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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by shrimp on June 8, 2003, at 18:35:43
Hi, this is my first posting, forgive me if it is long, disjointed, and rambling. Most of this is just venting, to see if anyone can really relate, because those in the real world never can, and i need some sort of connection. It's almost surreal, how disconnected i become, like I'm constantly walking around with a bad, a really bad, marijuana high. Much worse of course. I could be around mobs of people, and i would still feel completely alone, as i do with my boyfriend. I have been depressed for ten years, with intermittent periods of paralyzing,major depression. My boss actually asked me the other day why i wasn't hospitalized last year (my boyfriend left me and i lost 25 lbs., went down to 95 lbs. and my hair was falling out). I've tried Prozac-great for 3 mos., then became tired and apathetic,Zoloft, with Cylert, Wellbutrin and Provigil augmentation to no avail -similar to Prozac, Paxil, similar to other SSRI's. I actually think the SSRI's made my depression worse after they stopped working, if that makes any sense. they made me numb, never happy, never sad, disconnected. Had a great, actually perfect, one day remission with St. John's Wort, and also with the Zoloft/Cylert, but just one day. Parnate, great at first, pooped out, wound up raising dosage to 90, and my p-doc did not want to raise it. I'm currently on Nardil 60mg., with Wellbutrin, 400 mg. I had an amazing 3 days in week 4 on Nardil 45 mg. i finally felt like myself, and could not believe that people get to experience the sort of pleasure that is not avalable to depressives, all of a sudden life was in techicolor, my mind cleared completely, and i felt motivated and energetic. Of course, that did not last, and i sunk back. I've been on 60 mg. for about 3 days, and i'm shaky,tired,and extraordinarily weak. My vision is also a little funky. I am completely unable to exercise. While my mood is better, the anhedonia and lack of motivation persists.
Oh, a little background for those that care. My grandmother was schizophrenic and had Alzheimers, my uncle was schizophrenic, every last one of my uncles and my grandfather were alcoholics, as is my brother i suspect, and i have long dected signs of depression in my mother. Don't know if hers is heredity or the result of a highly traumatic childhood. I was alcoholic in my early, mid twenties, but i no longer drink. AD's suck, no sex, no cheese, no booze-just for one day to be able to experience it all, but i've pretty much resigned myself to my life as an AD guinea pig.
Oh, for those concerned with weight gain on nardil, this combo has caused me to lose weight. I'm almost never hungry. I don't know if this combo is contraindicated, as i couldn't find any postings, but no seizures yet!
The worst thing, and the things none of these meds can touch (nardil helps a bit), is I truly feel like i have lost my mind, literally. I graduated top of my class, always won academic awards, have been published blah blah blah and now i am a total dumbass. When i am depressed, i am unable to read, i can read a sentence over 10 times, and not tell you what ist means. I also cannot write. I am constantly thinking through mud. I've lost my vocabulary, which was always great. I cannot connect with anyone, so i don't have any support system outside of my boyfriend, and understandably, he is losing his patience. When i was not depressed, i had an incredibly active social life. This is agonizing for me, as i am a screenwriter, I am (was) extremely social and curious about life, and reading is my favorite pastime. I used to be really confident about my intellectual abilities, and my potential to really succed in life, and now i constantly feel like i'm learning disabled, I can't even compose a sentence sometimes. last night i read a letter that i had written a friend 7 years ago, and it sounded like someone else wrote it, it was clear, concise, witty, and funny, and it was a sad, sad reminder of the person i might never be again. I couldn't stop crying. I feel like I've lost my 20's, an entire decade, and i feel like some anemic, 90 yr. old version of myself, who is basically useless, just taking up space. It's indescribably painful. At these times, i wish i were dead, as I am normally very cerebral, and the depression has stolen my best quality, the one i consider the most important in life. When you brain basically shuts down, and you are completely incapable of experiencing pleasure, what's the point of being here? Has anyone tried the combo of Nardil and Wellbutrin? Will these side effects go away? Will it poop out? Since i am atypical, and i've tried parnate, i feel like i am running out of options, and i'm just so tired of taking a med, and not knowing who i'm going to be the next day. After 5 years of meds, i just feel so hopeless. And worst of all, never being able to plan a future or experience the joy of having children. So will this combo work? Has anyone tried it? Is there other options for really tough, deep seated atypical depression with social phobia? is there anything i could be augmenting it with? I'm olny 100 lbs., are these too many meds? I guess the alternative is worse. I've just started taking the flax oil, and a B supplement. Tried fish oil, made me reek, so will start eating gross canned salmon daily, along with usual diet of 8 pill/day. Any help, any tips or comments or even commiseration would hopefully dissipate this horrible lonliness.
