![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 41 to 65 of 65. Go back in thread:
Posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:26:51
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:10:33
.
Posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 0:05:26
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Denise528 on October 10, 2002, at 13:10:33
> Hi,
>
> Have you tried Zyprexa? Is the Nardil not helping you at all?
>
> Don't give up hope, there are plenty of new drugs coming on the scene, if not now, in a few years time.
>
> DeniseYes I am in the US. Why would I try Zyprexa? It is an antipsycotic. I have dysthymia, a-tyical depression and anxiety (GAD, PTSD, Panic are the names important the symtems are the same). That drug is meant for schizophrenia and maybe bipolar depression (mine is unipolar). As for waiting around for new drugs, all the new drugs are like celexa, in the same classes (like ssri) that hurt me. There also is no more time left. I can feel myself giving out like I'm going catatonic. Hope is already pretty much gone. In the end love and affection would do more than any drug, but it doesn't exist in my family, and women run away. So far the drug hasn't had any possitive effects, but I have taken it less than a month, so in a few weeks who can say. I'm very depressed, and nothing shakes me out of it for long. I've started to become dizzy and more uncordinated. I don't know if this is because of low blood pressure (I've started eating more salt, and eating more in general), or if this is another side effect I can do nothing about. If it doesn't work maybe I'll try it with lithium or adderal, maybe I'll try the other MAOI (Parnate I think it's called), if I have any effort left maybe I'll even try one more tryciclicate. Then I'm threw with drugs, and possibly everything else. Everyday is so hard to get through, and its been this way too long. Existance hurts.
Posted by Denise528 on October 11, 2002, at 10:33:35
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 0:05:26
Hi,
Don't give up. I think I'm unipolar and Zyprexa really got me out of a hole so maybe it would work for you. What about ECT, surely if you were that desparate you would try anything.
From what I have read, they are researching new drugs CRF Antagonists and these Substance P Drugs, they're doing trials in the States, can't you ask if you can get on board?
Denise
Posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 11:34:46
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Denise528 on October 11, 2002, at 10:33:35
> Hi,
>
> Don't give up. I think I'm unipolar and Zyprexa really got me out of a hole so maybe it would work for you. What about ECT, surely if you were that desparate you would try anything.
>
> From what I have read, they are researching new drugs CRF Antagonists and these Substance P Drugs, they're doing trials in the States, can't you ask if you can get on board?
>
> DeniseECT only works cause it causes brain trama, and it is a temporary solution. There have been cases where they forget to put the mouth peice in and people bite off their toungs. ECT is not a solution. Further if every drug on the market does not work I see no reason why the next series of "Miracle Drugs" should be any better. I am in pain now, a pain I've been in my entire life, a pain that has become intolerable. I've tryed more than enough of these cures, and have found only more suffering. Maybe I'll try Zyprexa, but the day comes when you have to stop taking these drugs, when it becomes obvious they won't work, and will only make things worse. That day is coming fast.
Posted by Dinah on October 12, 2002, at 11:44:09
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 0:05:26
> In the end love and affection would do more than any drug, but it doesn't exist in my family, and women run away.
At the risk of having my head bitten off on the medication board, have you tried psychotherapy? Psychotherapy can help you with interpersonal issues that would help you find friendship and love that would add meaning to your life. Your family of origin might be lacking in love and affection, but with the proper help you can build your own family that incorporates it. Therapy isn't a substitute for medication, but since you mentioned the lack of love and affection in your life, therapy aimed at addressing these issues might be a useful adjunct.
Posted by Blah on October 12, 2002, at 17:19:18
In reply to Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 6, 2002, at 20:36:07
I started deep analasis 3 times a week at 5 years old. It helped some, but I have been in some form of treatment ever since.
>
> I have a therapist I like, but after my history she can only do so much.As I said before I have had psycoanalasis, psycothearapy, group, hospitalization, DBT, social workers, so many different therapies I can't remember them all, since 5 years old. It has been my whole life, and in many ways it has been more hurtful than helpful. I have probably had over 20 thearapists over the years, some I saw for considerable amounts of time, and some I quit early cause it was obvious they had nothing to offer me. It has come to the point that I often know more about psycology than they do. Several times I've even corrected pdocs and been right, to their embarassment. I don't understand why you are suggesting something I have tryed more than anything else. It is the constant failier of therapy that has caused me to be so burnt out, and to turn to drugs as a last resort.
