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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
ever since my manic symptoms began to show themselves, I have not been seeing things properly. Things like paper, and white eggs that I know should appear white are a pale yellow or red.
Does anyone else have these symptoms. Perhaps the cheep fish oil I was taking was full of mercury or something.
I personally don't think I have bipolar disorder. I have some of the classic symptoms like mind racing but other problems I have make no sense like.
- Distorted vision color changes from brilliant
bright colors to dull faded and grey within
hours. (my mood remains the same through all
of this)- Distorted perceptions. Cars look like faces.
Objects shrink and grow; look very real, then
not real at all.- Distorted perceptions of own looks. Within a
few hours I will look weak and scronny, then I
think I will look muscular. I've recognized
this.- Ballance problems. Sensation of being pushed
from behind. Feeling heavy then light.- Body taking controll of me. As if my legs are
moving me without my controll even.- Suicidal then extremely normal all within
a few hours.- Feel it all happening within my head. Evey time my mood changes, or vision changes, then it's like the pressure changes in various parts of my head. Like when I'm verry irritable, there is a strong pressure in the back of my head.
But you must understand, that beneath all of this, it is like I am still the same. I mean that all of this is happeneing like a movie or television show. I don't believe it at all, and I know it's just my mind. I don't feel bipolar because it's like this is all happeneing to me, that I am not initiating it.
Is there any way this could be a symptom of somthing else.
I just turned 20, and the doctors don't seem to listen to the other symptoms.
Has anyone had any of the above symptoms. ??
THanks
Linkadge
Posted by zenclearer on August 10, 2003, at 21:34:58
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
Do you take stims?
Some of the things you describe (vision changes, and altered body sense) are problems I developed on stims. Especially the vivid color to grey quality. I have attributed that to dope depletion and brain fatigue from stim use.
Posted by jlo820 on August 10, 2003, at 21:43:24
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
Posted by mattdds on August 10, 2003, at 21:56:14
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
Linkadge,
The perceptual changes you describe sound a lot like depersonalization / derealization, classic symptoms of anxiety. You did a good job explaining it. I think this is more indicative of severe anxiety than bipolar. But then again, I'm no expert on bipolar. So perhaps individuals with BP get this too?
BTW, these symptoms were really stubborn for me. They still come back, even though I don't feel anxious anymore. They do get better with (a lot) of time though.
Best,
Matt
Posted by DSCH on August 10, 2003, at 22:08:02
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
Linkadge, those sound to me like a lot of the things described by Hoffmann after his first accidental exposure to LSD through the skin during preparation and then his deliberate dose of 250 micrograms. Do you have kaliedascopic and mosaic images with eyes closed? Do sounds trigger changes in your visual perception?
Posted by DSCH on August 10, 2003, at 22:16:48
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
In 2000 I was under quite a bit of stress and spending long hours in the office.
Once, my head became extremely hot, and I was compelled to head to the washroom and stick my head in a sink and run cold water over it and eventually lay down. I don't remember this being accompanied by tachycardia or any other symptoms or sensations. Just heat.
Another time, I felt great pressure bearing downwards in the middle of my head about at the level and just behind my sinuses.
Posted by Jaynee on August 10, 2003, at 23:09:41
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
This sounds like a normal everyday for me. I look good, then I don't. Things are bright then they aren't. I want to kill myself then I don't. I think it is just being over sensitive to ones envirnoment. Or maybe those god damn Old Norse genes.
Posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 7:01:14
In reply to Time to take off the Rose Colored Glasses, posted by Jaynee on August 10, 2003, at 23:09:41
My current diagnosis is bipolar but I don't really know if thats the case.
I am supposed to be taking Celexa 10 mg and Lithium 600 mg, but the mixture just puts me into a rage that neither does alone.
I have not taken stims although I take a lot of folic acid and b12. But I've experimented with that on and off and doesn't seem to matter.
When I close my eyes I see nothing. I have never done LSD/MDMA etc. I just dont know which reality to trust. THe light reality or the heavy one. The small reality or the large one.
My brain is just plain *fried* after coming off the lithium. Just totally fried.
I don't know what went wrong. I was loving and caring before I entered my first year of university. I visited my grandmother in the old age home every day in the summer months.
I have to work a night shift janitor job and all I know how to do now is hate. I just want to die because I just hate everyone and everything. I cannot explain it any other way except I just absolutely hate everything. I just want to smash everyhing and everybody.
