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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2002, at 20:44:36
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by Servicedoggy on May 16, 2002, at 15:30:18
>
Q. Why do you think you have OCD?A. Cause I think about worrying about it all the time. No, not really. Mainly the ruminative worry and anal compulsive 'it's gotta be just right' that sap alot of my time and energy. When I'm teaching, my lesson plans have to be reworked forever, when I'm in a hypomanic episode my cleaning every damn dust bunny and criticizing my husband if he plays a computer game gets ridiculous. It's not consistent, but I'm finding that I'm ruminating on awful things about to happen much more than I used to and it's becoming disruptive. I just don't know how much is for real (the world is going to hell in a hand basket, after all) or how much is my brain running amok. So I'm looking for experiences to check it against (and check and check and check...).
Posted by Adam on May 16, 2002, at 21:35:29
In reply to Need OCD info and experiences, posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2002, at 14:42:06
Hey, Barbaracat,
I have an "OCD Spectrum Disorder," often referred to as "Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD)" or "Dysmorphophobia", or even "Body Dysmophia". Say all those ten times fast.
Depending on who you ask, I have just another form of OCD, or I have a different illness with some similarities to OCD. Regardless, BDD is best treated with the same therapies used to treat OCD; the current gold standards are cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT, with emphasis on the behavioral) and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs, examples are Prozac and Paxil), either alone or in combination. There is no good evidence that psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapies or non-serotonin potentiating drugs like desipramine have any efficacy for either OCD or its spectrum disorders.
Given the obvious practical similarities between OCD proper and what I've got, I tend to take a somewhat positivist view: If it looks like a duck, etc., it's a duck. In other words, I have OCD.
Well, if you're in agreement with that, we can proceed. BDD can be defined simply as an obsessive preoccupation with a purely percieved or relatively minor physical defect, with the accomanying behaviors associated with this preoccupation. These behaviors may include repeated examination of the defective feature, changes in posture or attire to compensate for the defect, avoidance of mirrors or other reflective surfaces, desire for or even the seeking out of surgical correction for the defect. I had all of these symptoms, and them some.
To this day, despite what I have learned, I still dislike my face. Specifically, I don't like my chin. I think it's too small. Sometimes I really hate it. By hate, I mean hate. I think it's fair enough to say I have a smaller-than-average chin. Maybe plastic surgery would improve my looks a little, I don't know.
However, the reality is, in my mind, at some level, I'm a freak. I'm deformed. I'm hideous. I would do anything to change my face, to make it "right".
Before I got treatment, I used to think about my chin constantly. I would push my chin outward to make it look bigger; sometimes my jaw muscles would ache from doing this persistantly. I hated catching my reflection without warning. Despite this, I spent a lot of my spare time in front of a mirror examining my chin. Actually, I would use two mirrors so I could check out my profile from different angles. I would stare at my natural profile (horror!), and then I would push my chin out so that I looked "better". Over and over. Day after day, whenever I could find time alone. More and more as time went on.
All this started around age 15 or 16, and by the time I was in my early twenties, it had become a seriously debilitating problem. Sometimes I could barely stand to be in front of people. How I ever managed to date anybody is beyond me. You can bet this terrible problem had an impact on my personal life. One thing about OCD: It's a big, dark secret. NO WAY did I want anyone to know I was checking myself out in mirrors all the time. I would have died of embarassment. This is one of the hallmarks, if you will, of OCD: You know it's almost insane. You may not know you've got an illness, but you do know nobody else would understand. I both believed in my self-perception, and yet recognized how unreasonable it was. Or, at least, I knew how unreasonable I would appear to someone else.
What's also treacherous is the seeking of reassurance once you've opened up a little about the secret. Since I had did have girlfriends, I would eventually break down and ask: Is my chin too small? Invariably I would be told "Oh, it's not that bad," or "What do you mean? It fits your face," or, at worst, "Well, yeah, maybe a little, but you have such nice eyes and cheekbones, and I love your smile." All I would hear was "Well, yeah, maybe a little." Nothing else mattered for long. Soon, I would just ask again. I quite litterally drove someone away with my persistant need to be told I was OK. From that experience, I learned not to ask so much as to be dumped over it, and nothing more.
It really was terrible. It's still hard sometimes, though not nearly so bad as in the past. The worst thing, I think, was simply not knowing I had a problem besides being a hideously deformed freak. Just learning I had this illness was major improvment. How I found out was kind of amazing, but that's a whole other story I won't tell here. Anyway, once I got diagnosed, I started getting therapy.
Behavioral therapy is no fun. It can range from simple chages in daily habits to elaborate forms of torture. An example of the former was I had to stop checking and posturing in some mirrors, and avoiding my reflection in others. You would think I would be happy to be free of time-consuming ritual checking, but it was very, very difficult to give it up. Really, my whole approach to mirrors needed to chage. I had to avoid avoidance, and check all checking.
The worst was still to come. This particular therapist used the Death Star approach to your worst nightmares, with cheerful enthusiasm. He actually would hire professional actors, give then a scenerio, and let them improvise. My scenerio: I step up to a salad bar in a restaurant, and two rude patrons in a booth catch sight of me. They barely make an effort to conceal their derision as they verbally shred me for their own amusement. This tender dialog was tape-recorded and handed over to me, to listen to every day on my Walkman, while riding the train to work, for instance.
