![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jerrympls on March 23, 2002, at 1:40:04
Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
Seroquel - 400mg (night)
Desipramine - 200mg (night)
Ambien - 10mg night
Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
Jerry
Posted by JohnX2 on March 23, 2002, at 3:36:50
In reply to Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP!, posted by Jerrympls on March 23, 2002, at 1:40:04
Hi Jerry,What is your diagnosis and what does your doctor think of your situation?
Do you have these abrupt mood swings off the meds?
Are these swings related to the stimulant dosing, i.e. when you bounce dysphoric, do you take more stimulant to get jump started again, or do you get restarted naturally?
BTW, what do you recall what the Seroquel was prescribed for? This does have mood stabilizer properties and should counteract the dexedrine a bit to answer your question.
I saw on the other thread that the stim was prescribed for depression. Do you have any ADD symptoms, or did you and your pdoc run into friction finding stand alone antidepressant solutions for the depression?
Best Wishes
John
> Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
>
> Seroquel - 400mg (night)
> Desipramine - 200mg (night)
> Ambien - 10mg night
> Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
> SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.
>
> First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
>
> At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
>
> Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
>
> I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
>
> Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
>
> Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
>
> Jerry
Posted by Ritch on March 23, 2002, at 11:19:48
In reply to Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP!, posted by Jerrympls on March 23, 2002, at 1:40:04
> Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
>
> Seroquel - 400mg (night)
> Desipramine - 200mg (night)
> Ambien - 10mg night
> Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
> SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.
>
> First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
>
> At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
>
> Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
>
> I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
>
> Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
>
> Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
>
> Jerry
Hi Jerry,It doesn't really sound like "dysphoria" it sounds like *panic* to me. Why do you need to take so much Seroquel? Desipramine can be pretty *buzzy* too. Tricyclics in general can cause crawly skin and momentary adrenaline rushes. In what order were your meds started? Was it desipramine, then dexedrine, then you got anxiety and insomnia and they started piling on the Seroquel, Ambien, Ativan? The last time I was on a stimulant (Adderall), I had anx. problems and we kept adding on different things to quell it. One was Risperdal and then Seroquel. I had to go off the Adderall and go back on Klonopin. Maybe you need to back off your dexedrine *slowly* and see if you start feeling better (without getting depressed).
good luck,
Mitch
Posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 17:18:17
In reply to Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP!, posted by Jerrympls on March 23, 2002, at 1:40:04
Jerry,
Are you taking SUBLINGUAL bioactive B-12 (methylcobalamin) or just oral (down-the-hatch) B-12? If you are not taking your B-12 in a sublingual form, go to a nutritional store, buy some and give it a try ASAP. I know it sounds overly simplistic, but if it works you will be glad that you tried it and if it doesn't you did not lose much in trying.
Please post your results either way.
-- Ron
------------------------> Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
>
> Seroquel - 400mg (night)
> Desipramine - 200mg (night)
> Ambien - 10mg night
> Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
> SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.
>
> First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
>
> At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
>
> Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
>
> I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
>
> Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
>
> Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
>
> Jerry
Posted by geno on March 23, 2002, at 17:31:21
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP! » Jerrympls, posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 17:18:17
what is your definition of dysphoria. I call it the opposite of EUPHORIA. For instance, I do alot of ghb.. Instant EUPHORIA and HAPPINESS> When this drug wears off, i feel the rebound dopamine, excess, causing panic and dysphoria, like im not really me! so dysphoria and panic go together. It feels if that life isnt real, like depersonalization. Also has to do with the gaba systems. So if i were you, id back off on dopamine meds. Keep on gaba meds, and try a low dose off ssri instead of same. Then your well being should bee better. Less dopamine, more seratonin and gaba, result in better state of mind. in my case, excess dopamine make me feel like im gonna die or something is about to happen to me like a heart attack or stuff like that.
i believe dexadrine will produce more dopamine and desipramine esp at 200mg, has your adreneline and norepinephrine at a all time high.
geno
Posted by Jerrympls on March 24, 2002, at 1:39:52
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP! » Jerrympls, posted by Ritch on March 23, 2002, at 11:19:48
Mitch-
Thanks for your reply. Here's a order of events as far as my meds are concerned: Oh and my diagnosis is Major Depression with Generalized anxiety disorder.....
