40mg for a few years. I find 80mg citalopram produces similar benefit to 40mg paroxetine. I do find citalopram somewhat 'milder' though.
>naltrexone
Are you interested in trying naltrexone?
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by zeugma on November 16, 2005, at 17:45:15
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » zeugma, posted by ed_uk on November 14, 2005, at 12:50:06
> Hi Z :-)
Hi Ed :-)>
> >the dose of perphenazine was way too high
>
> Understatement of the year ;-)
>
> >FWIW, I tolerated perphenazine better than molindone, spoken highly of by some here.
>
> How did you find molindone? Btw, who speaks highly of it? I've never known anyone on babble to take molindone.
>
Chairman MAO has spoken highly of it. I apparently didn't tolerate molindone at all, as I think I only took a pill or two in the hospital before I was switched to perphenazine. A low dose of perphanazine no doubt is good for my panic attacks, many of which are triggered by severe nausea. Nortriptyline has the same steadying effect on my upper GI system without the EPS or extreme sedation (there's another understatement for you).> What was the lowest dose of perphenazine you ever took? How did you find it?
>As implied above, I found an extremely low dose helpful in quelling nausea and panic attacks caused by that. I don't know exactly what the starting dose was.
-z
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 17, 2005, at 13:26:52
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?? » ed_uk, posted by zeugma on November 16, 2005, at 17:45:15
Hi Z :-)
>Chairman MAO has spoken highly of it.
I don't think he's tried it though has he?
>As implied above, I found an extremely low dose helpful in quelling nausea and panic attacks caused by that.
I think you'd find haloperidol (Haldol) similar but less sedating. You might benefit from taking 0.5mg haloperidol on as 'as required' basis for nausea and panic.
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by bigcat on November 19, 2005, at 13:57:07
In reply to Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial??????, posted by qbsbrown on October 31, 2005, at 19:15:35
>I have GAD/Depression/PD, but the worst is the racing thoughts, obsessive thoughts, self monitoring, not being able to get out of head.
Would these be considered "classic" OCD symptoms? They seem to strike at the heart of my problems- totally consumed with monitoring the Self. Racing thoughts of negativity, dispair, dread, and self-loathing. Are there meds that are more apt to specifically target these types of symptoms (I would imagine my lethargy and failure of acting/responding "in the moment"
result from these exhausting/all-consuming symptoms. Would you recommend Anafranil, Luvox, a cocktail, anything else? I basically, word for word, have the same symptoms you describe.
Posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2005, at 14:09:31
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » qbsbrown, posted by bigcat on November 19, 2005, at 13:57:07
Hi Matt
Is there any chance that you might be suffering from bipolar disorder? Has your pdoc discussed this?
Ed
PS. I'm not suggesting that you're bipolar - I'm just wondering whether your pdoc has 'ruled it out'.
Posted by bigcat on November 19, 2005, at 19:51:34
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2005, at 14:09:31
> Hi Matt
>
> Is there any chance that you might be suffering from bipolar disorder? Has your pdoc discussed this?
>
> EdHey Ed,
No, bipolar hasn't been ruled out. In fact, I've had hypomanic reactions upon starting a few meds. When Marplan worked (briefly) after four failed trials, I was definately hypomanic for a couple weeks. A high dose of Dexedrine and VERY potent marijuana mixture made me manic undoubtedly. Upon initializing a new med, I sometimes have a fleeting period of being particularly "up".
But I've never had a spontaneous manic episode (they have all been med-induced), and my mood never changes. I'm always down. Different meds just highlight different aspects of my depression, or help me see it in a different, equally painful and frustrating, light. I'm weary of all the psychiatric diagnosis, and am doubtful that "categorizing" my depression would shed much light on how to relieve it. Lithium, Lamictal, Neurontin, and other mood-stabilizers have never brought any anti-depressant effect. (I'm on Lamictal now). I feel the same one day to the next, never "cycle", and don't have "periods" when my mood brightens or I gain energy or anything like that. I almost wish there were some bipolar in me, so at least I'd be taken out of this abyss once in a while. (I'm sure I'd have a whole heap of other, probably worse problems, though).