Posted by Denise528 on October 14, 2002, at 10:53:42
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 11, 2002, at 11:34:46
Blah,
I'm sure if you went to an expert in ECT they would not forget to put the mouthpiece in.
These new "miracle drugs" may not work but at least you will no sooner whether they will or not. Apparently the substance P drugs are supposed to work in a matter of days rather than weeks.
If you have finished with drugs and therapy, what are you going to do next or are you just going to grit your teeth and get on with it?
Denise
Posted by Blah on October 15, 2002, at 9:54:16
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road - Blah, posted by Denise528 on October 14, 2002, at 10:53:42
> Blah,
>
> I'm sure if you went to an expert in ECT they would not forget to put the mouthpiece in.
>
> These new "miracle drugs" may not work but at least you will no sooner whether they will or not. Apparently the substance P drugs are supposed to work in a matter of days rather than weeks.
>
> If you have finished with drugs and therapy, what are you going to do next or are you just going to grit your teeth and get on with it?
>
> DeniseEveryday is pain. The solution will probably be to stop the days.
Posted by Denise528 on October 15, 2002, at 13:52:32
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road - Blah, posted by Blah on October 15, 2002, at 9:54:16
I know exactly how you feel but you shouldn't give up until you have tried absolutely everything there is to try, with the exception of harmful substances that is. I've given myself 4 years to keep trying, no doubt I'll get to the end of the 4 years and add on another year.
Don't give up, at least you know what does or what could make you feel better, so you know it's possible.
Denise
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 15, 2002, at 18:08:17
In reply to Re: Nardil and the end of a long road - Blah, posted by Blah on October 15, 2002, at 9:54:16
Hi...reading these posts every few days, I just a few moments ago became aware of how extremely difficult and serious your situation is; it seems as though you have spent 23 years of your still young life in an all-out effort to undo the damage done to you by the emotional abuse you suffered, and without success so far- I can't imagine anything more discouraging. And when you are trying this hard, and still having to cope with so much pain, it's inevitable that you are not going to have the energy to grow socially and academically the way you would like to. Something in your posts have given me the feeling that you are a really good guy with a lot of potential and valuable things to offer others. As you know better than any of us, therapy can help you find these things out for yourself, build a healthy relationship with your therapist that will help you grow, and begin to put new, better ways of relating to people into action, but only if you are not too depressed to engage in therapy enough to accomplish any of these things. If your pain is just too severe to be able to do that,it's just one more failed endeavor. It sounds to me as if you are so down now that you need to do something else first. I don't mean that you should stop seeing your therapist; it's just that, while you keep seeing her, I think you need to investigate what neurophysiological treatments might be available to you.
To go over everything I am aware of:
1. CRH and Substance P antagonists- these are only in Phase 2-3 studies; I think they are going to be very helpful, but it sounds to me that the ones which have looked safe may not be very effective, and the more effective ones are not known to be safe yet. They would not be my first choice as a trial this year.
2.ECT and rTMS- ECT is very scary to contemplate, although many people are reporting good results and manageable memory deficits which last months but are not permanent. I know two people well who have had it- they had psychotic, suicidal depressions; they have both remained well for many years, and are both academics and writers- no memory deficits allowed in their fields! Once in a while, someone reports a bad experience. I would keep this open as an option. The rTMS is still experimental, so in order to get it you would have to join a study, with the possibility of getting sham treatment. Apparently, those given sham treatment during the trial are offered the real thing immediately afterwards. The preliminary reports I have read indicate that it is easy to undergo, comparable in results to ECT, and is without any memory impairments. You do have the hassle of being in a study. My psychiatrist said that she has had personal experience of two patients, both extremely drug-resistant, who had very good results with the rTMS.
