![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
I'm waiting. Waiting to hear something about the DBS study. I am sick. So bloody sick. I can barely get up during the day. I am in bed most of the time. I dissociate and I like it that way.
No one cares. There is no point in going to the hospital because they won't keep me unless I need a med change. I am so scared that I am going to get tricked into having ECT. When you feel so low and someone hangs a carrot in front of you, it's so tempting to go for it even if it's rotten inside.
I want to kill myself but I am so apathetic I wouldn't be able to carry it out.
I know no one said that life would be fair ... but this isn't fair.
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 19:54:58
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
I know you're miserable Maxime. But, they haven't said no to the DBS. Why is it that it takes so long for the "system" to work. If they'd just let you know. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 17, 2005, at 20:33:42
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
> I'm waiting. Waiting to hear something about the DBS study.
> No one cares.:-) What a bunch of crap!
Everyone here does.
> I want to kill myself but I am so apathetic I wouldn't be able to carry it out.
I know the feeling. For me, it is a sense of helplessness and low energy that has helped prevent me from autoeuthenizing in the past.
> I know no one said that life would be fair ... but this isn't fair.
No, it isn't.
I have nothing smart to say that will make you feel any better, except, perhaps, that you are not alone and are among friends.
- Scott
Posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 23:28:01
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Maxime, posted by SLS on March 17, 2005, at 20:33:42
Hi sweetie Scott -
I guess I meant in real life that no one care. I know people here care, but there is only so much you can do.I'm grateful for everyone here.
Maxime
> > I'm waiting. Waiting to hear something about the DBS study.
>
> > No one cares.
>
> :-) What a bunch of crap!
>
> Everyone here does.
>
> > I want to kill myself but I am so apathetic I wouldn't be able to carry it out.
>
> I know the feeling. For me, it is a sense of helplessness and low energy that has helped prevent me from autoeuthenizing in the past.
>
> > I know no one said that life would be fair ... but this isn't fair.
>
> No, it isn't.
>
> I have nothing smart to say that will make you feel any better, except, perhaps, that you are not alone and are among friends.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 23:32:03
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 19:54:58
> I know you're miserable Maxime. But, they haven't said no to the DBS. Why is it that it takes so long for the "system" to work. If they'd just let you know. Fondly, Phillipa
Because it's a system I guess. I know that the media attention the study received has really bogged them down with referrals and people wanting to be part of the study. I have to call them tomorrow and make sure they receive my pdoc's fax. I emailed the coordinator and asked but she did not reply. Tomorrow I will call.
Who knew that so many people would volunteer to have holes drilled into their heads???
Maxime
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2005, at 0:12:46
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 23:32:03
It just shows you how many people are not responding to medications, and are reaching out for help, help that their pdocs can't give them. We evidently still live in the dark ages as far as the brain is concernd I guess they didn't live long enough to experience this. Doesn't it make you wonder what people is, or were so busy trying to stay alive that they didn't have time to be depressed. Or, did they just lock them up and throw away the key? Keep your chin up Maxime help is on it's way for you, i know it is! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Steve3211 on March 18, 2005, at 14:36:24
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
> I'm waiting. Waiting to hear something about the DBS study. I am sick. So bloody sick. I can barely get up during the day. I am in bed most of the time. I dissociate and I like it that way.
>
> No one cares. There is no point in going to the hospital because they won't keep me unless I need a med change. I am so scared that I am going to get tricked into having ECT. When you feel so low and someone hangs a carrot in front of you, it's so tempting to go for it even if it's rotten inside.
>
> I want to kill myself but I am so apathetic I wouldn't be able to carry it out.
>
> I know no one said that life would be fair ... but this isn't fair.
>
> MaximeI hope you feel better soon Maxime.
Best-Steve
>
>
Posted by gardenergirl on March 18, 2005, at 14:39:52
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by Steve3211 on March 18, 2005, at 14:36:24
Posted by The_Resistance on March 18, 2005, at 16:03:02
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
Hey Maxine
Sorry I haven't posted to you before.
I don't have a lot of personal experience with Psych drugs, and that makes me reluctant to advise incase I get it wrong.
May I ask what medication you are currently taking?
Considering that parnate worked for you in the past, and that you seem to respond better to stimulating meds, I think high dose Depreny/sellegiline might be an idea.
For me sellegiline had imedeate mood brightening effects.
I think its time to think outside the box as far as your treatment is concerned.
How about Adrafanil, I found that it had a substantial antidepressant effect within days.