I'd welcome and be interested in your input. Do you ask because I have "racing thoughts" of negativity? That would be an interesting perspective. I know OCD was the first manifestation of my psych illness (the depression followed a few years later). I have had clairvoyant moments (usually after smoking a bowl), where it seems that obsessing is at the heart of all my suffering. Like qbsbrown phrased so perfectly, "I can't get out of my head." A loud and cluttered head clouds my thinking and doesn't allow me to live "in the moment". I always watch myself vigilantly like I'm on a stage (what qbsbrown referred to as self-monitoring), and can't have an original thought or insight free from this entrapping obsessive cycle. This endless cycle may therefore contribute to my fatigue and anxiety I suppose???
Thanks Bud,
-matt-
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2005, at 21:03:54
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial??????, posted by bigcat on November 19, 2005, at 19:51:34
Matt, are you rj? Did you change your name? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2005, at 22:09:17
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial??????, posted by bigcat on November 19, 2005, at 19:51:34
Hi Matt
>No, bipolar hasn't been ruled out. In fact, I've had hypomanic reactions upon starting a few meds. When Marplan worked (briefly) after four failed trials, I was definately hypomanic for a couple weeks.
Certain forms of chronic/recurrent unipolar depression may be 'related' to bipolar disorder.
Have any of your family members been diagnosed with a psych disorder?
>Lithium, Lamictal, Neurontin, and other mood-stabilizers have never brought any anti-depressant effect.
Ever taken Depakote, Tegretol or Trileptal?
>Do you ask because I have "racing thoughts" of negativity?
I was wondering whether your depression could be viewed as a depressive mixed state. Probably not. Just an idea.
>"racing thoughts" of negativity....
Many *different* negative thoughts or *repetitive* negative thoughts on the same theme? What do you mean when you say that your thoughts are 'racing'? The negative thoughts which characterise OCD are intensely repetitive. The racing thoughts which characterise bipolar disorder are much less repetitive ie. the 'flight of ideas'.
Are you physically very agitated?
>I know OCD
What sort of OCD did you suffer from? Were you actually diagnosed with OCD?
>I'm weary of all the psychiatric diagnosis....
It's all very confusing. Diagnosis is sometimes a help, sometimes a hinderance.
Regards
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2005, at 22:10:20
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » bigcat, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2005, at 21:03:54
>Matt, are you rj? Did you change your name?
No - completely different Matt. There's a lot of Matt's on p-babble :-)
Ed xxxx
Posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2005, at 23:11:53
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » Phillipa, posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2005, at 22:10:20
Ed what are you doing up so late? Love PJ O
Posted by bigcat on November 20, 2005, at 9:34:18
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on November 19, 2005, at 22:09:17
Hey Ed,
Thanks for replying :)
>
> Have any of your family members been diagnosed with a psych disorder?None have been professionally diagnosed, however from what I understand, my grandmother was depressed in the last years of her life, and my brother is depressed (although he doesn't realize it). I've been hit the worst by far.
> Ever taken Depakote, Tegretol or Trileptal?
Depakote yes (short trial, did nothing). Tegratol or Trileptal no. Are these anticonvulsants with mood-stabilizing properties?
> I was wondering whether your depression could be viewed as a depressive mixed state. Probably not. Just an idea.
No mixed state to my depression. My mood, thought patterns, energy etc. never changes unless a med starts rearranging brain chemistry.> Many *different* negative thoughts or *repetitive* negative thoughts on the same theme?
Repetetive negative thoughts on the same
theme(s). I funnel EVERY outside stimuli and my ensuing response into self-loathing or a re-confirmation of my depression (from the way I tighten up and avert my gaze when passing people, to the way I (fail to) respond in social situations, to the way I spend my afternoon [on the couch]). My brain keeps shouting endlessly "This sucks, this sucks, this sucks." I obsess about the past and the future and how depression has and will effect each. I obsessively worry about everything; the tiniest little minutia. My mind can never wander because I'm so intensely focused and concentrated on my obsessive thought patterns. I can't get out of my head or live and respond "in the moment".
What do you mean when you say that your thoughts are 'racing'? The negative thoughts which characterise OCD are intensely repetitive. The racing thoughts which characterise bipolar disorder are much less repetitive ie. the 'flight of ideas'.
Intensely repetetive and never ceasing, not racing or flighty.
