![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 8, 2002, at 17:13:19
Please excuse this long post, but if I give detailed info, perhaps some of you out there can provide clues/sleuthing to help me with what is becoming a descent into despair. I have a long history of treatment resistant depression with bouts of panic disorder. I also have fibromyalgia. I have been on every SSRI and it's permutations out there as well as Wellbutrin augmenting. I'm currently on Remeron 45 mg. with 100 mg lithium (lithium was added a week ago for augmenting). For 2 months, 30 mg. of Remeron was doing it. I have not felt so good for so long, just plain old normal and enjoying life in a healthy, productive manner. I felt good, motivated, and very validated in my theory that depression is ultimately biochemical - just provide my brain with what it needs and I can take care of the rest of life just splendidly.
Then, at the beginning of Dec, it began pooping out. I could feel the mucle pains returning, then the emotional pain and I've been descending into a horrible depression, pain and fatigue spiral. So my pdoc upped Remeron to 45 mg. with the 100 mg lithium. Just the teensiest response. My depression is always accompanied by aching muscular pain (fibromyalgia), feeling of intense fear, crying, brain won't make connections. In the past I tried disipramine, but don't recall that it helped and hated the side effects. I'm also taking thyroid T4 and T3 for hypothyroidism, good estrogen/progesterone hormones, and leading a very healthy lifestyle complete with meditation and good nutrition. I hate to keep upping my meds because NOTHING has continued to work. Something is missing in the chemical equation.
Severe melancholy depression, pain, fatigue with forays into panic. Any ideas out there? Another trial with TCA's? Dopamine augmentation? Thank you for any and all suggestions. I feel like the Thermian's plea in Galaxy Quest "You're my laaast hope!".
Posted by CalvaryHill on January 9, 2002, at 1:26:20
In reply to Need your help! - another treatment failure, posted by BarbaraCat on January 8, 2002, at 17:13:19
Nortriptyline (a metabolite of amitriptyline) is a better drug overall for the prophylaxis of pain _and_ for anxiety--this is supported by the Psychopharmacology Tips. And nortriptyline has a benign side-effect profile that is comparable to desipramine.
Once you complete a trial with a TCA then the fatigue should dissipate because of norepinephrine dominance.
Your emotional lability concerns me, and your mood-stabilizer dose of Lithium is severely inadequate. I would suggest a trial with Divalproex to smooth out the cycles and also add an antidepressant effect.
Take Care,
CalvaryHill
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 9, 2002, at 13:13:48
In reply to Desipramine and pain » BarbaraCat, posted by CalvaryHill on January 9, 2002, at 1:26:20
Thank you for taking the time to respond - I am touched and grateful. I am actually going to slowly wean myself off all pharmaceutical medications over the next few months, with massive nutritional, emotional and spiritual support. I have the time to do this and will approach it in an intelligent manner with the support of good friends and husband.
My emotional lability concerns me as well, as I have not been thinking clearly and am easily pulled into dark and terrifying places from which escape is difficult, and extremely wearing to my body and soul. I think the crapshoot of wrong meds have been toxic to my system and I want to clean out. Perhaps I'll reach a steady state and won't require meds for at least a breather period, perhaps I'll learn invaluable lessons in the process, perhaps I'll have to return to biochemical help. My intention is to at least clear out the chemical burdens that are exacerbating an increasingly delicate state of physical health. Your meds suggestion will be what I insist upon from my pdoc as it makes sense. Will keep you all posted as to my progress -- I know coming off of over 20 years of Russion roulette dosing will be no walk in the park, and so ask for your good wishes/prayers, as you all indeed have mine.
> Nortriptyline (a metabolite of amitriptyline) is a better drug overall for the prophylaxis of pain _and_ for anxiety--this is supported by the Psychopharmacology Tips. And nortriptyline has a benign side-effect profile that is comparable to desipramine.
>
> Once you complete a trial with a TCA then the fatigue should dissipate because of norepinephrine dominance.
>
> Your emotional lability concerns me, and your mood-stabilizer dose of Lithium is severely inadequate. I would suggest a trial with Divalproex to smooth out the cycles and also add an antidepressant effect.