3.Cortisol antagonists. You first need to know your morning and evening cortisol levels, your 24-hour urinary cortisol, and whether or not you suppress normally after a 1 mg. dose of dexamethasone. In long-standing depression, about half of the people tested will have cortisol abnormalities. It's not tested for much, because there isn't yet a good treatment. Various supplements are supposed to lower them a little, but I think the only available treatment is RU-486- mefipristone. It was "fast-tracked" by the FDA as an effective treatment for serious depression in August- it really normalizes the cortisol. There are large studies going on at Stanford and NIH; for psychotic monopolar depression at Stanford and bipolar at NIH. But this drug is in an unusual position, as it's known to be safe for abortions, and has been used millions of times. The dosage being used in the studies I mentioned is 600 mg. daily for 7 days. If you are interested, you could consult an endocrinologist and ask for "compassionate use" permission. You can't get this drug from a pharmacist, but only from a doctor who has registered with the drug company, which is Danco.
Severe depression can alter one's perception of themselves and the way they relate to the world to an incredible degree. Even through these posts, I am seeing a much different person from the way you describe yourself. Do try to hang on and look into the things I have mentioned which may seem appropriate to you, as well as others I may not know about. Also, please keep posting to us- say anything at all, but just keep in touch.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Blah on October 17, 2002, at 1:54:26
In reply to For Blah..please try everything, posted by Pfinstegg on October 15, 2002, at 18:08:17
> Hi...reading these posts every few days, I just a few moments ago became aware of how extremely difficult and serious your situation is; it seems as though you have spent 23 years of your still young life in an all-out effort to undo the damage done to you by the emotional abuse you suffered, and without success so far- I can't imagine anything more discouraging. And when you are trying this hard, and still having to cope with so much pain, it's inevitable that you are not going to have the energy to grow socially and academically the way you would like to. Something in your posts have given me the feeling that you are a really good guy with a lot of potential and valuable things to offer others.
I'd like to thank you for really thinking about my situation rather than being judgemental. This is a problem I've had from many people, not only doctors but other people with mental illnesses as well, usually people who, posibly with a better personal support system, have been able to pull themselves out more easily. I often feel so much shame. There is so much I want to do, and learn. I picture it so well in my head, but most days I'm so tired, can't concentrate, have no energy mental or physical, and it has been like this my whole life, but is getting worse. You say still young, but my youth is really gone, and that fills me with even more hopelessness. I used to feel romance existed for me in this world. Now I look around at the women I know and meet, even ones I am only moderately atracted too, and I know that no one wants me. I've asked several. Just damaged goods I guess. I won't be able to go on if having that part of life takes another 20 years of work. Even if it works, I don't think Nardil could give me that much effort. Having that part of life even if only occasionaly is very important to me. With so little closeness and affection I need it, even if it was only from time to time.
Eccept for ECT and the magnettic treatment the: neurophysiological treatments do not have alot of info bout them on the net. 2 or more years ago I seriously considered ECT. It had that great instant comic book quality. Like the average man who's hit by weird radiation and becomes super powered, I had the idea of this big machine that, if even for a little while, would make the depression and energy problems go away. However, the more research I did the less that fantacy held. It is very temporary, I don't think it lasts for even a month. There is alot of evidence that the reason depression goes away momentarily is because you feel the same shock you would in a car accident. I have also heard many negative reports from reserch and people I've met face to face who told me that the depression did not get better, and that the memory loss, for them, was permenant. This procedure for many is ineffective, and unlike drugs any negative effects will be much more permanent. The magnetic therapy I thought of too, but as you say the study sittuation is a problem. Also it is a new therapy, and my have terible dangers we aren't aware of yet. The MAOI does still need time to work, but if it doesn't, as I have begun to fear I will discuss these options with my dr. I've lost so much hope its hard to see anything snapping me out of it, at this point.> Severe depression can alter one's perception of themselves and the way they relate to the world to an incredible degree. Even through these posts, I am seeing a much different person from the way you describe yourself.
How am I a different person than the way I describe myself. I think this is a compliment, but with so much specific negative reinforcement, I need the positive feedback to be specific too.
