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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by McPac on May 23, 2003, at 20:59:40
Lar, when I first began taking Zoloft I noticed that my "tics" had gotten MUCH worse....I always wondered why.......I found this info. below on the Internet BUT, here's the question, does Zoloft possess any of these qualities (the anticholinergic or dopamine agonist qualities)? Thanks for any help!
Agents that worsen tardive dyskinesia
Anticholinergic agents, Antiparkinson agents (e.g., benztropine), Dopamine agonists, Amphetamines, L-DOPA
Posted by Caleb462 on May 24, 2003, at 0:24:43
In reply to Larry Hoover, posted by McPac on May 23, 2003, at 20:59:40
> Lar, when I first began taking Zoloft I noticed that my "tics" had gotten MUCH worse....I always wondered why.......I found this info. below on the Internet BUT, here's the question, does Zoloft possess any of these qualities (the anticholinergic or dopamine agonist qualities)? Thanks for any help!
>
> Agents that worsen tardive dyskinesia
> Anticholinergic agents, Antiparkinson agents (e.g., benztropine), Dopamine agonists, Amphetamines, L-DOPA
>Are you sure you've got your information right? All the agents you listed should improve TD symptoms, not worsen them.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2003, at 8:11:27
In reply to Larry Hoover, posted by McPac on May 23, 2003, at 20:59:40
> Lar, when I first began taking Zoloft I noticed that my "tics" had gotten MUCH worse....I always wondered why.......
Exacerbation of tics is a recognized effect of sertraline. Why? Who knows.
>I found this info. below on the Internet BUT, here's the question, does Zoloft possess any of these qualities (the anticholinergic or dopamine agonist qualities)? Thanks for any help!
Not that I'm aware of.
> Agents that worsen tardive dyskinesia
> Anticholinergic agents, Antiparkinson agents (e.g., benztropine), Dopamine agonists, Amphetamines, L-DOPAI'm confused. I associate tics with Tourette's syndrome and some forms of ADHD. What is the connection to tardive dyskinesia?
Lar
Posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 14:50:53
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2003, at 8:11:27
"Exacerbation of tics is a recognized effect of sertraline. Why? Who knows".
Do you have a link to any info. stating this? Thanks!
Posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 14:58:25
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover, posted by Caleb462 on May 24, 2003, at 0:24:43
"Are you sure you've got your information right? All the agents you listed should improve TD symptoms, not worsen them".
(DOWN near the bottom...I could give you the link if you'd want it)
TABLE 1: The Differential Pharmacology of Tardive Dyskinesia
Agents that suppress tardive dyskinesia
specific agents
Dopamine antagonists
Butyrophenones, clozapine, metoclopramide (Karp 1981), papaverine (mechanism uncertain), phenothiazines, bromocriptine, pimozide
Dopamine D2 Agonists
Buspirone
Amine-depleting agents
Reserpine, tetrabenzine
Blocker of catecholamine synthesis
Alpha-methyldopa, Alpha-methyltyrosine (AMPT)
Blocker of catecholamine release
Lithium salts
Cholinergic agents
Deanol (mechanism uncertain), physostigmine, choline and lecithin
GABA agonists
Progabide (Bartholini 1983), valproic acid (mechanism uncertain), baclofen (mechanism uncertain), iazepam, clonazepam
Anticholinergic agents (Moore and Bowers 1980)
Benztropine, trihexyphenidyl
Agents with variable, negligible, or uncertain effects
Alpha-methyldopa, Amantadine, Anticholinergics Antihistamines, Apomorphine, Barbiturates, Benzodiazepines, Methylphenidate, Penicillamine, Physostigmine, Pyridoxine (B6), Tryptophan, a-tocopherol (Vitamin E)
Agents that worsen tardive dyskinesia
Anticholinergic agents, Antiparkinson agents (e.g., benztropine), Dopamine agonists, Amphetamines, L-DOPA
Newer investigational agents (peptides) (Blurn and Korczyn 1983)
Endopioids, Substance P, Cholecystokinin, Ceruletide, Neurotensin, Cyclo-Leucine-Glycine
Posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 15:14:38
In reply to Re: Larry Hoover » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2003, at 8:11:27
"I'm confused. I associate tics with Tourette's syndrome and some forms of ADHD. What is the connection to tardive dyskinesia?"
Sorry Lar! I've never been sure about my "tics"...if they were "tics" or if they were a form of TD OR if they were BOTH "tics" AND some TD......someone on a thread above asked someone else how you know the difference between some "tics" and some forms of abnormal movements, like some TD forms. One thing that I just noticed though....on the response to Caleb, in which I enclosed some info. I found on the Internet, it states that Lithium Salts have HELPED TD movements (I think most people think of TD being just tongue-rolling or mouth movements but I'm pretty sure that there are TD symptoms that look like tics as well (?).....anyway, my 'movements' (tics/td?) are much better when I take the lithium....and MUCH worse when I'm only taking Zoloft...
