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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
I've been reading your board for awhile and I really appreciate all that you all have to say, and I've learned a lot.
I'm 29, and I've been on meds for most of my life. I've taken pretty much everything out there, too many to list here, but the SSRI's, Tricyclics, MAOIs, newer anti-depressants, mood stabilisers, anti-convulsants, opiates, anti-psychotics, benzos, amphetamines, you name it, I've probably taken it if it's available in the US, and I'm even on a drug now that's not available in the United States.
I'm on seven psychotropics now: neurontin, norco, sulpiride, valium, adderall, seroquel, and ambien. While some days my mood is tolerable at best, most of the time I feel very much like I wish I was dead. Opiates provide the only mild relief.
So, I guess my question is: is there really a point to being on all these meds if I don't really feel any better? I've been on all sorts of combinations, and I guess this is the best one, but it still seems like it's not worth it to me.
I should mention that I had a liver/kidney failure in June of this year so I feel somewhat wary of being on medication in general. We're still not sure what caused it, but at the time I was very suicidal and was taking a lot of vicodin, vicoprofen, valium, seroquel, and soma. I didn't actively overdose, but I was probably taking enough over a high period of time that it could have caused the failure. Like I said, we're really not very sure.
I think part of me is scared that off the meds is somehow worse - right now I keep a job, and I occasionally am able to go out with other people, and I live on my own. I suppose I'm afraid I'd lose that ability if I went off the meds.
Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering what other people do - do they just keep taking the meds even though they don't really feel better - there doesn't seem to be any left to ask for. Is is better to just go on my own without meds? I'm not even sure there really is an answer.
I'm sorry for such a long post. It's just really bothering me right now, and has been, and I feel like I'm in the dark here.
Thank you all for taking the time to read this.
Posted by linkadge on October 22, 2002, at 15:15:21
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
YOu are on a lot and I think theres
got to be a way to consolidate them
down to less. It is depressing in
itself to be on that much (mind you
if you need it all then you need it)
but, at your age I think you can
turn your life around in some way to make
it work for you.Linkadge
linkadge@hotmail.com
Posted by tai on October 22, 2002, at 23:24:42
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
That wasnt too bad a philosophical question, but I have a philosophical answer for you.
Happiness is inside of you, its inside of everyone. Some people just dont know how to acess it; you, me, everyone on this board...
You can look at your happiness like its locked away in a box that you cant figure out how to open. Somewhere out there, thier is a key, someway to get in that box. Maybe meds is the right answer, or maybe something spiritual, or maybe some sort of re birth through lsd or something...point is, I believe you can open that box, just have to figure out how. And unfortunately for you, is sounds like your happiness is locked away in fort knox. But hey, theres even a way into that.Keep your head up.
Posted by Denise528 on October 23, 2002, at 18:17:50
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
Hi,
Personally I don't believe there is any point in being on so many meds if you are not really feeling much better. I doubt very much that they are all have some special synergy when taken together. How do you know which drug is doing what? I think with your psychiatrists guidance you should start eliminating some of them, maybe come off them all and start again from scratch, who knows you might even feel better off them than on them. I think that it's irresponsible for psychiatrists to have patients on so many drugs at once.
I know that you have already taken numerous drugs but there must be others that you haven't already tried.
I agree with Dr Martin Jensen's methods, he prescribes medication in sample doses, no more than five to seven days worth of each and taken one at a time, with an antidote to relieve unwelcome side affects. He briefly compares them first to find an exact match that works the same day. He believes that the farther a cure is from the problem, the longer it takes to work if it works at all.
Surely his methods would be more preferable than doing what your psychiatrist seems to be doing which is adding more and more drugs to the mix regardless of whether they are working or not.
Denise
Posted by Mr Beev on October 23, 2002, at 21:06:29
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
I would second Denise528's advice. Seven medications is an awful lot, a worrisome amount, too much in fact to even begin to guess what the interactions are or may be. If you can stand it, consider stopping them all before before permanent neurological or hepatic (liver) damage accrues.
Although I would be suspicious of any pdoc who has put you on so many meds, one approach might be to consult with your pdoc on how to order your meds for cessation, and then stop taking them, one by one. They should all be gradually tapered, to reduce withdrawal effects, some of which can mimic the disorders that put us on meds in the first place. You might make ambien the last med, since it produces a good sleep profile, and sleeping, however briefly, is always a plus.
At each stage, you could ask yourself: do I feel worse than usual? Suppose you do. Then ask yourself, can I bear it, at least for awhile? That is, can I still manage, perhaps with effort, to function passably, for example to hold down my job, go out and buy groceries, and the like?
I stopped Luvox once, but did not taper slowly enough, and felt very, very bad. But I did not have the suicidal mania that put me on it in the first place, and I somehow managed to hang on, and in two weeks the worst was over. In a month, all the withdrawal effects were gone.
All the best,
Mr Beev
Posted by Jerrympls on October 23, 2002, at 21:39:50
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
Your post is very similar to my experiences: I'm 30, male, and have been dealing with depression for 11 years now. I've been on every medication, many combinations, augmentation strategies, off-lable uses, vitamins, SAMe, and ECT. I've thought the exact same thing as you have: "Is there any reason to go on with all these meds that don't work?" Hm....excuse my lack of enthusiasm - but yes - there has to be some reason to go on.
