![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 36 to 60 of 60. Go back in thread:
Posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 17:29:05
In reply to Thanks for topic Spike!, posted by Mags on January 15, 2002, at 8:06:59
> Thanks Spike for letting us spout about how we FEEL. Great topic!
>
> Although not the most uplifting subject it is really nice to see how many of us feel similar.
> I attend group therapy and they all come from abusive childhoods, bad marriages, death's etc.
>
> I always feel a little guilty when I listen to them. How could I be depressed when I have nothing situational to do it to me. Their stories are horrific and yet I FEEL the same as them.
>
> It is nice to be validated by what I have read in these last few post.As some of you have said, others that don't understand look at you and think why doesn;t she snap out of it!!
>
> Thanks all, you have helped mucho!
> plus the med advise is great also.....
> MagsHey Mags,
This post had been the best ever for me. I finally have met others with severe depression not convoluted with other issues such as abuse, etc. I guess some of us just got smacked hard with the depression genes.
I too would like to thank everyone who has posted .... finally alittle vindication ..... alittle reassurance .....
We should start a support group .... the normal childhood/adolescent depression group
Spike
Posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 17:36:11
In reply to Re: augmentation..... » spike4848, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 13:34:35
> I'd take the SSRI alone for a short while to make sure you can tolerate it & to see how well it works. Then, if necessary (& it probably will be), I'd augment it with a TCA that's worked well for you in the past.
>
> After that's stable & you find a combo that helps (it doesn't have to help 100%), I'd top it with Provigil (or adrafinil). It's used in Europe as an AD too, not just for memory & alertness. After all, the type of drugs they belong to are called eugeroics or good arousal.I think that is exactly what I am going to do .... hey when I treat high blood pressure, I use one or two potent medication and sometimes top it off with a third .... why not do the same with depression. Hit it hard with medication that have different modes of actions ..... I really like the celexa with possibly pamelor or desipramine combo ..... thank isom .... and thank for sticking with me when I did respond to your first post ask my medication history. I was kind of embarrassed to have been on so many medication without sucess .....
I will keep you updated!
Spike
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 17:50:44
In reply to Re: Family History of Depression » IsoM, posted by bob on January 15, 2002, at 14:48:46
Bob, I agree with you but...
If anyone has studied even a little on genetics & how characteristics are passed on from one generation to another & ALL the extra possibilities of genetic drift, crossing over & gene recombination, & whether characteristics are sex-linked or not, will know how convulated it can get. New characteristics can pop up all the time that wasn't even part of the genetic make-up of previous generations.
I think if we were to try & eliminate the bad traits by these people not reproducing (which I'm NOT suggesting you said), we'd lose so many of our geniuses. Lord Tennyson had a strong history of bipolar distorder in running in his family. Just doing a search on Google for creative, highly intelligent people would show many with disorders & depression.
I'm not saying that creative genius is linked with depression, just that along with the 'bad' genes are many that are very, very good. At this point, I think we have to accept the bad with the good, unfortunately.
Altruism is one of our best characteristics. No social animal can grow without this quality. Maybe if we were like Tasmanian devils, weasels, or shrews we wouldn't need it but then civilisation would never have developed. :)
>
> > Sometimes I think we're unconsciously drawn to marry others similar to us with problems, accentuating it for the next generations.
>
> Unfortunately for humans, it seems as though despite this possibly being genetic "vulnerabilities", it often (or even mostly) isn't serious enough to stop the afflicted individual from reproducing. Thus, it has been perpetuated throughout time. Even if the condition eventually incapacitates the person, often by that time the children have been born, and human altruism takes over: other members of family or society take care of them. Pure, unadulterated evolutionism without altruism would surely have eliminated these genotypes by now. Then again, altruism is a product of natural selection also.
Posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 17:59:34
In reply to Re: augmentation..... » IsoM, posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 17:36:11
Great, Spike! I *know* you know this, but be patient. Do realise you're going to get discouraged & say "this crap isn't doing a damn thing for me!" & just go with the flow. Don't feel guilty about feeling discouraged during this period of finding something that works. Realise that it's perfectly normal to be discouraged & want to give up. Feel it - just don't give in & give up.
Just keep telling yourself that there's others rooting for you that have and/or are going through the same thing. And you're strong for tackling it & not giving up. Then, one day you'll look up & say "hey, the sun does shine after all!"
I think the person who finds a good AD or even a good combo first time off is very, VERY rare. Most of us who are functional or feel good have gotten that way after a long search.