>
> Take Care,
> CalvaryHill
Posted by IsoM on January 9, 2002, at 14:37:46
In reply to Need your help! - another treatment failure, posted by BarbaraCat on January 8, 2002, at 17:13:19
Barbara, I won't even begin to suggest what may or may not work for you. I can only offer you some of my experiences. Remember, what works for one, doesn't necessarily for another.
I've been on ADs for < 15 years now, & three separate times, I've tried to wean myself off all meds. Each time, I needed to concede failure & go back on them. After these three shots, I've decided to not fool around anymore.
I managed a health food store years ago, & live a healthy, active lifestyle, eat very sensibly, & take any necessary vitamin/mineral supplements. I try to use moderation in all things. But diet, exercise, & a solid network of friends & family is just not enough for me. It has a strong genetic pattern & has been passed to my three sons too.
Now for my "advice":
I've tried a fair amount of TCAs & everyone worked fairly good EXCEPT for disipramine. I went off TCAs because of constipation & a too rapid heart rate. Various SSRIs were tried & now I'm on Celexa (my choice). I also needed a little Synthoid due to an underactive thyroid.I have a mixture(?) of ADHD, narcolepsy, & migraines as well as depression - again all genetic, runs in the family through a few generations. The one medication that I've added recently that has done wonders for me is adrafinil. I refuse to push it on others though. It may not have the same effect for others as me, but for me it truly is my wonder drug. It's helped my depression, motivation, constant sleepiness & yawning, ADHD, memory, & serves to calm me too. In doing what research I could on it, I came across a pictures of the brain activated on stims (Dexedrine & Ritalin) & that on adrafinil. While some of the same parts of the brain that showed increased metabolic activity on stims was lit on adrafinil too, there was much more activity in the brain all over on adrafinil. It increased brain metabolism overall. I also found it interesting the mention of one person's attempt to commit suicide on adrafinil recorded him taking 57X the maximum recommended dose, only to be awake & jittery for a few days before he returned to normal, no damage done.
I do have fibromyalgia too. Seem to have had it all my life as I remember waking up at night with 'growing pains', crying with the pain & crawling into bed with my Mom. She'd rub & warm my skinny little legs & arms. The pains never really went away & when I was in my thirties, they came back full force. I'm not sure whether the adrafinil helps the pain or if it just makes me feel better & I'm not so aware of it. I haven't been on it long enough to really judge. I'd not venture an opinion till at least 6 months have passed. As you know, flare-ups can come & go.
Anyways, this is a long post, but wanted to explain everything to you. I hope going off all meds works for you. Of course, see first if it works well for you. If not, & you wonder what you can do, remember this post. Good luck & do let us know how things progress!
********************************************************************************************
> Please excuse this long post, but if I give detailed info, perhaps some of you out there can provide clues/sleuthing to help me with what is becoming a descent into despair. I have a long history of treatment resistant depression with bouts of panic disorder. I also have fibromyalgia. I have been on every SSRI and it's permutations out there as well as Wellbutrin augmenting. I'm currently on Remeron 45 mg. with 100 mg lithium (lithium was added a week ago for augmenting). For 2 months, 30 mg. of Remeron was doing it. I have not felt so good for so long, just plain old normal and enjoying life in a healthy, productive manner. I felt good, motivated, and very validated in my theory that depression is ultimately biochemical - just provide my brain with what it needs and I can take care of the rest of life just splendidly.
>
> Then, at the beginning of Dec, it began pooping out. I could feel the mucle pains returning, then the emotional pain and I've been descending into a horrible depression, pain and fatigue spiral. So my pdoc upped Remeron to 45 mg. with the 100 mg lithium. Just the teensiest response. My depression is always accompanied by aching muscular pain (fibromyalgia), feeling of intense fear, crying, brain won't make connections. In the past I tried disipramine, but don't recall that it helped and hated the side effects. I'm also taking thyroid T4 and T3 for hypothyroidism, good estrogen/progesterone hormones, and leading a very healthy lifestyle complete with meditation and good nutrition. I hate to keep upping my meds because NOTHING has continued to work. Something is missing in the chemical equation.
>
> Severe melancholy depression, pain, fatigue with forays into panic. Any ideas out there? Another trial with TCA's? Dopamine augmentation? Thank you for any and all suggestions. I feel like the Thermian's plea in Galaxy Quest "You're my laaast hope!".