>
> Are you physically very agitated?Yes. I'm always restless. I can't sit still and read a book or play guitar. I wake up very stiff and sore every morning like I ran a marathon the previous day, when in reality I only move from my couch to my bed to my computer chair. I feel like I'm a hypochondriac, but in truth, something is always aching or aggrivated. Even in bed I'm extremely restless.
>
> >I know OCD
>
> What sort of OCD did you suffer from? Were you actually diagnosed with OCD?Classic OCD. Compulsions: I twirwled and pulled out my hair constantly. I would roll my eyes. I picked at my one thumbnail to the point that it is now seriously deformed. I clenched my teeth against my jaw very hard. Most of these compulsions brought this physical pain that I seemed addicted to. Obsessions: Contamination, frightened of "tainted thoughts" entering my mind. Counting numbers (water faucet had to be on for a three count before I could turn it off). While it could be considered anxiety, I would definately classify my worrying as an obsession. I worried horrendously about insignificant things, like unimportant homework, or impending events, or even worrying about the worrying that I would be doing if this or that would happen, or as this or that event creeped closer. My mind REQUIRED something to worry about. I've written about all of these syptoms in the past tense, but much of this continues. I'm less compulsive (though biting the gums and picking at my thumbnail continues), and I no longer have contamination or number counting issues, but the obsessing is still horrendous.
Good questions Ed! Really made me adress some of my issues. My chief obsession is the self-monitoring thing, obsessing about my every action and spoken word. Probably the worst part of my depression is the obsessing about depression. Apart from suffering the symptoms, I relate EVERYTHING towards confirming my state of misery and helplessness. Depression is not only what I have, it is THE ONLY thing I ever think about. Maybe that's common...
Posted by ed_uk on November 20, 2005, at 14:19:03
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » ed_uk, posted by bigcat on November 20, 2005, at 9:34:18
Hi Matt
>Tegretol or Trileptal no. Are these anticonvulsants with mood-stabilizing properties?
Yes, they're mainly used to treat mania and mixed episodes. They may also be effective in reducing the agitation associated with severe depression.
>my brother is depressed
Has your brother ever had anything resembling a manic or hypomanic episode?
Here is a description of 'classic' mania....
(I say 'classic' because it's now recognised that mania can be very unpleasant, rather than euphoric as described here)
Mood is elevated out of keeping with the individual's circumstances and may vary from carefree joviality to almost uncontrollable excitement. Elation is accompanied by increased energy, resulting in overactivity, pressure of speech, and a decreased need for sleep. Normal social inhibitions are lost, attention cannot be sustained, and there is often marked distractability. Self-esteem is inflated, and grandiose or over-optimistic ideas are freely expressed.
Perceptual disorders may occur, such as the appreciation of colours as especially vivid (and usually beautiful), a preoccupation with fine details of surfaces or textures, and subjective hyperacusis. The individual may embark on extravagant and impractical schemes, spend money recklessly, or become aggressive, amorous, or facetious in inappropriate circumstances. In some manic episodes the mood is irritable and suspicious rather than elated.
Here is a description of 'classic' hypomania....
Hypomania is a lesser degree of mania, in which abnormalities of mood and behaviour are too persistent and marked to be included under cyclothymia but are not accompanied by hallucinations or delusions. There is a persistent mild elevation of mood (for at least several days on end), increased energy and activity, and usually marked feelings of well-being and both physical and mental efficiency. Increased sociability, talkativeness, overfamiliarity, increased sexual energy, and a decreased need for sleep are often present but not to the extent that they lead to severe disruption of work or result in social rejection. Irritability, conceit, and boorish behaviour may take the place of the more usual euphoric sociability.
Concentration and attention may be impaired, thus diminishing the ability to settle down to work or to relaxation and leisure, but this may not prevent the appearance of interests in quite new ventures and activities, or mild over-spending.
>OCD
Did you say you tried Anafranil?
>My chief obsession is the self-monitoring thing
Would you say it's a form of social anxiety?
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by bigcat on November 20, 2005, at 20:44:57
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on November 20, 2005, at 14:19:03
> Hi Matt
>
> >Tegretol or Trileptal no. Are these anticonvulsants with mood-stabilizing properties?
>
> Yes, they're mainly used to treat mania and mixed episodes. They may also be effective in reducing the agitation associated with severe depression.