>
> > I'd take the SSRI alone for a short while to make sure you can tolerate it & to see how well it works. Then, if necessary (& it probably will be), I'd augment it with a TCA that's worked well for you in the past.
> >
> > After that's stable & you find a combo that helps (it doesn't have to help 100%), I'd top it with Provigil (or adrafinil). It's used in Europe as an AD too, not just for memory & alertness. After all, the type of drugs they belong to are called eugeroics or good arousal.
>
> I think that is exactly what I am going to do .... hey when I treat high blood pressure, I use one or two potent medication and sometimes top it off with a third .... why not do the same with depression. Hit it hard with medication that have different modes of actions ..... I really like the celexa with possibly pamelor or desipramine combo ..... thank isom .... and thank for sticking with me when I did respond to your first post ask my medication history. I was kind of embarrassed to have been on so many medication without sucess .....
>
> I will keep you updated!
>
> Spike
Posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 19:20:22
In reply to Re: Augmentation.and Persistance » spike4848, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 17:59:34
This is the first time I have posted and I can relate to an awful lot (unfortunately!). I am a recovering addict (15+years), have been on various anti-depressants for the past 10 years or so currently taking efxr & prozac and considering ritalin augmentation. I have been wondering if any others are recovering, and also I wonder if there is such a thing as an addict recovering or not recovering, that doesn't suffer from depression? I guess I think that addiction is just a form of self-medicating the depression but unfortunately, the resulting addiction brings with it its own set of problems. Just curious because I don't recall seeing anyone mention recovery?
> Great, Spike! I *know* you know this, but be patient. Do realise you're going to get discouraged & say "this crap isn't doing a damn thing for me!" & just go with the flow. Don't feel guilty about feeling discouraged during this period of finding something that works. Realise that it's perfectly normal to be discouraged & want to give up. Feel it - just don't give in & give up.
>
> Just keep telling yourself that there's others rooting for you that have and/or are going through the same thing. And you're strong for tackling it & not giving up. Then, one day you'll look up & say "hey, the sun does shine after all!"
>
> I think the person who finds a good AD or even a good combo first time off is very, VERY rare. Most of us who are functional or feel good have gotten that way after a long search.
>
> >
> > > I'd take the SSRI alone for a short while to make sure you can tolerate it & to see how well it works. Then, if necessary (& it probably will be), I'd augment it with a TCA that's worked well for you in the past.
> > >
> > > After that's stable & you find a combo that helps (it doesn't have to help 100%), I'd top it with Provigil (or adrafinil). It's used in Europe as an AD too, not just for memory & alertness. After all, the type of drugs they belong to are called eugeroics or good arousal.
> >
> > I think that is exactly what I am going to do .... hey when I treat high blood pressure, I use one or two potent medication and sometimes top it off with a third .... why not do the same with depression. Hit it hard with medication that have different modes of actions ..... I really like the celexa with possibly pamelor or desipramine combo ..... thank isom .... and thank for sticking with me when I did respond to your first post ask my medication history. I was kind of embarrassed to have been on so many medication without sucess .....
> >
> > I will keep you updated!
> >
> > Spike
Posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:40:26
In reply to augmentation persistence, posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 19:20:22
That's because people who recover have better things to do than writing on this board I suppose. People come here for support, sharing experiences and looking for info before seeing a doc, etc... So I guess those who are well don't need it anymore.
> This is the first time I have posted and I can relate to an awful lot (unfortunately!). I am a recovering addict (15+years), have been on various anti-depressants for the past 10 years or so currently taking efxr & prozac and considering ritalin augmentation. I have been wondering if any others are recovering, and also I wonder if there is such a thing as an addict recovering or not recovering, that doesn't suffer from depression? I guess I think that addiction is just a form of self-medicating the depression but unfortunately, the resulting addiction brings with it its own set of problems. Just curious because I don't recall seeing anyone mention recovery?
>
>
> > Great, Spike! I *know* you know this, but be patient. Do realise you're going to get discouraged & say "this crap isn't doing a damn thing for me!" & just go with the flow. Don't feel guilty about feeling discouraged during this period of finding something that works. Realise that it's perfectly normal to be discouraged & want to give up. Feel it - just don't give in & give up.
> >
> > Just keep telling yourself that there's others rooting for you that have and/or are going through the same thing. And you're strong for tackling it & not giving up. Then, one day you'll look up & say "hey, the sun does shine after all!"
