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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Else on October 9, 2001, at 20:48:56
Now even my very conservative doc has agreed that it is "very likely" that I have ADD. Not likely enough that he would prescribe a controlled substance but I'll get to him next time, whatever it takes. I am on 3mg Klonopin daily now. This man had once said he would never prescribe benzos for me. My case is not desperate.
But things are falling apart. I can't hold a job. I can't do well enough during a ten week internship that they would pick me over a new employee for a part-time, week-end job which I need badly. They would rather train somebody else then keep me after ten weeks. I love that. I am THAT good.
Plus,today, some troll I had a crush on publicly humiliated me, saying I "talked like a machine" (?) that "the world didn't revolve around me" (duh) and that he didn't give a s**t what I had to say. Very nice.
I am not trying to draw attention to myself. This is a very wrong impression. When a idea pops into my mind I just have to say it. I'm like that. Is this ADD? Is this why people hate me or treat me like a buffoon? I was so hurt. This troll is friendly to everyone except me. Why do I still get picked on at 26 ? What the f**k is wrong with me? Why am I so objectionable for Christ's sake? Why do people hate me so much. Not everyone. But a lot of people either subtly disrespect or outright insult me and I don't know why? What am I doing wrong? I is me who is just plain wrong and defective? I need help badly. I can't take this anymore. I know I complain a lot a contribute very little. I have been preoccupied recently and have not had much time for PB. In any event, has anyone been through this? I took 6 x 30mg Serax pills this evening,I want to sleep until this is over, I don't want to go back there. I don't want to go back ever. Why are people so mean to me? I know I sound childish and whiny but I am really hurt. These comments are what hurt me the most, they make me feel like a freak who doesn't belong here or anywhere. What is wrong?
Posted by AnneL on October 9, 2001, at 22:38:03
In reply to I'm defective, posted by Else on October 9, 2001, at 20:48:56
> Else,
Anyone who says mean things to others has a problem. Some of us are more sensitive to other's insensitive comments than others. Defective? Try replacing the word with sensitive,
maybe overly sensitive at times. Are you kind to people? Try giving out at least one genuine compliment to someone each day. The only responsibility you have is to treat yourself with kindness, the rest will follow. Keep your radar out and stay away from mean-spirited people. Everyone has problems, everyone has a sore spot, a hurt spot, a "defect" if you will. There is a saying "fake it 'till you make it". Give one smile to someone and it will be returned. Just a small thing. It's OK to have great needs, just remember in order to get you need to give, even if you can give only a little bit. Consider yourself hugged. :) Anne
Posted by Else on October 10, 2001, at 7:03:22
In reply to Re: I'm defective » Else, posted by AnneL on October 9, 2001, at 22:38:03
Thanks Anne,
I meant I contribute very little at psycho-babble. I don't have much time these days and mostly I just post when I need to vent these days. So I was sort of apologizing for that. I am, however, very nice and polite with the people
I have group therapy with. I was very depressed yesterday and I guess I was exagerating a bit. Not everyone hates me. I just seem to get on this guy's nerves for some reason. It's just that these situations tend to bring back every memory I have of everyone who has ever been nasty to me in my life. I feel better now. But it's true that I talk too much and tend to interrupt people. It's rude, I know. But my mouth is faster than my brain at times. It's a real problem. I try very hard to be "polite" like everyone else but I always end up looking like I want to draw attention to myself. It's not like that and it really troubles me that people see it that way. Anyway. Thank you for the feedback. Best wishes to you.> > Else,
> Anyone who says mean things to others has a problem. Some of us are more sensitive to other's insensitive comments than others. Defective? Try replacing the word with sensitive,
> maybe overly sensitive at times. Are you kind to people? Try giving out at least one genuine compliment to someone each day. The only responsibility you have is to treat yourself with kindness, the rest will follow. Keep your radar out and stay away from mean-spirited people. Everyone has problems, everyone has a sore spot, a hurt spot, a "defect" if you will. There is a saying "fake it 'till you make it". Give one smile to someone and it will be returned. Just a small thing. It's OK to have great needs, just remember in order to get you need to give, even if you can give only a little bit. Consider yourself hugged. :) Anne
Posted by Elizabeth on October 10, 2001, at 13:41:22
In reply to I'm defective, posted by Else on October 9, 2001, at 20:48:56
Else,
I can relate to what you've written. I often feel like there's a manual on "how do be a human being" and I didn't get a copy.
FWIW, I don't know you very well, but I think you're likable.
-elizabeth
Posted by SLS on October 10, 2001, at 15:19:53
In reply to I'm defective, posted by Else on October 9, 2001, at 20:48:56
Hi Else.
I don't know you except for your first post along this thread.
