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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by pinkeetoz on April 5, 2006, at 16:50:12
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on April 5, 2006, at 0:42:41
Hi guys. Still no remeron for me. STILL WAITING for the Lexapro to kick in. I am having to deal with life on life's terms, its tough. Need the lexapro to help it out. Talk soon, pinkeetoz
Posted by musky on April 6, 2006, at 0:47:57
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by pinkeetoz on April 5, 2006, at 16:50:12
Hi pinkeetoz:
Try not to think that you NEED the lexapro.. thats where we all get stuck here... I think the real key to get drug free is to not believe in the drug... period... I know you may have life issues but we all do and must learn somehow to deal with on our own.. that is what will make us strong.. NOT the drug.. just our mind.
Good luck
musky> Hi guys. Still no remeron for me. STILL WAITING for the Lexapro to kick in. I am having to deal with life on life's terms, its tough. Need the lexapro to help it out. Talk soon, pinkeetoz
Posted by jules354 on April 6, 2006, at 7:06:02
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by pinkeetoz on April 5, 2006, at 16:50:12
Hey everyone,
my mood has been pretty good although my skin & scalp are still itchy and sometimes it's hard to fall asleep. i know my mood might dip again but for the past week or so i've been feeling good.
overall i feel like things are evening out ...i know some of you are really struggling and my heart goes out to you. i like musky's idea of a safety kit stuffed with good stuff, affirmations etc., and a phone tree of supportive friends.
take care,
jules
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2006, at 16:12:42
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on April 6, 2006, at 0:47:57
> Try not to think that you NEED the lexapro.. thats where we all get stuck here...
Mind over matter?
> I think the real key to get drug free is to not believe in the drug... period...
It is wonderful that this approach has worked for you.
> I know you may have life issues but we all do
No one would dispute this.
> and must learn somehow to deal with on our own..
Or with the help of others.
> that is what will make us strong..
> NOT the drug.. just our mind.
The state of the mind is dependent on the state of the brain. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with yours. The same cannot be said for everyone who suffers from MDD.
I believe that a sizeable percentage of people who are clinically depressed need a biological intervention. I believe that this is true as passionately as you believe that it is not. I guess each of us has acquired a bias based on our own personal experiences.
Not all depressions are biological. Not all depressions are psychological. I try not to speak for everyone.
- Scott
Posted by pinkeetoz on April 7, 2006, at 11:44:16
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by SLS on April 6, 2006, at 16:12:42
Thanks for the post guys. Jules, glad you're doing better. I am starting to believe that the klonopin, although it works well for anxiety and really got me through a horrible time is causing more depression. Could that be? Although, now, I can't do without it, what a mess, sry not being too positive this morning. Thanks for keeping in touch with me, pinkeetoz
Posted by SLS on April 7, 2006, at 16:38:50
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by pinkeetoz on April 7, 2006, at 11:44:16
> Thanks for the post guys. Jules, glad you're doing better. I am starting to believe that the klonopin, although it works well for anxiety and really got me through a horrible time is causing more depression. Could that be?
Yes.
Many people have found Klonopin to be depressogenic. It is a common complaint seen on the main Psycho-Babble board.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by jules354 on April 7, 2006, at 21:19:13
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » jules354, posted by cashy72 on April 3, 2006, at 10:56:02
cashy72,
my advice is to be careful going off these meds...go as slowly as you can stand to take good care of yourself around the withdrawal effects.
good luck,
jules
Posted by jules354 on April 7, 2006, at 21:21:10
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by pinkeetoz on April 7, 2006, at 11:44:16
hang in there. i'm thinking good thoughts for you. stay in touch about how it's going.
take care,
jules
Posted by cashy72 on April 8, 2006, at 4:24:20
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » pinkeetoz, posted by jules354 on April 7, 2006, at 21:21:10
Hey Thanx Jules. Im feeling no more dizzy spells, and head shocks now after being off Lexapro for 14 days now. Pretty much back too full power!! Still takin' 30mg of mirtazapine, and think i'll give it a week or two before slowly tapering off over a few months or so. I hope your all feeling good this weekend, and keep smilin'!! Hang in there. Cheers for now.