> >
> > I think the person who finds a good AD or even a good combo first time off is very, VERY rare. Most of us who are functional or feel good have gotten that way after a long search.
> >
> > >
> > > > I'd take the SSRI alone for a short while to make sure you can tolerate it & to see how well it works. Then, if necessary (& it probably will be), I'd augment it with a TCA that's worked well for you in the past.
> > > >
> > > > After that's stable & you find a combo that helps (it doesn't have to help 100%), I'd top it with Provigil (or adrafinil). It's used in Europe as an AD too, not just for memory & alertness. After all, the type of drugs they belong to are called eugeroics or good arousal.
> > >
> > > I think that is exactly what I am going to do .... hey when I treat high blood pressure, I use one or two potent medication and sometimes top it off with a third .... why not do the same with depression. Hit it hard with medication that have different modes of actions ..... I really like the celexa with possibly pamelor or desipramine combo ..... thank isom .... and thank for sticking with me when I did respond to your first post ask my medication history. I was kind of embarrassed to have been on so many medication without sucess .....
> > >
> > > I will keep you updated!
> > >
> > > Spike
Posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 20:21:38
In reply to Re: augmentation persistence » fuji, posted by sid on January 15, 2002, at 19:40:26
I guess I don't have anything better to do or I am not very well or if I am real lucky I have nothing better to do and I am not well...
> That's because people who recover have better things to do than writing on this board I suppose. People come here for support, sharing experiences and looking for info before seeing a doc, etc... So I guess those who are well don't need it anymore.
>
> > This is the first time I have posted and I can relate to an awful lot (unfortunately!). I am a recovering addict (15+years), have been on various anti-depressants for the past 10 years or so currently taking efxr & prozac and considering ritalin augmentation. I have been wondering if any others are recovering, and also I wonder if there is such a thing as an addict recovering or not recovering, that doesn't suffer from depression? I guess I think that addiction is just a form of self-medicating the depression but unfortunately, the resulting addiction brings with it its own set of problems. Just curious because I don't recall seeing anyone mention recovery?
> >
> >
> > > Great, Spike! I *know* you know this, but be patient. Do realise you're going to get discouraged & say "this crap isn't doing a damn thing for me!" & just go with the flow. Don't feel guilty about feeling discouraged during this period of finding something that works. Realise that it's perfectly normal to be discouraged & want to give up. Feel it - just don't give in & give up.
> > >
> > > Just keep telling yourself that there's others rooting for you that have and/or are going through the same thing. And you're strong for tackling it & not giving up. Then, one day you'll look up & say "hey, the sun does shine after all!"
> > >
> > > I think the person who finds a good AD or even a good combo first time off is very, VERY rare. Most of us who are functional or feel good have gotten that way after a long search.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > I'd take the SSRI alone for a short while to make sure you can tolerate it & to see how well it works. Then, if necessary (& it probably will be), I'd augment it with a TCA that's worked well for you in the past.
> > > > >
> > > > > After that's stable & you find a combo that helps (it doesn't have to help 100%), I'd top it with Provigil (or adrafinil). It's used in Europe as an AD too, not just for memory & alertness. After all, the type of drugs they belong to are called eugeroics or good arousal.
> > > >
> > > > I think that is exactly what I am going to do .... hey when I treat high blood pressure, I use one or two potent medication and sometimes top it off with a third .... why not do the same with depression. Hit it hard with medication that have different modes of actions ..... I really like the celexa with possibly pamelor or desipramine combo ..... thank isom .... and thank for sticking with me when I did respond to your first post ask my medication history. I was kind of embarrassed to have been on so many medication without sucess .....
> > > >
> > > > I will keep you updated!
> > > >
> > > > Spike
Posted by nightlight on January 15, 2002, at 22:50:48
In reply to How does this happen? It sneaks up!, posted by cmcdougall on January 15, 2002, at 10:31:28
Hi Carly~Yeah, there's 'history' in my background as well, tho I knew little about it, or didn't put the 'pieces' together until I realized I had my own little nameplate waiting for me on the 'wee bit *teched* (read: nutty, deranged, Eccentric or downright psychotic) branch of our family tree.
I had 'known' s/t was wrong w/me since my teens, but I figured I was just lazy, damaged, warped or in some way, simply, cursed. Then my dad (my all-time favorite person-smart, funny, so kind) had a breakdown about 12 yrs. ago. How cd. this most brilliant and wonderful person suddenly (but, not really suddenly) lose their mind?