>
> >my brother is depressed
>
> Has your brother ever had anything resembling a manic or hypomanic episode?No, never. He is in somewhat of a catatonic depression. He doesn't really "come through" and can't think of anything to say very often. I know he's depressed, but if asked, he would say he isn't. I feel terribly for him, but he has a life (a job and a girlfreind and DOES things, so he's miles ahead of where I am).
>
> Here is a description of 'classic' mania....
>
> (I say 'classic' because it's now recognised that mania can be very unpleasant, rather than euphoric as described here)
>
> Mood is elevated out of keeping with the individual's circumstances and may vary from carefree joviality to almost uncontrollable excitement. Elation is accompanied by increased energy, resulting in overactivity, pressure of speech, and a decreased need for sleep. Normal social inhibitions are lost, attention cannot be sustained, and there is often marked distractability. Self-esteem is inflated, and grandiose or over-optimistic ideas are freely expressed.
>
> Perceptual disorders may occur, such as the appreciation of colours as especially vivid (and usually beautiful), a preoccupation with fine details of surfaces or textures, and subjective hyperacusis. The individual may embark on extravagant and impractical schemes, spend money recklessly, or become aggressive, amorous, or facetious in inappropriate circumstances. In some manic episodes the mood is irritable and suspicious rather than elated.Yes, I had a manic episode when I was on 90mg's Dexedrine and had smoked the finest grade marijuana I had ever gotten my hands on. It lasted about three hours. I was delusional, grandiose, and euphoric. Something inside me cracked, some marvellously liberating insight. I psychoanalyze the event frequently, and I think the "mania" had something to do with a realization that I had control over my depression and could beat it through thought alone (which now haunts me, because it was the absolute truth at the time, and is inconceivable at present). This was intoxicating and threw me over the edge. I remember marvelling at how air actually felt like it was reaching my lungs and I felt lighter, as if in my normal depressed state I suffer from some kind of suffocation. But this was 100% med-induced. I sometimes have intense reactions to weed, and my true "self" emerges somewhat. This, coupled with a full and inexpressibly liberating remission from the Dexedrine, along with some mind-shattering insights, threw me into a brief manic episode. I thought I had figured the Universe out, I thought I had attained enlightenment, and realized that I was God (more of a philosophical belief based on Buddhism and my one experience tripping on mushrooms). As the mania faded, I was slill slighly euphoric and talkative, and it was hands down the smartest I had ever been. I could understand and be fascinated by anything. I seemed to know much more than I would have ever given myself credit for. I gave the paramedic a dissertation on the history of Western music (from the Blues, to the Beatles, to Bob Marley and beyond) that just slipped out effortlessly, and was somewhat of a masterpiece, weaving all the strings together without missing a note. I can't fathom having that type of mental capacity locked inside me.
>
> Here is a description of 'classic' hypomania....
>
> Hypomania is a lesser degree of mania, in which abnormalities of mood and behaviour are too persistent and marked to be included under cyclothymia but are not accompanied by hallucinations or delusions. There is a persistent mild elevation of mood (for at least several days on end), increased energy and activity, and usually marked feelings of well-being and both physical and mental efficiency. Increased sociability, talkativeness, overfamiliarity, increased sexual energy, and a decreased need for sleep are often present but not to the extent that they lead to severe disruption of work or result in social rejection. Irritability, conceit, and boorish behaviour may take the place of the more usual euphoric sociability.
>
> Concentration and attention may be impaired, thus diminishing the ability to settle down to work or to relaxation and leisure, but this may not prevent the appearance of interests in quite new ventures and activities, or mild over-spending.
>When Marplan worked on my fourth trial, I was hypomanic for a few weeks. Calling old aquaintances out of the blue, over-confident in my abilities, no inhibitions. Hyper-sexualized (depression kills my sex drive).
> >OCD
>
> Did you say you tried Anafranil?
>
VERY briefly (you've been hearing that a lot from me lately, eh? Well (I **hope**) that's been the story of my flawed treatment. It seemed neutral when I was on it. It didn't make me worse or give me any nagging side-effects, but we did NOT give it a fair trial to do it's thing. (Two weeks maybe). I mentioned it because it has been described on these boards as the *Gold Standard* for OCD. I know Luvox also has a rep for cracking down on OCD, and I suppose the SSRI's in general can have OCD-controlling capacities.> >My chief obsession is the self-monitoring thing
>
> Would you say it's a form of social anxiety?