You really do sound hurt, but you sound even more frustrated.
Knowing someone through their words on the Internet and knowing them in person can be very different. However, there is no doubt that you are honest and sensitive. I do not use the word "sensitive" as meaning that you are overly reactive to rejection, although you might be. Instead, I use it as meaning that you are tuned-in to people's emotions, including your own, and you probably don't understand why others are not. I think it would be a crime for you to become impervious to them.
The rest might not apply to you.
Perhaps you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable to attack by too often displaying your sensitivity and reactivity. You might be exposing too much of yourself to people with whom you do not have an established intimacy. There is nothing wrong with guarding your emotions from those whom you do not yet trust or feel safe with. This means that it might be time to set some boundaries between yourself and those around you. It is not healthy for you to allow everyone equal access to your personal self. You can share different things with different people. As each individual is unique, so to will be the boundaries that you establish with each of them.
It is also important to recognize and respect the boundaries of others. It takes practice to get the "feel" for where an individual feels comfortable in a relationship or even a simple conversation. That you so quickly "blurt" things out might be representative of your not understanding that these boundaries exist. It might be that once you respect yourself enough to set boundaries so as to prevent everyone from knowing too much about you, AND, you learn to recognize and respect the boundaries of others, you will find that their respect for you will grow.
It is not necessary that you disclose all of yourself to everyone around you. It is your right to pick and choose. It is healthy you do this. It is your responsibility to keep at arm's length those whom you do not care for or feel unsafe with. This might best be accomplished by not telling them too much. It is within your power to assert your own boundaries. Perhaps you can first try to recognize the boundaries of others, and from them learn how to develop those of your own.
Do you find it difficult to say "no"? I still do.
When I get lost, I try to follow a simple rule. When in doubt, say nothing. I obviously don't do a very good job of it. :-)
Take your time. You'll be OK. It's great that you can talk about these things so openly with the right people. I don't know if I could be so brave.
Sincerely,
Scott
Posted by SLS on October 10, 2001, at 15:41:21
In reply to I'm defective, posted by Else on October 9, 2001, at 20:48:56
Sorry.
I forgot.
Adult ADD can result in various behavioral and emotional changes of which some of your experiences might be the product. It would not be fair to expect of you the same abilities to set boundaries and improve your social interactions than what might be capable of someone without ADD. You would have to work with your mental health professionals to identify any ADD tendencies and how to treat them medically and work with them behaviorally and emotionally.
I'm just throwing out a few thoughts. They are probably not all applicable or sensible.
SEE... I'm not being mean to you, am I?
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Else on October 10, 2001, at 18:51:42
In reply to Re: defective » Else, posted by Elizabeth on October 10, 2001, at 13:41:22
Thanks Elizabeth,
Coming from you this means a lot. As I have said before, I have a great deal of respect for your judgement and your contribution to this board. You have been very helpful to a lot of people here, I am quite sure of that ( including me). Anyway, thanks again and my best wishes to you.> Else,
>
> I can relate to what you've written. I often feel like there's a manual on "how do be a human being" and I didn't get a copy.
>
> FWIW, I don't know you very well, but I think you're likable.
>
> -elizabeth
Posted by Else on October 10, 2001, at 20:03:00
In reply to Re: I'm defective » Else, posted by SLS on October 10, 2001, at 15:19:53
--
> Hi Else.
>
Hello Scott> I don't know you except for your first post along this thread.
>
> You really do sound hurt, but you sound even more frustrated.
>
> Knowing someone through their words on the Internet and knowing them in person can be very different. However, there is no doubt that you are honest and sensitive. I do not use the word "sensitive" as meaning that you are overly reactive to rejection, although you might be. Instead, I use it as meaning that you are tuned-in to people's emotions, including your own, and you probably don't understand why others are not. I think it would be a crime for you to become impervious to them.*This is interesting, I am not sure I am too "tuned-in" to other people's feelings. Maybe I am but sometimes I think I interpret rather meaningless gestures or words in an excessively negative way. I don't know if that's what you mean. Conversersly, I would say I am not always sure exactly what I am feeling, except in a very vague sense (good, bad, flattered, hurt, etc...). I think in some instances I am excessively sensitive to what others are feeling, at other times, I am so nervous and/or caught up in what I have to say, I barely notice.
> The rest might not apply to you.
>
> Perhaps you are allowing yourself to be vulnerable to attack by too often displaying your sensitivity and reactivity. You might be exposing too much of yourself to people with whom you do not have an established intimacy.Actually no. This does not apply at all. I wish I could be more open often times.