Depression, anxiety disorder, PTSD, etc.It was all there. Then hospital, shrinks, drugs (the wrong ones) and then several rounds of ECT. Very bad idea-his own father died (heart attack) during an ECT treatment in 1946. [I know, ECT is different now, but the possible emotional/psychological damage this treatment could've (and did) have on my dad was unpredictable and immeasurable]. He did recover, slowly, was still one terrific man, but never the same *mind* again. And, lord, did he rue that loss. He was quite well-read and had had an amazing memory for details. He had permanent memory damage, raging fear of docs, and was never sufficiently medicated. He had been abruptly withdrawn from 15 yrs. on low-dose valium prior to his 'breakdown'. He never took another benzo-the docs made him feel that his med had made him nuts-and limped along bravely for another 12 years, enduring anxiety attacks, dep, panic, etc. w/only the help of 25 mgs.of desipramine, 10 mgs. thioridizine and, for his 'nerves', an occasional Vistaril (hydroxyzine, which I believe he thought was prob'ly addictive, until I told him it was an antihistamine, for god's sake, take 2 please!).
One yr. after his illness became apparent, I divorced (amicably) and moved back to my hometown. I swore I'd be by my parents' sides from then on, in order to help them make sense of any medical crises I could. I had to learn a lot. I lived with them off and on for 10 yrs. as heart bypasses, cancers, colostomy and Alzheimer's took their various tolls on this sweet couple (50 yrs. married) as they aged. Daddy died in 2000 at age 74, Mother 14 months later in April 2001. She was 71. But, I digress...I loved them so much. And I sure do miss them, but not their suffering.
So, 12 yrs. ago, I started to think about whether I might really be 'ill', and not just a weak, powerless, hurting individual. Bingo...I was finally on the right road-tho it has taken me that many yrs. to find a decent p-doc and hope for a true remission sometime soon. I have a husband and a 5 yr old. We all deserve my wellness, if it's a possibility.
Sorry for the ramble-guess I'm feeling emotional tonight.
nightlight
ps-ur depression symptoms are like a carbon-copy of mine! And, trying to 'hide it' all the while. Jeez...thr backtracking damage control I have before me is immensely daunting-but, at least I'm awake most of the day.
> There is a history of depression and bi-polar in my family going back several generations. I know because I started asking the "old folks" at a recent family reunion. They just didn't call it mental illness. They called is eccentricity, laziness, irresponsibility, or insanity. I was amazed at the stories I heard about my great-grandmother, great-uncle, etc. My mother and brother also both have depression.
>
> My depression sneaks up on me and I don't realize it until I truly crash. This most recent crash started last year when DH sued his ex-wife over visitation issues having to do w/ his children. I became obsessed w/ family law and father's rights issues. I slowly quit taking care of my business, paying bills, etc. I hid all this from my husband because I didn't want him to think I was lazy (or whatever). For some reason, the idea that my AD (EffexorXr 150mg/2xday) was pooping out never entered my head. The fact that I tried to hide all the symptoms kept friends and family from noticing anything until it was too late. I recall my DH and friends questioning if I felt OK, and I kept assuring them I was fine.
>
> The downhill slide progressed until I was:
>
> * going to bed at 7:30 each night
> * waking up at 3AM only to fall back asleep at 4:30AM and sleep till 10AM
> * napping several hours each day
> * staying home from work
> * not bathing, getting dressed or putting on makeup
> * eating all day
> * not answering the phone
> * not paying ANY bills or filing important state and federal reports
> * not doing any household tasks
> * ending up in psych ward after suicide threat
>
> I could go on, but most of you can fill in the blanks...
>
> Since November I've been on a med combo of desipramine, celexa, adderal and trazodone. This seems to be doing the trick for me right now. I pray it lasts...
>
> Carly
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 15, 2002, at 23:05:51
In reply to Re: Not sure what to do next ..... » IsoM, posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 7:41:28
I wonder if the key isn't just any good AD with the addition of Lithium? I've heard that lithium helps get more AD into the cells. Maybe if you found the AD you liked most based on side effects and then added in the old LICO3 that might do the trick.. Just a thought
Scott
Posted by bob on January 16, 2002, at 0:02:32
In reply to Re: Thanks for topic Spike! » Mags, posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 17:29:05
> Hey Mags,
>
> This post had been the best ever for me. I finally have met others with severe depression not convoluted with other issues such as abuse, etc. I guess some of us just got smacked hard with the depression genes.
