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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
The message I got from my pdocs today was not to expect too much from meds, because my depression is severe and chronic, and I've taken every type of AD on the market. I'm going to a mood disorder clinic at a major university teaching hospital. It's supposed to be one of the top ten hospitals for psychiatry in the country.
They encouraged me to seek psychotherapy, but weren't real optimistic about that, either. They seem to regard it as a way for me to survive within my limitations.
I can't decide whether to be appalled by their lack of sensitivity or thankful for their honesty. Thoughts?
Posted by Cruz on October 19, 2004, at 0:16:50
In reply to Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
I'm in a similar situation. Allthough I am certain my disorder is endocrine based there is not undertstanding or treatment yet. In a few years there will be. What do we do till then? Keep trying things that become available. I'm trying Cymbalta now with occasional Nizoral and GH. If I was close to where a study was being done( I'm not ), I would like to try Mifepristone or a CRF antagonist or other meds that might change the HPA axis. It is discouraging the pathetic state of understanding of mood disorders, but if we can hang on we have an opportunity for a joyous life. Best wishes.
> The message I got from my pdocs today was not to expect too much from meds, because my depression is severe and chronic, and I've taken every type of AD on the market. I'm going to a mood disorder clinic at a major university teaching hospital. It's supposed to be one of the top ten hospitals for psychiatry in the country.
>
> They encouraged me to seek psychotherapy, but weren't real optimistic about that, either. They seem to regard it as a way for me to survive within my limitations.
>
> I can't decide whether to be appalled by their lack of sensitivity or thankful for their honesty. Thoughts?
Posted by smith562 on October 19, 2004, at 3:03:07
In reply to Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
Hey Ilene,
Sounds like your in a very frustrating position and suffering alot. Assuming you have tried all the medications out on the market (hopefully including Nardil and Parnate and combos of antidepressant with lithium or antiepileptic) you may want to consider ECT. Dr Steven Sackiem at Columbia has a treatment resistant program. I have heard at some points depression *can not* be helped by meds and ECT needs to use in order to make you responsive to meds again. Then after ECT he usually puts people on a TCA or effexor augmented with lithium with tremendous success.
All this being said, ECT often isnt needed and many treatment resistant people respond to some sort of antidepressant/mood stablizer combo (most being in this bipolar spectrum category).
Martha Manning wrote a great book on ECT (she being treatment resistant and a psychologist by training). She now is finally stable on zoloft, wellbutrin, lithium and depakote. So she was probably bipolar spectrum all along and wasn't depressed typically, but in a dysphoric mania.
Hope this helped. There are new meds in the future too.
Smith
Posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 9:27:32
In reply to Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
Sigh.
The way I look at it (for me) is that I have severe depression. I've been disabled for 8 of the last 10 years. I've tried so many meds. I've been in therapy. I'm still depressed.
BUT... My life, like all lives, changes. I may not be back at work, but I have started blowing leaves, and I removed quantities of dust from my family room, and I *did* clean out my freezer. I don't know if I'm getting better, or if I'm just learning to cope better. Dinah uses the term "glacial" to describe her progress. I think I could use that word, too. And lots of times I seem to be going backwards. But I know that if I gave up I would go backwards very quickly.
Changing from CBT to Psychodyanmic therapy was very helpful for me. Accepting a less-than-perfect medication cocktail that at least allows me to feel a little stable can be better than jumping on the "let's try a new med" rollercoaster.
My doctor is now saying that I may never go back to work full time. I don't like hearing this, but in a sense, it helps take the pressure off - and the pressure makes things worse for me.
So I guess I'm suggesting: Don't give up, there are new things around every corner. But don't demand unreasonable things from yourself either.
Posted by Ilene on October 19, 2004, at 11:25:29
In reply to Re: Unlikelihood of remission » Ilene, posted by smith562 on October 19, 2004, at 3:03:07
> Hey Ilene,
>
> Sounds like your in a very frustrating position and suffering alot. Assuming you have tried all the medications out on the market (hopefully including Nardil and Parnate and combos of antidepressant with lithium or antiepileptic) you may want to consider ECT. Dr Steven Sackiem at Columbia has a treatment resistant program. I have heard at some points depression *can not* be helped by meds and ECT needs to use in order to make you responsive to meds again. Then after ECT he usually puts people on a TCA or effexor augmented with lithium with tremendous success.
