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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Racer on October 9, 2006, at 21:43:14
In reply to I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by Rjlockhart on October 9, 2006, at 20:32:12
>
>
> I dont know, im scared.You should be scared Matt. That's the smartest thing you've said about this subject.
>
> I need to make a descion, is it off to boot camp, and to iraq,Why? Is the offer about to expire? The army is going to stop taking new recruits?
Matt, you don't have to make a decision to join the armed forces. You have until you are over 30 -- if that's what you decide to do.
> I really reconsidering. But it will defintly tear my *ss off and make a better one.
>
> MattHow do you figure? Maybe it'll tear your @$$ off -- but leave you living in the VA psych ward for the rest of your very long life? Have you looked around at veterans of some of our wars, Matt? Do you see the Viet Nam vets out there? Do you think the armed forces "tore their @$$es off and made them better?"
Matt -- as long as you look at unrealistic escapes instead of trying to optimize reality, you're going to have trouble.
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2006, at 21:43:14
In reply to Re: How about a mental exercise?, posted by Rjlockhart on October 9, 2006, at 20:28:09
Matt see the social worker at school and you do have a therapist and pdoc. Let them be the ones to tell you Mom that you need some space. And tell them to only prescribe enough at a time that you can't abuse the med. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on October 9, 2006, at 21:43:15
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class » Rjlockhart, posted by Racer on October 9, 2006, at 21:00:09
Matt my Son lost his eyesight in Desert Storm and two fingertips. Will never drive again. Or be able to get a job he wants. And the military will only give you college for jobs that you can do in his case if he's unable to see even to walk. Not a pretty sight the guys I saw at Walter Reed with missing limbs and half their head blown off. Yes Matt it's real. Love Phillipa
Posted by notfred on October 9, 2006, at 22:11:08
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class » Rjlockhart, posted by Racer on October 9, 2006, at 21:00:09
> Matt -- as long as you look at unrealistic escapes instead of trying to optimize reality, you're going to have trouble.
Matt, don't fall into the trap creating a new reality just like the old one. Moving from
one drama to the next. The Marines will tell you what to do and when to do it and you do it. (Just like mom) What happens if they decide which meds you can and cannot take (no Dex, benzos) or that you cannot take any at all ? Keep in mind you **give up** many of your basic rights you have as a citizen when you join the military.You are living in an extreme situation, the solution does not need to be an extreme one.
Posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 10:34:52
In reply to Re: Where do i go from here.......im in a pitt, posted by Triolian on October 9, 2006, at 19:06:59
> You want to join the military in the midst of an insane war ???? Forget about the military. They'll only compound your problems. First step - somehow, get away from your mother. Time to cut the apron strings.
And "insane war" could get worse, don't forget Iran and North Korea. And Darfur. And Syria.
Posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 10:41:43
In reply to Should i join the Army or Marnies to get out?, posted by Rjlockhart on October 2, 2006, at 18:49:29
So no dorms at school- but surely there might be someone looking for a roomate? Would that really be worse than living with your mom? Maybe you'd find someone who wasn't even home much- or perhaps a group of people, so that you can stay more by yourself while they do their thing. Say you are studying, say you are looking to room with someone "quiet". Check the bulletin boards...Or what about a relative? You mentioned you are a Christian- I think some denominations have group living situations for young people near all kinds of colleges? Plausabley even near a community college? Or if there is a 4 year school anywhere near you, maybe there? I bet you don't have to attend THAT school to live on it's campus.Talking to the social worker sounds like a real good idea, too. I hope you are able to do so soon.
You are not a minor. I find it outrageous then, that your mom is editing the medications your physician prescribes for you.
Hang in there- good luck.
Laima
Posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 10:58:22
In reply to Re: How about a mental exercise?, posted by Rjlockhart on October 9, 2006, at 20:28:09
In a way that may be hard to believe, it sounds like your mom really does care for you and is doing all she can for you in a way she thinks is best for you. Actually, seems like she REALLY cares a lot. You and many of us here disagree with her methods-but it's not like she threw you out on the street at age 16 to fend for yourself.Yes, this separation age can be tough. She might be a bit freaking out herself about you growing up and needing to move on. I think that's a common human drama, but those dramas often get resolved a few years down the road when the separtation is more complete. It's almost a cliche, how common it is for a 18, 19, 20 year old to have an explosive and nasty-ish relationship with parents, who might not be ready to accept their little baby is no longer a baby-hardly one! It reminds them of time passing, and maybe they are confused about how to adjust to the new reality. "Empty nest"... Then so often it all ends up resolving later. That's how it was for me, and I heard that same story from many people. I hope you find that hopeful. Needing to separate doesn't mean you don't love your mom or are being in any way unfair or mean to her. One day, she can beam with pride at what a self-sufficient and brave man you've become, and know this separation was right.