Posted by SLS on June 8, 2003, at 20:25:59
In reply to Nardil with Wellbutrin, sorry so long, first posti, posted by shrimp on June 8, 2003, at 18:35:43
I can relate.
You are not alone.
- Scott
Posted by Questionmark on June 9, 2003, at 0:55:42
In reply to Nardil with Wellbutrin, sorry so long, first posti, posted by shrimp on June 8, 2003, at 18:35:43
Hey. i'm so sorry you feel this way. It's terrible.
Yeah, one of the worst things about debilitating mental illness, for me at least, is the feeling of all the lost time-- and when the heck is it gonna end?. But.. many people do come out of it, it seems-- even those with severe depression.
Oh, and i definitely know what it's like to feel disconnected from everyone. i dont feel it like some do, but, i really feel it. Sometimes it's terrible.Don't give up on your current meds yet. Give it some time. Maybe up one and lower another; i dunno-- see what your dr says. Good luck though. Sincerely.
i'm curious-- if you dont mind my asking-- how is it that you went from what seems to be a happy well-adjusted person to one so depressed & everything as you are currently? Was there a precipitating life event or something? If not, that's really strange.
But just as you have fallen so low, maybe you can also get back to happiness. i hope you do. Good luc w/ everything.
Posted by shrimp on June 9, 2003, at 7:13:00
In reply to Re: , posted by Questionmark on June 9, 2003, at 0:55:42
Basically, I have been dysthymic since my late teens, but i was still ok, the depression started, i think, when i had to leave college and come home because my parents were divorcing. It started out as mild depression, and since i was drinking so much, it was exacerbated. From then on, i slept and ate a lot, basically all the time, and was miserable in general, but could still think clearly. The debilitating depression started probably when i was around 24, and the episodes have been closer and closer together ever since, and now it's pretty much a permanent state. I don't really know what triggered the major depression, but i do know it started before my period, and eventually extended to most of the month. Also, for a while i didn't really know what it was, and i went totally untreated with meds, which i guess allowed it to get worse and worse.
> Hey. i'm so sorry you feel this way. It's terrible.
> Yeah, one of the worst things about debilitating mental illness, for me at least, is the feeling of all the lost time-- and when the heck is it gonna end?. But.. many people do come out of it, it seems-- even those with severe depression.
> Oh, and i definitely know what it's like to feel disconnected from everyone. i dont feel it like some do, but, i really feel it. Sometimes it's terrible.
>
> Don't give up on your current meds yet. Give it some time. Maybe up one and lower another; i dunno-- see what your dr says. Good luck though. Sincerely.
>
> i'm curious-- if you dont mind my asking-- how is it that you went from what seems to be a happy well-adjusted person to one so depressed & everything as you are currently? Was there a precipitating life event or something? If not, that's really strange.
> But just as you have fallen so low, maybe you can also get back to happiness. i hope you do. Good luc w/ everything.
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 9, 2003, at 9:55:31
In reply to Re: , posted by shrimp on June 9, 2003, at 7:13:00
I'm curious, why did you choose "Shrimp" as your name?
I was bright and intelligent and everyone expected me to conquer the world and do great things. Instead I crashed and burned, thanks to alcohol and depression. I have completely lost who I was. I don't worry about world problems & SARS. For some reason, I was born being my own worst enemy. I self destruct. But I keep trying. I'm back on med's (currently Effexor) and I'm going to therapy. Right now I'm balanced (it always feels like a tightrope act) and sometimes I even catch glimpses of who I used to be. And now I am uniquely qualified to appreciate what everyone *normal* takes for granted: life.
Take baby steps. They add up.
Do you have any pets?