-Thanks
Blah
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 17, 2002, at 13:58:07
In reply to Re: For Blah..please try everything, posted by Blah on October 17, 2002, at 1:54:26
was that you have the three things women like best: a warm, loving heart, intelligence and sexiness. But right now, these are so covered over with shame, discouragement, lack of self-confidence, exhaustion, and just an extremely severe depression that you are not able to even begin to use what you have. You've got to know, yourself, that those good things are there, even if you're often not quite sure, in order for things to improve for you socially. It sounds to me as if you are so depressed now that you are convinced that you are somehow fatally lacking in everything.
What to do...
1. The medications. Nardil may begin to be helpful, as you say, or if it isn't, you have nothing to lose by trying all the MAOI's. These sometimes help, even if only partially, when all the SSRI's and mood stabilizers don't.
2. rTMS. Since you don't want to take ECT, why not keep rTMS open as an option? I think there are about 15 centers in the US studying it right now. It is supposed to act like a defibrillator, making all the neurons fire simultaneously, which seems to have the effect of resetting the functioning of all the neurotransmitters.
It is probably not a "permanent" treatment, either, but getting back to a brain that functions normally, even for a few months, would allow other ADs to work more effectively, and also allow you to view yourself more favorably as you work in psychotherapy. If I find that I need it, I would join one of these trials, rather than undergo ECT- I'm with you on that. I would go to Emory University, because they have such an excellent reputation for research and knowledge in mood disorder.3. Cortisol. I decided to find out what my cortisol levels were after four years of rather unsuccessful treatment of major depression with twice-weekly psychoanalytic psychotherapy combined with Prozac, Paxil, Zyprexa and Wellbutrin. The endocrinologist I saw found that the 24-hour levels were abnormally high, and that they got higher and higher during the day, rather than gradually lower, as they are supposed to. When I took the DST (dexamethasone suppression test), there was no suppression. This all meant that I have pseudo-Cushing's syndrome; apparently about half of depressed people do have varying degrees of it, and probably close to 100% of those who have suffered severe childhood trauma. The next question was- what to do about it? We are in the process of thinking this out; a 7-day trial of mefipristone is the most likely possibility. In the meantime, with the support of both my psychiatrist and the endocrinologist, I have been taking tianeptine, a French AD, which, while it does not lower circulating cortisol, does protect one's brain from its damaging effects. It is such a quiet medication, like an aspirin, but I have noticed a slow but steady improvement in my mood, self-confidence and energy levels over the past 7 weeks- nothing earth-shaking, but a definite improvement.
4. Do you have a really good psychotherapist? If you can find the right combination of drug/physiological treatment to get feeling better enough to feel more hopeful about therapy, then you need one skilled enough to help you begin to have new, positive experiences with him/her so that you can build on those to develop a satisfying life for yourself.
All this doesn't have to take 20 years; it could take two. The really, really hard thing is to find all the elements you need so that it will happen. I personally really want to know what happens- will you keep in touch?
Pfinstegg
As for romance- well, that's the hardest thing for anyone, well, or ill! Why not give yourself a little break in your expectations in that area until you feel better? You said your spirits are lifted by even small human encounters- you could concentrate on the least-stressful, rewarding and brief of those for the time being. When you feel better, there'll be a lovable girl(s) out there for you.
Posted by Blah on October 18, 2002, at 11:40:04
In reply to Re: For Blah.. what I sensed about you, posted by Pfinstegg on October 17, 2002, at 13:58:07
> 4. Do you have a really good psychotherapist? If you can find the right combination of drug/physiological treatment to get feeling better enough to feel more hopeful about therapy, then you need one skilled enough to help you begin to have new, positive experiences with him/her so that you can build on those to develop a satisfying life for yourself.I feel she's good. She is supportive and nonjudgemental, and does not have a personal or theoretical agenda beyond my well being, which is much more than I can say for most thearapists. However, I think thearapy can only be management at this point. I think I've had all my breakthroughs, or at least most of them. It's just that I'm in so much pain I can't use that knowledge.
