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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by AMD on November 2, 2004, at 14:16:13
Folks,
I feel myself going mad.
I was feeling good, calm, collected Wednesday night. Got some reading done, fell to sleep around 2 a.m.
I woke up at 9 a.m. to the /strong/ smell of paint fumes in my apartment, which I'd been sleeping in for probably an hour at least. They'd been painting my door (outside) and others in the area. I mean, it reeked of spray paint. (I checked and they were using oil-based paint with hazardous solvents.) I opened the window, smell began to dissipate, but I was already triggered into some obsession. Went back to bed.
Woke up a few hours later completely worried and freaked out. Went to the office; couldn't concentrate. Left early. Started to feel obsessive to the point of insanity. Felt like I literally had melted my brain cells. Couldn't think, couldn't think about thinking, without being filled with dread.
Went out Friday night and drank ... something I hadn't done in months. Saturday I still felt depressed. Went to the office and tried to concentrate on work, but instead spent hours online looking up brain damage as a result of paint fume inhalation. Went out Satruday as an escape, drank again, was too drunk to drive, so I slept in my car. Oh, smoked some weed, too. Finally drove home and got into bed around 5 a.m. Popped some Geodon, and slept in until 3 p.m. Monday.
Monday: missed work (slept all day), couldn't concentrate, and still felt as if my brain was melted and I would never be able to focus again. Went to bed last night early, and woke up today /still/ not feeling OK, still obsessing, and still depressed.
I'm trying to get some work done now, but I feel both physically sick and mentally perturbed. Still obsessing, but trying not to. I am a little calmer now.
0. How the &*$#&! could I have swirved into these debilitating feelings if it wasn't from the paint fumes? It MUST be from the fumes.
1. Any damage from the fumes, in reality?
2. Why is my head racing, am I unable to conentrate, and yet depressed? Did the paint do this?
3. I'm on Lamictal 200 mg, and Celexa 80 mg. I took Geodon twice this weekend, along with drinking episodes. Was this something that could have caused permanent cognitive damage?
4. If this is all in my head -- I am still unable to concentrate and feel scared to engage in any mental activity for fear of seeing how "stupid" I've now become -- I need a GOOD DRUG. Any recommendations? I'm worried Xanax will just exasperate the problem. I have some here, though, at a low dose.
5. I'm expected to be able to design complex security systems in this state? UGH!
Help! Dr. Bob, this is /meds/ related, not health related. Just wanted to extrapolate on the things I'm feeling and their triggers.
a
Posted by tampagirl70 on November 2, 2004, at 14:26:42
In reply to Going psycho...! Please read., posted by AMD on November 2, 2004, at 14:16:13
Not to sound stupid or belittling, but have you called your pdoc and asked him/her about any of this?
Posted by jujube on November 2, 2004, at 14:45:27
In reply to Going psycho...! Please read., posted by AMD on November 2, 2004, at 14:16:13
If you are concerned that the paint fumes may have caused some physical and psychological damage, you might want to call something like the Poison Control Centre (or Poison Information) to see if they can tell you if the paint fumes you have been exposed to could have such a toxic effect. Otherwise, you might want to go to Emergency and have a physician check you out. At least it would put your mind at ease.
Tamara
> Folks,
>
> I feel myself going mad.
>
> I was feeling good, calm, collected Wednesday night. Got some reading done, fell to sleep around 2 a.m.
>
> I woke up at 9 a.m. to the /strong/ smell of paint fumes in my apartment, which I'd been sleeping in for probably an hour at least. They'd been painting my door (outside) and others in the area. I mean, it reeked of spray paint. (I checked and they were using oil-based paint with hazardous solvents.) I opened the window, smell began to dissipate, but I was already triggered into some obsession. Went back to bed.
>
> Woke up a few hours later completely worried and freaked out. Went to the office; couldn't concentrate. Left early. Started to feel obsessive to the point of insanity. Felt like I literally had melted my brain cells. Couldn't think, couldn't think about thinking, without being filled with dread.