>
> All this being said, ECT often isnt needed and many treatment resistant people respond to some sort of antidepressant/mood stablizer combo (most being in this bipolar spectrum category).
>
> Martha Manning wrote a great book on ECT (she being treatment resistant and a psychologist by training). She now is finally stable on zoloft, wellbutrin, lithium and depakote. So she was probably bipolar spectrum all along and wasn't depressed typically, but in a dysphoric mania.
>
> Hope this helped. There are new meds in the future too.
>
> SmithI haven't tried Nardil or Parnate yet. I'm taking a different MAOI called Marplan. Augmenting it with Cytomel (thyroid hormone) gave it enough of a kick for me to respond, but I can't take any more Cytomel because I became hypothyroid. I tried lithium when I was hospitalized last spring, but it made my feet swell and I was just uncomfortable with it. I tried Lacmictal. I'm taking Neurontin. I was going to ask about trying estrogen because I'm entering menopause, but got side-tracked when the docs gave me the "don't expect too much" lecture. This is actually as good as I've been in years, but it's not enough for me to fend off despair.
It's possible I'm somewhere on the biplar spectrum, but I've never been manic or even hypomanic.
I don't think ECT is considered unless a person is persistently suicidal, which I'm not at this point. At the same time I don't feel like I have much to look forward to.
Posted by Ilene on October 19, 2004, at 11:35:18
In reply to Re: Unlikelihood of remission » Ilene, posted by fallsfall on October 19, 2004, at 9:27:32
> Sigh.
>
> The way I look at it (for me) is that I have severe depression. I've been disabled for 8 of the last 10 years. I've tried so many meds. I've been in therapy. I'm still depressed.
>
> BUT... My life, like all lives, changes. I may not be back at work, but I have started blowing leaves, and I removed quantities of dust from my family room, and I *did* clean out my freezer. I don't know if I'm getting better, or if I'm just learning to cope better. Dinah uses the term "glacial" to describe her progress. I think I could use that word, too. And lots of times I seem to be going backwards. But I know that if I gave up I would go backwards very quickly.
>Yes, I'd agree that cleaning out your freezer is "glacial" progress ;-)
I'm trying not to give up. Right now I'm angry at my doctors for telling me I will likely never be normal again. On the other hand, they treat lots of patients, so they speak with a certain amount of authority.
> Changing from CBT to Psychodyanmic therapy was very helpful for me. Accepting a less-than-perfect medication cocktail that at least allows me to feel a little stable can be better than jumping on the "let's try a new med" rollercoaster.
>
> My doctor is now saying that I may never go back to work full time. I don't like hearing this, but in a sense, it helps take the pressure off - and the pressure makes things worse for me.
>
> So I guess I'm suggesting: Don't give up, there are new things around every corner. But don't demand unreasonable things from yourself either.I'm trying not to be unreasonable. All I want is a normal life. Nothing special.
Posted by karaS on October 19, 2004, at 15:39:23
In reply to Re: Unlikelihood of remission » smith562, posted by Ilene on October 19, 2004, at 11:25:29
> > Hey Ilene,
> >
> > Sounds like your in a very frustrating position and suffering alot. Assuming you have tried all the medications out on the market (hopefully including Nardil and Parnate and combos of antidepressant with lithium or antiepileptic) you may want to consider ECT. Dr Steven Sackiem at Columbia has a treatment resistant program. I have heard at some points depression *can not* be helped by meds and ECT needs to use in order to make you responsive to meds again. Then after ECT he usually puts people on a TCA or effexor augmented with lithium with tremendous success.
> >
> > All this being said, ECT often isnt needed and many treatment resistant people respond to some sort of antidepressant/mood stablizer combo (most being in this bipolar spectrum category).
> >
> > Martha Manning wrote a great book on ECT (she being treatment resistant and a psychologist by training). She now is finally stable on zoloft, wellbutrin, lithium and depakote. So she was probably bipolar spectrum all along and wasn't depressed typically, but in a dysphoric mania.
> >
> > Hope this helped. There are new meds in the future too.
> >
> > Smith
>
> I haven't tried Nardil or Parnate yet. I'm taking a different MAOI called Marplan. Augmenting it with Cytomel (thyroid hormone) gave it enough of a kick for me to respond, but I can't take any more Cytomel because I became hypothyroid. I tried lithium when I was hospitalized last spring, but it made my feet swell and I was just uncomfortable with it. I tried Lacmictal. I'm taking Neurontin. I was going to ask about trying estrogen because I'm entering menopause, but got side-tracked when the docs gave me the "don't expect too much" lecture. This is actually as good as I've been in years, but it's not enough for me to fend off despair.