>
> I too would like to thank everyone who has posted .... finally alittle vindication ..... alittle reassurance .....
>
> We should start a support group .... the normal childhood/adolescent depression group
>
> Spike
I would also like to be a member of that group. I had a fantastic childhood, and a reasonable adolesence.
Posted by bob on January 16, 2002, at 0:13:05
In reply to Re: Genetics of Depression » bob, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 17:50:44
> Bob, I agree with you but...
>
> If anyone has studied even a little on genetics & how characteristics are passed on from one generation to another & ALL the extra possibilities of genetic drift, crossing over & gene recombination, & whether characteristics are sex-linked or not, will know how convulated it can get. New characteristics can pop up all the time that wasn't even part of the genetic make-up of previous generations.
>
> I think if we were to try & eliminate the bad traits by these people not reproducing (which I'm NOT suggesting you said), we'd lose so many of our geniuses. Lord Tennyson had a strong history of bipolar distorder in running in his family. Just doing a search on Google for creative, highly intelligent people would show many with disorders & depression.
>
> I'm not saying that creative genius is linked with depression, just that along with the 'bad' genes are many that are very, very good. At this point, I think we have to accept the bad with the good, unfortunately.
>
> Altruism is one of our best characteristics. No social animal can grow without this quality. Maybe if we were like Tasmanian devils, weasels, or shrews we wouldn't need it but then civilisation would never have developed. :)
>
>
I think most would rather be happy, than creative every now and again. There must be some creative people out there that weren't mentally ill. As you say, we have to accept the bad with the good for now, because we have no other choice.Your right, I didn't suggest we eliminate bad traits by not reproducing. I was just referring to an article on genetics which actually was linked on this board. It suggested that these afflictions were due to pathogens , and not genetics, because if it had been otherwise, the incidence of the diseases would have reduced down to random genetic mutation level since even a less than one percent reduction in reproduction rate will reduce the occurrence of a gene in the population. I was just mentioning how I wasn't sure that mental illness reduces offspring all that much, if at all compared to the rest of the population.
I also didn't meant to suggest that altruism was a bad thing... on the whole it has been instrumental in passing our genes on to the next generation.
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 2:21:05
In reply to Re: Genetics of Depression » IsoM, posted by bob on January 16, 2002, at 0:13:05
Have to agree with everything you said, Bob. So many composers, artists, & writers suffered from depression. Dvorak, one of my favourite composers had a happily married family life & was deeply religious too. He suffered from no known problems & he did wonderful compositions, so there's one argument to say normalcy can go hand-in-hand with creative genius!
I read those reports about the Borna virus & its pssible links to depression. Came across it years ago in a science article. I'd like to see more studies done on it as I find it rather intriguing. I do believe there's probably many different reasons for depression all working together to make our generation one of the worse afflicted in history.
Mark me as another member of the reasonably normal childhood - depression group. :)
> >
> >
> I think most would rather be happy, than creative every now and again. There must be some creative people out there that weren't mentally ill. As you say, we have to accept the bad with the good for now, because we have no other choice.
>
> Your right, I didn't suggest we eliminate bad traits by not reproducing. I was just referring to an article on genetics which actually was linked on this board. It suggested that these afflictions were due to pathogens , and not genetics, because if it had been otherwise, the incidence of the diseases would have reduced down to random genetic mutation level since even a less than one percent reduction in reproduction rate will reduce the occurrence of a gene in the population. I was just mentioning how I wasn't sure that mental illness reduces offspring all that much, if at all compared to the rest of the population.
>
> I also didn't meant to suggest that altruism was a bad thing... on the whole it has been instrumental in passing our genes on to the next generation.
Posted by ST on January 16, 2002, at 3:42:06
In reply to Re: How depressed are YOU? » ST, posted by spike4848 on January 15, 2002, at 7:45:27
Spike,
Yes, Depakote is a "mood stabilizer". I'm bipolar. It's worked great for me!
Sarah
> > So that's what happens to me. Luckily my depression has been kept in check with a cocktail of sorts:
> > Depakote, 500 mg.,
> > Wellbutrin 300 mg.
> > and now Effexor SR 225mg.
> > Before Effexor I was on Celexa, which was great, except that I gained weight. That's not always so for everyone, however.
> > I've always wondered, as well, if I suffer more than the next depressed person out there.