Started Desipramine 50mg - had bad akathasia - added Ativan. After a couple weeks I got up to 150mg Desipramine - akathasia would rebound if I stopped ativan. NO antidepssant effect yet from Desipramine. Decided to add 100mg Seroquel as an augmentation strategy and also for sleep and anxiety. Seroquel worked very well. Still had some anxiety and restlessness so went up to 200mg Seroquel and finally after a month landed at 400mg Seroquel. Works very well for sleep and anxiety--perhaps mood too but I'm unsure. Akathasia calmed down a bit...still need ativan daily. Other than the restlessness, I'm not sure the Desipramine is ativating because I take it all at night. Desipramine totally wiped out my sex dive almost completely. Motivation and energy very low and still felt very apathetic--flat--a bit weepy - so decided to ad Provigil 200mg. Helped for a couple days....but not very helpful for mood. Next on to Dexedrine. Works well.
So, the dysphoria I am describing is more of an intense sadness/dread than panic or ansiety. It's not as if my heart rate starts speeding up. It's like these brief waves of "everything is depressing and sad" kinda things.....am I making any sense? I don't feel anxiety is playing any part. There's no real pattern to it too. I did increase my SAM-e to 800mg today and I didn't have as many "dysphoria" moments. So...hmmm....
I do try to take a day or two off of Dexedrine to help my brain recharge. It helps a bit. But without it during the week I wouldn't have the energy/will/motivation to get out of bed or to care about anything. So....damned if i do, damned if I dont.......
I'm thinking of switching the Seroquel to Topamax - but the Seroquel is helping alot I think---except for making me so completey hungry. I'm not too fond of the Desipramine because it makes my hands shake alot and it's noticable to co-workers, etc....it also could be adding to the weight factor.
Just a quick note about the meds I have been on: Over the past 10 years (I'm 30 now) I have been on every SSRI at least twice, imipramine, ascendin, Pamelor, Trazodone, Parnate, Serzone, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Depakote, Lithium, Ritalin, Adderall, Cylert, Cytomel, a hand full of the benzos, Neurontin, Clonidine, Naltrexone (for SSRI augmentation)...and probably more I can't remember. I've also been through ECT (worst treatment mistake ever). And I currently have the VNS (Vegal Nerve Stimulator) implanted for almost 10 months (I can't comment yet on how well it is helping....I'm dyign to tell eveyone--but I must obey the study rules - have no fear--I will post everything here when they say I can....)
So, I dunno....>I'm always appreciative of everyone comments, suggestions, questions...thanks alot........
Jerry
> > Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
> >
> > Seroquel - 400mg (night)
> > Desipramine - 200mg (night)
> > Ambien - 10mg night
> > Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
> > SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.
> >
> > First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
> >
> > At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
> >
> > Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
> >
> > I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
> >
> > Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
> >
> > Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
> >
> > Jerry
>
>
> Hi Jerry,
>
> It doesn't really sound like "dysphoria" it sounds like *panic* to me. Why do you need to take so much Seroquel? Desipramine can be pretty *buzzy* too. Tricyclics in general can cause crawly skin and momentary adrenaline rushes. In what order were your meds started? Was it desipramine, then dexedrine, then you got anxiety and insomnia and they started piling on the Seroquel, Ambien, Ativan? The last time I was on a stimulant (Adderall), I had anx. problems and we kept adding on different things to quell it. One was Risperdal and then Seroquel. I had to go off the Adderall and go back on Klonopin. Maybe you need to back off your dexedrine *slowly* and see if you start feeling better (without getting depressed).
>
> good luck,
> Mitch
Posted by Jerrympls on March 24, 2002, at 4:19:59
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP! » Jerrympls, posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 17:18:17
Ron-- I take just a basic time-release B-complex vitamin. What's the deal with having to take the B-12 sublingually? Does it really help that much? Might jus tthe B-12 help w/ energy??? Thanks!
Jerry
> Jerry,
>
> Are you taking SUBLINGUAL bioactive B-12 (methylcobalamin) or just oral (down-the-hatch) B-12? If you are not taking your B-12 in a sublingual form, go to a nutritional store, buy some and give it a try ASAP. I know it sounds overly simplistic, but if it works you will be glad that you tried it and if it doesn't you did not lose much in trying.
>
> Please post your results either way.
>
> -- Ron
> ------------------------
>
> > Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
> >
> > Seroquel - 400mg (night)
> > Desipramine - 200mg (night)
> > Ambien - 10mg night
> > Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
> > SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.