>
Yes, absolutely. However, when I'm alone, I replay the day's events and my miserable failures and humiliations. Or continue to let past events traumatize me. But I monitor the self even when I'm around my parents, where I shouldn't have any social anxiety. I guess I'm just hyper-vigilant, and hyper-aware of how I'm presenting myself to the world. Self-consumed and self-conscious obsessing. That's it. But I obsess about anything and everthing. It's debilitating and fatiguing. I can't think outside of this box. Nothing new can slip in or get released. I hoard worry, shame, and dread and mix them around into thought patterns that always end in "hopeless", "helpless", "desperate", "this illness has and will ruin my life". I have no life outside of the depression. IT IS ME. That's where every seed of a thought MUST finish (only to be recycled when another stimuli sends me down a different course with the same ultimate destination).From what I have written, it would seem a good bet that I have some bipolar in me, but the one mania and the other hypomania, were the only episodes in my entire life that something had noticeably altered my vegetative state. And they were both med-induced. And some of the hypomania could have been because I was thrown into remission suddenly, not gradually, and it was such an unexpected joy to be alive, that I couldn't hold all my love or excitement in.
I'm just severely depressed, And it's chronic, not an "episode". It peaked it's head through at age 8 and progressively got worse until I sought treatment at 18, and it's gotten worse from that point on as well. I'm powerless.> Kind regards
>
> EdYou're Entirely Too Kind Ed :)
-matt-
Posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2005, at 16:30:24
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » ed_uk, posted by bigcat on November 20, 2005, at 20:44:57
Hi Matt
>Yes, I had a manic episode when I was on 90mg's Dexedrine and had smoked the finest grade marijuana I had ever gotten my hands on.
I wouldn't really call that a manic episode - more a drug-induced euphoria!
>Dexedrine
How do you respond to Ritalin?
>I can't fathom having that type of mental capacity locked inside me.
I can - you write so *well* I can hardly get over it.
>When Marplan worked on my fourth trial, I was hypomanic for a few weeks.
I guess you'd be bipolar III according to the latest (and as yet unpublished) edition of the DSM. Still, the diagnosis of unipolar depression might be more appropriate.
>Yes, absolutely. However, when I'm alone, I replay the day's events and my miserable failures and humiliations.
It would be nice to meet you. I bet you come across far better than you think you do.
>It seemed neutral when I was on it. It didn't make me worse or give me any nagging side-effects, but we did NOT give it a fair trial to do it's thing. (Two weeks maybe). I mentioned it because it has been described on these boards as the *Gold Standard* for OCD. I know Luvox also has a rep for cracking down on OCD, and I suppose the SSRI's in general can have OCD-controlling capacities.
Clomipramine might be worth a second try. Despite its side effects, clomipramine can be very effective, both for depression and OCD. It is considered by some to be the most effective AD of all! Clomipramine must never be combined with an MAOI (or taken within 2-3 weeks of one).
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by bigcat on November 21, 2005, at 21:44:58
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2005, at 16:30:24
You keep churning out hope for me, Ed. I was wondering what a "hard-hitting" TCA might be, and Tofranil is one we never explored fully. I'm so impressionable in regards to this board,which is sometimes a good, and sometimes a bad thing. I read a couple posts from long-term med veterans who never found any long-lasting, consistent relief, and I saw myself forty years from now, having only caught peeks and glances of my true self in remission here and there, waiting to die and be released, never having even started a life, just watching all the action go down from the sidelines. I guess I have to accept that this train I've been waiting for may, and may not ever come.
I've been assaulting myself with the idea that I'm "choosing" my destiny, or that I'm addicted to my suffering (have you ever seen "What The Bleep Do We Know?" Watch it if you haven't- VERY interesting). Anyway, hearing you give the Anafrinil a good review gives me a little more hope that I have viable options to try in the event that my current or next med don't work. There is no doubt in my mind that the OCD was a precursor for the depression, so maybe this is a good angle to take. Only a trial will tell.
What I need now is discipline. Patience is impossible and cannot be cultivated at present. But right now what I truly need is the discipline (and balls) to stick with a med even if it makes me much more depressed or anxious at first. There's a storm before the calm maybe.