Cashy72.
Posted by jules354 on April 11, 2006, at 7:30:11
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by cashy72 on April 8, 2006, at 4:24:20
hey everyone,
just wanted to see how folks are doing. my mood has been dipping again but i'm not sure if it's the w/d or just life's triggers.
take care,
jules
Posted by cashy72 on April 11, 2006, at 8:05:48
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by jules354 on April 11, 2006, at 7:30:11
Hey Jules, yeah i've been feeling abit low the last day or two? Not sure if it's just how things are, or what? Might hit the gym later and try and pick myself up! Mind you the weather at the mo ain't helping things!
Still off the lexapro. 18 days now, so far so good... Still taking 30mg mirtazpine at nighttime... shall see how it goes the next few weeks.... Keep Smilin',
Cashy72.
Posted by musky on April 12, 2006, at 1:36:32
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by SLS on April 6, 2006, at 16:12:42
> >Thanks for your comments Scott
Firstly what is MDD? and the state of the brain and the state of the mind are one in the same i think.. When you say state of the brain(in what context).. because they havent specifically come out and said... chemical"X" is for sure 100% responsible for depression..
Remember too that when they say one has clinical depression , that just means you fit the little flow chart that the doctor goes by.. Im sure if you were to give the survey to the next 100 people on the street ,, that every other one would come out as clinically depressed according to "some" questionare...
I think MAJORITY of people can be helped with out meds, and that less than 1% of the population has an actual organic disease of the brain(your psychotic killer, or maybe schizophrenia, which that even is still up for debate).where they have to be treated by meds..
Because when you really look out thee so many people are now prescibed meds for so many ailments from isomnia to pain to dermatitis and are given a/d for this?? this doesnt make sense as now we have drugs that are affecting the serontonin(supposedly) that now have a use for everything??? When they say they are SELECTIVE serontoin reuptake inhibitors, where is all this SELECTIVITY now when they prescribe it all over for so many DIVERSE things.
But again... if the so called clinical depression theory is true and needs biological intervention , I look at it this way... biological intervention doesnt necessarily mean drugs... They have never proven that there is a DIRECT correllation with a/d and effect on SPECIFIC chemicals in the brain resulting in a DIRECT effect on mood.
It has been proven however with cognitive behavioral therapy (much proven clinical trials) which is just changing the way you think(voluntarily), can have a drastic effect on mood . and is much more effective for mood disorders , etc, than medication. For example just think of when you are excited about something or suddenly scared... just by thinking this you can directly affect the body's physiological response ... ie the adrenaline that is released when we are scared, etc. It has been shown countless times that simple meditation (just controlling ones thoughts) can directly affect ones heartrate etc.. so to me that is proof and i have personally been able to get myself out of a panic or anxiety attack by simply THINKING differently.
I dont believe that MOOD cannot be controlled by the mind.. one just has to believe it.. We CHOOSE how we think,, I dont think that it is the other way around and we have no choice because of some biological response,,
Not to say that imbalances such as poor diet etc, yes all contribute to the mood, but the root cause of our emotions are our thoughts and attitudes.. everything else is just parts of the system.
Im hope im not sounding confusing.
I am trying not to be biased , based on my own personal experience, however there are many many others who will agree with this theory and the very fact that so many are trying to kick the a/d world says something.
Again if A/d are so helpful ... I ask how come so many are still depressed and anxious..I believe the war against mood disorders etc. is being fought with the wrong tools..
If one believes they are mentally depressed they will be... if one believes they are a vicim of depression, they will be.. I choose to NOT be on my a/d .. I have been struggling with this and if there are other ways to be happy , which i believe there are.. then i will take the chance
sorry to ramble
you must believe in your way too I guess.. but for me Im not suffering from side effects just to try to balance the mood.. I never took drugs before this time and managed all my life without so why would i need to now.. I think its just someones theory and I became a guinea pig..