Sorry about spelling, I am dyslexic
Posted by CareBear04 on March 18, 2005, at 17:08:35
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
maxime dear-- i'm so sorry you feel so bad. i've definitely been in dark places where i feel like that and where it feels like i'm shouting, like i'm drowning, and like no one will act. i must've missed your other posts because i don't know what DBS is, but i'm crossing my fingers for you that it will come through.
you're right that life isn't fair. i used to look around at everyone else and see that most of them are blindly content; they don't spend hours each day wondering as to the meaning or purpose of life and their own meaningfulness. while my friends led normal college lives, i lost time and credits and positions and had my identity and reputation defined by my illness. maybe just because i'm in a better place at the moment, i can say that life's not fair, but the playing field does level some. i don't know if you've been in black holes like this before, but if you have, you know that you've survived and dug your way out and are stronger because of it, regardless of where you're at now. because you've experienced a lot, you have a lot to give. i know that doesn't help right now, but i'm sending you lots of good thoughts and know that you're strong and can make it through this. you're worth all the treatment you can get and more, so don't stop reaching out for it! you're in my thoughts... *hugs*
cb
Posted by maxime on March 18, 2005, at 19:59:06
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Maxime, posted by CareBear04 on March 18, 2005, at 17:08:35
Thank you CB. You are so sweet. DBS is deep brain stimulation ... a pacemaker for the brain. They are doing trial studies in Toronto and I am trying to get on it.
This is this deepest depression I have been in.
Maxime
> maxime dear-- i'm so sorry you feel so bad. i've definitely been in dark places where i feel like that and where it feels like i'm shouting, like i'm drowning, and like no one will act. i must've missed your other posts because i don't know what DBS is, but i'm crossing my fingers for you that it will come through.
>
> you're right that life isn't fair. i used to look around at everyone else and see that most of them are blindly content; they don't spend hours each day wondering as to the meaning or purpose of life and their own meaningfulness. while my friends led normal college lives, i lost time and credits and positions and had my identity and reputation defined by my illness. maybe just because i'm in a better place at the moment, i can say that life's not fair, but the playing field does level some. i don't know if you've been in black holes like this before, but if you have, you know that you've survived and dug your way out and are stronger because of it, regardless of where you're at now. because you've experienced a lot, you have a lot to give. i know that doesn't help right now, but i'm sending you lots of good thoughts and know that you're strong and can make it through this. you're worth all the treatment you can get and more, so don't stop reaching out for it! you're in my thoughts... *hugs*
> cb
Posted by maxime on March 18, 2005, at 20:03:20
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by The_Resistance on March 18, 2005, at 16:03:02
Hi.
Right I am not on an anti-depressant because there is nothing left for me to try. I have been MAOIs and Parnate was the last drug I was taking. I am BP type two so I am taking Trileptal and Clonazapam as mood stabiliers. I take thorazine to help me sleep sometimes.
I can't get selegiline in Canada. I have been on anafranil, desipramine, Pamelor .... I can list 40 meds I have tried.
No more meds.
maxime
> Hey Maxine
>
> Sorry I haven't posted to you before.
>
> I don't have a lot of personal experience with Psych drugs, and that makes me reluctant to advise incase I get it wrong.
>
> May I ask what medication you are currently taking?
>
> Considering that parnate worked for you in the past, and that you seem to respond better to stimulating meds, I think high dose Depreny/sellegiline might be an idea.
>
> For me sellegiline had imedeate mood brightening effects.
>
> I think its time to think outside the box as far as your treatment is concerned.
>
> How about Adrafanil, I found that it had a substantial antidepressant effect within days.
>
> Sorry about spelling, I am dyslexic
Posted by maxime on March 18, 2005, at 20:04:42
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by Steve3211 on March 18, 2005, at 14:36:24
Thanks Steve. :)
Maxime
>
> I hope you feel better soon Maxime.
> Best-Steve
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by cache-monkey on March 19, 2005, at 1:46:40
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » The_Resistance, posted by maxime on March 18, 2005, at 20:03:20
Hi Maxime,
I'm sorry you're feeling so down, and I hope the DPS comes through at some point soon. (From what I've read it sounds pretty amazing.)
I'm sure you've already thought of this, and perhaps ruled it out. But, I'll mention it anyawy. I've heard from a number on this board that Klonopin can induce depression in some folks. So, I'm wondering if the clonazepam might be worsening an already bad state. Just a thought.
