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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cinder on September 11, 1999, at 20:39:38
I tried to send this once, but it disappeared (no, I didn't have a psychotic break)
(this time) We are allowed gallows humor here, right?
Hopefully this is a bunch of people that I can discuss this with. I've never told anyone except my
pdoc. I wonder if anyone else has this "problem"
I fixate on people. Since puberty it's always been men, but before that
there was one girl that I was jealous of in school.
These obsessions have lasted from 3-4 months to the current one almost 7 years. I make up scenarios about this guy (my present
obsession).It tkaes up a good percentage of my time. Of course, the scenarios include the sex thing, but often they are just conversations that we have, or I'll
daydream that he's with me at the grocery store and pretend to myself what we would say to
each other. I have a compulsion to drive past his house
or where he works (this is finally slowing down). I know all sorts of stuff about him, Even went through his house when it was for sale. I see him about twice
a month, because we work in the same programme at a medical university (OB/GYN) He has no idea that I do this (you are saying, "Ya, right he doesn't"), but
seriously, he has no idea. When I do actually see him at work it is no big deal. It is as if I have used
his life and looks as a foundation for these fantasies...and yet I'm sure that if any of this
ever came true, he would drive me crazy!(He's a surgeon...say no more)This is not a 'father figure" or "authority figure thing...there have been Dr.s, truck drivers, a blacksmith... This is all hard to explain, and I don't want to bore anyone.
I wish that I felt some control over this. I'm also afraid that if I didn't have this active fantasy life, I'd miss it!
Anyone have any insight into this? My pdoc says that if it doesn't interfere with my life and I like it, I should just continue and let it run its course.
Sometimes I feel guilty that I should be giving this energy to my kids and family. I also have clinical depression, which
strikes me big at least once a year for a few months at a time.
I'll stop now. Comments?
Posted by Lurker on September 12, 1999, at 0:32:18
In reply to obsessions about others, posted by cinder on September 11, 1999, at 20:39:38
I fixate on people. Since puberty it's always been men, but before that
Sounds a bit like borderline personality disorder plus
depression.
Apparently it happens alot to people who have
truly insecure childhood experiences. These can include
alcoholic or parents who fight constantly; or any lack
of healthy child-adult relationships. For the female
child who has a disinterested and/or distracted mother
coupled to distant/cold or nonexistent father, this
is a double whammy. With no one to guide her, she
idolizes anybody (usually men) who give her the
tiniest bit of attention. When they "abandon" her,
the child still inside throws a "tantrum" and
wants to punish that person. Usually this never
happens so she falls into that vast pit of anger
and melancholy.Lots of variations on this disoder, though. And if
the new bio on Princess Diana is 1/2 real, it looks
as if she was a prime candidate.
>
Posted by Noa on September 12, 1999, at 0:53:47
In reply to Re: obsessions about others, posted by Lurker on September 12, 1999, at 0:32:18
Sounds a bit like OCD to me. As to how much it interferes with your life, it sounds like it is interfering a bit, in that you can't stop thinking about the person, and at times can't control certain impulses, like go to his house when it's for sale. It might be helpful to take a dual approach--therapy to understand the emotional need, and psychopharm to address the obsessive thinking.
Posted by Bob on September 12, 1999, at 16:47:42
In reply to obsessions about others, posted by cinder on September 11, 1999, at 20:39:38
>He's a surgeon...say no more
Ain't it the truth! LOL!I think your pdoc has a point about not trying to stifle your fantasies as long as they're not a problem in other ways, but it seems to me that it should have "run its course" in less than seven years!
I have to admit that I've done the same, on a less intense basis. Prior to meds, I didn't have an assertive bone in my body, particularly in interpersonal situations. Instead of simply asking someone out on a date, I'd imagine conversations and shared activities and create, basically, this perfect image of this woman as my partner ... which I knew wasn't who she was anyway, or I'd put this image on a pedestal and feel myself completely unworthy of even looking at her or talking to her. The few times I could manage to ask someone out, I'd take so much time to work up my nerve and then, finally, it would all come out in an awkward, stuttering rush with me blushing redder than a lobster. It was an approach that seldom worked, I'm sure you can imagine.