>
> It's possible I'm somewhere on the biplar spectrum, but I've never been manic or even hypomanic.
>
> I don't think ECT is considered unless a person is persistently suicidal, which I'm not at this point. At the same time I don't feel like I have much to look forward to.
Hi Ilene,
I guess that your doctors were trying to be honest with you but they didn't leave the door open for much hope. There are always new medications and new avenues of research opening up. At least they could have mentioned that.Also, it doesn't sound like you've exhausted all of the options available now yet. I remember reading here that Marplan, while it can be quite effective when it works, percentage-wise it doesn't help as many people as Nardil or Parnate. Both seem to be good medications for TRDs. Also, have you tried selegiline? The patch is expected out early next year. That also seems to be a good drug for treatment-resistant types. Have you tried stimulants at all? What about trying various supplements? I just read a post on the Alternative Board about someone who had no success on many antidepressants who is feeling much better on a particular regimen of supplements.
There are also all kinds of tests you can get done (usually more holistic physicians provide these services) that can detect enzyme deficiencies, spot inflammation problems, identify adrenal/HPA issues and even identify faulty genes which can all play a role in depression. There are so many other avenues to explore that mainstream psychiatrists are not trained in.Don't concede the fight yet! There are still many options!
Kara
Posted by Joslynn on October 21, 2004, at 21:18:21
In reply to Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
I have not had chronic depression. It's recurrent, but not chronic. So I cannot imagine your pain. But here's my .02:
I think a psychiatrist should give hope, not try to take it away.
Hopelessness is a symptom of depression already, I don't think doctors should add to it.
I say, hang on to your hope, any little shadow or shred or speck of it you can find.
I think that for me, in the past, hanging on to one little speck of hope made the depression feel just a tiny bit better, which then made the hopelessness less severe, and so on.
Posted by jerrympls on October 22, 2004, at 3:39:00
In reply to Re: Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Joslynn on October 21, 2004, at 21:18:21
So are we - the treatment-resistant - just supposed to sit back and accept a life of chronic discontent? If my doctor told me that I'd go home and kill myself. Doctors who give up on someone who has TRD by telling them "Just accept you're not going to get any better..." are doctors who are going against their oath not to harm. They're also showing their ignorance and unwillingness to do EVERYTHING in their power to get your depression in remission so you can return to a normal life. The doctor is also not supposed to give up. They tell us not to commit suicide/not to give up - and then they give up themselves. Digusting.
Get a new doctor.
Posted by anxiety_free on October 22, 2004, at 8:35:11
In reply to Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
Hi! There are probably still strategies for you to try...stimulants, mood-stabilizers, anti-psychotics, etc. Have you tried Amoxapine? (Just out of curiosity). Its an unusual but highly effect TCA/AP. ECT can and is done on the non-suicidal but treatment-resistant patient...that said, I'd back burner that unless nothing else works. Good luck and...corny as this sounds, keep going; fight the good fight. (I have BP and a thought disorder, so I can empathize with your plight).
Posted by yznhymer on October 22, 2004, at 10:55:03
In reply to Unlikelihood of remission, posted by Ilene on October 18, 2004, at 22:38:15
> The message I got from my pdocs today was not to expect too much from meds, because my depression is severe and chronic, and I've taken every type of AD on the market. I'm going to a mood disorder clinic at a major university teaching hospital. It's supposed to be one of the top ten hospitals for psychiatry in the country.
>
> They encouraged me to seek psychotherapy, but weren't real optimistic about that, either. They seem to regard it as a way for me to survive within my limitations.
>
> I can't decide whether to be appalled by their lack of sensitivity or thankful for their honesty. Thoughts?Looks like I'm in the minority here, but be thankful for their honesty. As a rule, honesty is the best policy and I don't see this falling into one of the exceptions.
First of all, we all kow the liklihood of remission is small even before they lay the news on us. My understanding is only about a third of patients achieve remission from meds, and another third receive only partial remission at best. A third get no relief at all. You've been through umpteen drug trials. The math is not hard.