Perhaps anyone has ideas on ways you can let your mom know you care about her and respect her, BUT you need to become independent?
Perhaps even letting her know that thanks to her wonderful guidance, you feel enabled to take steps x,y,z, or something like that? That you are keenly interested in her own drug experiences, and will always keep it in mind and learned from her? Will head her warnings, and not repeat the same mistakes, or something like that? Something, to help her feel validated and valued? Just a thought. Maybe that would soothe her nerves while also making things easier for you.
Best wishes.
> She hates psychobabble, becasue she thinks this is a drug website, she has reacted to many posts that where helpful and said dont ever post back again.
>
> I feel im, im superstitious, i love my mom, i dont want to hurt her but, i dont want this to back fire on me, im praying to god to do something, but im going to have to take action. What is best for me now, i need to break the chains.
Posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 11:01:19
In reply to Re: Excuse me for butting in....no offence intended. » ronaldo, posted by Karen44 on October 7, 2006, at 14:19:38
There is an article in one of the recent newsweeklies, in fact, about the incredibley intense post-traumatic stress ex-military people are struggeling with. And these were people who went in "mentally well". Sorry- I saw the mag at a doctor's office and don't remember which one- but very recent.
basic training was hell. When I went into the Marine Corps in 1964, we lost one-third of our platoon in basic training, either to suicide attempts or for medical reasons. It is no place for someone who is on psychotropic medications and has significant emotional problems. For me, my problems came later.
>
> Karen
Posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 11:11:29
In reply to Re: Excuse me for butting in....no offence intended. » ronaldo, posted by Karen44 on October 7, 2006, at 14:19:38
Actually! I just remembered some good advice I got from a brilliant therapist who I saw during college. My mom was nagging me about 10 bazillion things that I was doing wrong, constantly. I used to argue back. This therapist sugested I try to diffuse and "turn her off" nicely, like this:Mom: Remember! No drugs or promiscuity! You are there to study! Study! What are we paying for?? No fooling around! Are you eating enough? Are you wearing enough makeup! You look too pale to me. Remember, you are not there to socialize! Stay away from drugs! Stay away from those hippies and punks! (etc.)
Me, before: Shut up, I know what I am doing, you have no idea what it is like, I can do what I want (etc.)
Me after: Oh, hmm. Yes, hmm, very interesting, hmm. (etc.)
The "after" effect was that before long, mom felt ridiculous, failed to get any argument or heat going, and the "conversations" fizzled into something much calmer and benign.
Posted by Jost on October 10, 2006, at 11:40:58
In reply to I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by Rjlockhart on October 9, 2006, at 20:32:12
Maybe enlisting would be the right thing, Matt. You should follow up on it.
My father said he never would have left home if it hadn't been for the army. So it can create a distance, and help you separate and become much more independent. It also gives you training and skills, and many other good things.
In lots of ways, it has what you're looking for, so I say you should give it a try.
Jost
Posted by Racer on October 10, 2006, at 15:12:28
In reply to Re: How about a mental exercise? » Rjlockhart, posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 10:58:22
>
> In a way that may be hard to believe, it sounds like your mom really does care for you and is doing all she can for you in a way she thinks is best for you. Actually, seems like she REALLY cares a lot. You and many of us here disagree with her methods-but it's not like she threw you out on the street at age 16 to fend for yourself.
>I don't know why, but that paragraph reminded me of something different: a manager at my husband's job. They had a lot of conflict around a couple of areas -- mostly my husband's working hours.
My husband is one of those who goes into work late -- and then stays late, works from home in the evenings and on weekends, etc. This manager insisted that my husband get to work by a specific time. The harder this manager pushed for my husband to get to work at this arbitrary time, the more my husband balked, resisted, got sulky, etc. I'm not sure it affected his job performance, which was always excellent, but it sure affected his attitude about this manager. There was a definite adversarial stance involved by the end of this period.
The next manager in the department, though, never said a word about what time my husband showed up. Things went back to normal: relaxed, good attitude, etc. And the stellar output continued.
It's similar in horse training. Horses outweigh humans, on average. (That sounds so obvious, doesn't it? But the first thing I always told beginning students was, "First rule of horses: they're bigger than we are." For some reason, people seem to forget that...) There's really no way to manhandle a horse into doing anything. Training has to be done in a way that you don't get into a battle you're bound to lose -- losing is a Very Bad Thing, with horses. In a lot of situations with horses, the minute you hit that resistance, you change what you're doing. It's not giving in, it's redirecting energies.