> > Good luck,
> > Sarah
>
> Hey Sarah,
>
> Thanks for the advice ..... May I ask what the depakote is for ... bipolar ... anxiety. I was considering depakote at low dose with my history of panic attacks.
>
> Thanks
>
> Spike
Posted by ST on January 16, 2002, at 3:45:55
In reply to Re: How depressed are YOU? » ST, posted by bob on January 15, 2002, at 14:33:36
Yeah, it's taken me a long time to feel OK that I have to take medicine all my life. But now that I see that SO MANY people have some sort of problem that is being helped with meds I don't feel as resentful.
> I too have feelings of anger towards those who seem to be healthy and happy when I'm really down. It's a vicious cycle. I also have feelings of anger sometimes that most people don't need medecine to survive.
Posted by sid on January 16, 2002, at 7:32:46
In reply to Re: augmentation persistence » sid, posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 20:21:38
Welcome to the club! And let's hope we're not here for life!
> I guess I don't have anything better to do or I am not very well or if I am real lucky I have nothing better to do and I am not well...
>
> > That's because people who recover have better things to do than writing on this board I suppose. People come here for support, sharing experiences and looking for info before seeing a doc, etc... So I guess those who are well don't need it anymore.
Posted by dee on January 16, 2002, at 8:50:33
In reply to How depressed are YOU?, posted by spike4848 on January 14, 2002, at 19:29:53
Spike I know how you feel, just wanted to let you know. My life has been out of control for years.I can't pinpoint when It started but I have been in denial. I have gotten to the point where I hide my mistakes so others can't find out what I did, because I seem to forget and mess up everything.
A cupple years ago I had my second son, and during the whole pregancy I was depressed, I can not remember being pregant or his whole first year at home. It is like a blur, this confuses my family they think it is a lie. But I dont understand my self, this is why I am working toward getting answers or at least changing my life around. Do you know what the last straw was for me? I was driving down the road and could not remember the past 5 miles or so, if I stopped at stop signs or anything(Scarry). But also having such a deep depression final hit me full blow, and thinking I cant face it to make it right. How stupid, I have two wonderful sons and a good life. So here I am taking meds and seeing a phyc. some people think I am crazy but I just know I need to get better.
Posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 12:42:11
In reply to Re: How depressed are YOU? » spike4848, posted by dee on January 16, 2002, at 8:50:33
For all those who wish they didn't have to take pills every day for the rest of their lives (& that included me), here's a little message.
I got to know a surgeon from South Africa who came to North America to do additional studies. I'd have him & his wife over for supper & visit. He found it amazing that I could remember to take my meds every day. He said he found a lot of resistance in people against be "enslaved" to daily medication.
I've also heard from some good friends who are very well-meaning but uninformed about medications. I take it upon myself to educate them in a friendly, positive way. I ask them if they need to drink fluids every day, or eat or sleep every day? Of course, they say. I tell them the body can't supply its own food or drink, we need to get it from an outside source. It's the same for some people with medication. The bodies of some people need an outside source to prompt their brain to make the right neurotransmitters. No one thinks it strange that a diabetic has to take daily insulin shots, so why not help other major organs like the brain?
I say there's no more stigma in having to take medication each & every day as there is in having to eat, drink, & sleep each & every day. If someone argues that meds aren't "natural", I just ask them how much foods are natural nowadays. I do think I'm making a small difference because I've really been surprised at the number of friends & sometimes just acquaintances who've come to me asking about psychotropic meds or telling me how they're on them & how much it's helped.
Hope I don't sound pompous by this comment. I just want people to feel positive about needing medication. So few of us do sound positive. I think it's mostly when we can't find the right combo for us that we come across negative. I know I do.
Posted by sid on January 16, 2002, at 14:01:56
In reply to Re: Necessity of Meds, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 12:42:11
I agree. I'm happy for those who can stop the meds after recovery, and I hope I'll be one of them. Otherwise, I will choose a good life, with meds forever if that's what I need.
We are lucky that something can be done for these ailments; not long ago, our lives would have been pretty much lost.
> For all those who wish they didn't have to take pills every day for the rest of their lives (& that included me), here's a little message.
>
> I got to know a surgeon from South Africa who came to North America to do additional studies. I'd have him & his wife over for supper & visit. He found it amazing that I could remember to take my meds every day. He said he found a lot of resistance in people against be "enslaved" to daily medication.