Good luck, Kim
Posted by indivmed on June 9, 2003, at 15:23:26
In reply to Nardil with Wellbutrin, sorry so long, first posti, posted by shrimp on June 8, 2003, at 18:35:43
I started taking Wellbutrin with Parnate (started Parnate a week ago) yesterday and it has REALLY kicked in--I took Wellbutrin for years and sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't, but with Parnate it seems to really do the job. Of course, that is today :).
Posted by shrimp on June 9, 2003, at 15:23:57
In reply to Re: , posted by KimberlyDi on June 9, 2003, at 9:55:31
My boyfriend's name for me, i am tiny, shrimp size . i was self destructive for a long time, but not any longer, yet depression remains. Does therapy help? i guess i'm skeptical, because so far only meds have temporarily erased the brain fog, if anyone has ANY suggestions for the thinking through mud problem, please let me know. nardil is making me tired between 3-8 , i could literally sleep sitting up at my desk, but then after 8 i seem to wake up. Will this sleepiness subside, or should i drop nardil? Oh, and i have a great dog, who i love to death, probably more than i like people.
> I'm curious, why did you choose "Shrimp" as your name?
>
> I was bright and intelligent and everyone expected me to conquer the world and do great things. Instead I crashed and burned, thanks to alcohol and depression. I have completely lost who I was. I don't worry about world problems & SARS. For some reason, I was born being my own worst enemy. I self destruct. But I keep trying. I'm back on med's (currently Effexor) and I'm going to therapy. Right now I'm balanced (it always feels like a tightrope act) and sometimes I even catch glimpses of who I used to be. And now I am uniquely qualified to appreciate what everyone *normal* takes for granted: life.
>
> Take baby steps. They add up.
>
> Do you have any pets?
>
> Good luck, Kim
Posted by indivmed on June 9, 2003, at 15:33:11
In reply to Nardil with Wellbutrin, sorry so long, first posti, posted by shrimp on June 8, 2003, at 18:35:43
Oh, I forgot to mention that I also have experienced the life-altering change of a total decent into madness. While in high school, I was 2nd in my class, a state champion in swimming, and totally on the ball. This continued into my 1st year of college, but in the fall of my 2nd year, I went into the most horrendous depression I have ever experienced (I was literally in bed for weeks at a time--I should have been hospitalized).
Since then, I have watched my emotional life cycle out of control--no confidence in my abilities, I now have this body dysmorphic thing going, I am OCD as hell when it comes to my mistakes and my failures, I can attain *some* success only to lose it because of another f***ing depression cycle--my professors and boss got/get tired of hearing it. Not to mention my hypomanias that make me act belligerent and obnoxious.
Of course, changing meds because they don't work only makes it all seem more hopeless and insane. I don't know...this Parnate/Wellbutrin combo seems to be working well, but then again, so did 90% of the other meds I used--only for them to stop working or lose their effectiveness after a few months (you name it, I've been on it--anti-convulsants, anti-depressants, stimulants, hypnotics, benzos, anti-psychotics, TCAs)--the MAOI was really the last straw besides ECT.
Sorry for the depressing outlook, but I totally hear you when you talk about the contrast between who you were and who you are now. It is unbelievable living with a mental illness. Some people have no idea of what we go through...thank god my partner is patient and knows how to deal with me and my moods.
Have a good day :)
Rick
Posted by shrimp on June 9, 2003, at 17:04:25
In reply to Re: Nardil with Wellbutrin, sorry so long, first posti, posted by indivmed on June 9, 2003, at 15:23:26
God, i can't even remember if i tried wellbutrin with the parnate! but that sounds like it could be a fun combination. You must have a lot of energy, which is one of my problems. I am a lethargic slug. I probably have tried it, my p-doc loves wellbutrin, has augmented everything with it. Wait, maybe he thought the Welli was too risky with the parnate, but now he is trying it with nardil since nothing else worked, maybe i could try it. Parnate is amazing while it's working. Enjoy it, I hope that you are successful with it.
> I started taking Wellbutrin with Parnate (started Parnate a week ago) yesterday and it has REALLY kicked in--I took Wellbutrin for years and sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn't, but with Parnate it seems to really do the job. Of course, that is today :).
Posted by lawrence S. on June 9, 2003, at 22:41:14
In reply to Nardil with Wellbutrin, sorry so long, first posti, posted by shrimp on June 8, 2003, at 18:35:43
I have taken Sam-e with Nardil and have noticed more improvement in mood.