How can I think this while I sit in my apartment after work - dodging phone calls from the few friends I have managed to keep? Why keep taking these meds when they make me fat and destroy my sex life? How can I even think of continuing when music no longer warms my heart......while I watch the "Real World" on MTV and wonder what it would be like to be 22 again and fall in love......
Lonliness keeps me company I guess.
It's hard to make a case for "life" when you're on 10 medications - 9 of which are pure side effect - and you come home from work and sit on your couch and you watch the news. Maybe for a second or two you crack a smile because Will & Grace is obnoxiously funny tonight.
Perhaps you sigh and wish/hope/pray for better times.
And perhaps - just perhaps - for some unknown reason - your mother calls or your best friend from Chicago and unexpectedly - after the stories of office drama and after stories of how your mother's neighbor refuses to return her tupperware - they pause...
....and say - very simply -
"....hold on."
That helps me for another week or so. I also remind myself that I have to see Star Wars Episode III.
Call me crazy.......
Posted by judy1 on October 24, 2002, at 1:11:25
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
I also have a similar history to yours (including the part where only opiates improved my depression). When I went to my current shrink I was on 6 meds and he has tapered me down to 1 full-time, I take 2 others when necessary. Thanks to intensive therapy and an astute dr. I feel 100 times better then I did 2 years ago. I think the majority of your symptoms are probably due to polypharmacy, and your first step is to find a really good therapist who hopefully can recommend a shrink to help you taper off the majority of your meds. This is a fairly long process, but it is incredibly worth it- I went from a suicide attempt to having a baby in the last year. I still have problems, but I'm able to work on them and no longer feel like giving up. My prayers are with you- judy
Posted by Phil on October 25, 2002, at 6:52:59
In reply to Somewhat of a philosophical question here, posted by iridium on October 22, 2002, at 14:01:05
I'm sure you have tried exercise, meditation, etc. I've got a feeling you have.
My doc has me on 4 meds and if I mention a new drug, she looks at me like I'm nuts. Of course, I'm wearing my Roy Rogers outfit with scuba gear over it. She has no sense of humor.
Do you have a choice of pdoc's in your area? If so, you might want to ask around for references. Maybe find someone who can lead you out of this.
I can't say I'm much better. I could go out with friends but it just doesn't motivate me so I've pretty much narrowed my friends down to my cat. And yesterday, I saw him outside using a cell phone. Probably calling one of his 45 siblings for bus fare.
I hope you find the answer. Taking seven or even four meds, I think, can make you feel ill just from your body trying to deal with it all. But I'd take 7 meds if nothing else worked. Are you getting blood work done regularly?Phil
Posted by IsoM on October 25, 2002, at 15:10:11
In reply to Re: Somewhat of a philosophical question here » iridium, posted by Phil on October 25, 2002, at 6:52:59
Regarding your dress: "Of course, I'm wearing my Roy Rogers outfit with scuba gear over it. She has no sense of humor." Phil, you've got to run away & join the circus. The excitement, comradarie of other unusual people, & no end of new places to see should get you back to "normal"!
You must check out Cry, Cry, Cry (group of Richard Shindell, Lucy Kaplansky, & Dar Williams) doing "The Kid". You can d/l the song here:
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?ean=793018284028"I'm the kid who ran away with the circus,
Now I'm watering elephants.
But I sometimes lie awake in the sawdust
Dreaming I'm in a suit of light.
Late at night in the empty big top, I'm all alone on the high-wire.
Look, he's working without a net this time, he's a real death-defyer.
I'm the kid who always looked out the window,
Failing tests in geography.
But I've seen things far beyond the schoolyard -
Distant shores of exotic lands.
There're the spires of the Turkish Empire, six months since we made landfall.
Riding low with the spices of India through Gibralter, we're rich men -
All...I'm the kid who thought someday we'd be lovers,
Always held out that time would tell.
Time was talking, guess I just wasn't listening.
No surprise, if you know me well.
And as we're walking toward the train station, there's a whispering rainfall.
'Cross the boulevard you slip your hand in mine, in the distance the train calls.I'm the kid who has this habit of dreaming.
Sometimes gets me in trouble, too.
But the truth is, I could no more stop dreaming
Than I could make them all come true."Of course, I know Bob'll proably shunt this over to PB Social.
Posted by utopizen on October 25, 2002, at 16:19:10
In reply to Re: unusual choices in clothing... » Phil, posted by IsoM on October 25, 2002, at 15:10:11
Nothing like beating circus elephants with a good ol' bullhook for adventure.
Ah, the romantic circus, where would we be with out it?
Posted by IsoM on October 25, 2002, at 17:09:15
In reply to Re: unusual choices in clothing..., posted by utopizen on October 25, 2002, at 16:19:10
Silly fellow poster - I hate circuses! They're horrible places for the poor animals, & all the flash & glitter are so fake. It's the wistfulness of the song & its lyrics, wishing for simpler, less restrained & restrictive times (that in many cases, never was) that evokes a feeling in me - like the kid looking out the window, wishing & dreaming, while geography's drilled into the kids in a bare, meaningless classroom & then how he learned about geography through experince in other lands when older.
Phew! That was a wordy, run-on sentence. Just joshing you, I hope you know. I share your sentiment about circuses.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 25, 2002, at 18:17:12
In reply to Re: unusual choices in clothing... » Phil, posted by IsoM on October 25, 2002, at 15:10:11
> Of course, I know Bob'll proably shunt this over to PB Social.
You read my mind! :-) Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20021022/msgs/31663.html
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, thanks.
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