Second, would you really be better off having your docs mislead you? Would your depression be any better? Shouldn't you know the liklihood of success before you take on the discomfort and potential health risks of another drug trial? Drug trials are not benign activities. You may decide to go through them anyway. I do, but I pick and choose a lot more carefully now than when I started this journey.
Third, your doc may be doing you a big economic favor. You don't want your doc mincing words when you're trying to access whatever benefits you may be entittled to. For example, I went out on disability retirement at virtually full pay three years ago due to my depression because my pdoc was willing to say (honestly)that my depression was likely to be permanent or last longer than a year. I can't tell you how huge that was in improving my life.
Fourth, improving the quality of your life within your limitations is not a bad thing. Meds, therapy, exercize, nutrition, supplements, alternative treatments, etc. individually may not provide remission but cumulatively may provide significant relief. Instead of pinning all your hopes on drug cocktails and feeling like a failure when they don't work for you, you've got some motivation to explore a much wider range of treatment options.
Fifth, in the final analysis, your doc's statement is just an opinion. You're free to accept or reject it, or find reason to believe you're going beat the odds, be the exception. People do that and I commend them for it.
I know what your doc told you is hard news to take, especially when one is feeling vulnerable to begin with. (Like you, I was somewhat shocked when my pdoc shared his opinion about the liklihood of remission with me and it took time to process.) Hopefully your pdoc delivered it with some compassion or at least professionalism like mine did. You're entitled to those. Your doc is not giving up on you, he's not refusing to work with you, he's not encouraging you to give up. He's just acknowledging a difficult truth: you (we) have a difficult row to hoe.
My point is that honesty and compassion are not mutually exclusive, nor are honesty and hope. Despite the fact that your doc thinks you're unlikley to achieve remission with currently available treatments, there is hope that research and new things in the pipeline may be the breakthrough you need.
Ultimately, we are responsible for generating our own hope. Pdocs don't cure us or even make us feel better. At best they can show us the way, provide us with tools.
I wish you the best...
M
Posted by Ilene on October 22, 2004, at 11:26:37
In reply to Be thankful for their honesty » Ilene, posted by yznhymer on October 22, 2004, at 10:55:03
> Looks like I'm in the minority here, but be thankful for their honesty. As a rule, honesty is the best policy and I don't see this falling into one of the exceptions.
>
> First of all, we all kow the liklihood of remission is small even before they lay the news on us. My understanding is only about a third of patients achieve remission from meds, and another third receive only partial remission at best. A third get no relief at all. You've been through umpteen drug trials. The math is not hard.
>
Right now I'm in partial remission. I think the drugs are working, but not completely.
> Second, would you really be better off having your docs mislead you? Would your depression be any better? Shouldn't you know the liklihood of success before you take on the discomfort and potential health risks of another drug trial? Drug trials are not benign activities. You may decide to go through them anyway. I do, but I pick and choose a lot more carefully now than when I started this journey.
>I think the drugs are keeping me afloat, but some of the SEs are getting me down. I've been gaining weight, which is depressing me.
> Third, your doc may be doing you a big economic favor. You don't want your doc mincing words when you're trying to access whatever benefits you may be entittled to. For example, I went out on disability retirement at virtually full pay three years ago due to my depression because my pdoc was willing to say (honestly)that my depression was likely to be permanent or last longer than a year. I can't tell you how huge that was in improving my life.
I haven't worked enough to get disability. My husband supports me. I'd be much worse off if I had to work.>
> Fourth, improving the quality of your life within your limitations is not a bad thing. Meds, therapy, exercize, nutrition, supplements, alternative treatments, etc. individually may not provide remission but cumulatively may provide significant relief. Instead of pinning all your hopes on drug cocktails and feeling like a failure when they don't work for you, you've got some motivation to explore a much wider range of treatment options.
>I've tried some of those remedies. Exercise triggers my chronic fatigue syndrome. Magnesium supplements seem to help a little. Fish oil was a failure. I will probably start psychotherapy soon, but my previous experiences with that were unsatisfactory. Drugs were what worked in the past.
> Fifth, in the final analysis, your doc's statement is just an opinion. You're free to accept or reject it, or find reason to believe you're going beat the odds, be the exception. People do that and I commend them for it.
>I'd like to prove them wrong.
