![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Denise1966 on July 2, 2005, at 12:30:07
Hi,
I've never taken any amphetamines before and the chances of my getting Concerta, Adderall or anything like that from my psychiatrist or any psychiatrist in the UK is pretty remote.
I do however have some speed which I got off a friend, I don't really want to take it but as my seroxat doesn't seem to working very well at all was toying with the idea of trying it.
Just wondering how much like Concerta, Ritalin, Adderall, etc Speed is. I've seen a few people on this board augment their ads with amphetamines and am just wondering if I would have the same results with speed or am I likely to crash big time?
Thanks.....Denise
Posted by rjlockhart98 on July 2, 2005, at 15:15:50
In reply to Speed Question on., posted by Denise1966 on July 2, 2005, at 12:30:07
I have abused amphetamines before. Legal and Illegal.
I have taken Adderall for 8 years. I have stopped it.
If you want to know, here you go.
A notice in increased alertness, and begin talking on subjects with more enthusasim, which is annoying to the other person. Feel like going through old stuff, moving things, but feeling fine about, cleaning, or finding something you want (closet, attict, garage) but never had the motivation to do it. In the car, more expressions you give, like thanks, which usally you just blow off. Or during Traffic, someone inconsiderate ignores you, you usally react, rapidly getting into another lane, and zoom down it, feel good about it.
When it wears off, loss of intrest of alot of things, that is the problem with ADD. Emotioal disturbances can happen, and it very well will make you life miserable abusing it.I have got off it for my own well-being.
You take care
Posted by ed_uk on July 2, 2005, at 15:26:02
In reply to Speed Question on., posted by Denise1966 on July 2, 2005, at 12:30:07
Hi,
>.....and the chances of my getting Concerta, Adderall or anything like that from my psychiatrist or any psychiatrist in the UK is pretty remote........
Hehe, you're not kidding! You certainly won't get Adderall because it's not approved in the UK. Ritalin, Concerta and Dexedrine are available but (with rare exceptions) they're only prescribed to children.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 18:00:01
In reply to Re: Speed Question on. » Denise1966, posted by ed_uk on July 2, 2005, at 15:26:02
Don't do this. Its not a soln its only a short fix.
Mixing it with paxil could be a bad idea. If you feel crappy and suicidal now, just wait for the crash.
Go out and buy yourself some high EPA fish oil.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on July 3, 2005, at 4:54:58
In reply to DONT !!, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 18:00:01
Hi Link,
I take fish oil, it helps - I feel better.
~Ed
Posted by alohashirt on July 4, 2005, at 0:13:34
In reply to Re: DONT !! » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on July 3, 2005, at 4:54:58
Fish oil is great right up until you are chatting with your loved one and you burp. Suddenly fish oil tablets are as attractive as sardine cologne.
Posted by Denise1966 on July 4, 2005, at 11:16:29
In reply to DONT !!, posted by linkadge on July 2, 2005, at 18:00:01
.
Posted by Racer on July 4, 2005, at 13:06:47
In reply to Speed Question on., posted by Denise1966 on July 2, 2005, at 12:30:07
Listen, I can empathize with your desperation, but speed bought off the streets is a very bad idea. For one thing, you don't really know what you're taking. Before taking any street drug again, I would want to see the maker's transcripts from college chemistry, wouldn't you?
While I'm not usually a believer in all those supplements, etc, I will say this: after reading an article from Science, written by a group including our very own Chemist, about calcium and magnesium, I added magnesium supplements to my vitamin regimen. Surprise, surprise! That's when my antidepressants started working, and I got calmer. You might think of giving that a try. I take calcium and magnesium at a ratio of 2:1. (I need the calcium to combat bone loss from anorexia nervosa)
Truly, Denise, stay away from the speed. It's unstable, goes bad quickly, and has one hell of a crash to it. You don't want to try to live through that!
Posted by linkadge on July 4, 2005, at 15:29:08
In reply to BAD idea » Denise1966, posted by Racer on July 4, 2005, at 13:06:47
Taking speed for depression is profoundly not a good idea.
It is a dead end.
Linkadge
Posted by Alejandro on July 4, 2005, at 22:27:56
In reply to Speed Question on., posted by Denise1966 on July 2, 2005, at 12:30:07
Hi, Denise.
I´ve taken street methamphetamine (speed) almost daily, for a year. It used to seem great in the short term. But in the long term, it was the most unhealthy decision I have made in my life: I suffered an accidental overdose, due to unpredictable purity of the product, and had to spend the night in E.R...