Good luck to you with your struggle..
I know what im doing....Musky
Try not to think that you NEED the lexapro.. thats where we all get stuck here...
>
> Mind over matter?
>
> > I think the real key to get drug free is to not believe in the drug... period...
>
> It is wonderful that this approach has worked for you.
>
> > I know you may have life issues but we all do
>
> No one would dispute this.
>
> > and must learn somehow to deal with on our own..
>
> Or with the help of others.
>
> > that is what will make us strong..
>
> > NOT the drug.. just our mind.
>
> The state of the mind is dependent on the state of the brain. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with yours. The same cannot be said for everyone who suffers from MDD.
>
> I believe that a sizeable percentage of people who are clinically depressed need a biological intervention. I believe that this is true as passionately as you believe that it is not. I guess each of us has acquired a bias based on our own personal experiences.
>
> Not all depressions are biological. Not all depressions are psychological. I try not to speak for everyone.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by musky on April 12, 2006, at 1:44:46
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by jules354 on April 11, 2006, at 7:30:11
> Hey there all
Good to hear some of you are feeling better
myself i too have had some mood dips, but I am just hangin on.. some days im scared, but then other days i am determined to kick this remeronI am continuing to build up my little safety pack of things to carry me through.
I still feel and believe that meds is not the way.
i cannot speak for others , but it looks like alot of yu do feel the samemy itchy scalp has been greatly improved for now about 3 weeks.. I bothered me for months during the first half of tapering... now just my eyes get itchy off and on or i get this strange rash. it comes and goes now , where before it was always present(when first tapering).
I have been under a little more stress and have felt a bit overwhelmed, dont know if its withdrawls or just my attitude.. I think its my w/d.
kinda down today,, but hey it has passed beforemusky
hey everyone,
>
> just wanted to see how folks are doing. my mood has been dipping again but i'm not sure if it's the w/d or just life's triggers.
>
> take care,
> jules
Posted by musky on April 12, 2006, at 1:48:04
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by cashy72 on April 11, 2006, at 8:05:48
>way to go cash72 in being off the lexapro.. just keep reminding your self that every day you are off the drug.. you are letting your body get well.
keep up with exercise, thats what i am doing. even today i was soo tired and down but I Made myself workout.. I felt better aftewards and had a good nap this afternoon.drink lots of water
take care
MuskyHey Jules, yeah i've been feeling abit low the last day or two? Not sure if it's just how things are, or what? Might hit the gym later and try and pick myself up! Mind you the weather at the mo ain't helping things!
> Still off the lexapro. 18 days now, so far so good... Still taking 30mg mirtazpine at nighttime... shall see how it goes the next few weeks.... Keep Smilin',
> Cashy72.
Posted by jules354 on April 12, 2006, at 12:04:32
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on April 12, 2006, at 1:48:04
hello everyone, the last few days have been REALLY hard (very depressed, anxious, irritable, hating everyone and myself) but i feel like i'm coming out of it a bit...i hope!!
yes to the exercise. i've been making myself do it religiously and it makes such a difference. eating lots of good food, too. i'll pay more attention to the water musky. smiles back to you Cashy72.
does anyone know for sure how long this w/d could last? musky i think you said once up to a year?? gosh.
hang in and take care.
jules
Posted by SLS on April 12, 2006, at 16:03:41
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on April 12, 2006, at 1:36:32
MDD is the acronym most often used in medical literature to indicate Major Depressive Disorder.
Consider yourself fortunate that you can so easily regulate your affect and cognition.
This isn't really the venue for a debate regarding the phenomenology of depression.
The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the brain.
That pretty much sums up psychobiology.
I hope you continue to have success maintaining your mental health.
- Scott
Posted by musky on April 13, 2006, at 1:11:40
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by jules354 on April 12, 2006, at 12:04:32
> Hey jules:
Yes I have read up to one year and not to sound even more depressing , but my acupuncturist says even 18months for the body to balance out again.