These people were awful. "Shh. Wait. Hey, look at that guy over there. Where? Oh, THAT guy! Yeah! I mean look at him! I know! He has, like, NO CHIN! He looks like a ferret! That's it, a ferret! Ferret-face! Oh, my God, what a freak. I am Ferret Man, from the planet Ferreton! Shhh-shhh, he can hear you! Do you think he's ugly? What, you have to ask?" And so on.
Cruel. And very painful. It hurt so much I would be in tears sometimes, because this is exactly the kind of thing I just knew went on whever I was in a public place and people saw me.
So, some of the therapy for OCD involves breaking habits, and some of it involves exposure. If you had a contamination obsession, you can imagine what a good therapist would have you doing: You might wind up, eventually, sticking your hands in a bucket of dirt, after which you are NOT allowed to wash them.
Exposure causes a lot of anxiety. The whole big theory about OCD, as I undersand it, is that anxiety over an obsession often leads to some action to help relieve the anxiety. This becomes a vicious cycle. The rituals that the typical OCD sufferer uses to deal with their anxiety are a direct response to the nature of the obsession; they are fleetingly helpful, and typically lead to more obsessing, with the resultant increase in ritualistic behavior. The ritual does nothing to dispell the irrational obsession (it might even reenforce it), and the temporary relief it brings only leads to a greater dependance on the ritual. You wind up spending more and more time obsessing, and more and more time engaged in useless, repetative behaviors. The key is to break the cycle, to stop the OCD sufferer from giving into the obsession and engaging in rituals and avoidance. One is weened off of the rituals, and forced to confront what is the most anxiety-provoking with exposure. If all goes well, one is increasingly desensitized, anxiety is reduced, and the obsessions eventually lose their strength.
Long-winded, I know! But I think some time is worth spending on my story, or something like it, to get the insight needed to really answer the questions that you asked. I spent a long time on the psychotherapy aspect for two reasons: one, it's clearly the most complex way to deal with OCD so it takes more effort to get a feel for it, and two, in my oppinion, when it works, it is preferable to drugs. If a drug works for you, I think you simply find relief from obsessions, and hence will not feel compelled to engage in ritualistic behavior. Typically, people who discontinue drug therapy for OCD relapse. However, the research tells us that people who are successfully treated with cognitive-behavioral therapy have a much lower rate of relapse. Drugs don't teach you very much, while therapy does. Unfortunately, some people do not respond, or only partially respond to therapy. In those cases, I think drugs are appropriate. In some studies, the combination of drug therapy and behavioral therapy was superior to either alone. At any rate, therapy has no troubling side-effects, and SSRIs unfortunately do sometimes. I think CBT should be the first-line treatment for OCD, and, if that fails, drugs should be added.
I hope this is helpful, BarbaraCat!
Posted by MomO3 on May 16, 2002, at 22:01:13
In reply to Need OCD info and experiences, posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2002, at 14:42:06
My OCD presents itself in my yard. For the last 2 years I have been working to create the perfect playyard for my children... I think as far as their concerned it IS perfect... but not for me...
Last year we had 8 yards of dirt delivered and a truck full of sod, I spent 2 days laying sod while my husband watched the children.
Now that it's 'finished' - when I take my children out side to play - am I pushing them in the swings? no... am I playing with them in the gravel? no.. am I helping them on the slide?... again no...
so what am I doing? Well there are weeds in my yard, I walk out there and it's the only thing I can see, weeds everywhere - oh and it's not perfectly level like a golf course - so I am going around with a hand shovel and sprinkling sand trying to make everything level, and pulling every weed I see by hand...
It's obsessive - i can't see anything but the defects in my yard mainly weeds, weeds, weeds - I can't sit back and enjoy all of the hard work I have put into it - unless I look at the sky ( I can't fix anything up there).
It's compulsive - while pushing 3 children on the swings I will spot a weed that I just can't stand to look at anymore and I just HAVE to walk away from my children to go pull that one weed... well once I get there, there is always another one and another one, etc...
my poor children are left sitting in the swings wondering why mommy is more concerned about the grass than them...!!
Posted by rainbowlight on May 16, 2002, at 23:34:54
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by MomO3 on May 16, 2002, at 22:01:13
I thought I was the alone that can only see the defects in things. For me it is my house. I can never enjoy it, I am always finding imaginary dirt that needs to be cleaned. I clean and reclean and it never seems "clean" to me. So stupid and so time consuming! I wish I could just stop, but that never happens. Your example of putting your hands in dirt and than not washing them made me cringe! LOL!
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2002, at 23:45:29
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by Adam on May 16, 2002, at 21:35:29
Wow, Servicedoggy! I don't care a fig about your chin or any other physical manifestation of this mortal coil. You are one hell of a writer! That story is amazing, had me laughing in tears at the Ferret Man routine. That belongs on a 'SNL Does Therapy' skit.