So, I left it. It wasn´t big deal, but depression appeared, and it was a very hard time. Fortunately, I have been diagnosed adult ADHD and was prescribed ritalin. It was alomst as effective as meth for me, and neither tolerance/addiction were a problem in these 3 or 4 years I`ve been taking it. So, the problem is not if you take a stimulant or not: the problem is if you take it following appropiate procedures, validating rational methods and receiving support and assistance from people who knows about the problem you are trying to fight. So, try to introduce your necessity to others, to "socialize" your problem, and be forthcoming enough to listen what people could do for you. I mean, many doctors will prescribe stims if you explain clearly your situation and if they consider that stims could help.Alejandro
> Hi,
>
> I've never taken any amphetamines before and the chances of my getting Concerta, Adderall or anything like that from my psychiatrist or any psychiatrist in the UK is pretty remote.
>
> I do however have some speed which I got off a friend, I don't really want to take it but as my seroxat doesn't seem to working very well at all was toying with the idea of trying it.
>
> Just wondering how much like Concerta, Ritalin, Adderall, etc Speed is. I've seen a few people on this board augment their ads with amphetamines and am just wondering if I would have the same results with speed or am I likely to crash big time?
>
> Thanks.....Denise
Posted by chemist on July 5, 2005, at 12:10:28
In reply to BAD idea » Denise1966, posted by Racer on July 4, 2005, at 13:06:47
> While I'm not usually a believer in all those supplements, etc, I will say this: after reading an article from Science, written by a group including our very own Chemist, about calcium and magnesium, I added magnesium supplements to my vitamin regimen. Surprise, surprise! That's when my antidepressants started working, and I got calmer.
hello there, chemist here...i have to agree with Racer....:) yours, c
Posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:02:38
In reply to Speed Question on., posted by Denise1966 on July 2, 2005, at 12:30:07
> Hi,
>
> I've never taken any amphetamines before and the chances of my getting Concerta, Adderall or anything like that from my psychiatrist or any psychiatrist in the UK is pretty remote.
>That's mostly because in the UK, psychiatry is not as advanced as it is in the U.S.
Which is weird, since it's certainly not pharmaceutical influence. Shire makes Adderall, and is a U.K. company.
You have to remember, Amphetamine on ADD was first tried in 1937 in Rhode Island by a doctor giving it to pediatric patients in a psychiatric hospital. So we pioneered research in this country, and still do.
Why don't you find yourself a good psychiatric institute known for their ADD research? Perhaps contact your local ADD support group in your country? Here, we have CHADD, which is Children and Adults with ADD. I don't know what you guys have, but Chadd is online at chadd.org.
Frankly, you guys need to make your own support group like CHADD has, and stop letting scientific illiteracy overwhelm your media outlets.
In the U.S., media here often has M.D.'s review scientific-related news reports to check for false arguements, or ones unsupported by scientific research.
In the U.K., I can't imagine the stuff is being written by anyone who does anything but pull rubbish out without thinking twice of whether's it's supported by research.
Go to a hospital that has a prominent unit specializing in diagnosing and treating ADD. Not one run by psychologists, but doctors. My evaluation here in the states in Boston cost me $1600, and was required by my college to receive extended test taking time. But my docs never bother to even read it, and were prescribing me any med I asked them to (I've tried every prescribed stimulant).
It's not sold in the U.K., but here methamphetamine hydrochloride is prescribed for ADD under the brand name Desoxyn. I take 20mg/day.
DO NOT ILLICITLY OBTAIN METHAMPHETAMINE!
It's not the same thing. I can guarantee you, it's almost never 100% meth. To cheapen it even more than it already is, it's regularly mixed in with at least half regular amphetamines.Sounds innocent enough, until you know what happens when your body takes a regular amphetamine and a methamphetamine all at once.
That's mostly what makes the stuff so toxic to users-- it's extremely dangerous to mix that combination, having felt neausous and my friends told me I looked pale white after I innocently took leftover Adderall and Desoxyn (meth) combined by mistake one night.
Also, you will get psychologically addicted, because there's more potent stuff there. You don't just weight it like cocaine or something (which i've never tried, but presume is more controlled given its price). It's made in shoddy "labs" on stove tops by morons who didn't exactly take Accelerated Chem.
You'll never know what you're getting, you're statisically unlikely to get 100% meth, ever, on the streets, and odds are it's almost always mixed in with amphetamines by half, if not stuff you don't even want to know exists.
And if you are taking it to do well in school or for the future, keep in mind risking a felony won't help your reason for taking it.
Adderall or Ritalin is not illegal in the U.K., and it sounds like you have minimal experience even bothering to find out. If you don't know a psychiatrist who specializes in ADD, you might have some problems.
But if you think it's harder to search for a doctor who's prominent in the field than to do time for methamphetamine, honestly I don't think I should bother wasting my time giving you advice to begin with. It's your life.
Posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:09:38
In reply to Re: Speed Question on. » Denise1966, posted by ed_uk on July 2, 2005, at 15:26:02
> Hehe, you're not kidding! You certainly won't get Adderall because it's not approved in the UK. Ritalin, Concerta and Dexedrine are available but (with rare exceptions) they're only prescribed to children.
>
> Kind regards
>
> ~Ed
Ed,First of all, that's the most insincere salutations I've ever read.
This guy/girl is obviously misguided, but you're not exactly giving accurate information to steer him anywhere better.
A recent BBC documentary, entitled, "Living with ADHD" presents two families coping with the disorder. One family profiled is a mother with two children, and both the mother and the two children take Ritalin.
Also, Shire is a U.K.-based firm. I don't know if they sell in the U.K., but I'm not going to assume your information about it not being sold there is accurate, either, given you claim no adults with ADD are treated for their medical illness.
This is just straight-out geographically stereotyping the U.K. as backwards (regardless if you live there or not). So It's not Boston. It's not Bolivia, either.
I'm sorry, but claiming Ritalin is not given to adults in the U.K. is just something you're making up. It's completely false.
Posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:13:03
In reply to No, This is misinformation. Adults are treated., posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:09:38
>
> > Hehe, you're not kidding! You certainly won't get Adderall because it's not approved in the UK. Ritalin, Concerta and Dexedrine are available but (with rare exceptions) they're only prescribed to children.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > ~EdAll medications are prescribed under rare exceptions.
If they weren't, they'd be over the counter.
Posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:19:02
In reply to Re: BAD idea good idea(?) » Racer, posted by chemist on July 5, 2005, at 12:10:28
Chemist, I have no idea about this Nature article, but omg, you got published in Nature?
Wow. Magnesium I've heard, but I've only bothered to take my 8-10 fish oil capsules a day for depression because of the Noregian studies and my docs all citing them emphatically.
Magesium I always dismissed as yet-another-supplement getting touted over the 'net.
My blood levels reveal perfect states of everything, and I take iron and B-100 supplements to ensure this due to existing defiencies otherwise.
So your study found elevated, beyond those found to be in the norm ranges, helpful in patients with ADD?
And what's this Calcium stuff? I do notice my bones seem like weaker feeling whenever I take Ritalin, Adderall, or Desoxyn. I know animal protein sources of calcium can usurp calcium from the bones, and my sister claims caffiene (stimulant-related reason?) does the same.
I am vegan, so I take calcium from plant-based proteins, thank god, since I'm not that ignorant, but I want your take on whether stimulants do actually take calcium from the bones or not, or if this sensation of weaker bones is in my head perhaps. Also, what dose of Mg did your conclusions advise? Do I just pop the typical dose of a magnesium supplement, like I do with low-dose Feosol for my iron?
Posted by Racer on July 6, 2005, at 14:40:08
In reply to Re: Speed Question on., posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:02:38
Easy, buddy -- I know how I'd feel if something like this was directed at me, and only hope that Ed and Denise are more resilient than I am.
Just keep in mind that the UK has the National Health Service to deal with, so choosing a doctor isn't as easy as it is in the US. Your advice is very good, about getting evaluated by a doctor who specializes in the issues you're looking for treatment for, but it's not always feasible for everyone. In the UK, getting treatment *at all* can be a struggle, and even over here it can be impossible to find competent treatment if you don't have insurance or adequate financial resources. (Trust me -- I just got medical insurance after ten years of being uninsured -- and even with insurance, it's still a real stretch financially to get adequate treatment for my issues.)
I'm not at all disagreeing with your basic point -- only reminding you that sometimes things aren't as easy as they might seem on the surface.
And about the magnesium: the article in question had nothing to do with psychiatric effects. It was all about muscle metabolism -- at least, that's all that I understood, chemist can tell you more. The psychiatric effects were just a fringe benefit that I noticed.
Posted by chemist on July 6, 2005, at 14:51:58
In reply to Re: BAD idea good idea(?) » chemist, posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:19:02
> Chemist, I have no idea about this Nature article, but omg, you got published in Nature?
*** hello there, chemist here...Science, actually - Nature is nice, but with features such as the identification of a neuron in the human brain that responds to images of Jennifer Aniston (Nature v. 435, 23 June 2005), i'll take the slightly lower impact factor and much lower fluff factor....***
>
> Wow. Magnesium I've heard, but I've only bothered to take my 8-10 fish oil capsules a day for depression because of the Noregian studies and my docs all citing them emphatically.
>
> Magesium I always dismissed as yet-another-supplement getting touted over the 'net.
>
> My blood levels reveal perfect states of everything, and I take iron and B-100 supplements to ensure this due to existing defiencies otherwise.
>
> So your study found elevated, beyond those found to be in the norm ranges, helpful in patients with ADD?