A friend of mine was on a/d for years and she told me that she didnt feel herself for 2yrs after stopping the meds!
How long you been totally off ? Give it lots of time and dont give in to w/d.
Im still counting down til im off too.
Roughly one month now til Im completely off.Musky
hello everyone, the last few days have been REALLY hard (very depressed, anxious, irritable, hating everyone and myself) but i feel like i'm coming out of it a bit...i hope!!
>
> yes to the exercise. i've been making myself do it religiously and it makes such a difference. eating lots of good food, too. i'll pay more attention to the water musky. smiles back to you Cashy72.
>
> does anyone know for sure how long this w/d could last? musky i think you said once up to a year?? gosh.
>
> hang in and take care.
> jules
Posted by musky on April 13, 2006, at 1:37:08
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » musky, posted by SLS on April 12, 2006, at 16:03:41
>Thanks for your input again, but it seems that they are always giving something a name of some sort.. so many disorders.. I feel we are Over diagnosed.
As for the brain , it is made up of neuronal cells which then have receptors which participate in the communication of the cells (very roughly speaking). Thoughts are just chemical reactions and energy , but we get our thoughts from within our minds. Every thing that goes on in the brain is a chemical reaction, just like the rest of the body.. But the tricky part is how much is controlled and how much is random or involuntary.
From what i have researched we dont give enough credit to mind over matter issues.
Even Cancer patients can literally disolve the tumor by pure positive thinking and visulization techniques.
Not to say everyone can cure themselves, that wouldnt be totally realistic. But we most certainly can play a huge role in recovery and healing on our own.
For example if someone tells you often enough as a child that you are stupid,, you will eventually believe it... just like praising a child will give them self confidence.. again its all in the way we think... therefore I think the same theory applies to someone who is constantly told that they "need meds to stay well" and have MDD , then they will too believe it both conciously and subconciously.
Dont get me wrong I am not saying there is no such thing as depression and anxiety,, these truly are real conditions.. the question is how do we treat effectively and safely.. to me treating and getting at the root cause are two different things.
Our doctors in Western medicine are real good at just treating the symptoms ,, not the cause..
We need to treat the whole being not just a part.
We are a human body , not just a brain, or other part.
I think that if we are physically , spirtually and emotionally well, then we are balanced.
so many times i hear people saying there depresssed because of this or that etc. etc.
What I think we need to do is to NOT make excuses for why we are depressed.. We need to change how we react to our life's issues .
Just as an alcoholic has every excuse in the book to justify a drink,, we tend to fall into this trap when we beat up on ourselves saying.. im depressed , im depressed. INstead of saying something like.. im depressed but so what,, its just thoughts and I can uncreate them just as easily as i create them.
If we believe that we have no control of our brain,, then we make the trap for ourselves and become Victims of mental illness.
We fill ourselves with self pity which will keep us stuck in this mood.
So I think we need to just get tough on ourselves , and yes I know its easier said than done.
I too have and still get this way , but I am learning to OVERCOME my anxiety or depressive state with changing my attitude.
My own personal experience with meds is that they caused a depressive state in me and more anxiety.
Because before i ever took any of these drugs I never ever experienced depression,wierd thoughts , panic attacks, etc.
So this is all I have to go on... and all along I have never felt myself on this drug or others for that matter.Sorry to ramble yet again.. Im trying not to be biased, and from all the postings i have read.. no one seems to be happy on these meds.. and why take something we know so little about? really
Good luck with your fight as well.
Are you still on Remeron?
Musky
MDD is the acronym most often used in medical literature to indicate Major Depressive Disorder.
>
> Consider yourself fortunate that you can so easily regulate your affect and cognition.
>
> This isn't really the venue for a debate regarding the phenomenology of depression.
>
> The brain determines the mind as the mind sculpts the brain.
>
> That pretty much sums up psychobiology.
>
> I hope you continue to have success maintaining your mental health.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by anahata31 on April 14, 2006, at 10:44:36
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by musky on February 22, 2006, at 19:51:26
Hi there! It's great to find this thread.