Posted by shrimp on June 10, 2003, at 7:56:04
In reply to Try Sam-e+Nardil, posted by lawrence S. on June 9, 2003, at 22:41:14
I would definitely be willing to try that, I didn't know that you could take them together. How much Nardil are you on? What brand and how many millligrams of SAMe? Thanks for your help.
> I have taken Sam-e with Nardil and have noticed more improvement in mood.
Posted by KimberlyDi on June 10, 2003, at 8:17:01
In reply to Re: , posted by shrimp on June 9, 2003, at 15:23:57
Shrimp,
Therapy only helps me to recognize when i'm being so hard on myself that I'm being counter-productive. I'm co-dependent as H*ll and seem unable to set proper boundaries in relationships. I'm more concerned with being "fair" to other people than being "fair" to myself. Therapy helps with that too.> My boyfriend's name for me, i am tiny, shrimp size . i was self destructive for a long time, but not any longer, yet depression remains. Does therapy help? i guess i'm skeptical, because so far only meds have temporarily erased the brain fog, if anyone has ANY suggestions for the thinking through mud problem, please let me know. nardil is making me tired between 3-8 , i could literally sleep sitting up at my desk, but then after 8 i seem to wake up. Will this sleepiness subside, or should i drop nardil? Oh, and i have a great dog, who i love to death, probably more than i like people.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm curious, why did you choose "Shrimp" as your name?
> >
> > I was bright and intelligent and everyone expected me to conquer the world and do great things. Instead I crashed and burned, thanks to alcohol and depression. I have completely lost who I was. I don't worry about world problems & SARS. For some reason, I was born being my own worst enemy. I self destruct. But I keep trying. I'm back on med's (currently Effexor) and I'm going to therapy. Right now I'm balanced (it always feels like a tightrope act) and sometimes I even catch glimpses of who I used to be. And now I am uniquely qualified to appreciate what everyone *normal* takes for granted: life.
> >
> > Take baby steps. They add up.
> >
> > Do you have any pets?
> >
> > Good luck, Kim
>
>
Posted by lawrence S. on June 10, 2003, at 15:51:42
In reply to Re: Try Sam-e+Nardil, posted by shrimp on June 10, 2003, at 7:56:04
I'm on 90mg. of Nardil per day. I take only 200mg of NatureMade brand Sam-e,(bought it at Walmart)a day. Taken on an empty stomach. It seems to make a significant difference.
Posted by Ron Hill on June 10, 2003, at 16:37:26
In reply to Re: Try Sam-e+Nardil, posted by lawrence S. on June 10, 2003, at 15:51:42
Lawrence,
> I'm on 90mg. of Nardil per day. I take only 200mg of NatureMade brand Sam-e,(bought it at Walmart)a day. Taken on an empty stomach. It seems to make a significant difference.
Glad to hear that this combo seems to be helping you. However, just for the record and for the benefit of the listening audience, the SAM-e package insert instructs patients that are taking antidepressant medications to consult with their physician before using the product.
Obviously, caution must be used to avoid any possible serious adverse reactions (e.g.; serotonin syndrome).
-- Ron
Posted by Boba Fat on June 11, 2003, at 9:50:37
In reply to Re: Sam-e+Nardil » lawrence S., posted by Ron Hill on June 10, 2003, at 16:37:26
I wish Sam-e was available over here in England. I would love to try it but I would have to mail order it at extortionate prices. I bet you can buy a tub full for a few dollars in Walmart! Maybe when they convert our local ASDA to Walmart it will be available here then?
Posted by Caleb462 on June 11, 2003, at 16:44:26
In reply to Re: Sam-e, posted by Boba Fat on June 11, 2003, at 9:50:37
> I wish Sam-e was available over here in England. I would love to try it but I would have to mail order it at extortionate prices. I bet you can buy a tub full for a few dollars in Walmart! Maybe when they convert our local ASDA to Walmart it will be available here then?
Actually SAM-e is quite expensive in the US. It would cost a fortune to take 1200-1600 mg of SAM-e a day... I was taking 400-600 mg for a while, and even that was WAY expensive.
This is the end of the thread.
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