>
*** no. babblemail me and i will provide the citations (there are others that are more germane)...the Mg/Ca business is a critical part of understanding another phenomenon entirely...***> And what's this Calcium stuff? I do notice my bones seem like weaker feeling whenever I take Ritalin, Adderall, or Desoxyn. I know animal protein sources of calcium can usurp calcium from the bones, and my sister claims caffiene (stimulant-related reason?) does the same.
*** animal protein sources of calcium? you are likely referring to striated muscle, and the cation is bound in any case. once calcium is in solution, from whence it came is irrelavent...indiscriminate chelation of any group I/II cations and diuretic effect of methylated xanthine = loss of solvated or loosely-bound species, i suspect....***
>
> I am vegan, so I take calcium from plant-based proteins, thank god, since I'm not that ignorant, but I want your take on whether stimulants do actually take calcium from the bones or not, or if this sensation of weaker bones is in my head perhaps.*** metabolism/catabolism of phenethylamine CNS stimulants is very clean and not likely to displace calcium in bone - a hydroxyapatite matrix which, given a very unrealistic local pH change, could instigate salting-out of Ca/Mg hydroxides but this is not observed - but increased urination from excess fluid intake while stimulated might be a first go-round...all the best, chemist ***
Also, what dose of Mg did your conclusions advise? Do I just pop the typical dose of a magnesium supplement, like I do with low-dose Feosol for my iron?
Posted by utopizen on July 7, 2005, at 11:49:14
In reply to Re: BAD idea good idea(?) » utopizen, posted by chemist on July 6, 2005, at 14:51:58
> > I am vegan, so I take calcium from plant-based proteins, thank god, since I'm not that ignorant, but I want your take on whether stimulants do actually take calcium from the bones or not, or if this sensation of weaker bones is in my head perhaps.
>Um, ok, well, I got the info from pcrm.org, Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. Keep in mind, like all phyician committees, and all sources of information, they have a bias. They are 10,000 vegan doctors also finanically supported by 100,000 laypersons.
Their docs have some astounding credentials, so don't be too quick to dismiss. They also tend to be very good about their research, so at the very least, you can source out what you wish and scrutinize from there.
tc,
utop.
Posted by ed_uk on July 7, 2005, at 14:36:54
In reply to No, This is misinformation. Adults are treated., posted by utopizen on July 6, 2005, at 14:09:38
>First of all, that's the most insincere salutations I've ever read.
That was rude. Denise1966 is being treated for depression, not ADD. Perhaps you should have read about her before you attacked me. In England, depression is never treated with stimulants.
>Also, Shire is a U.K.-based firm.
Adderall is not available in the UK, it never has been. I work in a pharmacy, I am well aware of which meds are available in the UK.
>given you claim no adults with ADD are treated for their medical illness.
In the UK, it is extremely rare for adults to be prescribed stumulants. Most adult pdocs never prescribe stims at all. This is a fact which I am well aware of. I have seen many pdocs.
>medical illness....
Adult ADD does not 'exist' in the UK. Pdocs just don't diagnose it here. If they did, I would have been diagnosed years ago! There are a very small number of adult ADD specialists here, VERY SMALL.
>mother and the two children take Ritalin.....
Children are sometimes prescribed Ritalin in the UK. Most child pdocs prescribe it. A very small number of adults also take Ritalin. It's not unheard of but it's very unusual.
>I'm sorry, but claiming Ritalin is not given to adults in the U.K. is just something you're making up. It's completely false.
Look sweetie, I've worked in a pharmacy in a psych hospital....and in many community pharmacies. I know what I'm talking about. Perhaps you know the UK better than I do?
~Ed
Posted by Racer on July 7, 2005, at 17:53:38
In reply to Re: No, This is misinformation. Adults are treated. » utopizen, posted by ed_uk on July 7, 2005, at 14:36:54
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 8, 2005, at 9:06:58
In reply to Re: No, This is misinformation. Adults are treated. » utopizen, posted by ed_uk on July 7, 2005, at 14:36:54
> that's the most insincere salutations I've ever read.
>
> This guy/girl is obviously misguided
>
> utopizen> That was rude.
>
> ed_ukPlease don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. Even if you feel accused or put down yourself.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by jerrympls on July 8, 2005, at 17:01:47
In reply to Re: No, This is misinformation. Adults are treated. » utopizen, posted by ed_uk on July 7, 2005, at 14:36:54
I really respect Ed's knowledge of the system in the UK and he knows a heck of a lot about how things work over there. In my opinion we was hardly trying to be insensitive to denise by telling her that stimulants are rarely - if ever -prescribed to adults. He was simply stating fact.
In any event - I hope Denise can find some good help!!
Good luck!
Jerry
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.