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 9, 2002, at 19:23:45
In reply to Re: Need your help! - another treatment failure » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on January 9, 2002, at 14:37:46
Hmmm, I heard of adrafinil a few years ago as a nootropic and was very interested in it. It definitely sounds like worth a try. Can you tell me where you got it? In other words, is it a US prescription or one that you got via overseas mail order? Question: how would it affect a tendency to careen into anxiety when stressed (there are MANY MANY in my life right now)and a past history of panic disorder (not been a problem for last 2 years)? I would plan to use it with a reduced dose of Remeron. Remeron has worked wonders (when it worked), but my intuition is telling me that the norepinephine pathway this drug affects is what I need. I will also continue Ambien for sleep (not even Remeron will knock me out).
One of the most frustrating effects of this illness is how it robs me of the energy/motivation/ability to maintain my life and creativity. The circuits don't connect, I start planning my life but can't maintain any enthusiasm, get sick and end up dropping out altogether. It's this never being able to follow through or honor commitments or predict my future health that keeps me in despair of ever getting better. I will present this to my pdoc, but am determined to go ahead with it no matter what his take may be. He has not been able to offer anything that's working. In fact, many of the 'smart drugs' show much promise. Another reason to be proactive in our own health. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
> Barbara, I won't even begin to suggest what may or may not work for you. I can only offer you some of my experiences. Remember, what works for one, doesn't necessarily for another.
>
> I've been on ADs for < 15 years now, & three separate times, I've tried to wean myself off all meds. Each time, I needed to concede failure & go back on them. After these three shots, I've decided to not fool around anymore.
>
> I managed a health food store years ago, & live a healthy, active lifestyle, eat very sensibly, & take any necessary vitamin/mineral supplements. I try to use moderation in all things. But diet, exercise, & a solid network of friends & family is just not enough for me. It has a strong genetic pattern & has been passed to my three sons too.
>
> Now for my "advice":
> I've tried a fair amount of TCAs & everyone worked fairly good EXCEPT for disipramine. I went off TCAs because of constipation & a too rapid heart rate. Various SSRIs were tried & now I'm on Celexa (my choice). I also needed a little Synthoid due to an underactive thyroid.
>
> I have a mixture(?) of ADHD, narcolepsy, & migraines as well as depression - again all genetic, runs in the family through a few generations. The one medication that I've added recently that has done wonders for me is adrafinil. I refuse to push it on others though. It may not have the same effect for others as me, but for me it truly is my wonder drug. It's helped my depression, motivation, constant sleepiness & yawning, ADHD, memory, & serves to calm me too. In doing what research I could on it, I came across a pictures of the brain activated on stims (Dexedrine & Ritalin) & that on adrafinil. While some of the same parts of the brain that showed increased metabolic activity on stims was lit on adrafinil too, there was much more activity in the brain all over on adrafinil. It increased brain metabolism overall. I also found it interesting the mention of one person's attempt to commit suicide on adrafinil recorded him taking 57X the maximum recommended dose, only to be awake & jittery for a few days before he returned to normal, no damage done.
>
> I do have fibromyalgia too. Seem to have had it all my life as I remember waking up at night with 'growing pains', crying with the pain & crawling into bed with my Mom. She'd rub & warm my skinny little legs & arms. The pains never really went away & when I was in my thirties, they came back full force. I'm not sure whether the adrafinil helps the pain or if it just makes me feel better & I'm not so aware of it. I haven't been on it long enough to really judge. I'd not venture an opinion till at least 6 months have passed. As you know, flare-ups can come & go.
>
> Anyways, this is a long post, but wanted to explain everything to you. I hope going off all meds works for you. Of course, see first if it works well for you. If not, & you wonder what you can do, remember this post. Good luck & do let us know how things progress!
>
> ********************************************************************************************
>
> > Please excuse this long post, but if I give detailed info, perhaps some of you out there can provide clues/sleuthing to help me with what is becoming a descent into despair. I have a long history of treatment resistant depression with bouts of panic disorder. I also have fibromyalgia. I have been on every SSRI and it's permutations out there as well as Wellbutrin augmenting. I'm currently on Remeron 45 mg. with 100 mg lithium (lithium was added a week ago for augmenting). For 2 months, 30 mg. of Remeron was doing it. I have not felt so good for so long, just plain old normal and enjoying life in a healthy, productive manner. I felt good, motivated, and very validated in my theory that depression is ultimately biochemical - just provide my brain with what it needs and I can take care of the rest of life just splendidly.
