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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 15:28:02
I'm a vegan, so soy products (tofu) are a large part of my diet, and a big source of protein. I am starting on an MAOI (Parnate, for atypical depression) and have found much - but often conflicting - information about soy products. Does anyone have experience? Especially with tofu? Or with different brands of soy sauce?
I've read the Shulman article's abstract (J Clin Psyciatry 1999;50:191-193) and a post that soy sauce was OK for one person (apparently even from the assays different brands of soy sauce have different tyramine levels).
My understanding is that the tyramine is usually a product of fermentation or decay) so I understand why soy sauce would be a problem, but what about tofu?
Posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 16:02:18
In reply to Any experiences with soy products and MAOI?, posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 15:28:02
From everything I've read & heard, tyramine levels in tofu are pretty low but levels of tyramine rise quite high in tofu if it's stored in the fridge for as little as one week.
"Fine" someone will think - "I'll eat it right away" but still... I know that tofu is stored in refridgerated sections in a grocery store for quite a while (just look at the 'best before' date on it), so that gives me an idea that the levels may already be high.
I honestly don't see how the levels rise so fast though.
Posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 16:58:20
In reply to Re: Any experiences with soy products and MAOI? » curious, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 16:02:18
> From everything I've read & heard, tyramine levels in tofu are pretty low but levels of tyramine rise quite high in tofu if it's stored in the fridge for as little as one week.
>
> "Fine" someone will think - "I'll eat it right away" but still... I know that tofu is stored in refridgerated sections in a grocery store for quite a while (just look at the 'best before' date on it), so that gives me an idea that the levels may already be high.
>
> I honestly don't see how the levels rise so fast though.Yeah, until I read the article (not just the abstract), I won't really know, I suppose. Tofu is rarely actually "fresh" - you'd have to go to Chinatown. Or maybe they saw the increase in the fridge in a week from an _opened_ package of tofu. Most tofu in stores is in a sealed container and may have been sitting in the refrigerated section for who knows how long! I usually cook an entire package, so none is left in the fridge after opening.
I'm really hoping for peoples' experiences with soy.
Posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 17:37:46
In reply to Re: Any experiences with soy products and MAOI?, posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 16:58:20
Just a little extra. When I was married, my husband was taking an MAO inhibitor & I was still able to include soy flour in all my bread making & other baking with no problems. But as you stated, it's something to do with the fermentation process. Perhaps looking into the making of tofu would give you an idea of how much it is fermented.
Posted by susan C on February 13, 2002, at 18:42:17
In reply to Re: Any experiences with soy products and MAOI? » curious, posted by IsoM on February 13, 2002, at 17:37:46
Hi,
From my rabid vegetarian days, when, yes, i actually did, make from scratch tofu, it is lemon juice or similar, that I used to curdle the soya milk. It is then pressed.
There is nothing, nothing like real, made fresh that day tofu.
omnivor-mouse
Posted by christophrejmc on February 13, 2002, at 19:20:05
In reply to Any experiences with soy products and MAOI?, posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 15:28:02
I've had no problems with tofu while taking Parnate or Nardil. Soy milk is also safe.
I've had a lot of soya sauce as well, but this is probably a bit risky.I think tofu is probably safe within about one week after opening (by which time it starts getting a little nasty anyway). You should probably change the water every day.
As always, it's best to try a small amount at first, just to make sure it's not a problem.
-Christophre
> I'm a vegan, so soy products (tofu) are a large part of my diet, and a big source of protein. I am starting on an MAOI (Parnate, for atypical depression) and have found much - but often conflicting - information about soy products. Does anyone have experience? Especially with tofu? Or with different brands of soy sauce?
>
> I've read the Shulman article's abstract (J Clin Psyciatry 1999;50:191-193) and a post that soy sauce was OK for one person (apparently even from the assays different brands of soy sauce have different tyramine levels).
>
> My understanding is that the tyramine is usually a product of fermentation or decay) so I understand why soy sauce would be a problem, but what about tofu?
Posted by Seamus2 on February 13, 2002, at 23:28:52
In reply to Any experiences with soy products and MAOI?, posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 15:28:02
Miso is fermented soy -- I'd steer clear of it if you're on an MAOI.
Posted by Elizabeth on February 14, 2002, at 2:28:36
In reply to Any experiences with soy products and MAOI?, posted by curious on February 13, 2002, at 15:28:02
Never tried tofu, but I used soy sauce regularly when taking MAOIs and didn't have any problems (I checked my blood pressure the first few times to make sure). Protein-containing foods are variably susceptible to degradation leading to production of tyramine (from the tyrosine in the proteins). With some, it depends quite a lot on the freshness, as IsoM points out. Liver is one food that is theoretically safe when fresh, but in practice it appears to become unsafe (via contamination) very easily -- lots of people seem to have reactions to liver.
I put soy products in the "exercise caution" category. If I were in your position, I would try eating a bit of tofu and checking my blood pressure, then increasing the amount of tofu gradually (continuing to check BP). Remember that one trial isn't enough; even with "dangerous" foods, you sometimes won't have a reaction, but that doesn't mean that you can count on being able to eat them any time.
Reactions to miso soup have been reported.
HTH
-elizabeth
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