Are you on the K for bipolar or for anxiety, BTW? If it's anxiety, other benzos (e.g. Xanax) might be a little better in terms of helping out with the depression.
All the best,
cache-monkey> Hi.
>
> Right I am not on an anti-depressant because there is nothing left for me to try. I have been MAOIs and Parnate was the last drug I was taking. I am BP type two so I am taking Trileptal and Clonazapam as mood stabiliers. I take thorazine to help me sleep sometimes.
>
> I can't get selegiline in Canada. I have been on anafranil, desipramine, Pamelor .... I can list 40 meds I have tried.
>
> No more meds.
>
> maxime
>
>
> > Hey Maxine
> >
> > Sorry I haven't posted to you before.
> >
> > I don't have a lot of personal experience with Psych drugs, and that makes me reluctant to advise incase I get it wrong.
> >
> > May I ask what medication you are currently taking?
> >
> > Considering that parnate worked for you in the past, and that you seem to respond better to stimulating meds, I think high dose Depreny/sellegiline might be an idea.
> >
> > For me sellegiline had imedeate mood brightening effects.
> >
> > I think its time to think outside the box as far as your treatment is concerned.
> >
> > How about Adrafanil, I found that it had a substantial antidepressant effect within days.
> >
> > Sorry about spelling, I am dyslexic
>
>
Posted by Maxime on March 19, 2005, at 12:12:36
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by cache-monkey on March 19, 2005, at 1:46:40
Hi again.
I use Klonopin as a mood stabliser. I don't suffer from anxiety. I have been on the same dosage (4mg) since 1996. I do know it can make some people more depressed, but I don't think that is the case for me since I have been on it for such a long time at the same dosage.
I guess at this point anything is possible though. However I cannot go through withdrawal right now ... that would surely be the end of me.
Maxime
> Hi Maxime,
>
> I'm sorry you're feeling so down, and I hope the DPS comes through at some point soon. (From what I've read it sounds pretty amazing.)
>
> I'm sure you've already thought of this, and perhaps ruled it out. But, I'll mention it anyawy. I've heard from a number on this board that Klonopin can induce depression in some folks. So, I'm wondering if the clonazepam might be worsening an already bad state. Just a thought.
>
> Are you on the K for bipolar or for anxiety, BTW? If it's anxiety, other benzos (e.g. Xanax) might be a little better in terms of helping out with the depression.
>
> All the best,
> cache-monkey
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > Right I am not on an anti-depressant because there is nothing left for me to try. I have been MAOIs and Parnate was the last drug I was taking. I am BP type two so I am taking Trileptal and Clonazapam as mood stabiliers. I take thorazine to help me sleep sometimes.
> >
> > I can't get selegiline in Canada. I have been on anafranil, desipramine, Pamelor .... I can list 40 meds I have tried.
> >
> > No more meds.
> >
> > maxime
> >
> >
> > > Hey Maxine
> > >
> > > Sorry I haven't posted to you before.
> > >
> > > I don't have a lot of personal experience with Psych drugs, and that makes me reluctant to advise incase I get it wrong.
> > >
> > > May I ask what medication you are currently taking?
> > >
> > > Considering that parnate worked for you in the past, and that you seem to respond better to stimulating meds, I think high dose Depreny/sellegiline might be an idea.
> > >
> > > For me sellegiline had imedeate mood brightening effects.
> > >
> > > I think its time to think outside the box as far as your treatment is concerned.
> > >
> > > How about Adrafanil, I found that it had a substantial antidepressant effect within days.
> > >
> > > Sorry about spelling, I am dyslexic
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Minnie-Haha on March 19, 2005, at 14:42:52
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
> ... I am so scared that I am going to get tricked into having ECT. When you feel so low and someone hangs a carrot in front of you, it's so tempting to go for it even if it's rotten inside...
I'm sorry... I don't know you or your story. (I feel like I've got to know some posters here pretty well, but not you.) May I ask why you're scared about ECT? I haven't had it myself... Used to be when I'd here about it, I'd think of some horror stories of the 1950s or something with people in institutions being given procedures against their will. Things like lobotomies and "shock therapy." But from what I've read, the procedure (at least nowadays -- I don't know how accurate Hollywood depictions have been about the past) is painless and safe, and what's more, very effective. I think if I ever got to a point where medication and psychotherapy quit working for me altogether, I'd consider ECT. Of course, I'm no expert. Has your research shown a high risk for this?