It brought back memories of my hating my nose when I was an adolescent. I trained myself to fall asleep so that my nose was pushed up flat against the bed in order to train it into a Gidget-like turned up perkiness. Why I've had chronic respiratory problems suddenly makes perfect sense! I used to draw endless pictures - I mean hours on end - of women in 3/4 profile, all with perfect little button like noses. My nose doesn't concern me at all now even though not model perfect. It's a fine nose, even with it's little bump. Thank God I didn't end up with a real oinker Miss Piggy nose as a result of mattress therapy.
But I get the picture about how something like that can escalate into a worthy subject for obsession. I've been doing some more research on it and my stuff falls more into the anxious depression camp.
Any how, thanks for a great treat reading your courageous reply. I think we all have a book in us and you've got a best seller. All the best to you. - BCat
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 0:36:40
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by MomO3 on May 16, 2002, at 22:01:13
I have a real perfectionist thing that shows up in weird ways. I'll walk out of a restaraunt if the lighting isn't just so. Either that or I'll fret about it and not notice the splendid Vietnamese pho I'm eating. Or for a small dinner party I'll clean the house til I drop for days before and until the guests are ringing the doorbell, after staying up all night cooking some Julia Child masterpiece that I've spent way too much money on.
The other way it presents, and why I asked you all about it today is this: We moved to a small rural community to get away from the city. I HATE noise and traffic and I HATE feeling confined and claustrophobic. Anything short of a virtual padded room feels like constant nails on a blackboard and is torture.
There's land around us that's zoned and ready to go for sticking in double-wides. There's been no movement to build for years, and with the economy such as it is there's no immediate danger of the bulldozers coming in tomorrow. But every day I clench up when I think about the possibility. I look at the trees and the fields and all I can see is desolation waiting to happen.
Today a contractor was there moving dirt for another site - nothing directly related to the land in question, but it burned new fear and panic into my psyche. I watched myself becoming wound up and frantic and could not stop. No amount of Klonopin even dents that kind of frenzy.
The long and short of it is that it triggered this totally consumed behavior where I was calling every county council office in a 100 mile radius trying to find out information on permits, how I can stop it from happening, trying to get some CONTROL over the outcome. I did this all morning. I had to force myself to stop to go to the bathroom and then I was right back at it until my husband came home and saw what I was doing and talked me down.
I'm TERRIFIED that our little plot of country paradise is going to be destroyed and hemmed in by real estate. I'm HEARTSICK that the quiet will be shattered by bulldozers and jack hammers. This is a real and valid fear, but to take it to this level! To devote the effort and brilliant dedicated painstaking research into this all consuming project is what concerns me. I can't make peace with this thing and perhaps I never will. Moving seems like the only answer to this particular dilemma, but it's not an isolated case. I can't sleep when I get like this. It's like a switch gets turned on and I start noticing every noise and begin to twitch and fret and cannot for the life of me chill out. I've been saying the Serenity Prayer like a mantra and feel better now, but holy crap, this cortisol surge takes the starch out of me. So how does a super- sensitive overcaring tightly-wrapped soul deal with Life Sucks 101? - Barbara
Posted by fairnymph on May 17, 2002, at 4:32:29
In reply to Need OCD info and experiences, posted by BarbaraCat on May 16, 2002, at 14:42:06
When I first went on prozac (which very effectively cured my OCD while I was on it), I noticed that my brain worked in a totally different way, and for the first time I truly understood what it is like for my brain to operate normally, and how different the functioning of the OCD brain is.
The best way that I can explain it to you is thus:
When you have OCD, and you are obsessing about something (and if you have it enough to be diagnosed, you will nearly always be obsessing about something, to some degree), then that train of thought (thinking about whatever it is) will persist from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep at night. An example -- let's say I have a test I am stressing about. Well, all day long I will be thinking about this test. No matter what I am doing -- eating, showering, having sex, studying, socializing, whatever -- I cannot stop thinking about that test. Even if I am thnking of other things, thinking/worrying about the test persists in the back of my mind and cannot be dispelled no matter how hard I try. Many such obsessive trains of thought can exist simultaneously, and they often change from day to day. But almost always, I am obsessing about SOMETHING.When I was on prozac, I began to observe that iinstead of my thoughts being one long drawn out thought (as in ocd world), I had SEPARATE thoughts! This was like a great revelation to me, that I could have different, separate thoughts; that I could think about something for a while and then STOP thinking about it and move on to an entirely different thought. There was this amazing FLUIDITY to my thought process that I had never experienced before. Thoughts came and went, there was none of this persistant worry and anxiety.
As for treating OCD....I've tried Prozac, Remeron, Effexor, Reboxetine, and Tianeptine...and ONLY Prozac really helped my OCD. Unfortunately it had other side effects which I could not tolerate. :(
~fairnymph
Hi All,
> I'm here wondering about OCD and thinking 'hmmmm, maybe I need to look at this more closely'. So, I'd really appreciate some info from y'all who have experience with it.
>
> I think most of us are aware of the stereotypical symptoms - checking over and over, intrusive thoughts, washing till hands are raw, etc., but what does it feel like? How do the ruminative thoughts in OCD differ from those in major depression? How does obsessing about a problem or idea in OCD differ from excessive worry due to an anxiety disorder? Are there shades of hypomania? Basically, what's the gist of it and what's an effective treatment?