>
> I've also heard from some good friends who are very well-meaning but uninformed about medications. I take it upon myself to educate them in a friendly, positive way. I ask them if they need to drink fluids every day, or eat or sleep every day? Of course, they say. I tell them the body can't supply its own food or drink, we need to get it from an outside source. It's the same for some people with medication. The bodies of some people need an outside source to prompt their brain to make the right neurotransmitters. No one thinks it strange that a diabetic has to take daily insulin shots, so why not help other major organs like the brain?
>
> I say there's no more stigma in having to take medication each & every day as there is in having to eat, drink, & sleep each & every day. If someone argues that meds aren't "natural", I just ask them how much foods are natural nowadays. I do think I'm making a small difference because I've really been surprised at the number of friends & sometimes just acquaintances who've come to me asking about psychotropic meds or telling me how they're on them & how much it's helped.
>
> Hope I don't sound pompous by this comment. I just want people to feel positive about needing medication. So few of us do sound positive. I think it's mostly when we can't find the right combo for us that we come across negative. I know I do.
Posted by spike4848 on January 16, 2002, at 19:55:59
In reply to Re: Augmentation.and Persistance » spike4848, posted by IsoM on January 15, 2002, at 17:59:34
> Great, Spike! I *know* you know this, but be patient. Do realise you're going to get discouraged & say "this crap isn't doing a damn thing for me!" & just go with the flow. Don't feel guilty about feeling discouraged during this period of finding something that works. Realise that it's perfectly normal to be discouraged & want to give up. Feel it - just don't give in & give up.
>
> Just keep telling yourself that there's others rooting for you that have and/or are going through the same thing. And you're strong for tackling it & not giving up. Then, one day you'll look up & say "hey, the sun does shine after all!"
>
> I think the person who finds a good AD or even a good combo first time off is very, VERY rare. Most of us who are functional or feel good have gotten that way after a long search.IsoM,
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. You don't know how much this means to me ... no matter what happens ... I know there are people out there supporting me .....
Thank you!
Spike
Posted by jane d on January 17, 2002, at 3:46:37
In reply to Re: augmentation persistence » sid, posted by fuji on January 15, 2002, at 20:21:38
fuji - I got the impression you meant "recovery from addiction" rather than depression. There are other posters going through the same thing. If you check the archives (or just continue reading) you will find many, some of whom seem to have been quite successful dealing with addiction. Of course, if they are posting here they probably have not yet been so successful at beating depression so this won't answer your question of whether depression is inevitable. - jane
> I guess I don't have anything better to do or I am not very well or if I am real lucky I have nothing better to do and I am not well...
>
> > That's because people who recover have better things to do than writing on this board I suppose. People come here for support, sharing experiences and looking for info before seeing a doc, etc... So I guess those who are well don't need it anymore.
> >
> > > This is the first time I have posted and I can relate to an awful lot (unfortunately!). I am a recovering addict (15+years), have been on various anti-depressants for the past 10 years or so currently taking efxr & prozac and considering ritalin augmentation. I have been wondering if any others are recovering, and also I wonder if there is such a thing as an addict recovering or not recovering, that doesn't suffer from depression? I guess I think that addiction is just a form of self-medicating the depression but unfortunately, the resulting addiction brings with it its own set of problems. Just curious because I don't recall seeing anyone mention recovery?
Posted by jane d on January 17, 2002, at 3:57:29
In reply to Re: Necessity of Meds, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 12:42:11
Thanks for posting that. I've never felt "enslaved" by the meds myself perhaps because I felt enslaved by the disease for so long before I ever tried them. But each day when I take the meds I do resent the disease itself. When they're working I resent what it has done to me in the past. When they're not I resent what it's doing to me now. It's as though, when I hold them in my hand each morning, they trigger an unwelcome moment of reflection. Even as I am grateful for the meds themselves I am still angry about the need for them, angry about the years I did without them, and of course, very frightened that they might someday stop working.
Perhaps that is what other people are talking about after all.
Posted by Krazy Kat on January 17, 2002, at 9:58:36
In reply to Re: Necessity of Meds, posted by IsoM on January 16, 2002, at 12:42:11
IsoM:
Your comments re: the necessity of meds are so "well put". It's difficult to feel dependant on something for the rest of your life.