When I started lithium I was perhaps euphoric manic, now Its just turned rotten, and my mind can't figure out weather Im manic or depressed.
Damn lithium. The stuffs more addictive than Celexa. You just go kooky getting off the stuff. Absolutely kookey. Your brain just goes haywire.
when I started it, yes I was euphoric but I could still get my thoughts straight. I wasn't suicidal in the slightest. I understand lithium is antisuicidal. But thats all the doctors care about, is weather or not you kill yourself. They really couldn't care less about the quality of your life. Lithium keeps you consistantly 30% below normal mental activity. YOu just cannot think in university, plain and simple. YOu cannot grasp anything. You try and explain to the doctor "I am not depressed I just cannot think properly - my brain is too slow" And If you take less lithium you go manic. And if you take antidepressant you go manic. Theres no damn ballance. Every single time you say to yourself "this is somewhere that I like - somewhere that I feel normal" then back comes that pressure to suceeed. That damn little thing inside you that says "now that you're thinking like yourself again you can get better marks than everyone - why not if you can" As soon as my brain knows that it can do better than others it will not let up untill it does do better.
I just want to die. Plain and simple.
There is nothing that can achieve sanity in me. I want to feel capable of doing stuff, but its the restraint I lack. The thing that says you can but you wont because there are better things to life than sucess. All mood stabalizers do is make you feel like you can't. They make you feel useless and weak, humble, and just like a nobody. Like you're nothing special just another brick on the wall. Thats the only way they can stop you from going is by making it mentally and pysically impossible to do so.
I know what you're going to say. Oh you need help and you need to call somebody. But I just don't care anymore. I've had so many heart palpitions and skipped beats that my heart is just a weak piece of mush. Even if I get better I will just die of a heart attack in a few years.
I just have this deathwish that I just don't even care to try and change. I used to be religious now I can't find anything to beleive in anymore. Shure I'll get better, but it'll just be the drugs.
Why am I even posting this?
Linkadge
Posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 14:26:49
In reply to Re: Time to take off the Rose Colored Glasses, posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 7:01:14
Linkadge,
Some people diagnosed bipolar also have problems with paranoia and hallucinations coming on after they stop meds. Here's an example I found...
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch8.aspShe complained of spaciness from lithium (like your unfortunate "30% below normal mental activity"?) and was switiched to Depakote and apparantly had that cleared up.
She had the walls talking to her rather than the visual distortions you describe.
Posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 14:40:26
In reply to Re: Time to take off the Rose Colored Glasses » linkadge, posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 14:26:49
After about 5 hours of writing my previous post I felt a shrinking sensation. The pressure left the back of my head and I started to yawn (which I never do when I'm suicidal)
I am trying to present my mood as acurately as possible. This morning I was suicidally depressed, and very agitated. Now none of that makes sence to me, I am calm happy and watching senifeld.
I don't understand
Linkadge
Posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 14:49:42
In reply to Those feelings are gone, posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 14:40:26
> After about 5 hours of writing my previous post I felt a shrinking sensation. The pressure left the back of my head and I started to yawn (which I never do when I'm suicidal)
>
> I am trying to present my mood as acurately as possible. This morning I was suicidally depressed, and very agitated. Now none of that makes sence to me, I am calm happy and watching senifeld.
>
>
> I don't understand
>
>
> Linkadge
>Woah! *blinks*
How long did your angry and depressed episode last?
I take it your visual sense is back to normal too, yes?
Maybe you should start a diary and show this your doc, making time entries.
Posted by McPac on August 11, 2003, at 15:38:43
In reply to Re: Time to take off the Rose Colored Glasses, posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 7:01:14
"Damn lithium. The stuffs more addictive than Celexa. You just go kooky getting off the stuff. Absolutely kookey. Your brain just goes haywire".
>>>>>>>>>> I've posted before asking whether or not stopping Lithium had a "withdrawal" state, just like other meds do (ssri's for example)....just don't see much of anything about lithium withdrawal (IS there such a thing???)....I felt terrible after stopping lithium once, wasn't sure if it was lithium-type withdrawal or what exactly.
Posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 17:47:46
In reply to Those feelings are gone, posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 14:40:26
> After about 5 hours of writing my previous post I felt a shrinking sensation. The pressure left the back of my head and I started to yawn (which I never do when I'm suicidal)
>
> I am trying to present my mood as acurately as possible. This morning I was suicidally depressed, and very agitated. Now none of that makes sence to me, I am calm happy and watching senifeld.