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2003, at 15:18:34
In reply to Lar, Re: Larry Hoover, posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 14:50:53
> "Exacerbation of tics is a recognized effect of sertraline. Why? Who knows".
>
> Do you have a link to any info. stating this? Thanks!
>
>
Here's the primary reference, but there's no abstract available:Hauser RA, Zesiewicz TA.
Sertraline-induced exacerbation of tics in Tourette's syndrome.
Mov Disord. 1995 Sep;10(5):682-4. No abstract available.
PMID: 8552129 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]The secondary reference, I found here:
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/zoloft.htm
And if you go to Rxlist, and view the monograph, under adverse effects:
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/sertral_ad.htm
you'll find twitching, dyskinesia, which may subsume the concept of tic.
Posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 15:39:32
In reply to Re: Lar, Re: Larry Hoover » McPac, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2003, at 15:18:34
I always KNEW that my "tics" were MUCH WORSE because of Zoloft but did not know that this was proven....lithium must do something to greatly diminish the tics because I've noticed how much it helps mine....lithium salts DO help with TD....
Posted by Caleb462 on May 24, 2003, at 17:22:18
In reply to Caleb, Re: Larry Hoover, posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 14:58:25
> "Are you sure you've got your information right? All the agents you listed should improve TD symptoms, not worsen them".
>
> (DOWN near the bottom...I could give you the link if you'd want it)
>
> TABLE 1: The Differential Pharmacology of Tardive Dyskinesia
> Agents that suppress tardive dyskinesia
> specific agents
>
> Dopamine antagonists
> Butyrophenones, clozapine, metoclopramide (Karp 1981), papaverine (mechanism uncertain), phenothiazines, bromocriptine, pimozide
>
> Dopamine D2 Agonists
> Buspirone
>
> Amine-depleting agents
> Reserpine, tetrabenzine
>
> Blocker of catecholamine synthesis
> Alpha-methyldopa, Alpha-methyltyrosine (AMPT)
>
> Blocker of catecholamine release
> Lithium salts
>
> Cholinergic agents
> Deanol (mechanism uncertain), physostigmine, choline and lecithin
>
> GABA agonists
> Progabide (Bartholini 1983), valproic acid (mechanism uncertain), baclofen (mechanism uncertain), iazepam, clonazepam
>
> Anticholinergic agents (Moore and Bowers 1980)
> Benztropine, trihexyphenidyl
>
> Agents with variable, negligible, or uncertain effects
> Alpha-methyldopa, Amantadine, Anticholinergics Antihistamines, Apomorphine, Barbiturates, Benzodiazepines, Methylphenidate, Penicillamine, Physostigmine, Pyridoxine (B6), Tryptophan, a-tocopherol (Vitamin E)
>
> Agents that worsen tardive dyskinesia
> Anticholinergic agents, Antiparkinson agents (e.g., benztropine), Dopamine agonists, Amphetamines, L-DOPA
>
> Newer investigational agents (peptides) (Blurn and Korczyn 1983)
> Endopioids, Substance P, Cholecystokinin, Ceruletide, Neurotensin, Cyclo-Leucine-Glycine
>
>Hmm... well, the site that you pulled this from is just plain wrong.
"Agents that suppress tardive dyskinesia
specific agents
Dopamine antagonists
Butyrophenones, clozapine, metoclopramide (Karp 1981), papaverine (mechanism uncertain), phenothiazines, bromocriptine, pimozide"Dopamine antagonists don't suppress TD, they CAUSE TD!! Whatever site this is from is all backwards.
Posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 20:55:34
In reply to Re: Caleb, Re: Larry Hoover, posted by Caleb462 on May 24, 2003, at 17:22:18
Here is the link (the Table is near the bottom of page)...if it's wrong, okay, thanks.....
Posted by Caleb462 on May 25, 2003, at 0:56:11
In reply to Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Larry Hoover, posted by McPac on May 24, 2003, at 20:55:34
> Here is the link (the Table is near the bottom of page)...if it's wrong, okay, thanks.....
>
>
> http://www.vh.org/adult/provider/psychiatry/CPS/08.htmlHey, sorry McPac... if my post came off as rude or anything. I guess maybe I was wrong? I was under the impression TD responds in the way as parkinson's... but apparently not.
Again, I apoligize if I was being beligerent (I have NO idea how to spell that word).
Posted by McPac on May 26, 2003, at 0:18:20
In reply to Re: Caleb, Re: Caleb, Re: Larry Hoover, posted by Caleb462 on May 25, 2003, at 0:56:11
Hi Caleb!
"sorry if my post came off as rude or anything."
No, not at all...I always appreciate your posts!
Take care!
This is the end of the thread.
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