> I know what your doc told you is hard news to take, especially when one is feeling vulnerable to begin with. (Like you, I was somewhat shocked when my pdoc shared his opinion about the liklihood of remission with me and it took time to process.) Hopefully your pdoc delivered it with some compassion or at least professionalism like mine did. You're entitled to those. Your doc is not giving up on you, he's not refusing to work with you, he's not encouraging you to give up. He's just acknowledging a difficult truth: you (we) have a difficult row to hoe.
>The pdoc who delivered the bad news supervises my regular pdoc, who is a resident, and I'm beginning to dislike her. She's just too inexperienced and "goes by the book". I'm questioning my decision to seek treatment at a teaching hospital, because I think my role as guinea pig is more important to them than treating me effectively. On the other hand, my previous pdoc was very supportive but worried too much about SEs and wasn't aggressive enough in treating me.
> My point is that honesty and compassion are not mutually exclusive, nor are honesty and hope. Despite the fact that your doc thinks you're unlikley to achieve remission with currently available treatments, there is hope that research and new things in the pipeline may be the breakthrough you need.
>Cymbalta seems to be the great hope right now, but it doesn't seem much better than Effexor, based on what I've read.
> Ultimately, we are responsible for generating our own hope. Pdocs don't cure us or even make us feel better. At best they can show us the way, provide us with tools.
>
> I wish you the best...
>
> MI often wish I could dispense with the pdoc and write my own scripts.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2004, at 1:34:41
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty » yznhymer, posted by Ilene on October 22, 2004, at 11:26:37
It`s hard to know which is better, honesty or lies. My pdoc has essentially told me the same thing, that the possibility of improvement with any med is remote, though he`s generally willing to write for whatever I want to try next. Periodically he suggests ECT, even though he knows that the one time I seriously considered it the anxiety pushed me into the worst my depression has ever been, I didn`t even want to eat and I`m the typical "atypical" depressive who ALWAYS wants to eat. I suppose it`s a legal thing, he can write in his chart that he`s suggested ECT and then if I kill myself he`s not liable, he`s suggested a treatment that I refused. Not that I have anyone in my life who would sue or care that much if I killed myself, but doctors are trained to always think in terms of liability. The trouble with depression is that it`s not like cancer, where, when they tell you there`s no more treatments to try you`ll probably die soon, with depression you go on living; they can tell you there`s absolutely nothing we can do for you and yet legally they still have to force you to stay alive, hospitalizing you if necessary. All things considered, I guess it`s better for them to hold out a little hope. Though I still feel a lot of anger at my ex-therapist, who took my money and held out hope for 7 years. I still don`t know whether she just wanted the money or whether she really believed she could spin straw into gold. But at least my pdoc always makes me feel like it`s my choice whether to go through another brutal med trial or not. Cecilia
Posted by Ilene on October 23, 2004, at 12:20:52
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty, posted by Cecilia on October 23, 2004, at 1:34:41
> It`s hard to know which is better, honesty or lies. My pdoc has essentially told me the same thing, that the possibility of improvement with any med is remote, though he`s generally willing to write for whatever I want to try next. Periodically he suggests ECT, even though he knows that the one time I seriously considered it the anxiety pushed me into the worst my depression has ever been, I didn`t even want to eat and I`m the typical "atypical" depressive who ALWAYS wants to eat. I suppose it`s a legal thing, he can write in his chart that he`s suggested ECT and then if I kill myself he`s not liable, he`s suggested a treatment that I refused. Not that I have anyone in my life who would sue or care that much if I killed myself, but doctors are trained to always think in terms of liability. The trouble with depression is that it`s not like cancer, where, when they tell you there`s no more treatments to try you`ll probably die soon, with depression you go on living; they can tell you there`s absolutely nothing we can do for you and yet legally they still have to force you to stay alive, hospitalizing you if necessary. All things considered, I guess it`s better for them to hold out a little hope. Though I still feel a lot of anger at my ex-therapist, who took my money and held out hope for 7 years. I still don`t know whether she just wanted the money or whether she really believed she could spin straw into gold. But at least my pdoc always makes me feel like it`s my choice whether to go through another brutal med trial or not. Cecilia
They are holding out a little hope--they say the meds can make me a *little* better, and that I might be an exception to the rule. They also recommended psychotherapy, but it doesn't seem like it did you much good. Why do you think you didn't get anything out of it? What kind of therapy was it?