> >
> > First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
> >
> > At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
> >
> > Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
> >
> > I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
> >
> > Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
> >
> > Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
> >
> > Jerry
Posted by Ritch on March 24, 2002, at 9:56:12
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HE, posted by Jerrympls on March 24, 2002, at 1:39:52
> Mitch-
>
> Thanks for your reply. Here's a order of events as far as my meds are concerned: Oh and my diagnosis is Major Depression with Generalized anxiety disorder.....
>
> Started Desipramine 50mg - had bad akathasia - added Ativan. After a couple weeks I got up to 150mg Desipramine - akathasia would rebound if I stopped ativan. NO antidepssant effect yet from Desipramine. Decided to add 100mg Seroquel as an augmentation strategy and also for sleep and anxiety. Seroquel worked very well. Still had some anxiety and restlessness so went up to 200mg Seroquel and finally after a month landed at 400mg Seroquel. Works very well for sleep and anxiety--perhaps mood too but I'm unsure. Akathasia calmed down a bit...still need ativan daily. Other than the restlessness, I'm not sure the Desipramine is ativating because I take it all at night. Desipramine totally wiped out my sex dive almost completely. Motivation and energy very low and still felt very apathetic--flat--a bit weepy - so decided to ad Provigil 200mg. Helped for a couple days....but not very helpful for mood. Next on to Dexedrine. Works well.
>
> So, the dysphoria I am describing is more of an intense sadness/dread than panic or ansiety. It's not as if my heart rate starts speeding up. It's like these brief waves of "everything is depressing and sad" kinda things.....am I making any sense? I don't feel anxiety is playing any part. There's no real pattern to it too. I did increase my SAM-e to 800mg today and I didn't have as many "dysphoria" moments. So...hmmm....
>
> I do try to take a day or two off of Dexedrine to help my brain recharge. It helps a bit. But without it during the week I wouldn't have the energy/will/motivation to get out of bed or to care about anything. So....damned if i do, damned if I dont.......
>
> I'm thinking of switching the Seroquel to Topamax - but the Seroquel is helping alot I think---except for making me so completey hungry. I'm not too fond of the Desipramine because it makes my hands shake alot and it's noticable to co-workers, etc....it also could be adding to the weight factor.
>
> Just a quick note about the meds I have been on: Over the past 10 years (I'm 30 now) I have been on every SSRI at least twice, imipramine, ascendin, Pamelor, Trazodone, Parnate, Serzone, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Depakote, Lithium, Ritalin, Adderall, Cylert, Cytomel, a hand full of the benzos, Neurontin, Clonidine, Naltrexone (for SSRI augmentation)...and probably more I can't remember. I've also been through ECT (worst treatment mistake ever). And I currently have the VNS (Vegal Nerve Stimulator) implanted for almost 10 months (I can't comment yet on how well it is helping....I'm dyign to tell eveyone--but I must obey the study rules - have no fear--I will post everything here when they say I can....)
>
> So, I dunno....>I'm always appreciative of everyone comments, suggestions, questions...thanks alot........
>
> Jerry
Hi Jerry,Thanks for replying. There are a few things you mention above that are interesting:
1) The desipramine caused akathisia
2) The Ativan helps the akathisia
3) Seroquel helps it a lot more.
4) Dexedrine "Works well"Whenever I tried desipramine it was just 10mg and I took it at bedtime. It also caused an "inner restlessness", although I didn't have a lot of motor hyperactivity. So desipramine is the only TCA you "responded" to? Do you think most of your improvement is from the dexedrine add-on? I wonder what would happen if you could leave in the dexedrine/Ativan/Seroquel and flip or cross-taper the desipramine to something less agitating. That stuff made me too uptight. I would get "freezing" like reactions around other people. That also happened with Wellbutrin and Adderall, but *not* with dexedrine. Another weird thing about Seroquel that I noticed.. It has a short half-life. You said you take all of it at nite? I only took it at bedtime, too. But..the next day about mid-afternoon into the evening the stuff would start wearing off and I would get this weirdo rebound antidepressant effect with super focus and alertness. Do you notice the hand tremor in the evenings the most? Sorry, for all the questions, I hope you get better,
Mitch
Posted by Ron Hill on March 24, 2002, at 13:51:59
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HE » Ron Hill, posted by Jerrympls on March 24, 2002, at 4:19:59
> Ron-- I take just a basic time-release B-complex vitamin. What's the deal with having to take the B-12 sublingually?