>
> All this doesn't have to take 20 years; it could take two. The really, really hard thing is to find all the elements you need so that it will happen. I personally really want to know what happens- will you keep in touch?
>
> Pfinstegg
>
> As for romance- well, that's the hardest thing for anyone, well, or ill! Why not give yourself a little break in your expectations in that area until you feel better? You said your spirits are lifted by even small human encounters- you could concentrate on the least-stressful, rewarding and brief of those for the time being. When you feel better, there'll be a lovable girl(s) out there for you.If Nardil or something really starts to work, maybe I could put off women, but now doing that just fills me with lonelyness and inadiquacy. Especially when I see my friends relationships. Also platonic friendships are loosing much of there umph. It starts to feel repetative when it can never lead to something more intamate (I don't just mean sexually). Also in two years I will be 30. I feel as if my youth has been wasted. Maybe it will be worth it if it comes but I've had so many false cures before that I can't be possitive without some results. In the end my situation would not be so bad if i had had some relationships and sex along the way. In the end affection is more powerful than drugs.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 18, 2002, at 16:46:14
In reply to Re: For Blah.. what I sensed about you, posted by Blah on October 18, 2002, at 11:40:04
Gosh, Blah, I'm hearing so much hopelessness and depression in your posts- that the therapy can only be maintenance, and that loving relationships just aren't going to happen. Both of those things should be holding out promise,growth and some eventual happiness for you, but it looks as though all the good things in life have gone completely off your radar. I continue to feel strongly that you need something more than medication and psychotherapy to help you get started on a better track. You really are so normal in your hopes and desires, and obviously have high intelligence, and the potential to do lots of rewarding things in life, but you are so down right now. I get the feeling that you have been so depressed for so long that you are truly convinced that none of the good things in life can ever happen to you, no matter what efforts you make. This just isn't so, but no-one will be able to convince you of that while your depression is so severe.
If you think it would be helpful to you, my endocrinologist is near to deciding to use mefipristone on me, and I'd be glad to let you know if it is helpful-and to what degree. Since I know that my depression has a phsyiological component, I am paying a lot of attention to details like taking Omega 3 fish oil and synthroid combined with cytomel in very low doses along with the tianeptine. I have gone from being extremely suicidal in August to being kind of medium now, mood-wise- and I notice that I am able to make much better use of the psychotherapy. No one thing made a huge difference, but together they are all making a noticeable difference
What if you found out that your brain cortisol was totally off, and along with it, your thyroid hormone levels, and your transmitters for serotonin, nor-epinephrine and dopamine? Wouldn't you go for treatment aiming to normalize these things? I don't know where you live, of course, but larger cities with medical schools/centers have neuro-endocrinologists who can pull all of these things together and make sure that you receive the most up-to-date treatments available. Would it be worth discussing these things with your therapist?
Keeping you in mind...take care.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Blah on October 22, 2002, at 13:46:51
In reply to Re: For Blah.. what I sensed about you, posted by Pfinstegg on October 18, 2002, at 16:46:14
For now my pdoc wants to stick to the Nardil. I don't know bout the cortisol (never heard of that before) but in physicals my thyroid has been declared normal many times. We didn't get to talk of these extra mesures yet cause of a scheduling mix up I had to talk to her on the phone, but she was definetly against adding other drugs (like lithium) at this point. She upped my Nardil from 60mg a day to 75mg (an extra 15mg at night). She wanted to cut my Klonopin down cause of my lethargy, but I told her the lethargy is nothing new especially now that I have lost more hope than before. I still feel the klonopin helps with some of the anxiousness, though maybe I should use the ambien less. But most of my tiredness and lethargy is caused by depression, I've felt it all my life, but now with the even greater loss of hope none of my distractions really work anymore, and I can't work on anything I want to unless its something involving other people. I'm feeling a bit better hanging around people i know well again, but other people just make me selfconsious. I know none of the women I know are interested, even the ones I had thought could be, and I know it will be like that with all the women I meet now, Its been that way for so long, and knowing that hurts. When I'm alone I sometimes have all this anger at them, but more at myself for being so unattractive. Because of the Nardil I can't ejaculate when i masterbate for at least an hour or two. When this happened on Paxil a few years ago it was kind of amusing, but now that I have lost all romantic hope its just a pain. In fact Masterbation itself lost most of its pleasure months ago. It even depresses me cause it feels like the closest I'll ever get to sex . I became particularly hopeless a month ago when this women I found somewhat attractive seemed to show intrest, but then later made it clear she wasn't interested by saying she didn't want to date for a while, and by saying I shouldn't either till I worked myself out (of course this is all I've been doing for the last 23 years, alone, and often taunted). I reallized then more than ever that romance didn't exist for me, women show what could be interest maybe once a year. This was especially hit home when as her "guy friend" she talked about her dismay at these two guys she'd been making out with. This really pissed of my therapist, it kind of shows how all this talk of fixing yourself before you can be with people is just Bullshit. My lethargy is just so bad, Nardil better do something soon. Obviously, I'm just a lepper now. I just hurt so much sometimes, the emptyness alone could kill me.