I've been on 7.5 mg Remeron for 9 months - I've been an anxious insomniac for pretty much all my life, and never cared much for food, but Remeron changed me. I've never touched antidepressants before, but have tried so many different sleeping pills, leading to a benzo addiction that lasted a few years. My doctor prescribed me low-dose Remeron to help me sleep, and quit using benzodiazepines. Well, it worked. The sleep is good, and my appetite is good (gained 10 pounds in 9 months, but have to be careful of what I eat, which is a change for me).
But I've also noticed a change in my personality -- I wouldn't say I am less anxious, or more tired, it's just a general sense of "who cares", a numbness that makes me just less fun to be around, less talkative, less enthusiastic about interaction with others. So I decided to stop, a few months ago, slowly tapering down to 3 mg, then off... And it was awful, flu-like symptoms, nausea, and complete insomnia. So here I am again, back on 7.5 mg, hoping to gather the courage to stop for good.
I want to be my old enthusiastic self again, and I want to be off Remeron so bad, but the one thing that holds me back is the insomnia...Despite all the side-effects of this drug, I have found a quality of sleep that I never had before (though it isn't as good as during the first few months on it), and it causes me sadness and distress to leave that weird, deep, vivid Remeron sleep behind, especially since I don't want to touch sleeping pills ever again.
So, I don't know...I know what I have to do, yet it kind of scares me, and it's good to read about other people's experience.
Thanks!
Nathalie
Posted by jules354 on April 15, 2006, at 21:03:25
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by anahata31 on April 14, 2006, at 10:44:36
hi nathalie, i do miss that dreamy deep rem(eron) sleep too after going of it totally almost 6wks ago now. and i also liked that it gave me an appetite (tho didn't always love the weight i gained). i miss that too. i enjoyed food a lot on it. i don't think i really felt like it changed my personality but my mood has been definitely different since i stopped taking it - and i'm curious to see how things will even out eventually.
what does your dr say about the personality thing? it's pretty common on ad's, right? i mean for people to feel not themselves on them.
you probably know this but the side effects of withdrawal aren't necessarily a reason to stay on remeron...if you feel like you could ride out the withdrawal, feel like your old self and not have problems w/ sleeping...but i guess it's a balance, deciding whether the sacrifices are worth the benefits of the drug.
sorry i'm just thinking out loud. i'm sure you've thought about all this quite a lot!
take care,
jules
Posted by johnnyj on April 16, 2006, at 21:49:42
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by anahata31 on April 14, 2006, at 10:44:36
Hello, thank you for posting your experiences on remeron.
Do you think remeron is better than a sleeping pill? I am on the same 7.5mg dose as you. I will start to wean off in a week or so. Not sure if I should quit cold turkey or taper. The reason being is remeron is more sedating at lower doese so I wonder if the "sponge brain" stuff will be worse? Don't know for sure what to do.
I will have some sleep meds for a back up when I go off. All I know is this med numbs me too. For example, if I drop something like a piece of paper on the floor at work I just don't want to pick it up. I just don't care. Today, was not good for me as I just felt bland. I can't stay like this as it is not a way to live but do I need another drug? I hope not as I want to kick the habit and be done with it. I tried once before to get off and the nausea was terrible and insomnia. I hope to do better this time.
johnnyj
Posted by cashy72 on April 17, 2006, at 4:33:24
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » anahata31, posted by johnnyj on April 16, 2006, at 21:49:42
Yeah i know how you feel Johnny... I'm on 30mg of Mirtazapine, and am wanting too kick it. What would you do first as a lowering of the dose, drop it too 15mg for a month or two? Would be great too find out how you reduced youe meds. i'm 3 weeks off lexapro, and quit, 'cold-turkey' style, off 15mg and the withdrawal symptoms were bad, but manageable for about 10-12 days, they've all but gone now. I'm consious not too stop the mirtazp' too quickly. What do ou reckon?