Posted by tinker on May 17, 2002, at 8:41:55
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by fairnymph on May 17, 2002, at 4:32:29
Hi I really enjoyed all of the above posts. I have ocd, but the doctor mentioned that body dysmorphic symptom. I used to obsess about animals being abused. I couldn't go to the mall on a hot day incase I heard barking coming from a car. This would send me into a complete panic. I used to take clomapramine. And it worked really well for me, but it was quite sedating, so this past May the doc swiched me to zoloft. I developed tinnitus. Its almost gone but I cant stop obsessing on the noise, wondering if I am hearing it, if its pulsing, or what its doing. The manufacturer told me it was caused by elevated levels of seratonin. Clomapramine also has elevated levels of seratonin, and now I'm afraid to go back to it. I am caught in a loop right now big time. Tinker
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 11:12:17
In reply to OCD , posted by tinker on May 17, 2002, at 8:41:55
These posts have been a revelation. Like you, Tinker, I constantly worry about animals being abused. I love the critters and the thought of someone hurting an animal somewhere as we speak sends me into a helpless fury. Not always, but especially true if I'm going through an agitated depression. I could usually tell where I was at emotionally by the lobster tank at our former local supermarket. If I could walk by the lobster tank without breaking into great gusts of sobbing then I was OK, I could handle the rest of life. A few times, however, I was in the aisles and a few people came up and asked if I needed help cause I was slumped against the shelves weeping, not able to get the cries for help from the lobsters out of my head. They probably weren't terribly happy about their situation, but jeez, I don't think this level of anguish was realistic or healthy for me.
At the height of a bad agitated depression a few years ago I was constantly obsessing about going blind (no reason whatsoever - my vision is near perfect). Like you said, RainbowLight, the thought was always there somewhere in the back of my mind like a running musical score. I'd be about to do whatever and it would grab me "ohmygod, what if I go blind and end up not only old, crippled, depressed but blind as well?' and then sure enough I'd get hit with a massive panic attack. This was all going on, by the way, while I was ingesting 200mg of Zoloft daily and seeing a therapist. Xanax helped somewhat when I ended up in the emergency ward a few times for these attacks (always brought on by some obsessive dread), but my doc wouldn't refill it for 'addiction potentional'. I eventually ended up in a psych ward for 2 weeks during this spell because I couldn't get the disaster thoughts out of my head. I felt like a raw exposed nerve ending with these tortuous thoughts and dreams setting up shop in my mind.
I'm definitely not like this most of the time and am for the most part quite mellow and adaptable - more 'normal' than most folks I see struggling with life. It's just that when the crazies hit, I'm lost until time allows some kind of equilibrium. That's why it's so frustrating cause it's all cyclical and slippery. But I'm seeing my patterns more clearly and think I definitely have overtones of OCD from what I'm hearing from you all. I don't think it's the primary dx however (it's now BPII), and it sounds like the treatment isn't too different from what I'm currently receiving. But who can say anymore with the dx's migrating around from one disorder to another? I probably need alot more CBT, but heck, I KNOW and normally use all that stuff! It just deserts me when I really need it.
> Hi I really enjoyed all of the above posts. I have ocd, but the doctor mentioned that body dysmorphic symptom. I used to obsess about animals being abused. I couldn't go to the mall on a hot day incase I heard barking coming from a car. This would send me into a complete panic. I used to take clomapramine. And it worked really well for me, but it was quite sedating, so this past May the doc swiched me to zoloft. I developed tinnitus. Its almost gone but I cant stop obsessing on the noise, wondering if I am hearing it, if its pulsing, or what its doing. The manufacturer told me it was caused by elevated levels of seratonin. Clomapramine also has elevated levels of seratonin, and now I'm afraid to go back to it. I am caught in a loop right now big time. Tinker
Posted by Kat26 on May 17, 2002, at 12:31:38
In reply to Here's my OCD story, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 0:36:40
Hello Barbara,
these are symptoms of OCD I have had:
- feeling responsible for everything and everybody. For example, seeing something lying in the street and having to get off the bus to pick it up so nobody would trip over it. Or seeing unevenness in sidewalk and having to report it to the city department. Same with any smell that somehow resemles gas smell, even if it is just a whiff outside somewhere and could be ANYTHING (like soup cooking, or sewer, or whatever).
- It got to the point where I just hardly could look outside anymore when riding on the bus or with somebody in a car. The whole world seemed just so cluttered with scary things to obsess about that I just had to keep my eyes closed. Sometimes even when walking. Which made me sad, as I could not enjoy things anymore. I tried to look outside from a bus even for 10 seconds and my anxiety just skyrocketed.
- Also feeling responsible for tiny creatures like insects, checking fountains for drowning insects and collecting bags full of trash to save the ants from being picked up by garbage collectors, etc.
- Also feeling responsible for people on the internet. About 1 1/2 years ago I went through a phase when I would stay at the computer lab till the early hours of the morning making sure nobody was suicidal or otherwise not doing good, and it could somehow be my responsibility for not being there.
- Checking on people I saw, especially homeless people sleeping outside (I live in San Francisco, lots of them here)
- Superstitious thinking: "If I don't do X, something bad will happen". Just random thoughts that popped into my head, and then I would have to do it.