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 24, 2002, at 12:29:14
In reply to Blah update, posted by Blah on October 22, 2002, at 13:46:51
It sounds as though you've got a very good therapist, whom you can really trust and develop a deepening relationship with- this can have such a beneficial effect over time. I don't know if she is the one prescribing medications, but it sounds like whoever is doing that is doing an excellent job also.
It takes a lot of courage to keep going with your program when you feel so awful, but you are doing it, and you deserve tremendous credit for that. Everyone here is in your corner; we hope to hear in the future that you are feeling better.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Blah on October 29, 2002, at 2:20:02
In reply to Re: Blah update » Blah, posted by Pfinstegg on October 24, 2002, at 12:29:14
I don't see my pdoc for a week, different than my therapist. I like my therapist much more. I've had terrible appetite. Some days I can't eat at all, except some chocolate and a bag of chips in the morning. I don't know if it's depression, the Nardil, or both. The Nardil may be doing something, I thought it was making me more agressive with people, but I was wrong. Today my depression was terrible, and I had terrible mood reactivity, and still a lot of lethargy. I feel no one is really open to me, and I may be right. Everyone seems so closed minded to my likes and ideas which are very different and nonmain stream. I also feel very unapreaciated. Lately some friends have judged me for my symtemes ("all you need is exercise, or a change in diet"). Some have judged me for being unemployed and SSI and for taking meds. These judgements are very painful. I tire of defending myself. I don't know what and to who I should say to make them understand how much it hurts without scaring them away. How do you tell your friends you've had fantacys of suicide and nonexistant, and what are they expected to do about it? I thought I felt something before from the Nardil, but maybe not. I don't know what to do about the lack of appetite, and I need for the lethargy to at least go away soon, so I can funtion enough to get something done.
Posted by Michael D2 on September 22, 2003, at 14:45:05
In reply to Nardil and the end of a long road., posted by Blah on October 6, 2002, at 20:36:07
> I've suffered from Depression and Anxiety my entire life. My Parents were very emotionaly abusive in inconsistent ways, and I had no friends at all in school, in fact I was tortured on a daily basis.
Your story sounds familiar. I got a diagnosis of PTSD. I saw psych docs for 10 years before I got it- and I had to go to a trauma specialist to do it. (Technically, I diagnosed myself off the internet.)
From my periodic participation on this list, it seems to me that there are many psych patients on this list who have PTSD, but have not gotten that diagnosis.
Most mental ilnesses are related. In my case, I was mis-diagnosed as having Depression, and later as having Depression and anxiety. It seemed my youngness, and intelligence kept the pDocs from seeing how impaired I was from my psych problems. (The self-righteous 'tough-love' approach of many psychiatrists really upsets me.)
I suffer from derealization and depersonalization. I also have Seasonal Affective Disorder. The Seasonal Affective Disorder interacts with my other symptoms and causes me to become much more derealized and depresonalized in the fall and winter.
I'd be interested in hearing from people who have similar symptoms.
I have tried many drugs, and had sworn off trying any more. In a recent search on derealization, a www.dr-bob.org post came up and I'm now thinking of trying Nardil. I'd appreciate hearing from those of you who have tried SSRIs and Nardil.