There is nothing wrong with guarding your emotions from those whom you do not yet trust or feel safe with. This means that it might be time to set some boundaries between yourself and those around you. It is not healthy for you to allow everyone equal access to your personal self. You can share different things with different people. As each individual is unique, so to will be the boundaries that you establish with each of them.*I know what you mean but I do guard my emotions, probably to an excessive level. It keeps me from getting closer to people. I have no problem with sharing my opinions however. This is what gets me in trouble.
>
> It is also important to recognize and respect the boundaries of others. It takes practice to get the "feel" for where an individual feels comfortable in a relationship or even a simple conversation. That you so quickly "blurt" things out might be representative of your not understanding that these boundaries exist.* I feel that I might not respect other people's boundaries at times, by making innapropriate jokes for instance. At other times, I will try to get closer to people and fail because I don't really know how.
It might be that once you respect yourself enough to set boundaries so as to prevent everyone from knowing too much about you, AND, you learn to recognize and respect the boundaries of others, you will find that their respect for you will grow.
*I don't feel I reveal the "appropriate" information. For instance, I tend to discuss scientific discoveries or current events and feel very confortable in that. I have trouble sharing my feelings or cheering people up though. It feels fake or unnatural for some reason.
> It is not necessary that you disclose all of yourself to everyone around you. It is your right to pick and choose. It is healthy you do this. It is your responsibility to keep at arm's length those whom you do not care for or feel unsafe with. This might best be accomplished by not telling them too much. It is within your power to assert your own boundaries. Perhaps you can first try to recognize the boundaries of others, and from them learn how to develop those of your own.
*I think I understand what you are saying. The thing is, I tend to come off as cold because I don't usually discuss my feelings (neither do my family members and most of my friends, it's the way I was brought up, people just talk about the news or joke around. I have always been a bit envious of the people who could be completely genuine at all times. I am much too cynical and distrustful for that). I never feel uncomfortable discussing "intellectual" subjects because I am rather secure about my intelligence. I feel safe doing that. I avoid discussing my feelings because it's alien territory to me. I'm afraid I'll start crying if someone criticizes me, even constructively; or I'll take things very personnally when people are only joking and get angry or upset, it's a real problem.
> Do you find it difficult to say "no"? I still do.I do too. I sometimes fear people will be as hurt as I would be ( or would take a "no" as personnally) which is not always the case, obviously.
> When I get lost, I try to follow a simple rule. When in doubt, say nothing. I obviously don't do a very good job of it. :-)
* I wish I could. I have been working on that for years to no avail. I find that a lot of really dumb people manage to look "deep" simply by keeping their mouth shut. But you know, sometimes it is so tempting to just say SOMETHING. It just springs to mind and it HAS to come out. Why is that so bad? I suppose if people don't like you in the first place it makes you even more annoying in their eyes.
> Take your time. You'll be OK. It's great that you can talk about these things so openly with the right people. I don't know if I could be so brave.
Geez Scott, honestly, the only reason I can be so open about everything is because I take so much Klonopin. Before, I could never even have posted anything here. I would have been too worried about the negative feedback. Anyway. Thanks for replying. I do feel much better than I did yesterday and much of this is due to the replies I got here. Thank you for taking the time.
>
> Sincerely,
> Scott
Posted by Else on October 10, 2001, at 21:13:27
In reply to Re: I'm defective » Else, posted by SLS on October 10, 2001, at 15:41:21
Actually I think you are right. My doctor first diagnosed me as Bipolar II but there are no cases of manic-depression in my (very large) extended family and bipolar disorder is supposed to be highly hereditary. I should probably worry about diabetes more.
Anyway, I never really feel THAT good (manic or hypomanic). All my symptoms point in the direction of ADD associated with some nondescript anxiety disorder: a mixture of social phobia, GAD along with some mild OCD symptoms (which would better fit my family history anyway). My doctor has actually admitted that this is probably my problem, as I have already mentionned, even though such a diagnosis often involves prescribing some very nasty (why, downright evil!) addictive drugs like tranquilizers and stimulants.I am already on 3mg/daily Klonopin to control my anxiety and it has worked much better than any other drug I have taken before (Prozac, Zoloft, Depakote, Effexor, Neurontin, Desyrel, etc.). I have already tried Wellbutrin and Effexor for ADD. Wellbutrin produced nasty neurological side effects (tremors, neck twiches, partial seizures... I did quit smoking with it though, so I can't dismiss it completely, it did help). It stopped helping me with my ADD symptoms after one month (possibly when the stimulant effects wore-off). Effexor was horrible. It kept me awake for three or four consecutive days until I could manage to get 5 or 6 hours of very poor sleep until I was up again for another couple of days(which was NOT good for my concentration or attention at all). Some people would think spending more time awake makes you more productive. I suppose it would if you had some sort of euphoric hypomania. This was not the case for me, however. I was too mentally tired to do anything but too physically agitated to sleep. It was quite awful. But I am sure a lot of people here have been through the same. I couldn't stop moving but all I could think about was "Sleep,sleep,sleep,sleep,...", nothing else. How Effexor can be an effective med for Generalized Anxiety Disorder puzzles me though. Maybe I wasn't on it long enough. Who knows? It made me much, much worse in any event.