- Along the same line: If somebody said certain things like "this is killing me" or "go to hell" I panicked, because I thought it might somehow come true, and I spent sleepless hours thinking how I could make that person "take it back", etc... driving people crazy by constantly asking and reasking things and trying to make them rephrase sentences.
-feeling guilty VERY easily, even about things just thoughtI am sure there was more. As for treatment, I did only a very short term cognitive behavioral thing, but think what really helped me is the prozac. The symptoms have practically disappeared. It didn't even take long.
Trying to cut down my dose from 40 to 30 now... when I lok at my symptom list I get a little nervous about that... LOL...Kat26
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 12:50:20
In reply to Re: Here's my OCD story, posted by Kat26 on May 17, 2002, at 12:31:38
Hi Kat26,
What strikes me about these stories is that so much of what we obsess about is really kind, considerate and compassionate stuff - brave, even. I'm sure there's a special place in the heart of the Divine for someone who is so caring about little bugs. It's almost like there are so many shmucks in the world that a certain group gets to take up their slack. It doesn't help anyone, though, if we burn ourselves out in the process. - Barbara> Hello Barbara,
>
> these are symptoms of OCD I have had:
>
> - feeling responsible for everything and everybody. For example, seeing something lying in the street and having to get off the bus to pick it up so nobody would trip over it. Or seeing unevenness in sidewalk and having to report it to the city department. Same with any smell that somehow resemles gas smell, even if it is just a whiff outside somewhere and could be ANYTHING (like soup cooking, or sewer, or whatever).
> - It got to the point where I just hardly could look outside anymore when riding on the bus or with somebody in a car. The whole world seemed just so cluttered with scary things to obsess about that I just had to keep my eyes closed. Sometimes even when walking. Which made me sad, as I could not enjoy things anymore. I tried to look outside from a bus even for 10 seconds and my anxiety just skyrocketed.
> - Also feeling responsible for tiny creatures like insects, checking fountains for drowning insects and collecting bags full of trash to save the ants from being picked up by garbage collectors, etc.
> - Also feeling responsible for people on the internet. About 1 1/2 years ago I went through a phase when I would stay at the computer lab till the early hours of the morning making sure nobody was suicidal or otherwise not doing good, and it could somehow be my responsibility for not being there.
> - Checking on people I saw, especially homeless people sleeping outside (I live in San Francisco, lots of them here)
> - Superstitious thinking: "If I don't do X, something bad will happen". Just random thoughts that popped into my head, and then I would have to do it.
> - Along the same line: If somebody said certain things like "this is killing me" or "go to hell" I panicked, because I thought it might somehow come true, and I spent sleepless hours thinking how I could make that person "take it back", etc... driving people crazy by constantly asking and reasking things and trying to make them rephrase sentences.
> -feeling guilty VERY easily, even about things just thought
>
> I am sure there was more. As for treatment, I did only a very short term cognitive behavioral thing, but think what really helped me is the prozac. The symptoms have practically disappeared. It didn't even take long.
> Trying to cut down my dose from 40 to 30 now... when I lok at my symptom list I get a little nervous about that... LOL...
>
> Kat26
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 13:14:14
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by MomO3 on May 16, 2002, at 22:01:13
> It's obsessive - i can't see anything but the defects in my yard mainly weeds, weeds, weeds - I can't sit back and enjoy all of the hard work I have put into it - unless I look at the sky ( I can't fix anything up there).
>
Dear Mom,
Well, that proves that everyone has their own special obsession. My husband is pretty healthy - oh, he has his quirks like anyone else, but for the most part he's laid back and rational. But his big obsessive target is the sky! He looks up there and all he sees are the 'chem trails' that the secret government are laying down in order to carry out their nefarious designs upon us. We'll be looking at a gorgeous sunset or a clear blue sky and he's going 'Look, there's another one! Those f**ckers! Look! that's one over there!' Kinda ruins the moment for me. He'll start grinding his teeth and I have to keep reminding him that you gotta have trust, things are going to be *OK*!He's spent hours and hours calling up the FAA and is on several internet groups that devote themselves to tracking such things. The point is that there probably is something going on that's not quite Kosher, but perhaps it's totally benign and not part of the New World Order conspiracies at all? Interesting how focusing on something for good or bad makes it real for us.
Gee, I sure hope I haven't fouled up your one safe haven... I guess, don't worry about this. He and his cronies are keeping on top of them! - and at least he's not in the bars. - Barbara
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 15:53:06
In reply to Re: Here's my OCD story, posted by Kat26 on May 17, 2002, at 12:31:38
I need your support and some good thoughts sent my way, gang. There's a bulldozer in my back yard pulling down a lovely little hill that has spring flowers growing on it. It acted as a shield for the rest of the destruction going on out there and was my cat's perch. I pleaded with the guy in the big old tractor to please leave it since he's just moving it to another location a few yards away and he just chuckled and shook his head. This guy is a sadist. He just moves dirt around all day long and is trying to pressure us into buying adjacent lots for an outrageous price (he's the owner's nephew).