> >
> > Then, at the beginning of Dec, it began pooping out. I could feel the mucle pains returning, then the emotional pain and I've been descending into a horrible depression, pain and fatigue spiral. So my pdoc upped Remeron to 45 mg. with the 100 mg lithium. Just the teensiest response. My depression is always accompanied by aching muscular pain (fibromyalgia), feeling of intense fear, crying, brain won't make connections. In the past I tried disipramine, but don't recall that it helped and hated the side effects. I'm also taking thyroid T4 and T3 for hypothyroidism, good estrogen/progesterone hormones, and leading a very healthy lifestyle complete with meditation and good nutrition. I hate to keep upping my meds because NOTHING has continued to work. Something is missing in the chemical equation.
> >
> > Severe melancholy depression, pain, fatigue with forays into panic. Any ideas out there? Another trial with TCA's? Dopamine augmentation? Thank you for any and all suggestions. I feel like the Thermian's plea in Galaxy Quest "You're my laaast hope!".
Posted by IsoM on January 10, 2002, at 1:05:56
In reply to Adrafranil, huh? » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on January 9, 2002, at 19:23:45
I honestly can't say how adrafinil would affect your anxiety. It probably depends on the reason you feel anxiety. I'm sure it's like a headache - not the actual disease but just a symptom of something else. My anxiety might stem from an entirely different brain chemistry than yours.
I don't feel flat on ADs as many say they do. I can feel real joys & ecstasy (the feeling, not the streetdrug) but I feel so up & down. Not bipolar at all but my moods can swing so often & so quickly. I don't get angry but feel bleak & focusless (if there's such a word). I'll have great ideas & projects to do (real ones that can be accomplished normally) but few things come to fruition. I don't have any staying power which really bothers me. I need constant stimulation to maintain my enthusiasm whether from other people or whatever. But I can't seem to maintain things simply on their own. I feel like some mad butterfly flitting from one flower to another.
I didn't even realise at first that the adrafinil was changing anything like that. It's subtle & gentle. I just started finishing what I started. I noticed at the end of a day, I'd actually have something to show for all my mad rushes of energy. And I accomplished it without running around like a chicken with its head cut off like I normally do. People normally think I'm so psyched out & hyper when I do anything but a few friends started to comment that I seemed so much calmer & relaxed.
Anyway, I order my adrafinil from overseas - a British company. I checked around & most sites offer about the same prices. I'm sure they're still making a good profit from it but at least it's not expensive like modafinil (Provigil).
I normally need to take 2 Gravol about 1 1/2 - 2 hours before bed to start calming & slowing me down so I can sleep. The last week I was on adrafinil, I stopped taking the Gravol to see if I could fall asleep & I did. Took a little longer than normal, but when I did sleep, I slept much better. Once I even slept the whole night through. This is honestly the only time I ever remember doing that.
****************************************************************************************************
> Hmmm, I heard of adrafinil a few years ago as a nootropic and was very interested in it. It definitely sounds like worth a try. Can you tell me where you got it? In other words, is it a US prescription or one that you got via overseas mail order? Question: how would it affect a tendency to careen into anxiety when stressed (there are MANY MANY in my life right now)and a past history of panic disorder (not been a problem for last 2 years)? I would plan to use it with a reduced dose of Remeron. Remeron has worked wonders (when it worked), but my intuition is telling me that the norepinephine pathway this drug affects is what I need. I will also continue Ambien for sleep (not even Remeron will knock me out).