For me, it was always a case of a larger-than-life perception of the woman who, I had convinced myself, was my one and only "soul mate" versus my inherent lack of worth, crooked teeth, whatevah!
I don't know if this at all what you're feeling in obsessing this way. When I came to NYC four years ago, I thought I could reinvent myself, but these behaviors were still there. Getting on meds helped incredibly for me ... while SSRIs haven't had a good track record as ADs for me, they have both reduced my obsessive behaviors to almost nothing and have helped my confidence in social situations immensely.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Cinder on September 13, 1999, at 21:27:00
In reply to Re: obsessions about others, posted by Lurker on September 12, 1999, at 0:32:18
Lurker...you should get a 1-900 number for "Psychic Psychiatric Evaluation"
What you stated in your follow-up is 100% on the money. My father was non-existent
(died before my Mom knew she was going to have me)
and my Mom worked full-time as well as having a business, in order
to keep us (6 kids altogether) fed and clothed. She also had depression, but of course back then that
was treated with Valium. She was diagnosed in 1997
(after she came to terms with MY depression) and she's way too normal now...almost scary.;)
My first hospitalised depression was triggered when I found out that all (90%) of
my childhood memories were made up. During a phone call with my sister, she mentioned something that had
happened when we were kids and I said that of course I wouldn't remember that, I didn't live at Mom's
with you guys until I was in my teens. I always lived with my Grandma. She told me that that wasn't true
and although I had stayed with Grandma very occassionally, I never had my own room or anything. I checked this
out with everyone (even Grandma) and it's true.
I never lived there. Yet I have VERY few memories of my
Mom's house. If I took a polygraph test and was asked where I lived
while growing up, I would have to say "At my Grandma's" Even though I know in my mind that this
isn't true...it's still true to me. Follow me? Not long after this, I started slidong down-hill
and was finally diagnosed as depressive when I landed in the hospital.
Fun, fun, fun!
That might be an interesting new thread to start..."People who made up their childhoods"...any takers??
Cinder
Posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 11:12:57
In reply to Re: obsessions about others, posted by Bob on September 12, 1999, at 16:47:42
Bob,
You've probably written someplace in this miasma of commentary on what combo. of meds you are using and what you are using them to deal with but perhaps you could repeat that once again as I find my curiousity aroused by a your posts. When you refer to ADs vs SSRIs I assume the former are pre-SSRI ADs or what? Did you mention in one of your posts becoming wooden in your resposnes at one time or was that someone else. If it was you what was the cause and how did you move beyond...??
> I don't know if this at all what you're feeling in obsessing this way. When I came to NYC four years ago, I thought I could reinvent myself, but these behaviors were still there. Getting on meds helped incredibly for me ... while SSRIs haven't had a good track record as ADs for me, they have both reduced my obsessive behaviors to almost nothing and have helped my confidence in social situations immensely.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
Posted by Bob on September 14, 1999, at 14:37:44
In reply to Re: obsessions & concessions..., posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 11:12:57
> Bob,
> You've probably written someplace in this miasma of commentary on what combo. of meds you are using and what you are using them to deal with but perhaps you could repeat that once again as I find my curiousity aroused by a your posts.Let's see how parsimonious (what a long word for "keep it short"!) I can keep this ;^)
(1)zoloft, then off for several months. (2)zoloft. (3)paxil. (4)wellbutrin. (5)wellbutrin/perphenazine. (6)prozac/wellbutrin/perphenazine. (7)cogentin,ativan(followed by zyprexa)[ER visit]. (8)prozac/clonazepam. (9)prozac/lithium/clonazepam. (10)zoloft/lithium/clonazepam. (11)zoloft/nortriptyline/clonazepam.
That's the list to date, prescribed for major depressive disorder & panic disorder. My pdoc has wanted to keep me away from TCAs because I seem to have a hair-trigger for side effects, so we're looking at augmenting SSRIs. The clonazepam has been a godsend for the panic. The cogwheeling (woodeness) was a reaction between the prozac and perphenazine, again, normally seen at levels at least 20x the dose of perphenazine I was on. Moving beyond it? Simple. Stop taking perphenazine. But that meant stop taking wellbutrin, because of the rages it induced (thus the need for an anti-psychotic med). Cogentin in the ER was a muscle relaxant, and I kept that up for a few days to help erase months of build-up. Zyprexa was the ER pdoc's follow thru on the ativan, and once that supply was out my own pdoc put me on the clonazepam.