For those of you who are struggling with more than depression, I recommend you look into Trauma and EMDR - Eye Movement Desensitation and Re-something or other.
Your symptoms might be related to a (1.) Emotional Abuse, (2.) Physical or Sexual Abuse,
(3.) A shocking or traumatic event, like an automobile accident, (4.) Birth Trauma, or early-development trauma. Most people take for granted that they can be traumatized so early in their development. Infants, in fact, have a greater chance of being traumatized since their brains are less able to 'handle' traumatic events.Michael D2
>I started deep analasis 3 times a week at 5 years old. It helped some, but I have been in some form of treatment ever since. I am now 28. I have tryed over 10 antidepressants including one triciclicate, prozac, zoloft, paxil, serzone, effexor, welbutrin, trazidone, rameron, and some more I can't remember. These antidepressants not only didn't work, but each actually hurt with cripling side effects. I have also tryed 2 stimulants.
>
> I have always had terrible problems with depression, anxiety, concentration, negative thoughts, social skills, insomnia, motivation, and other problems my whole life, and have been fighting them my whole life, but its just gotten worse and worse over the years. I now live on SSI, I haven't had a romantic relationship in over a decade, and I have no energy or concentration to do any of the things I want to do. For a year or so now being around people has been the only thing that made me feel better, but now even that feels empty or hopeless most of the time.
>
> I'm on .5 of Klonopin twice a day, and I started Nardil a little less than 3 weeks ago. I'm at 45mg now, but will probably go up to 60 tomarrow. When I can get up a good mood the Klonopin helps a bit but not much. The Nardil has done nothing so far (no side effects either though, which is good considering my past history). Within the last few weeks I've lost what little hope I had left, because of events in my life. I feel no woman can ever want me, that no one could ever care about the things i've always wanted to do, that I am too far behind in life, a total loss of energy (not that I had much to begin with), fantasising just fills me with feelings of guilt or pointlessness, and just total hopelessness. But in the end these are only the enevetable result of my lifelong mental illness. I know I have another 2-6 weeks before I may show results and I will hold out, but everyday is just something to be struggled through as I wait for this "miraculous change" that is supposed to occur. Also, when talking bout antidepressants people keep saying things like: "I have my life back," "I'm me again," "I feel Normal again." I've never had my life or happieness or funtionality, EVER. It's always been nothing but lonelyness and pain, it's just gotten worse over time. Can this or any drug really help me achive the confidecnce, possibilities for joy, and social conection that I've never really known. I've always had both hypervidulance and mood sencetivity as long as I can remember. I'm not sure what I'm asking, really I just need something to keep me going while I wait for Nardil to work. The MAOIs are really my last hope. I don't know how much longer I can go on. I have a therapist I like, but after my history she can only do so much. I'm checking out a day program at a hospital, but I've had so much therapy already, and the idea of entering such a comprehencive program seems like more time spent after bad.
>
> PS
> If you reply: Please no talk of CBT or DBT I tryed it and found it counter productive.
>
> I am not willing to have ECT which I belive to cause brain damage, and which is temporary anyway.
>
> Please no self rightious talk of self-esteem or loving myself. This only fills me with more shame, and really doesn't say anything since no one has perfect self-esteem.
>
> Sorry bout my bad spelling I didn't spell check.
>
> -Thanks
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 22, 2003, at 16:56:54
In reply to PTSD (was Re: Nardil and the end of a long road.), posted by Michael D2 on September 22, 2003, at 14:45:05
You've got such a tough situation. I, also, have PTSD from childhood physical and sexual abuse, with a lot of associated depression, anxiety and intermittent derealization and dissociation. The things which have helped me the most are 1) a psychoanalytically-oriented therapist who specializes in treating severe childhood trauma, 2) TMS, which only lasts a few months, but is extremely helpful in keeping depression at bay, and does not seem to have any negative side effects at all and 3) using T3 and T4 to keep my TSH levels at 0.5 or lower- this thyroid supplementation has been an excellent adjunct to the AD's- currently Lexapro. All of this has made a huge difference- for the better- in how I feel.