>
>
> I don't understand
>
>
> Linkadge
>What have you ingested lately (48-72 hours)? Don't discount anything. There might be a valuable clue as to what turns on or turns off or does both to these episodes.
Posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 17:52:55
In reply to Those feelings are gone, posted by linkadge on August 11, 2003, at 14:40:26
> After about 5 hours of writing my previous post I felt a shrinking sensation. The pressure left the back of my head and I started to yawn (which I never do when I'm suicidal)
Yawning might be a valuable clue all by itself.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=9551709&dopt=AbstractCome to think of it... I very rarely yawn I think. Hmmmmm.
Posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 18:01:35
In reply to Yawning » linkadge, posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 17:52:55
> > After about 5 hours of writing my previous post I felt a shrinking sensation. The pressure left the back of my head and I started to yawn (which I never do when I'm suicidal)
>
> Yawning might be a valuable clue all by itself.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=9551709&dopt=Abstract
>
> Come to think of it... I very rarely yawn I think. Hmmmmm.Sorry, even I have trouble getting anything out of that abstract. This might be more helpful.
Posted by amy_oz on August 11, 2003, at 19:24:24
In reply to Link, Time to take off the Rose Colored Glasses, posted by McPac on August 11, 2003, at 15:38:43
Hi,
Your moods etc sound similar to what myself and some other BP people I know have been through. Its quite possible you are going through a mixed manic/depressive episode. It certainly describes a large no. of your symptoms, racing thoughts, rapid mood changes, irritability. etc etc Also you can experience delusions, hallucinations, derealisation etc etc (I thought the world was ending so what was the point of living then I kept getting these shocked feelings that theworld existed at all!)The best meds for mixed episodes are depakote and atypical antipsychotics. The antipsychotics not only get rid of any delusions ets but they also slow you down so you can breathe again.
Please look up details about mixed episodes. You say that you're not BP but have experienced mania, but experiencing mania is what defines you as BP and not unipolar.
I also think the idea of keeping a diary is a good one.
with warm regards,
Amy
Posted by galkeepinon on August 12, 2003, at 1:58:48
In reply to Re: Those feelings are gone » linkadge, posted by DSCH on August 11, 2003, at 14:49:42
Posted by rod on August 12, 2003, at 8:52:29
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
HI Linkage,
look at
"Indicators Suggestive of Subsyndromal Epilepsy"
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/isse.htmlyou can find many of your symptoms there.
An interesting thing about Lithium: It is pro-convulsive and is able to trigger seizuers in non epilepsy peolpe (like most ADs) Lithium is also a big no no while doing ECT, because of its pro-seizure capabilities. Lithium + Pilocarpine (a drug working on the cholinergic system) is the most often used way (I think) to induce seizures in various studies. Its called the "lithium-pilocarpine model of epilepsy".
I am not sure about your sympoms. Could it even be psychosis? When you stand or sit still, do you sometimes think you are moving, drifting? Thats one question of a psychosis questionarie. But on the other hand, Lithium should work as an mild antipsychotic. So maybe its a quasi seizure, or something like that.
That was just my personal opinion. The opinion of a non medical professional... But maybe it gives you some new perspectives
take care
Roland
Posted by wcfrench on August 12, 2003, at 13:07:58
In reply to my vision is all red, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2003, at 21:15:08
Hey Link
It sounds like you are on some sort of bad trip that won't go away? I've never had symptoms that weird, but anything odd I have had usually happened within the first few days of starting a med. Antipsychotics gave me very weird feelings, such as paranoia, tiny distant music that wasn't there, and bouts of grandeur. I got a euphoric energy high when starting Lithium, but after that it didn't seem to do anything except make my pee smell really bad. I was on Lithium and a bunch of other stuff (switching) and it all kind of sucked.
BCat suggested that Lamictal might help and it was actually the best thing I've taken out of about 20 meds. I tried 5HTP, fish oil, B supplements, and other stuff, and it either made me worse or did nothing, so I stayed away from it.
Well you definitely need a mood stabilizer if you are suicidal one moment then watching TV happy another moment. Did you ever take Depakote or Lamictal or anything like that? My doc just prescribed me Gabatril which is kind of like a mood stabilizer with anti-anxiety effect. Anyway, I guess my point is that Lithium is the old standard, but didn't work for me at all. Life sucks and life is great. The bipolar quote of the century.
See ya good luck.
Take care
Charlie
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