>
> One of the most frustrating effects of this illness is how it robs me of the energy/motivation/ability to maintain my life and creativity. The circuits don't connect, I start planning my life but can't maintain any enthusiasm, get sick and end up dropping out altogether. It's this never being able to follow through or honor commitments or predict my future health that keeps me in despair of ever getting better. I will present this to my pdoc, but am determined to go ahead with it no matter what his take may be. He has not been able to offer anything that's working. In fact, many of the 'smart drugs' show much promise. Another reason to be proactive in our own health. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 10, 2002, at 14:26:12
In reply to Re: Adrafranil, huh? » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on January 10, 2002, at 1:05:56
Your 'flitting butterfly' symptoms and unfinished projects experiences sound like they've got my name on them - how I can relate. In my spells, I cycle from vegetative melancholy to panic with shades of ADHD. It's a neurological hereditary illness that comes on of it's own accord but is made much worse and maintained by stress and worry. The anxiety stems from the very real possibility of not surviving in this world if this terrible illness is not managed (it hits me out of the blue). I was in a high stress high tech analyst job which I can no longer do and it's hard to get a leg up when I'm currently unemployed (as is my husband) and I keep cycling from just plain ol' normal health and enthusiasm to paralyzing physical pain, depression and fear/panic. If I can stay in the moment (an ongoing spiritual practice) it's manageable, but it's too easy to get pulled into panic when taxes, bills, and house stuff don't get done and more life stress piles up, etc., etc., and I'm just too sick to deal with them. I feel like if I can just maintain a lasting inner spark, a good even clean energy and a sense of optimism, then I can handle things, I can plan, I can make my way, create and build a good and fulfilling life. I can't do any of these things when I never know when I'm going to be literally laid flat. So I'm going to give adrafinil a try. In the meantime I'm taking extra amino acid L-Tyrosine which seems to be helping. Thanks for your help.
> I honestly can't say how adrafinil would affect your anxiety. It probably depends on the reason you feel anxiety. I'm sure it's like a headache - not the actual disease but just a symptom of something else. My anxiety might stem from an entirely different brain chemistry than yours.
>
> I don't feel flat on ADs as many say they do. I can feel real joys & ecstasy (the feeling, not the streetdrug) but I feel so up & down. Not bipolar at all but my moods can swing so often & so quickly. I don't get angry but feel bleak & focusless (if there's such a word). I'll have great ideas & projects to do (real ones that can be accomplished normally) but few things come to fruition. I don't have any staying power which really bothers me. I need constant stimulation to maintain my enthusiasm whether from other people or whatever. But I can't seem to maintain things simply on their own. I feel like some mad butterfly flitting from one flower to another.
>
> I didn't even realise at first that the adrafinil was changing anything like that. It's subtle & gentle. I just started finishing what I started. I noticed at the end of a day, I'd actually have something to show for all my mad rushes of energy. And I accomplished it without running around like a chicken with its head cut off like I normally do. People normally think I'm so psyched out & hyper when I do anything but a few friends started to comment that I seemed so much calmer & relaxed.
>
> Anyway, I order my adrafinil from overseas - a British company. I checked around & most sites offer about the same prices. I'm sure they're still making a good profit from it but at least it's not expensive like modafinil (Provigil).
>
> I normally need to take 2 Gravol about 1 1/2 - 2 hours before bed to start calming & slowing me down so I can sleep. The last week I was on adrafinil, I stopped taking the Gravol to see if I could fall asleep & I did. Took a little longer than normal, but when I did sleep, I slept much better. Once I even slept the whole night through. This is honestly the only time I ever remember doing that.
>
> ****************************************************************************************************
>
>
> > Hmmm, I heard of adrafinil a few years ago as a nootropic and was very interested in it. It definitely sounds like worth a try. Can you tell me where you got it? In other words, is it a US prescription or one that you got via overseas mail order? Question: how would it affect a tendency to careen into anxiety when stressed (there are MANY MANY in my life right now)and a past history of panic disorder (not been a problem for last 2 years)? I would plan to use it with a reduced dose of Remeron. Remeron has worked wonders (when it worked), but my intuition is telling me that the norepinephine pathway this drug affects is what I need. I will also continue Ambien for sleep (not even Remeron will knock me out).
> >
> > One of the most frustrating effects of this illness is how it robs me of the energy/motivation/ability to maintain my life and creativity. The circuits don't connect, I start planning my life but can't maintain any enthusiasm, get sick and end up dropping out altogether. It's this never being able to follow through or honor commitments or predict my future health that keeps me in despair of ever getting better. I will present this to my pdoc, but am determined to go ahead with it no matter what his take may be. He has not been able to offer anything that's working. In fact, many of the 'smart drugs' show much promise. Another reason to be proactive in our own health. Thanks to all for your suggestions.