This is a nightmare and such a heartbreaker. This is the first home we've been able to own and just love it. We knew the lots were there when we bought it, but were assured by many people in town that 'nothing has happened there - the guy's just using them for a tax write off'. I guess we should've known better but fell in love with the area anyway. The land vistas and trees just go on and on. There are birds nesting in those trees. It's quiet and is like a wildlife sanctuary. My cats are now running around freaking out from the noise and the tractor 15 feet from the kitchen windows and I'm on the edge of losing it. I've got to get out of here, I'm so very very sad and the grinding crunching rape of it is horrible.
If I don't work with this and somehow try to find something positive in it I will soon be a total wreck. So here's a plan. For some reason this isn't the place we're supposed to be, it's too threatening to my sanity staying here watching this sacred land turned into a dug out crater and waiting for the manufactured homes to be moved in. But to move will take an awful lot of mobilization, clearing out years worth of clutter from the garage (yes, we moved it from the old place), and coming up with a bunch of money. Also cleaning up bad credit, submitting 4 years worth of tax returns I was too sick and depressed to handle and my husband too complacent to bother with. I'm not going to move again and drag the same old clutter and debts to some other shakey ground. Basically, it means it's time to get off the pot.
This is as good an incentive as any to get well, physically, emotionally, and financially. I've got the whole summer and fall to make alot of changes, hold garage sales, file taxes, get my bod into a lean mean machine before I need to go back to work to start making the big bucks again. To go back to those little gray cubicles and sit in front of a computer all day will take major health and sanity.
I can live with this for that long. Dear Hubby will just have to get off his ass as well and start contributing instead of hanging out on unemployment. OK, I can obsess with the best of them, but this is real, it's a threat that needs action. Here's where the rubber meets the road, folks. I'm going to take all this swirling manic psychosis and the nervous pain in my muscles and hone it like a laser. I need to focus it into constructive action instead of giving into my current fantasy of plotting to kill this guy on the tractor. I'm mad as hell and I ain't gonna take it!!!! But please, anyone who reads this, if you could just take a moment to send me some strength right now, I sure could use it. - Barbara
Posted by Marie416 on May 17, 2002, at 16:03:47
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences » MomO3, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 13:14:14
OCD is not fun to go through but can be funny after the fact. My best friend has to take the trash out as soon as one thing is put in there and the entire house has to be spotless. When we were younger she had to vacuum the rugs in perfectly straight lines and if she messed up, it was back to the drawing board. She also used to have to say things 3 times and if she felt like she messed up, another 3 times and then another. I remember as kids that I thought she was kidding/playing a game when she did that. I too have had my own experience with it, as a child at times I would feel this excessive desire to fix the part in someone's hair and feel very frustrated if I couldn't do it (especially watching TV) In my 20's I experienced the worst of all my obsessions, the obsession that I had a very hard time talking about to anyone and when I did I felt like an idiot. I started having anxiety attacks and developed tinnitus and my hearing just felt really acute all the time. I could not stop obsessing over the Phantom sounds and then I couldn't stop obsessing over the fact that I felt I was going crazy and then I started repeating sounds to myself. It was as if I was checking to make sure the sound was real and whether I was going crazy or not. Every time a door slammed or any object clicked or made a sharp noise I would repeat the sound in my mind over and over and over again until I would replay sounds so often I felt that I could constantly hear the sound. It was the most excruciating time in my life. I even started trying to put objects down lightly so I wouldn't make a loud noise. And on top of that I would repeat in my mind what anyone would say as soon as they were done saying it. OCD is different than obsessing, obsessing is linked to depression, OCD is repetitous. It's not so much obsessing about different topics, that's more straight anxiety. It's the same one or two thoughts over and over from morning until night.
Posted by tinker on May 17, 2002, at 20:19:47
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by Marie416 on May 17, 2002, at 16:03:47
Marie, I am very interested in your tinnitus experience, as I am going through something very simiar now. Did it end? What medication helped you? How long did it last, and are you over it now for the most part. Thanks for sharing - Tinker
Posted by Kat26 on May 17, 2002, at 21:41:43
In reply to We're all such sweeties! » Kat26, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 12:50:20
You are right about the fact that we won't help anybody if we burn ourselves out. I have realized that now that my OCD is under control, I am able to do much more good stuff than before! Yes, before I would push myself to do so much much much, probably helping some people (and some bugs) on the way, but mostly just building up more and more anger at myself and other people... wearing myself out.
I am now still very involved with helping homeless people. For the first time in my life I can actually have a job in the social services field (beofre it would have just been too much). I can feel love and spread love. And I do still care about bugs :-), oh, I am a vegetarian too. I have realized that there is only so much we can do.Kat26
Posted by oona on May 18, 2002, at 0:15:35
In reply to The bulldozers are here!!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 15:53:06
> I need your support and some good thoughts sent my way, gang. There's a bulldozer in my back yard pulling down a lovely little hill that has spring flowers growing on it. It acted as a shield for the rest of the destruction going on out there and was my cat's perch. I pleaded with the guy in the big old tractor to please leave it since he's just moving it to another location a few yards away and he just chuckled and shook his head. This guy is a sadist. He just moves dirt around all day long and is trying to pressure us into buying adjacent lots for an outrageous price (he's the owner's nephew).