Posted by Maxime on March 19, 2005, at 21:45:11
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Maxime, posted by Minnie-Haha on March 19, 2005, at 14:42:52
The are several reasons. First, ECT works by destroying brain tissue. I would like to keep mine thank you. Also, its beginnings were in a slaughter house in 1938 ...
Electrical FORCE is not good for any living thing. A baseball bat strike to the head will cause a person to alter their behavior and become controllable. Repeated hits will quickly render them docile and easy to manage. This is not an invalid or simplistic analogy. ECT involves tremendous force applied to the body, brain and mind via strong electrical current. On a certain level bio-chemical processes are basically electrical. Nerve functioning is electrical in nature. ECT disrupts and confuses the electrical activity of the body and especially the brain (and associated mind). Research into "bio-electrical" energy fields around living organisms indicates energy patterns and flows around the body and organs which are not yet understood. Strong electrical jolts of ECT most likely have negative and harmful effects to these energy fields, the purpose of which modern science barely understands.
Now I can just as easily find research that will point me in the other direction. That will help me see it as a cure. But unfortunately I KNOW too many people in real life who have had the following occur after ECT:
1. Memory loss - long and short term
2. Cognitive impairment. My friend lost her math skills.
3. A worsened state. Another friend actually became more suicidal and they had to stop the treatments.
4. It never ends. Very few people have just one round of ECT. Most people need booster shocks
Finally no psychiatrist can tell you exactly why or how it helps. When my pdoc tells me again how safe it is I will ask him to allow me watch as he receives "treatment". I am sure his response will tell me a lot.Because I am a writer I will once again end with a quote from Hemingway:
"Well, what is the sense of ruining my head and erasing my memory, which is my capital, and putting me out of business? It was a brilliant cure but we lost the patient."- Ernest Hemingway, Nobel Prize-winning author who killed himself after complaining that psychiatric electric shocks had ruined his career by destroying his memory.So that is why I will not have it done. Ever.
Maxime
> > ... I am so scared that I am going to get tricked into having ECT. When you feel so low and someone hangs a carrot in front of you, it's so tempting to go for it even if it's rotten inside...
>
> I'm sorry... I don't know you or your story. (I feel like I've got to know some posters here pretty well, but not you.) May I ask why you're scared about ECT? I haven't had it myself... Used to be when I'd here about it, I'd think of some horror stories of the 1950s or something with people in institutions being given procedures against their will. Things like lobotomies and "shock therapy." But from what I've read, the procedure (at least nowadays -- I don't know how accurate Hollywood depictions have been about the past) is painless and safe, and what's more, very effective. I think if I ever got to a point where medication and psychotherapy quit working for me altogether, I'd consider ECT. Of course, I'm no expert. Has your research shown a high risk for this?
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on March 19, 2005, at 21:54:11
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 19, 2005, at 21:45:11
A very strong argument against ECT. Now I feel comfortable telling you what I saw when i was in the hospital. A woman who was intent on killing herself as her twin brother had was very coherent, and not at all confused. Just suicidal with a plan. She received ECT. Went home for 2 days. Came back in the hospital while I was there and couldn't remember anything. It was really scarey. She just tidied up her room and the community area continuously. She didn't even remember who i was or the other woman who she had made friends with. I often wonder what has become of her. Some people have good results or they wouldn't still use it, but for others it doesn't evidently work. Hope you get in the DBS study. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by TamaraJ on March 20, 2005, at 12:30:42
In reply to I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 17, 2005, at 19:41:30
~~~ I hope you hear something positive about the DBS study soon. My fingers, toes, eyes . . . , are crossed for you.
~~~ People care Maxime. You have to try to believe that. And, you have to know that people at Babble care deeply. I know you probably don't particularly want to see another doctor, but have you ever considered making the trip to Ottawa to see someone at the Royal Ottawa Hospital. Our local news had a week-long segment on depression recently, and a Dr. Blier was interviewed. He joined the ROH last year as Endowed Chair in Mood Disorders Research (here's a quote from the pr announcing his appointment: "Dr. Blier, world-renowned clinical scientist in depression, moved from the United States to take the coveted Chair position and to lead an innovative clinical, research and teaching program in the field of depression at the Royal Ottawa Hospital and the research institute. He is well recognized for groundbreaking advances in the treatment of depression, particularly in getting patients to feel better much more quickly than conventional approaches.").