Hope All Is Well,
-matt-p.s.- I'm still waiting to hear what music YOU like.
Posted by ed_uk on November 23, 2005, at 14:00:55
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » ed_uk, posted by bigcat on November 21, 2005, at 21:44:58
Hi Matt
>I was wondering what a "hard-hitting" TCA might be, and Tofranil is one we never explored fully.
I'd say Anafranil. Definitely one to give a second chance, especially since you didn't seem to have too much of a problem with side effects when you tried it before.
>But right now what I truly need is the discipline (and balls) to stick with a med even if it makes me much more depressed or anxious at first.
Have you decided to try Effexor next?
>I'm still waiting to hear what music YOU like.
LOL, sorry :-) I particularly like baroque music eg. Handel, Correlli. I also love 80s pop music though. Bit of a difference I know ;-)
>I guess I have to accept that this train I've been waiting for may, and may not ever come.
You will accept nothing of the kind! (Yes, I'm bossy)
>balls) to stick with a med even if it makes me much more depressed or anxious at first.
That doesn't generally happen unless you increase the dose too fast (or start at a dose which is much too high).
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by bigcat on November 23, 2005, at 21:35:46
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » bigcat, posted by ed_uk on November 23, 2005, at 14:00:55
Hey Ed,
Yeah, it's the effexor + patience next. I'm taking Risperidal and Lamictal right now, and will probably stay on them during the effexor trial (or experiment somewhat if I think they may be flattening the effects). Iive been taking Ativan for anxiety- placebo effect maybe, but not much noticeable reduction in anxiety.
Baroque music... Hah!. It's very complex and exciting guitar-wise. I learned one of Bach's Bourees a LONG time ago, and it's still my warm-up tune of choice- one of my favorites, and THE song which taught me to drop the pick and play with my fingers. I love the counterpoint between the bassline and the melody note (implying chordal movement). Bach transposes very well to guitar actually, and can even be jazzed up to swing a little. You'd have to talk to my dad about that one. I also learned Bach's "Alemande" a long time back- simple and beautiful melody. Now the 80's pop Ed, that's gonna be a problem we'll have to work through together. I'll be happy to offer my support to see you past this little phase of yours :)
Much Love,
-matt-> Hi Matt
>
> >I was wondering what a "hard-hitting" TCA might be, and Tofranil is one we never explored fully.
>
> I'd say Anafranil. Definitely one to give a second chance, especially since you didn't seem to have too much of a problem with side effects when you tried it before.
>
> >But right now what I truly need is the discipline (and balls) to stick with a med even if it makes me much more depressed or anxious at first.
>
> Have you decided to try Effexor next?
>
> >I'm still waiting to hear what music YOU like.
>
> LOL, sorry :-) I particularly like baroque music eg. Handel, Correlli. I also love 80s pop music though. Bit of a difference I know ;-)
>
> >I guess I have to accept that this train I've been waiting for may, and may not ever come.
>
> You will accept nothing of the kind! (Yes, I'm bossy)
>
> >balls) to stick with a med even if it makes me much more depressed or anxious at first.
>
> That doesn't generally happen unless you increase the dose too fast (or start at a dose which is much too high).
>
> Kind regards
>
> Ed
Posted by ed_uk on November 24, 2005, at 14:15:54
In reply to Re: Lexapro: 10mg vs 20mg. Any more beneficial?????? » ed_uk, posted by bigcat on November 23, 2005, at 21:35:46
Hi Matt
>Yeah, it's the effexor + patience next.
When are you starting Effexor? It would be good to get a prescription for the 37.5mg XR caps. Start low :-)
>I'm taking Risperidal and Lamictal right now
...and Seroquel too?
>Bach transposes very well to guitar actually
Vivaldi works very well on guitar. See...
Tracks one, two and three are from Vivaldi's opus 3. Op.3 No.10 works very well on guitar - it was originally a concerto for 4 violins and cello. Please listen!
>Now the 80's pop Ed, that's gonna be a problem we'll have to work through together. I'll be happy to offer my support to see you past this little phase of yours :)
LOL, I might have to go into counselling ;-)
Love
Eddy
PS. Coming to England any time soon? Would love to hear you play :-)
This is the end of the thread.
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