Posted by IsoM on January 10, 2002, at 15:01:36
In reply to Re: Adrafranil, huh? » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on January 10, 2002, at 14:26:12
Barbara, please keep us posted on how the adrafinil affects you. A couple of success stories isn't enough for me to make a fair evaluation of this drug for others. The more people who give it a proper trial & then post their results, the more I can decide whether to recommend it for others. My success may not be everyone's.
Do be aware that you won't see immediate results & be disappointed. Taking more initially isn't a good idea either. Like turning up the thermostat to 80ºF won't warm the house to the desired 70ºF any faster. It took a full week before I noticed anything & even then it was a very subtle difference, wasn't even sure it was the med & not just a normal mood change. I think a full 4-5 weeks are needed to really judge the results.
Please keep us posted - bade and/or good effects.
**************************************************************************************************
> Your 'flitting butterfly' symptoms and unfinished projects experiences sound like they've got my name on them - how I can relate. In my spells, I cycle from vegetative melancholy to panic with shades of ADHD. It's a neurological hereditary illness that comes on of it's own accord but is made much worse and maintained by stress and worry. The anxiety stems from the very real possibility of not surviving in this world if this terrible illness is not managed (it hits me out of the blue). I was in a high stress high tech analyst job which I can no longer do and it's hard to get a leg up when I'm currently unemployed (as is my husband) and I keep cycling from just plain ol' normal health and enthusiasm to paralyzing physical pain, depression and fear/panic. If I can stay in the moment (an ongoing spiritual practice) it's manageable, but it's too easy to get pulled into panic when taxes, bills, and house stuff don't get done and more life stress piles up, etc., etc., and I'm just too sick to deal with them. I feel like if I can just maintain a lasting inner spark, a good even clean energy and a sense of optimism, then I can handle things, I can plan, I can make my way, create and build a good and fulfilling life. I can't do any of these things when I never know when I'm going to be literally laid flat. So I'm going to give adrafinil a try. In the meantime I'm taking extra amino acid L-Tyrosine which seems to be helping. Thanks for your help.
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 10, 2002, at 15:28:57
In reply to Re: Adrafranil, huh? » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on January 10, 2002, at 15:01:36
Will do. In the meantime, look into the L-Tyrosine and DL-Phenylalanine aminos. What I've been reading lately in the fibro literature is that if there is an immediate response to either, especially Tyrosine, there is a probable defect in the entire body's ability to metabolize NE.
> Barbara, please keep us posted on how the adrafinil affects you. A couple of success stories isn't enough for me to make a fair evaluation of this drug for others. The more people who give it a proper trial & then post their results, the more I can decide whether to recommend it for others. My success may not be everyone's.
>
> Do be aware that you won't see immediate results & be disappointed. Taking more initially isn't a good idea either. Like turning up the thermostat to 80ºF won't warm the house to the desired 70ºF any faster. It took a full week before I noticed anything & even then it was a very subtle difference, wasn't even sure it was the med & not just a normal mood change. I think a full 4-5 weeks are needed to really judge the results.
>
> Please keep us posted - bade and/or good effects.
>
> **************************************************************************************************
>
> > Your 'flitting butterfly' symptoms and unfinished projects experiences sound like they've got my name on them - how I can relate. In my spells, I cycle from vegetative melancholy to panic with shades of ADHD. It's a neurological hereditary illness that comes on of it's own accord but is made much worse and maintained by stress and worry. The anxiety stems from the very real possibility of not surviving in this world if this terrible illness is not managed (it hits me out of the blue). I was in a high stress high tech analyst job which I can no longer do and it's hard to get a leg up when I'm currently unemployed (as is my husband) and I keep cycling from just plain ol' normal health and enthusiasm to paralyzing physical pain, depression and fear/panic. If I can stay in the moment (an ongoing spiritual practice) it's manageable, but it's too easy to get pulled into panic when taxes, bills, and house stuff don't get done and more life stress piles up, etc., etc., and I'm just too sick to deal with them. I feel like if I can just maintain a lasting inner spark, a good even clean energy and a sense of optimism, then I can handle things, I can plan, I can make my way, create and build a good and fulfilling life. I can't do any of these things when I never know when I'm going to be literally laid flat. So I'm going to give adrafinil a try. In the meantime I'm taking extra amino acid L-Tyrosine which seems to be helping. Thanks for your help.