And, at the risk of pissing you off, I will say this: until you get your ED under control and start eating more than 500 calories a day, you will continue to have problems. Neither the body nor the mind can function optimally in a state of near starvation. If you can not bring yourself to eat solid foods, at least try some homemade protein shakes (using whey protein powder, fresh fruit, almonds, yogurt) and even baby food. (Smack, slap, pow - I have given myself a slap on your behalf :-) )
Try to take care of yourself Maxime. And, please don't give up hope yet. Although you may not believe it now, you still have much to offer and to contribute.
Tamara
Posted by Minnie-Haha on March 20, 2005, at 19:36:11
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by Maxime on March 19, 2005, at 21:45:11
Thanks for the info. I understand your feelings, and I hope you find your answer soon. I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Please don't give up trying to find it!
Posted by Maxime on March 20, 2005, at 20:30:05
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Maxime, posted by TamaraJ on March 20, 2005, at 12:30:42
I know you are right Tamara. But I only deserve 500 calories a day.
I'm sure it would take months and months to see someone at the Royal Ottawa Hospital and I don't think I will be around by then.
Maxime
> ~~~ I hope you hear something positive about the DBS study soon. My fingers, toes, eyes . . . , are crossed for you.
>
> ~~~ People care Maxime. You have to try to believe that. And, you have to know that people at Babble care deeply. I know you probably don't particularly want to see another doctor, but have you ever considered making the trip to Ottawa to see someone at the Royal Ottawa Hospital. Our local news had a week-long segment on depression recently, and a Dr. Blier was interviewed. He joined the ROH last year as Endowed Chair in Mood Disorders Research (here's a quote from the pr announcing his appointment: "Dr. Blier, world-renowned clinical scientist in depression, moved from the United States to take the coveted Chair position and to lead an innovative clinical, research and teaching program in the field of depression at the Royal Ottawa Hospital and the research institute. He is well recognized for groundbreaking advances in the treatment of depression, particularly in getting patients to feel better much more quickly than conventional approaches.").
>
> And, at the risk of pissing you off, I will say this: until you get your ED under control and start eating more than 500 calories a day, you will continue to have problems. Neither the body nor the mind can function optimally in a state of near starvation. If you can not bring yourself to eat solid foods, at least try some homemade protein shakes (using whey protein powder, fresh fruit, almonds, yogurt) and even baby food. (Smack, slap, pow - I have given myself a slap on your behalf :-) )
>
> Try to take care of yourself Maxime. And, please don't give up hope yet. Although you may not believe it now, you still have much to offer and to contribute.
>
> Tamara
>
Posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 21:16:33
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » TamaraJ, posted by Maxime on March 20, 2005, at 20:30:05
> I know you are right Tamara. But I only deserve 500 calories a day.
>
> I'm sure it would take months and months to see someone at the Royal Ottawa Hospital and I don't think I will be around by then.
Don't make me come out there...:-)
You are so objective and insightful when giving advice to other people. What advice would you give yourself if you weren't you?
Don't make me come out there...
- Scott
Posted by TamaraJ on March 20, 2005, at 21:29:24
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » TamaraJ, posted by Maxime on March 20, 2005, at 20:30:05
Yeah Maxime - don't make me come out there with Scott :-) You are a bright, talented and compassionate individual. Take care of that precious commodity. There are people you haven't even met yet, whose paths you have not yet crossed, whose lives may be changed for the better after having come into contact, either IRL on in cyberspace, with you.
I have said this before - if you can't bring yourself to eat solid food, pick up some whey protein powder, frozen fruit, yogurt and almonds and make some smoothies. They are very filling and very nutritious. And, I just learned that there are these new veggie/fruit drinks available in the grocery stores called Bolt (I think that's what they are called), chock full of vitamins and minerals.
Take care of yourself Maxime. We need you here at Babble. You make a difference.
All the best,
Tamara
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2005, at 22:10:27
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer » Maxime, posted by SLS on March 20, 2005, at 21:16:33
Maxime, If you can't eat get a good protein powder with soy and vitamins. Tell yourself the drink is for menopausal symptoms as soy helps. That way you don't have to associate it with food or calories. Play some psychology games with yourself and trick your own mind. You'll physically feel better too. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on March 21, 2005, at 13:50:50
In reply to Re: I can't hold out much longer, posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2005, at 22:10:27
There is no point. I called the coordinator for the DBS study and she can't even find the fax my doctor sent in last week. They were only going to do 10 subjects and they have already done 6. Really, what are the chances that I will in this study? So many people heard about that everyone has contacted them.
Screw it. I can't put up with feeling like this. Everyone says "hang on". Hang on to what?
Maxime
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