>
> This is a nightmare and such a heartbreaker. This is the first home we've been able to own and just love it. We knew the lots were there when we bought it, but were assured by many people in town that 'nothing has happened there - the guy's just using them for a tax write off'. I guess we should've known better but fell in love with the area anyway. The land vistas and trees just go on and on. There are birds nesting in those trees. It's quiet and is like a wildlife sanctuary. My cats are now running around freaking out from the noise and the tractor 15 feet from the kitchen windows and I'm on the edge of losing it. I've got to get out of here, I'm so very very sad and the grinding crunching rape of it is horrible.
>
> If I don't work with this and somehow try to find something positive in it I will soon be a total wreck. So here's a plan. For some reason this isn't the place we're supposed to be, it's too threatening to my sanity staying here watching this sacred land turned into a dug out crater and waiting for the manufactured homes to be moved in. But to move will take an awful lot of mobilization, clearing out years worth of clutter from the garage (yes, we moved it from the old place), and coming up with a bunch of money. Also cleaning up bad credit, submitting 4 years worth of tax returns I was too sick and depressed to handle and my husband too complacent to bother with. I'm not going to move again and drag the same old clutter and debts to some other shakey ground. Basically, it means it's time to get off the pot.
>
> This is as good an incentive as any to get well, physically, emotionally, and financially. I've got the whole summer and fall to make alot of changes, hold garage sales, file taxes, get my bod into a lean mean machine before I need to go back to work to start making the big bucks again. To go back to those little gray cubicles and sit in front of a computer all day will take major health and sanity.
>
> I can live with this for that long. Dear Hubby will just have to get off his ass as well and start contributing instead of hanging out on unemployment. OK, I can obsess with the best of them, but this is real, it's a threat that needs action. Here's where the rubber meets the road, folks. I'm going to take all this swirling manic psychosis and the nervous pain in my muscles and hone it like a laser. I need to focus it into constructive action instead of giving into my current fantasy of plotting to kill this guy on the tractor. I'm mad as hell and I ain't gonna take it!!!! But please, anyone who reads this, if you could just take a moment to send me some strength right now, I sure could use it. - BarbaraHi,
We are living in a similiar area that will soon be subdivided. Some of the area neighbors have formed land use orgs to use the laws that are on the books to make it harder for the developers. At any rate we also decided not to run Where is there to go? We do have 30 acres around us so there is a buffer but we decided that when they get to our property line we would build some really good fences and do a lot of creative landscaping..You can not give them the power over you, you can not let them pull your strings and that is what they are doing to you. You are the master of your own universe. OCD or no, Let it go.. (HEY, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT BUMPER STICKER)
OCD OR NO...LET IT GO...Just to update you, I am on week three of Celexa and Risperadol... doing pretty good.. time will tell...
oona
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 18, 2002, at 1:20:29
In reply to Re: The bulldozers are here!! » BarbaraCat, posted by oona on May 18, 2002, at 0:15:35
>
> You can not give them the power over you, you can not let them pull your strings and that is what they are doing to you. You are the master of your own universe. OCD or no, Let it go.. (HEY, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT BUMPER STICKER)
> OCD OR NO...LET IT GO...
>
> Just to update you, I am on week three of Celexa and Risperadol... doing pretty good.. time will tell...
> oonaThanks, Oona, needed to hear that. I very much like your idea about the land use organisation. There are many neighbors here who feel the same way we do and want to do something. Any suggestions as to where to start looking for land use laws and other needed knowledge?
BTW, glad to hear that the Celexa and Ris are helping. Anything specific about the combo you like? I was on Celexa for a short time and don't recall anything about it one way or the other. - Barbara
Posted by Zo on May 18, 2002, at 4:24:12
In reply to The bulldozers are here!!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 15:53:06
Posted by tinker on May 18, 2002, at 7:36:40
In reply to The bulldozers are here!!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 15:53:06
How are you feeling today. In case moving doesnt work out, I thought I would tell you about the 20 ft hedge my mom has out of cedars. Its very private and the birds love it. Keep up your spirit. Hang in there.- Tinker
Posted by oona on May 18, 2002, at 9:26:25
In reply to Re: The bulldozers are here!!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 18, 2002, at 1:20:29
>
> >
> > You can not give them the power over you, you can not let them pull your strings and that is what they are doing to you. You are the master of your own universe. OCD or no, Let it go.. (HEY, THAT WOULD BE A GREAT BUMPER STICKER)
> > OCD OR NO...LET IT GO...
> >
> > Just to update you, I am on week three of Celexa and Risperadol... doing pretty good.. time will tell...
> > oona
>
> Thanks, Oona, needed to hear that. I very much like your idea about the land use organisation. There are many neighbors here who feel the same way we do and want to do something. Any suggestions as to where to start looking for land use laws and other needed knowledge?
>
> BTW, glad to hear that the Celexa and Ris are helping. Anything specific about the combo you like? I was on Celexa for a short time and don't recall anything about it one way or the other. - BarbaraNot sure I know yet about the Celexa, it does give me dry mouth but will give it another two months to see if that clears up. Have not been depressed or overly anxious (anymore than is usual) The Risperadol was different. Glad you mentioned the combo of AD and mood stabilizer to me. When the pdoc mentioned this to me, I felt more comfortable about it as had heard about combos here already. Sleep thru the night now on the Risperadol.