Cheers for now. Cashy72
Posted by anahata31 on April 17, 2006, at 11:28:21
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » anahata31, posted by johnnyj on April 16, 2006, at 21:49:42
Hi Johnny
> Do you think remeron is better than a sleeping pill? I am on the same 7.5mg dose as you. I will start to wean off in a week or so. Not sure if I should quit cold turkey or taper. The reason being is remeron is more sedating at lower doese so I wonder if the "sponge brain" stuff will be worse? Don't know for sure what to do.
For me, Remeron was better than any other sleeping pills, and I tried many of them. Restoril 30 mg helped me sleep for a while, but tolerance builded up pretty fast, and then it was really hard to stop. My doctor thought that low-dose remeron would help me make the transition, and also give me back my appetite. It did, and I never slept this good, with no need to up the dose. But the "sponge-brain stuff", as you said, is the side-effect I don't want to deal with anymore.
I've been lowering my dose for the last few days, down to about 3 mg. I still sleep well, and I don't feel any more sedated during the day than on 7.5 mg, but I know that remeron has a long half-life, so I have to wait and see... I believe that at such a low dose (my pharmacist says that it's pretty much homeopathic at this point, but for me it sure ain't), the sedation doesn't increase, as it does from going to 30 mg to 15 mg. I plan to stay on 3 mg for another 2 weeks, then off it entirely.
> I will have some sleep meds for a back up when I go off.
I think this is a good idea - but I suggest staying away from benzodiazepines, as tolerance builds up fast, and they are hard to kick off. Zopiclone (imovane, etc) may work for you, but it didn't help me much. And over-the-counter medicine like nyquil make me feel incredibly restless, but a lot of people find it useful to help them sleep.
Jules said - and thanks for your post -
>i don't think i really felt like it changed my personality but my >mood has been definitely different since i stopped taking it - >and i'm curious to see how things will even out eventually.I wish you the best of luck... which changes did you notice in your mood that you found the hardest to manage? So far, my mood is good, as I find some sort of natural high from my decision to bite the bullet, so to speak. Also, I've been doing a lot of walking, dancing, reading, and I find it helps a lot. A side-effect of remeron that I am happy about, and that I know will stay with me even after I stop, is that I used to be non-interested in food and quite picky, but I got into many new foods and recipes while my appetite was at an all-time high, and I plan to continue making healthy food choices, which I am certain will help dealing with withdrawal symptoms. Also, I will try to always keep in mind a very simple thing, but to me the most important one : the nausea, the insomnia, all of these symptoms, they WILL improve, day after day.
Sorry if my english is a bit shaky at times! and best wishes.
Nathalie
Posted by johnnyj on April 17, 2006, at 15:03:51
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates?, posted by cashy72 on April 17, 2006, at 4:33:24
Personally, I would let yourself become more stable before reducing the remeron. After your withdrawal effects from lex I would wait a few more weeks to let things heal inside a little more. Just my opinion though.
I found going from 30 to 15 without much withdrawal from remeron. 15 to 7.5 was not too bad, but when I quit and then gave in after 10 days I felt much much worse on remeron. Ever since the 7.5 has been up and down. Things come and go. I believe it is the sedating aspect of remeron on the lower doses and that is what is making me feel depressed. That deep brain throb is terrible. Now, I think I probably will wean down to 3 or 3.75 and see what happens. If side effects like the heavy head are terrible past two weeks I think I may just dump it to 0 and try to gut it out.
Posted by pinkeetoz on April 17, 2006, at 15:39:25
In reply to Re: mirtazapine/remeron updates? » cashy72, posted by johnnyj on April 17, 2006, at 15:03:51
Hi guys, haven't posted in a while. Totally done with remeron. Still doing the lexapro at 20mg daily and have been for the last three weeks. I feel like the lexapro is doing nothing. I am still on klonopin (benzo). It stops the anxiety, but, I can't help but wonder if it's causing my severe depression. Wouldn't it seem that the lexapro should have kicked in by now? Good luck guys, pinkeetoz
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