- KK
Posted by bob on January 17, 2002, at 12:53:09
In reply to Re: Necessity of Meds » IsoM, posted by Krazy Kat on January 17, 2002, at 9:58:36
If I ever found a combination that truly put me in a place where I could say that I am as well as before I got sick, with no side effects, and I didn't have to worry about the treatment not working... then I would not resent this disease nearly so much. It's the inability to get adequate and/or dependable relief from it that is so hard to deal with.
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 17, 2002, at 14:55:50
In reply to How depressed are YOU?, posted by spike4848 on January 14, 2002, at 19:29:53
I've been having some VERY bad days lately. Utterly despairing, bleak, inconsolable, a big push to get out of bed. Once I do, I wander around feeling like I'm wading through swampy polluted waters and tend to not get much done. Plus my body hurts, I'm tired and don't think clearly. My poor husband is a patient and compassionate guy, but I can't allow myself to drag him down into this morass he can't comprehend. It's beginning to affect him and then I feel doubly guilty on top of it all.
My psychic antenna is tuned into all the pain, suffering and horror in the world. Yesterday, all I could do was pray for patience until the worst of this passes. But in the meantime, life doesn't stop and there are bills and such things that are piling up, no jobs on the horizon, and the hole gets dug deeper and deeper (and no, my husband can't take care of these issues - he has his own brand of malfunction).
Part of this is due to my decision to come off my AD meds, none of which (nor augmentation )were working but were ruining my physical health. Really, I've tried 'em all and they don't last. (That's not to say I'm off them forever, just a chance to clear out all the junk and start up with a new regimen in the near future). The only relief is Klonopin which allows me to zone out and survive a soul agony that no one should have to go through. This is pretty grim and thank God I'm not involved in a high-stress job anymore (I'm trying for SSI benefits).
I keep reminding myself that I'M SICK and it's the depression talking when I'm lost in darkness, but I get to wondering about hauntings and evil and other spooky things, cause my brand of the pits is very very horrific, dark and hopeless. No chance of suicide for me. For good or worse, my take on that is that it's not an escape and I'd end up in the same horror in another lifetime. I can only pray that my brain will seek to heal itself (with the help of my Inner Presence, whom I've come to rely on more and more).
There really is ultimately no one but myself to turn to anymore and that's pretty scary, but today at least there is hope that I'll find my way through. My Pdoc (and others before him) is fishing around and coming up with nothing that works or is available in this country, and I've come to the decision to find my own recipe (all of your input has been invaluable). I'm ordering some drugs from overseas that I have a feeling will help (adrafinil is one), I'll combine it with my maintenance dose of Remeron and report back. But this sucks, it really does. -- Barbara
> Sometimes I read other posts are feel like I am cursed with depression plus. Off nardil ....
>
> I sleep 16 hours a day
> Feel like I have 100 lbs weights on my feet
> Can't taste food
> Have no sense of smell
> Can't drag myself out of my apartment
> Can't drag myself to eat
> Don't answer the phone
> Can't smile
> Never see my friends
>
> Basically sit in bed and obsess about how terrible I feel
>
> I see other's who say there depressed say things like, I cry alot (.... I wish I could feel anything, even sadness) or can't have difficulties at work or have problem with anger.
>
> Do you guy here feel more like me ... dead to the world, or like the people I described above .... sad and angry.
>
> Spike
Posted by bob on January 17, 2002, at 20:27:54
In reply to Re: How depressed are YOU - pretty dang awful!, posted by BarbaraCat on January 17, 2002, at 14:55:50
Barbara:
I could not believe how much your post rang true for me. Your description of your condition is much like mine.
1 - I don't want to drag my family down into my hole. They are compassionate, but I can tell they have trouble dealing with it.
2 - I'm out on disablility now, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to my demanding job.
3 - Some of the ADs were helping a little, but at an eventual extreme cost to my physical health and ability to function. You are one of the few people I've seen post who mentioned the ADs "ruining" their physical health. It is exactly the same for me.
4 - I too have decided to come off meds. I haven't gotten off yet, but I'm getting close, and some of the days are very difficult. Many of the health issues have resolved themselves. I will most likely crash hard though, mentally.
5 - You said that ultimately all you have to turn to is yourself. I think that unless you have a REALLY understanding and dedicated person in your life, you are in a pretty common situation. I could possibly go live with my parents, but I think they'd be emotionally crushed to see me like this. It usually eventually comes down to just yourself.
6 - I really don't know where to turn in the way of meds anymore. They mess me up so much. I know what you mean by your last statement, "This sucks, it really does."
7 - Please hang in there. Nothing ever stays the same.
This is the end of the thread.
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