As far as the OCD goes, not sure I have that although I save all my dog food cans after I wash them! Not a hobby but hate to throw them away and hopefully one day will use them when we build our straw bale house. They say you can fill them with cement or mud and use them around the windows and doors for stabilization? So I built a big pen out of old pallets (recycle)and put them in there. Maybe RECYCLERS are all showing symptoms of OCD? ha ha ... No, really it would upset me if I had to throw away those cans and my husband is considerate enought to go along with me.
As far as land use orgs., make a friend of a realtor that knows your local laws. Go to meetings in your county that approves zoning and other changes. Find out what the permits and rules are as if "you were going to subdivide" and watch to see if your neighbor is paying attention. Call the local inspectors to see if your neighbor has "permits" when he starts with the bulldozer. Lastly, contact your local orgs that deal with "archeology" usually with local University. Nowadays if you dig up "anything" that has significance (depending) on where you live, the dig is usually stopped till research can be done. Those are just a few.
good luck,
oona
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 18, 2002, at 16:30:47
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by fairnymph on May 17, 2002, at 4:32:29
I definitely have OCD because I have found that my thought pattern is much like you describe. My recently increased dose of Prozac really helps. I too notice that I can stop thinking about just one thought--its kind of amazing -- like a brand new experience.
It is good to know there are others who really know about OCD and can describe it so well as you did. Thanks
Posted by MomO3 on May 18, 2002, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences » MomO3, posted by BarbaraCat on May 17, 2002, at 13:14:14
Barbara
LOL... maybe you should just show your husband all of the flaws on the ground, and you can sidetrack him for a while....
Posted by Iago Camboa on May 19, 2002, at 3:52:12
In reply to Re: The bulldozers are here!!, posted by BarbaraCat on May 18, 2002, at 1:20:29
Hi Barb,
Please tell me about all meds you are taking, in what doses and how you feel (in detail). Could not sleep during the whole night thinking you could need me (nonsense, I'm the other side of the Atlantic...)
I only hope you and your husband drove away and are spending the weekend somewhere far from that jumbly mess and you both dawned great this morning...Yours,
Iago
Posted by Sarahmarie on May 19, 2002, at 9:38:05
In reply to Re: Need OCD info and experiences, posted by fairnymph on May 17, 2002, at 4:32:29
> When I first went on prozac (which very effectively cured my OCD while I was on it), I noticed that my brain worked in a totally different way, and for the first time I truly understood what it is like for my brain to operate normally, and how different the functioning of the OCD brain is.
>
> The best way that I can explain it to you is thus:
> When you have OCD, and you are obsessing about something (and if you have it enough to be diagnosed, you will nearly always be obsessing about something, to some degree), then that train of thought (thinking about whatever it is) will persist from the moment you wake up until you go to sleep at night. An example -- let's say I have a test I am stressing about. Well, all day long I will be thinking about this test. No matter what I am doing -- eating, showering, having sex, studying, socializing, whatever -- I cannot stop thinking about that test. Even if I am thnking of other things, thinking/worrying about the test persists in the back of my mind and cannot be dispelled no matter how hard I try. Many such obsessive trains of thought can exist simultaneously, and they often change from day to day. But almost always, I am obsessing about SOMETHING.
>
> When I was on prozac, I began to observe that iinstead of my thoughts being one long drawn out thought (as in ocd world), I had SEPARATE thoughts! This was like a great revelation to me, that I could have different, separate thoughts; that I could think about something for a while and then STOP thinking about it and move on to an entirely different thought. There was this amazing FLUIDITY to my thought process that I had never experienced before. Thoughts came and went, there was none of this persistant worry and anxiety.
>
> As for treating OCD....I've tried Prozac, Remeron, Effexor, Reboxetine, and Tianeptine...and ONLY Prozac really helped my OCD. Unfortunately it had other side effects which I could not tolerate. :(
>
> ~fairnymph
>
>
> Hi All,
> > I'm here wondering about OCD and thinking 'hmmmm, maybe I need to look at this more closely'. So, I'd really appreciate some info from y'all who have experience with it.
> >
> > I think most of us are aware of the stereotypical symptoms - checking over and over, intrusive thoughts, washing till hands are raw, etc., but what does it feel like? How do the ruminative thoughts in OCD differ from those in major depression? How does obsessing about a problem or idea in OCD differ from excessive worry due to an anxiety disorder? Are there shades of hypomania? Basically, what's the gist of it and what's an effective treatment?I definitely have OCD, however it is not just limited to ruminating thoughts. When I am trying to figure something out I obssess on that for days and hours. I can be at work and my brain is spending a 50% of every hour thinking about the problem. I think about things when I go to bed and hope that somehow I will awake with an answer or a solution. I also have some physical OCD things that I do,but are rather embarrasing for me to discuss. I too am on Prozac and that seems to have helped the most particularly with the behaviors. I am still working on the thought issues, but I am improving. SarahMarie
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