Most people do not effectively absorb B-12 when it is taken orally (down-the-hatch). Taking it sublingually (under the tongue) transfers the B-12 directly to the bloodstream, thereby, circumventing the low absorption associated with oral administration. Continue to take you B-complex, just add sublingual bioactive B-12 (methylcobalamin) to the vitamins you are currently taking.
>Does it really help that much? Might jus tthe B-12 help w/ energy???
Have you heard of people having much more energy and a better mood after going to the doctor to get a B-12 shot? While I am holding the B-12 under my tongue, I can literally feel a calming/focusing effect ocurring in my brain. Further, read the following article and then get in the car and go buy some sublingual bioactive B-12 (methylcobalamin). Do it now!
Your brainchemistry issues may require more fire power than SAM-e can bring to bear. Or, on the other hand, SAM-e may be just the ticket. Please post your dx and a list of your current meds so I can have a better idea if SAM-e would be expected to solve your problem.
Supercharged SAM-e: B Vitamins, Folate Increase the Supplement’s Effectiveness
by ImmuneSupport.com Staff12-01-1999 - Homocysteine is a sulfur-containing amino acid involved in several important methyl and sulfur transfer reactions, and is actually beneficial in small amounts. When homocysteine levels begin to rise in the body, excessive accumulation of homocysteine in the body fluid compartments is normally prevented by degradation through two enzymatic reactions called transsulfuration and remethylation. These two processes have to be functioning for homocysteine to be kept in control and for SAM-e to function in the body. Importantly, these same enzyme reactions cannot occur without proper levels of folate, vitamin B 6 (pyridoxal 5- phosphate), and vitamin B12 (cobalamin). If you take SAM-e to promote better health (lighter mood, comfortable joints and a detoxed liver), you also need adequate levels of B vitamins and folic acid to help the SAM-e do its job.
When the body has proper levels of folic acid, Vitamins B6 and B12, the enzymatic break-down of homocysteine occurs either through remethylation, which converts it into methionine, the SAM-e building block; or through transsulfuration, which turns it into glutathione, a powerful antioxidant.
But when those processes become sluggish, the homocysteine levels in the body begin to rise. Large homocysteine levels left unchecked in the body, become an invitation to disease, including heart attack, stroke, cancer, birth defects, depression and perhaps CFS and FM.
A published Swedish study showed results of which demonstrate consistently high homocysteine levels and low concentrations of vitamin B12 in the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) of patients meeting established clinical criteria for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia.
Those taking SAM-e should be aware that the healthy benefits they experience are not due to SAM-e alone. SAM-e may be the “team leader” however, folic acid, vitamin B6 and vitamin B12 are crucial members of the team that contribute to its success. It is only by incorporating the entire team that one can achieve the victory of better health and well-being.
Source:
Evarts, Jeremy Lucius. “New Study Links Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome to Low Vitamin B12 and High Homocysteine in Cerebrospinal Fluid.” Healthwatch, August 1998.
Cowley, Geoffrey and Underwood, Anne. "What is SAMe?" Newsweek, July 5, 1999.
Brown, Richard, M.D., Bottigileri, Teodoro, Ph.D., Colman, Carol. Stop Depression Now. New York, 1999.
http://www.arthritissupport.com/track/goto/rtgoto30l.cfm
-- Ron
----------------------------------------------
Posted by Ron Hill on March 24, 2002, at 14:17:08
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HE » Jerrympls, posted by Ron Hill on March 24, 2002, at 13:51:59
Jerry,
I looked at your meds and dx briefly. I'll look in more detail when I have more time. My first impression is that SAM-e may have a very good effect for you. Just get the sublingual B-12 thing fixed.
SAM-e did an excellent job on my anergy (low drive, low motivation, low energy, etc.) and my anhedonia (no pleasure, blunted emotions, etc.). However, if I take too much, I get "overstimulated" and start to pick up a little dysphoric hypomania.
-- Ron
Posted by Jerrympls on March 24, 2002, at 21:47:56
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HELP! » Jerrympls, posted by Ron Hill on March 23, 2002, at 17:18:17
RON-
I looked all over for the specific sublingual form of B-12 and I only found the cyanocobalamin form. What's the difference between the two? I got the cyan... B-12 just to try it. how much does one take each day? Along with SAM-e I assume?? Thanks!
Jerry
P.S. What might I feel if B-12 "works" for me?