But I know Effexor has helped a lot of people on this board and I don't want to dismiss it just because I reacted badly to it. The same goes for every other drug I have named. I go to a support group and some people have found drugs like Effexor or Depakote tremendously helpful. My point is, they are not better simply because they are less addictive. And they do produce withdrawal symptoms. The main difference is that they will not produce cravings the way stimulants and benzos can. I believe this is what society condemns. If it feels good, DON'T do it. I don't know you and I don't know what your philosophy is but I personnally strongly disagree with the main current in western thought that says pleasure is to be earned by effort. Pleasure may be a consequence of effort and if that is the case than this is great. This is how we have evolved. But should hapiness (or a mere chance at it) have a price?For some people, drugs that have potential for addiction simply work better. I don't think it matters, anyway, if you're going to take the drug for years and years. Why pick Paxil over Xanax for anxiety if you're going to take these pills for the rest of your life? Why is addiction even an issue? Some would say you would have to increase your dose of Xanax indefinitely while you could stick with 20mg die of Paxil forever. This is not true. Benzos looze their effectiveness as hypnotics, anticonvulsants, antispasmodics and sedatives rather quickly, but they maintain their effectiveness as tranquilizers over extended periods. Conversely, SSRIs can and do "poop-out". Anyway, I am sort of rambling now so don't mind this part if you are already bored to death but anyway. My doctor has admitted ADD was a "likely" diagnosis in my case and has said that there were three drugs that were customary for adult ADD (in Canada, we are less evolved, you see): first Wellbutrin, then a high dose of Effexor and finally Ritalin when all else failed. Last time I saw him he seemed relatively openned to the idea of prescribing it. He said he just wanted to make sure my distractibility wasn't due exclusively to my anxiety (hence the Klonopin). I know it isn't. But I have waited 25 years, I can wait another couple of weeks.
> Sorry.
>
> I forgot.
>
> Adult ADD can result in various behavioral and emotional changes of which some of your experiences might be the product. It would not be fair to expect of you the same abilities to set boundaries and improve your social interactions than what might be capable of someone without ADD. You would have to work with your mental health professionals to identify any ADD tendencies and how to treat them medically and work with them behaviorally and emotionally.
>
> I'm just throwing out a few thoughts. They are probably not all applicable or sensible.
>
> SEE... I'm not being mean to you, am I?
>
> :-)
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on October 11, 2001, at 10:35:45
In reply to Re: I'm defective » SLS, posted by Else on October 10, 2001, at 21:13:27
> For some people, drugs that have potential for addiction simply work better. I don't think it matters, anyway, if you're going to take the drug for years and years. Why pick Paxil over Xanax for anxiety if you're going to take these pills for the rest of your life? Why is addiction even an issue? Some would say you would have to increase your dose of Xanax indefinitely while you could stick with 20mg die of Paxil forever. This is not true. Benzos looze their effectiveness as hypnotics, anticonvulsants, antispasmodics and sedatives rather quickly, but they maintain their effectiveness as tranquilizers over extended periods. Conversely, SSRIs can and do "poop-out". Anyway, I am sort of rambling now so don't mind this part if you are already bored to death but anyway.
You ramble well. You are right. Your confidence in your intellect is well founded. I think the consensus on this board is in agreement with everything you have said. I'll definitely be calling on you from time to time for help.
Have a nice day.
- Scott
Posted by Elizabeth on October 11, 2001, at 11:27:47
In reply to Re: defective » Elizabeth, posted by Else on October 10, 2001, at 18:51:42
> Coming from you this means a lot. As I have said before, I have a great deal of respect for your judgement and your contribution to this board.
Thanks, I'm really flattered by that. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your difficulties and frustrations! I have a terrible time "reading" people and I often misjudge how others will react to things I say or do.
I liked Scott's posts. He has some wise advice there, I think.
-elizabeth
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 11, 2001, at 17:49:35
In reply to Re: defective -- not!, posted by Elizabeth on October 11, 2001, at 11:27:47
> > Coming from you this means a lot. As I have said before, I have a great deal of respect for your judgement and your contribution to this board.
>
> Thanks, I'm really flattered by that. I just wanted you to know that you're not alone in your difficulties and frustrations! ...I think this thread would fit in better at Psycho-Social-Babble, please redirect any further follow-ups there. Thanks,
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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