>
> Went out Friday night and drank ... something I hadn't done in months. Saturday I still felt depressed. Went to the office and tried to concentrate on work, but instead spent hours online looking up brain damage as a result of paint fume inhalation. Went out Satruday as an escape, drank again, was too drunk to drive, so I slept in my car. Oh, smoked some weed, too. Finally drove home and got into bed around 5 a.m. Popped some Geodon, and slept in until 3 p.m. Monday.
>
> Monday: missed work (slept all day), couldn't concentrate, and still felt as if my brain was melted and I would never be able to focus again. Went to bed last night early, and woke up today /still/ not feeling OK, still obsessing, and still depressed.
>
> I'm trying to get some work done now, but I feel both physically sick and mentally perturbed. Still obsessing, but trying not to. I am a little calmer now.
>
> 0. How the &*$#&! could I have swirved into these debilitating feelings if it wasn't from the paint fumes? It MUST be from the fumes.
>
> 1. Any damage from the fumes, in reality?
>
> 2. Why is my head racing, am I unable to conentrate, and yet depressed? Did the paint do this?
>
> 3. I'm on Lamictal 200 mg, and Celexa 80 mg. I took Geodon twice this weekend, along with drinking episodes. Was this something that could have caused permanent cognitive damage?
>
> 4. If this is all in my head -- I am still unable to concentrate and feel scared to engage in any mental activity for fear of seeing how "stupid" I've now become -- I need a GOOD DRUG. Any recommendations? I'm worried Xanax will just exasperate the problem. I have some here, though, at a low dose.
>
> 5. I'm expected to be able to design complex security systems in this state? UGH!
>
> Help! Dr. Bob, this is /meds/ related, not health related. Just wanted to extrapolate on the things I'm feeling and their triggers.
>
> a
Posted by mattsit on November 2, 2004, at 15:00:36
In reply to Re: Going psycho...! Please read. » AMD, posted by jujube on November 2, 2004, at 14:45:27
My opinion....You're worried about the paint fumes (which wouldnt have hurt you, trust me. The concentration of fumes that would be required to actually damage your brain is huge...and cant and would not have existed in an apartment situation).
Meanwhile you go out drinking and smoking marijuana....these two things ARE damaging to your brain, and do cause depression/anxiety, etc. Stop the obsessive thoughts and think about it for one second. It doesnt make any sense to worry about paint fumes when you are drinking to the point where you can't drive home and smoking drugs.
Posted by jboud24 on November 2, 2004, at 18:24:25
In reply to Going psycho...! Please read., posted by AMD on November 2, 2004, at 14:16:13
Try taking some xanax when you get a chance just to see if your reaction isn't an anxiety-related one to the paint fumes. If it helps you were probably just freaking out, which is normal. If the xanax doesn't help, go to see your GP doctor and explain this to him and ask him for options. You could get a neurological consult, but that would be expensive if you don't have insurance.
Also, consider the amount of paint fumes professional painters and the like come into contact with over a given period of time. Then again, who knows how that may affect their brain. Paint usually contains ammonia as a solvent or something like acetone/petroleum ethers. The solvents in paint fumes have been shown to cause neurological damage, but only after heavy, persistant exposure.
So, you're probably OK. Best wishes in finding the problem and treating it.
Justin
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2004, at 8:18:18
In reply to Going psycho...! Please read., posted by AMD on November 2, 2004, at 14:16:13
> Went out Friday night and drank ... something I hadn't done in months. Saturday I still felt depressed. Went to the office and tried to concentrate on work, but instead spent hours online looking up brain damage as a result of paint fume inhalation. Went out Satruday as an escape, drank again, was too drunk to drive, so I slept in my car. Oh, smoked some weed, too. Finally drove home and got into bed around 5 a.m. Popped some Geodon, and slept in until 3 p.m. Monday.
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. After this, therefore because of this. It's a logical fallacy to attribute causation to events that may simply follow one another in time. Although there may be a link between them, it may literally be coincidence.
It seems you're cognitively willing to attribute your mental state to paint fumes, but ignoring the effects of two nights of drinking, smoking pot, and taking Geodon while inebriated.
Drinking when you're not used to it, and moreover, drinking on sequential days, is very hard on you, both mentally and physically.
You didn't drink the paint. You only got some fumes from it. You drank the other solvent, errrr, alcohol.