> Jerry,
>
> Are you taking SUBLINGUAL bioactive B-12 (methylcobalamin) or just oral (down-the-hatch) B-12? If you are not taking your B-12 in a sublingual form, go to a nutritional store, buy some and give it a try ASAP. I know it sounds overly simplistic, but if it works you will be glad that you tried it and if it doesn't you did not lose much in trying.
>
> Please post your results either way.
>
> -- Ron
> ------------------------
>
> > Just in case you haven't read any of my recent posts, I"ll give you the low-down:
> >
> > Seroquel - 400mg (night)
> > Desipramine - 200mg (night)
> > Ambien - 10mg night
> > Ativan - 1mg daily as needed
> > SAM-e 400mg/day w/ B complex vit.
> >
> > First--DYSPHORIA! Ugh....I have these very strong but brief periods of dysphoria: stomach suddenly sinks and intense feeling of dread. These last a second or so scattered throughout the day. I can find no correlation to dosing times, etc. This dysphoria really scares me because I will be felling ok then all the sudden everything is terrible, dread overflows my thoughts, the bottom completely falls out......then I'm back to feeling ok again. WHAT IS THIS AND WHY!? I could be sitting with my friends laughing and out of the BLUE my stomach will drop, an overwhelming sense of dread will wipe over me and throw me through a dysphoric "wave" that lasts a couple seconds....but that's 2 seconds too long for me.
> >
> > At first I thought it had to do with Dexedrine not working to it's full potential - so I started SAM-e to see if it could help reverse the dysphoria lapses. I was up to 1600mg/day for a couple days (this stuff as everyone knows is terrible expensive) but I could take 20 SAM-e pills and feel nothing. I take it on an empty stomach with a B-complex vit. Right now I am only taking 400mg - but still nothing at all. I
> >
> > Long ramble longer, I need to hear from anyone - someone - about working with supplements like SAM-e to help with stimulant poop-out and the dreaded dysphoria.
> >
> > I know my dopamine system is probably running on low - but what can i do to replensih? If I tell my doc all this will he laugh me out of the office?
> >
> > Anyone? Elizabeth? JOhnX? Anyone? Anyone at all? Perhaps my med combo could be playing a part--for ex: would Seroquel reduce the effectiveness of Dexedrine? I'm already weary of the whole things with acidity and metabolism of dexedrine - but I have been drinking a lot of Diet Cherry Cokes too. I'm sure that stuff isn't good for me either.
> >
> > Ok I'll stop. Anyone? Please...I'm so frustrated and just need some help here...please.....thanks
> >
> > Jerry
Posted by Ron Hill on March 24, 2002, at 23:36:38
In reply to Re: Dexedrine Dysphoria - SAME-e to the rescue? HE » Ron Hill, posted by Jerrympls on March 24, 2002, at 21:47:56
> I looked all over for the specific sublingual form of B-12 and I only found the cyanocobalamin form. What's the difference between the two?
Jerry,
As I understand it, methylcobalamin is more bioactive (works better in the body) than the other forms of B-12. However, the sublingual B-12 that you bought will be fine for now. If you desire, you can order the more bioactive form via the internet. Just do a search for methylcobalamin.
>I got the cyan... B-12 just to try it. how much does one take each day?
I take a 1000 mcg sublingual B-12 tablet two times a day, but that's just me. Maybe you could start with 1000 mcg/day.
>Along with SAM-e I assume??
No, that's incorrect. Take your vitamins with a meal (or snack), but take SAM-e on empty stomach.
Here is the SAM-e dosing schedule that seems to work best for me:1. Get up in the morning and eat a good healthy breakfast within thirty minutes of rising.
2. Immediately after breakfast, take oral (down-the-hatch) vitamins followed by sublingual (under the tongue) B-12.
3. Wait for at least 30 minutes or an hour, and then take a 200 mg tablet of SAM-e (or take higher dose if needed). This wait time is important because SAM-e is adsorbed in the small intestines more effectively if there is not food present to compete for absorption. IMHO, I think it is important to have the B vitamins in the body ready and waiting for the SAM-e dose. I also think it is VERY IMPORTANT to take the B-12 in a bioactive sublingual form.
4. About mid-afternoon, at least an hour after lunch and at least an hour before dinner, take your second dose of SAM-e.
> P.S. What might I feel if B-12 "works" for me?
Normal: Energetic, level headed , normal.
This is the end of the thread.
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