A year ago, and also for many years before that, I was struggling so hard with suicidal impulses, and was extremely withdrawn socially. This has now all but disappeared, and I am living a much happier and fuller life. Each of the physical measures plays a maybe small but important role- the TMS. Lexapro and the T3-4 augmentation- but I think that the most powerful force for change has been finding a trauma specialist to have therapy with.
I hope these thoughts have inspired some hope in you. If I have been able to do it, why not you?
Pfinstegg
The Nardil sounds like the best possible choice. Some people have to wait a number of weeks while they are getting the dose raised up to therapeutic levels, so give it plenty of time.
Posted by gypsea on September 22, 2003, at 22:57:27
In reply to PTSD (was Re: Nardil and the end of a long road.), posted by Michael D2 on September 22, 2003, at 14:45:05
I had just about lost hope. Finally, I was prescribed Nardil. That was in 1987. I'm now 35 and enjoy an asymptomatic, "normal" life. Nothing else worked at all. My Nardil/Klonapin cocktail (most any of the longer half-life benzos seem to work) did the trick. Though I could never have imagined it before Nardil, I'm now a very successful land developer, vocal public figure and look forward to parlaiting what I do into a course at a local university. I tell you this because I'm a firm believer in MAOIs (many times combined with a long half-life benzo). For obvious reasons, MAOIs are never the first choice. But, after exhausting every known alternative, Nardil gave me back my life. I sincerely hope that it does the same for you. After a successful history with the drug, I've even been able to reduce my dose to 30mgs a day. I wouldn't suggest that for quite a while. Despite what some conservative psychiatrists might tell you, Nardil does not have to mean giving up benzos. It's the cocktail that works for me. I went through a terrible period because a zealous shrink felt otherwise. If a doctor uses guilt to try to persuade you to discontinue using a drug that's been working for you, get a second (or even third or forth) opinion. I wish for you all the luck in the world with MAOIs. They often succeed where everything else has failed.
Phil
Posted by Michael D2 on September 23, 2003, at 8:44:07
In reply to Re: PTSD (was Re: Nardil and the end of a long road.) » Michael D2, posted by Pfinstegg on September 22, 2003, at 16:56:54
> The Nardil sounds like the best possible choice. Some people have to wait a number of weeks while they are getting the dose raised up to therapeutic levels, so give it plenty of time.
What I'm worried about is being 'fried'. The SSRIs and the Zyprexa that I tried all made me feel over-stimilated. I likened the feeling to being 'fried'.
Michael Dewolf
Posted by Tepiaca on September 23, 2003, at 23:26:54
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by BK on August 30, 2002, at 22:03:24
hi ,
what are you taking now instead of nardil ??
Im afraid of the pooping out , since it have worked very well for me in 1 mont a 2 weeks
Posted by Michael D2 on September 24, 2003, at 8:46:50
In reply to Re: Nardil » BK , posted by Tepiaca on September 23, 2003, at 23:26:54
> hi ,
> what are you taking now instead of nardil ??
> Im afraid of the pooping out , since it have worked very well for me in 1 mont a 2 weeksI haven't taken any drugs in quite a while. I did try many drugs, including several SSRIs and a few augmentation drugs.
The only thing that helped me was the bioadiazepams, but they pooped out after three weeks.
Interesting how Nardil affects, to a degree the same brain chemical that biodiazepams do - gaba.
Michael D
Posted by cosis on August 27, 2015, at 23:58:56
In reply to Nardil, posted by cosis on August 21, 2002, at 17:46:28
Wow I can't believe I've been on Nardil 13 years now. I've been through a lot of up's and downs but I owe so much to this drug. I've been married 8 years and have a 7 year old girl. Before starting Nardil I couldn't even leave my apartment. Even though this drug gets a lot of bad feedback I can't imagine where I would be without it. Probably still stuck and afraid to walk out my front door.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 29, 2015, at 0:17:36
In reply to Re: Nardil, posted by cosis on August 27, 2015, at 23:58:56
I had psychosis from Nardil.
This is the end of the thread.
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