Posted by jerrympls on October 23, 2004, at 20:39:01
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty » Cecilia, posted by Ilene on October 23, 2004, at 12:20:52
these posts are making me depressed to the point of suicide. I'm off work with NO disability support, NO pay. I'm dying and no one cares. Seems like the message I get from this is to give up and simply exist. I think I'll just go kill myself now.
Goodbye
Posted by Cecilia on October 24, 2004, at 3:07:17
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty, posted by jerrympls on October 23, 2004, at 20:39:01
Sorry if I made you more depressed. Really, there IS always hope, no matter what any doctor says. They don`t know everything, they`re just people, even though some act like they think they`re God. Cecilia
Posted by Cecilia on October 24, 2004, at 3:42:22
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty » Cecilia, posted by Ilene on October 23, 2004, at 12:20:52
Why didn`t therapy help me? I just don`t know. I`ve obsessed and obsessed about this. Number one: inability to trust. Fear of getting better. Transference, countertransference, resistance. Feeling that getting better =losing my therapist. Feelng that getting better=my mother won. Feeling that getting better=my therapist won. Extreme social phobia and anxiety. Feeling that I didn`t deserve to get better. Self-hate. Shame. The list could go on forever. Obviously, this was psychodynamic therapy, though once in a whie she`d try to throw in a few CBT principles. I just don`t respond to the CBT stuff at all, though most pdocs think it`s "scientific" and the only thing that works. To me, it`s so invalidating, trying to make yourself believe "rational" thoughts that aren`t true. Yes, I`ve tried it too, though only for a short time, not the 632 sessions I spent with my psychodynamic therapist, because I was so obsessed with her, so desperately hoping it would work, so lonely. Towards the end she told me "I can`t help you, you obviously need to be depressed." Maybe that`s true. I don`t even know who I`d be if I weren`t depressed. Cecilia
Posted by Ilene on October 24, 2004, at 19:18:40
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty-Ilene, posted by Cecilia on October 24, 2004, at 3:42:22
> Why didn`t therapy help me? I just don`t know. I`ve obsessed and obsessed about this. Number one: inability to trust. Fear of getting better. Transference, countertransference, resistance. Feeling that getting better =losing my therapist. Feelng that getting better=my mother won. Feeling that getting better=my therapist won. Extreme social phobia and anxiety. Feeling that I didn`t deserve to get better. Self-hate. Shame. The list could go on forever. Obviously, this was psychodynamic therapy, though once in a whie she`d try to throw in a few CBT principles. I just don`t respond to the CBT stuff at all, though most pdocs think it`s "scientific" and the only thing that works. To me, it`s so invalidating, trying to make yourself believe "rational" thoughts that aren`t true. Yes, I`ve tried it too, though only for a short time, not the 632 sessions I spent with my psychodynamic therapist, because I was so obsessed with her, so desperately hoping it would work, so lonely. Towards the end she told me "I can`t help you, you obviously need to be depressed." Maybe that`s true. I don`t even know who I`d be if I weren`t depressed. Cecilia
I think your "reasons" are actually symptoms of depression.CBT is highly regarded partly because it is formalized and therefore easy to evaluate. There are people who respond well to it and people who don't. I haven't read anything about the characteristics of the different groups. It would be interesting to know it there were differences.
I haven't gotten much from therapy but I'm willing to give it one more try.
Posted by jerrympls on October 24, 2004, at 19:46:52
In reply to Re: Be thankful for their honesty-Jerrympis, posted by Cecilia on October 24, 2004, at 3:07:17
> Sorry if I made you more depressed. Really, there IS always hope, no matter what any doctor says. They don`t know everything, they`re just people, even though some act like they think they`re God. Cecilia
Thanks Cecilia...cause right now I have very little hope and I have to hold on....thanks for your reply.
Jerry ;-)
Posted by Cecilia on October 25, 2004, at 3:44:23
In reply to Therapy » Cecilia, posted by Ilene on October 24, 2004, at 19:18:40
Thanks, Ilene. Intellectually, I know that the reasons I failed therapy are the same reasons I needed therapy. Emotionally, I blame myself. Therapy is just so incredibly intense. And so addicting. Even though it isn`t helping you feel like you would crawl through hot coals to keep your therapist from abandoning you. I just don`t know if I have the strength to try that again. Whereas with my pdoc I have no emotional attachment whatsoever. The meds could just as easiy be dispensed by machine. (Except I wouldn`t be as terrified of a machine). Cecilia
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