Posted by manowar on January 13, 2002, at 1:50:54
In reply to Re: Adrafranil, huh? » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on January 10, 2002, at 1:05:56
IsoM,
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer some of my questions about these drugs. I haven't felt this fine in years! I just hope it continues!!!
BTW: With insurance the Provigil is actually cheaper for me than the Adrafinil from Europe. The Provigil seems to be more activating for me than the Adrafinil. But both seem to have given me by far, the best AD effect, without any side effects at all! They also give me the added benefits of laser like concentration, motivation, vigilance, and wit. I feel like a new person!VIVA LE FRANCE!!!
"What will society make of a compound such as Modafinil that is more like caffeine than amphetamine in terms of safety, and yet as effective as the amphetamines?" Lyons TJ, French J "Modafinil the unique properties of a new stimulant" USAF School of Aerospace, Science News 1991, 62 423-435
I would strongly recommend anyone to try Modafinil, if you have the type of depression where you sleep too much with little motivation. It really works!
--Tim
Posted by spike4848 on January 13, 2002, at 3:20:08
In reply to Provigil/Modafinil/Adrafinil Rules! » IsoM, posted by manowar on January 13, 2002, at 1:50:54
> I would strongly recommend anyone to try Modafinil, if you have the type of depression where you sleep too much with little motivation. It really works!
>
> --TimHey Guys,
I am interested in Provigil ... does anyone know if people develope tolerance to Provigil over time. Some individuals using stimulants develope tolerance and need larger and larger doses for the same effect. Does this happen with Provigil?
Thanks
Spike
Posted by Mitch on January 13, 2002, at 15:16:55
In reply to Provigil after the initial kick ..., posted by spike4848 on January 13, 2002, at 3:20:08
> > I would strongly recommend anyone to try Modafinil, if you have the type of depression where you sleep too much with little motivation. It really works!
> >
> > --Tim
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am interested in Provigil ... does anyone know if people develope tolerance to Provigil over time. Some individuals using stimulants develope tolerance and need larger and larger doses for the same effect. Does this happen with Provigil?
>
> Thanks
>
> Spike
Also, it would be nice if anybody who is taking it would mention if they get any "reverse tolerance" and agitation with it. I think that is what happened to me with Adderall. It worked great, but I seemed to become more and more anxious and sensitive to it with time. Eventually, I had a couple of panic attacks and had to stop it.Mitch
Posted by Rakken on January 13, 2002, at 20:33:41
In reply to Provigil after the initial kick ..., posted by spike4848 on January 13, 2002, at 3:20:08
I heard that tolerance can develop to Provigil. But it usually only happens to people on high doses. High doses are over 400 mg a day.
Posted by IsoM on January 14, 2002, at 2:07:11
In reply to Provigil after the initial kick ..., posted by spike4848 on January 13, 2002, at 3:20:08
I really need to be on adrafinil (Olmifon®) for a longer period of time (6 months - 1 year) to be able to judge correctly but for me, the longer I'm on it, the better the effects became till it finally peaked & stayed on that level. Seeing that I'm purposely keeping my dose as low as necessary but still enough to be effective, maybe it'll never lose its stimulating effects. I hope so.
I must say though that the effects are quite different than stims are. Seeing that I have ADHD, on adrafinil I can be as hyper & perky as normally, but with a calmness I'd never experienced before. In the length of time in which I've taken adrafinil, it would've been long enough for me to already have noticed a tolerance to Dexedrine. I find no such tolerance at this point with adrafinil.
> > I would strongly recommend anyone to try Modafinil, if you have the type of depression where you sleep too much with little motivation. It really works!
> >
> > --Tim
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am interested in Provigil ... does anyone know if people develope tolerance to Provigil over time. Some individuals using stimulants develope tolerance and need larger and larger doses for the same effect. Does this happen with Provigil?
>
> Thanks
>
> Spike
This is the end of the thread.
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