As for any SSRI vs. other-AD undertone (didn't mean it, but after rereading I guess it *is* there) ... I'm quite fed up with my lack of response to SSRIs. Nortriptyline was a pretty big boost for me, so I would like to look a bit more closely at TCAs, particularly after reading some recent stuff about how TCA-non-responders often respond to SSRIs and, in my case maybe, vice versa. What's stopping me right now can be summed up quite succinctly: ADA and Job Action (how about that for a thread?). I can't afford any instability that a change in meds would cause right now.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 14:52:42
In reply to Re: obsessions & concessions..., posted by Bob on September 14, 1999, at 14:37:44
> > The cogwheeling (woodeness) was a reaction between the prozac and perphenazine, ...). Cogentin in the ER was a muscle relaxant, and I kept that up for a few days to help erase months of build-up.
>
>... What's stopping me right now can be summed up quite succinctly: ADA and Job Action (how about that for a thread?). I can't afford any instability that a change in meds would cause right now.
>
> Cheers,
> BobBob,
Thanks for the litany, whew....no wonder I hesitate when it comes to pshychopharms...the so-called cure is as daunting as the so called dis-ease in many ways...
A couple more queries, if you don't mind...By cogwheeling aka woodeness do you mean that you were incredibly tight and tense as a result of attempting to hold down your rage impulses?
>... What's stopping me right now can be summed up quite succinctly: ADA and Job Action (how about that for a thread?). I can't afford any instability that a change in meds would cause right now.
>Not quite sure what you mean by " ADA and Job Action". Could you elaborate a bit, please...Changes in meds. would effect your job situation? or ???
Posted by Bob on September 14, 1999, at 16:04:15
In reply to Re: obsessions & concessions..., posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 14:52:42
"Cogwheeling" is the term my girlfriend/psych-intern/ex-psych-halfway-house-counselor gave for it, tho I guess its common enough. It has nothing to do with the tension/rage/psychosis the WB brought on for me. I could hardly tell it was happening myself, but from the observations of others: I was hunching my shoulders up into my neck and head, and bending over forward somewhat. My range of motion in my head was limited side to side, and I would have to twist from the waist to see. I had some Parkinson's-like hand tremors. I also walked a bit stiff legged. From what was described to me afterward, I imagine I must have looked like a 36yr old man imitating an 80yr old with osteoporosis and Parkinson's.
As for the more-cryptic-than-I-imagined "ADA and Job Action": over the last year, my supervisor has been engaging in discriminatory job actions against me, increasing in seriousness over the past year. As soon as I mentioned "reasonable accommodations" to start taking some initiative on my own, she took actions that are blatantly discriminatory and go against everything that's related to this topic in our employee's handbook. To make matters worse, our company's HR director is coming down on the company's side, which ain't mine. Anyway, I do have evidence to both contradict statements made against me and to identify my supervisor's behavior as inappropriate. I'm just jumping my way through all the official hoops -- I need to file a written rebuttal to her statements, and when she and the HR person don't respond favorably, then I take it to the CEO (small organization, thankfully!, or I'd have a few more steps to go). If the CEO doesn't respond, then I file with the EEOC for a "right to sue" paper of some sort ... then I get a lawyer and see who can intimidate whom. If it does go that far, my employer is a non-profit who cannot afford the publicity that a statement from the EEOC questioning its non-discrimination statements would bring.
The best thing about it is I already have a better job offer -- soon as some grant money comes in, I'm gone. But given that 1 in 20 Americans is supposed to be suffereing from some mental illness at any given time, that means I have 3-4 other colleagues in the same position as me. For them, and for anyone who comes after me, I am not going to let the management of my organization pull this sort of BS on again.
It's really nice to be able to fight on a matter of principle.
Fight the good fight, folks
Bob
Posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 16:55:02
In reply to cogwheeling and stuff, posted by Bob on September 14, 1999, at 16:04:15
"... Personal attitudes and habits can rigidify into chronic muscular and connective tissue tension--producing "blockages" in the energy, which manifest as illness. Illness is an expression of frozen energy, occurring when the energy body closes, or rigidifies. To heal, the person needs to thaw... A person opens up in intimate dialogue with self and others. Thus, the challenge is to help the client to establish intimate relationships with the self, and with others."
