Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 493198

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 16:06:19

Hey all,

I'm on a couple pro-GABA meds (ativan and depakote), which I think might be helping with my anxiety. I've read that GABA can clamp down on dopamine, which can result in anergia, anhedonia, dysthymia, etc, which have always been problems for me and have gotten worse since being on these meds.

Does the anti-anxiety effect of GABA come mainly through dopamine supression? Or are there other factors at play?

I'd like to know because one possibility would be to add a dopaminergic drug (e.g. selegiline) to counterbalance my depressed mood. But I'm concerned that doing so would negate the anxiety reduction due to GABA.

Input greatly appreciated.

Best,
cache-monkey

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by linkadge on May 3, 2005, at 16:39:43

In reply to Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 16:06:19

In some ways yes.

Gaba modulates dopamine. Generally supressing it in areas like the frontal cortex where in excess it may lead to hypermotivation/mania etc.

I believe the depakote would lead to more dopamine supression than the benzodiazapine, which would work mainly in the limbic system.

Believe it or not, benzodiazapines increase dopamine in the neucleus accumbens (brain pleasure centers), which points to their possable abuse potential.


Taking a stimulant may indeed reverse some of the anti-anxiety effects of the medication, but not necessarily all. Test it out on yourself with coffee!!

Linkadge

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by Declan on May 3, 2005, at 17:34:26

In reply to Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 16:06:19

Selegeline above 5mg/day would make me anxious. A little (1-2mg/d) doesn't. At this dose its pretty subtle. Why not try it and increase the dose until you just notice it?
Declan

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis? » Declan

Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2005, at 17:43:17

In reply to Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by Declan on May 3, 2005, at 17:34:26

Interesting, can I follow? Fondly, Phillipa

 

Depakote, GABA, dopamine

Posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 22:41:47

In reply to Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by linkadge on May 3, 2005, at 16:39:43

Hi Link,

Thanks for the response. I'm actually wondering whether GABA's mechanism of anxiety/mania reduction is *solely* through dopamine. E.g. are there other neurotransmitters or systems affected by GABA that might come into play.

As far as a dopamine/stimulant challenge, coffee might not be the best one for me since it has anxiogens (other than dopamine) in it. I do notice that smoking doesn't seem to make my anxiety worse, which might indicate that something like selegiline could be useful.

Anyway, thanks again,
cache-monkey

 

above post for linkadge (nm)

Posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 22:43:59

In reply to Depakote, GABA, dopamine, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 22:41:47

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis? » Declan

Posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 22:44:30

In reply to Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by Declan on May 3, 2005, at 17:34:26

Thanks for the input. That's probably a good strategy. In your experience, did you get any sort of a postive response from doses that low?

Best,
cache-monkey

> Selegeline above 5mg/day would make me anxious. A little (1-2mg/d) doesn't. At this dose its pretty subtle. Why not try it and increase the dose until you just notice it?
> Declan

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by linkadge on May 4, 2005, at 15:44:10

In reply to Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis? » Declan, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 22:44:30

I think the end target might just be glutamate.

Increasing gaba decreases dopamine but proably more so decreases glutamate.

I think this is why antiglutamate drugs also have efficacy in anxiety, ie magnesium, vitamin C, lithium etc.


Linkadge

 

Re: Topamax, GABA, and anxiety?

Posted by Cairo on May 4, 2005, at 19:01:17

In reply to Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 16:06:19

Since one of the mechanisms of Topamax is augmenting the activity of gamma-aminobutyrate at some of the subtypes of the GABA-A receptor, why would it cause anxiety? I've titrated up to 100mg and gotten progressively more anxious. Today I cried off and on for no reason. Started after I took my morning dose. I get all sorts of paradoxical reactions to meds. Neurontin was ok, but gained weight and was too foggy. Am taking it for pain.

Cairo

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by Declan on May 4, 2005, at 23:50:48

In reply to Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis? » Declan, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 22:44:30

Yeah, its pretty subtle. The prosexual effect is more pronouced, as is more energy, than any particular mood improving effect. My doctor (nutritional medicine) is quite comfortable with it, a nutritional strategy thing. I'd like to try low dose Parnate.
Declan

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by Mr.Scott on May 5, 2005, at 20:18:36

In reply to Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 16:06:19

Most definately ritalin, amphetamine, and particularly provigil reverse some of the effects of gaba enhancing drugs.

Good luck trying to strike a balence. I've found it impossible.

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 6, 2005, at 9:24:55

In reply to Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by Mr.Scott on May 5, 2005, at 20:18:36

IIRC, GABAnergic neurons make up roughly 40% of the brain and are present all over the place. The number of DA neurons--again, IIRC--is only around 20,000-30,000. Thus, it's incoherent to say "dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis". GABA of course "modulates" DA neurotransmission at times, such as in the "pleasure center" where GABA neurons serve as the "brakes" on the dopaminergic reinforcement mechanism.

Moreover, Increasing GABA indiscriminately is not necessarily anxiolytic at all; ask the many people for whom gabitril made anxiety worse. I think what you're asking is "Will taking a dopaminergic drug cancel out GABAnergic anxiolytics?"

To answer your question in the spirit in which you asked it: no, it does not cancel it out.

 

Re: Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?

Posted by willyee on May 6, 2005, at 10:49:06

In reply to Does dopamine cancel GABA anxiolysis?, posted by cache-monkey on May 3, 2005, at 16:06:19

> Hey all,
>
> I'm on a couple pro-GABA meds (ativan and depakote), which I think might be helping with my anxiety. I've read that GABA can clamp down on dopamine, which can result in anergia, anhedonia, dysthymia, etc, which have always been problems for me and have gotten worse since being on these meds.
>
> Does the anti-anxiety effect of GABA come mainly through dopamine supression? Or are there other factors at play?
>
> I'd like to know because one possibility would be to add a dopaminergic drug (e.g. selegiline) to counterbalance my depressed mood. But I'm concerned that doing so would negate the anxiety reduction due to GABA.
>
> Input greatly appreciated.
>
> Best,
> cache-monkey

NO WAY,i agree with the prevoious poster i take and have always taken numerous gaba agents from herbs such as kava to all the meds gabatril klonopin to now nuerontin.

Taking caffiene,vivarin tabs has always helped with the initial anxiety and DEPRESSION and stupour gaba meds bring on.In fact i remeber when i was on klonopin alone,at work id take my pill and hear for juicy fruit and mountain dew,this let the klonopin slide in unannounced and keep me energized,i am so grate for klono i used klono alone many times when my main med wasant avaialable for something,witohut caffiene gaba kills me with anxiety,oh escpeicaly on ghb.

Redbull for example,Taurine is an amino acid similiar to klonopin,its a surrpressant of nuero atcitivity in the brain,supposed to calm the entire nerve system,well there is a lot of taurine in redbull and i thinks its mainly to balance all of the drinks high stimulant properties as coffee does with its opoid relaxing like qulaityis to caiffeine and sugar in coffee.


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