I strongly suggest you see a doctor to obtain a short-acting benzo, like Xanax. Self-medicating with alcohol is a poor substitute for anxiolytic medication.
It is also possible that your current obsessiveness is related to the use of Geodon. It may be a stretch to generalize from some of the other atypicals with which we have more experience, but induction/exacerbation of OCD does happen with other similar drugs.
If you can swing it, you may also find some relief in cognitive-behavioural therapy, but that would be most useful after you get some relief from your acute symptoms.
I'm sorry you feel so vulnerable.
Lar
Posted by banga on November 3, 2004, at 10:15:34
In reply to Re: Going psycho...! Please read. » AMD, posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2004, at 8:18:18
Another completely different theory--take it or leave it....
When I went to treatment for alcoholism, I went to a "biorecovery" program that stressed the physical connection...and triggers-of alcoholism. Their theory would be that the paint fumes may have triggered intense cravings for alcohol--you became inebriated with the fumes, which led to cravings (possibly to distraction?) They would claim that your alcoholism is based on an extreme sensitivity to the chemical, so anything with alcohol (ethanol, etc.) would affect you; and lead to relapse. The director of the program talked about the % of painters in her program who just "have" to stop at the bar on the way home after work.....Though your symptoms seem quite drastic and perhaps can't be explained by this, I thought I'd mention this possibility--that maybe see it as an unintended substance abuse relapse, which further caused imbalance in chemistry, and the cycle is on.....
Posted by AMD on November 3, 2004, at 18:16:15
In reply to Re: Going psycho...! Please read., posted by banga on November 3, 2004, at 10:15:34
I don't think the paint fumes had anything to do with alcohol -- I think they triggered in me a reaction of "worry" that an ordinary person a) would not have had at all, or b) would have simply obviated by opening a window, and then forgetting about it.
In my case, however, that initial worry quickly descends into sheer obsessiveness to the point of actually "feeling" the symptoms I'd expect to have from the paint fumes themselves. But -- I don't really know what these feelings are. Instead, I am /depressed/ from the sudden panic -- and my depression causes the same symptoms I attribute to the paint fumes. So instead of saying, "I have entered a 'spontaneous' depression/OCD episode," I look instead for an external trigger that would explain the dive. And look, one is handy! It's the paint fumes!
The bigger problem is that I /still/ haven't been able to convince myself I /didn't/ do brain damage. I am trying -- but until I can get over that mental hurdle, I will continue to feel somewhat obsessed.
The alcohol drinking was a result of a bit of mania rearing its head -- that feeling of "fuck it, this depression is bullshit so I don't care what I do". I've calmed a bit since the weekend.
I am actually feeling a little more clear-headed now (at the office, and actually, I think I will be able to focus a bit today, maybe go to the gym), but because I still don't understand how I can have these physical and mental effects without an external influence (paint fumes, CO, etc.), it's hard for me to grasp the idea that they are not related. And thus, until I start feeling better -- and the cycle is typically one to two weeks -- I will point the finger at what triggered the episode to begin with. In hindsight, I can look back and say "that was ridiculous." But this current episode has been particularly vicious, and made it more difficult to think that paint fumes, in this case, didn't cause permanent damage.
It's a vicious cycle.
a
Posted by AMD on November 3, 2004, at 18:30:58
In reply to Re: Going psycho...! Please read. » AMD, posted by Larry Hoover on November 3, 2004, at 8:18:18
I'm switching meds so quickly now who knows where the real brain distress is coming from.
Anyhow -- I am going on 80 mg of Celexa and 400 mg of Lamictal until I stabilize again, and then I'll drop the Lamictal back down to 200 mg, and search from something to augment it so this cycle doesn't keep repeating.
Is this "normal," Larry, within the realm of bipolar II/OCD, that one can be perfectly fine, smell paint fumes, and suddenly dive into a mental hell? Wouldn't it HAVE to be the paint fumes that caused this? I just don't get it ...
a
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 2:01:56
In reply to Re: Going psycho...! Please read. » banga, posted by AMD on November 3, 2004, at 18:16:15
> The alcohol drinking was a result of a bit of mania rearing its head -- that feeling of "f[*]ck it, this depression is bullsh[*]t so I don't care what I do".
Please don't use language that could offend others.
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Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
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