Bob, the above quote is from an article partially excerpted in my comments under "shiatzu" above... Your description of cogwheeling sounds somewhat similar to what happens to me when I tighten up in an attempt to shut down whatever is going on -- generally unconsciously until I notice extreme tightness, pain or just being entirely whacked. However, it sounds like it may have been the result of med. use for you and letting them wash out of your system relieved the symptoms. Is that right? Maybe your body was fighting the meds. or what was triggered by the meds? It's all very bizarre these lives we weave...
Good luck sorting out the work situation. I'm not clear still what ADA is but you do have your hands full and hopefully it will work out well for you in the end.
Sante!
dj
> "Cogwheeling" is the term my girlfriend/psych-intern/ex-psych-halfway-house-counselor gave for it, tho I guess its common enough. It has nothing to do with the tension/rage/psychosis the WB brought on for me. I could hardly tell it was happening myself, but from the observations of others: I was hunching my shoulders up into my neck and head, and bending over forward somewhat. My range of motion in my head was limited side to side, and I would have to twist from the waist to see. I had some Parkinson's-like hand tremors. I also walked a bit stiff legged. From what was described to me afterward, I imagine I must have looked like a 36yr old man imitating an 80yr old with osteoporosis and Parkinson's.
Posted by Bob on September 14, 1999, at 20:26:40
In reply to Re: cogwheeling and stuff, posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 16:55:02
The cogwheeling was purely physiological, a response of the build up of the perphenazine in my system. Thankfully, it was easily remedied. If you want to hear about a physical nightmare, look up tardive dyskinesia ... an irreversible condition that can be induced by meds like perphenazine.
>I'm not clear still what ADA is ...
The Americans with Disabilities Act, my friend. The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (www.nami.org) has some good information on how it applies. It particular, they have a good description of how Title 1 of the ADA applies to mental illness and employment. Much of the ADA is about requiring public and private organizations to provide "reasonable accommodations" for those with physical or mental disabilities. In the workplace, these disabilities receive similar protection against discrimination as gender, race, ethnicity, age, etc. The NAMI page about the ADA Title 1 (issues in the workplace) provides a list of "reasonable accommodations" that have stood up in court -- one in particular that my supervisor doesn't like is the right to a "supportive and understanding supervisor" :^). But before you can run off to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission for a "right to sue" letter, you (A) must make your condition know to your employer and (B) exhaust reasonable means within the workplace to resolve the issue. (A) is part of the law, (B) is more common sense -- if you go crying wolf without taking reasonable steps, you won't even get to court ... the EEOC won't be interested, and neither will any lawyers. (Thankfully, not only is my girlfriend a clinician-in-training, she's an ex-lawyer!)
One recent "setback" to the ADA by the US Supreme Court was a ruling that the ADA does not apply to conditions that are easily treated with medication or by other means. That was to prevent stuff like someone who is nearsighted demanding a 21" monitor so they could set it to a lower resolution to not strain their eyes. I can foresee some cases about psychopharms coming up against this ruling ... but just about anyone's experience on Babble can show that none of our conditions are easily treated through medication.
Cheers,
Bobbtw, the URL for that NAMI page on the ADA is http://www.nami.org/cgi-bin/printfyl.cgi?/nami/www/helpline/ada.htm
fyi -- tla = three letter acronym (lol!)
Posted by dj on September 14, 1999, at 20:42:44
In reply to Egahds! So much for TLAs like the ADA ..., posted by Bob on September 14, 1999, at 20:26:40
Merci, mon ami mais ca ne march pas au Canada!
> The Americans with Disabilities Act, my friend. The National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (www.nami.org) has some good information on how it applies.
Posted by Brenda on September 27, 1999, at 7:34:13
In reply to Re: obsessions about others, posted by Bob on September 12, 1999, at 16:47:42
Cinder would you please email me at lilniko@earthlink.net?
I too had the same kind of experience lasting around 7 years. Never knew of anybody else. Would love to chat about things.
Thanks.
Brenda.
This is the end of the thread.
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