Here's an example: you've heard the expression "taking the bit between the teeth?" Sometimes if you pull back on the reins, a horse will pull against you -- and you get into a tug of war, which the horse is bound to win. (If you don't understand why, see above. A horse's head and neck weigh about as much as a human's entire body -- the average horse can pull the average human out of the saddle with the reins.) So, when the horse starts to pull on your hands, you have to drop the pressure on the reins -- then he has nothing to pull on. At that point, you've basically already won.
All of this relates to Matt's situation in that I think Matt and his mother are in a sort of psychological tug of war. One of them has to let go in order to end it.
Right now, Matt, I think there's very little chance of your mother being the one to let go. Laima's advice -- to stop engaging in the conflict -- is excellent. Stop trying to pull on the reins when your mother takes the bit in her teeth. Redirect your energies, and she will relax some of her pressure, too, since she has nothing to pull against.
Hope that helps. (Hope it makes any sense at all -- I can get a little too technical at times talking about horses...)
Posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 16:46:05
In reply to How about a mental exercise? » Rjlockhart, posted by Racer on October 9, 2006, at 19:29:12
Racer said
<The best you can do is change your reactions to her, and that's something you can do.>
This is very good advice, I think; but yes, it could be difficult, so maybe make it a goal to work on and to discuss w/ a therapist as what U want to get out of therapy.
This could be 'the change' UR looking for.
Remember you can 'not react', but 'act' in dealing w/ your mother. If U are 'lost for words', go to your private space in the home and put in some ear plugs and do whatever U need to do 'not to react'. I know it's very hard to change our 'dance w/ a toxic partner', especially when we care for them, but 4 your sake, (and actually hers as well) stop the dance. Make it your goal and elicit the assistance of your P, therapist, friend, us.
I am 'stuck in fear' in my life right now, literally 'stuck', and fearful about not moving forward. I get uncomfortable if I don't feeling 'I'm exceling or out there making a difference'.
I just read something about fear.
It can be a good thing. It inspires us to look at our life and opportunities, and it doesn't necessarily mean 'Oh no! Things are bad! I've gotta' do something about it right now!'
It can also inspire us to take a look at what we 'do have' and make the choice to choose 'it'.
I'm sorry you are feeling so confused and it's so uncomfortable. I hope you find 'some peace' this day.
cf
Posted by laima on October 10, 2006, at 22:08:59
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class » Rjlockhart, posted by Jost on October 10, 2006, at 11:40:58
How was your mental state when you joined? I think a concern people have is that it would be a stressful commitment which might exasperate Matt's anxieties and such. Just wondering, repectfully, what you think of all those comments, what thoughts you have about them-especially the ones from people who served? And a concern I have is- what if Matt joins and then uh-oh- stuck?
> Maybe enlisting would be the right thing, Matt. You should follow up on it.
>
> My father said he never would have left home if it hadn't been for the army. So it can create a distance, and help you separate and become much more independent. It also gives you training and skills, and many other good things.
>
> In lots of ways, it has what you're looking for, so I say you should give it a try.
>
> Jost
Posted by Karen44 on October 10, 2006, at 23:05:06
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class » Rjlockhart, posted by Jost on October 10, 2006, at 11:40:58
> Maybe enlisting would be the right thing, Matt. You should follow up on it.
>
> My father said he never would have left home if it hadn't been for the army. So it can create a distance, and help you separate and become much more independent. It also gives you training and skills, and many other good things.
>
> In lots of ways, it has what you're looking for, so I say you should give it a try.
>
> JostAre you nuts, Jost, encouraging this stupidity on Matt's part. I am beginning to wonder if Matt isn't as nuts as his mother thinks. He has been told ad nauseum that the military won't take him. From what I have seen of his posts, he would never make it through basic training in any branch of the military. Plus, I sure would not want to serve with him in a combat zone. I would not be able to depend on him to "keep his head." I am saying this as an ex-Marine.
GEES Matt, give it up about the military. This sounds like some suicide wish, and this is from the ex-Marine, now psychologist.
Karen44
Posted by Dinah on October 11, 2006, at 10:14:08
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by Karen44 on October 10, 2006, at 23:05:06
> Are you nuts, Jost, encouraging this stupidity on Matt's part. I am beginning to wonder if Matt isn't as nuts as his mother thinks.
Hi Karen. I appreciate that you are trying to help Matt from your informed perspective as a former Marine. But I'm going to have to ask you to please be careful to follow the civility guidelines of the site while doing so. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Jost on October 11, 2006, at 22:29:59
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by Karen44 on October 10, 2006, at 23:05:06
Hi, Karen44.
I don't know Matt. Maybe others here know him IRL.
My personal opinion of what Matt should do wasn't what I was giving.
I observe that many people don't seem (to me, I may be wrong on this) to think he can consider this, investigate it, and come to reasonable, right conclusions on his own.
I'd like him to try. That's what I'm encouraging. That if he thinks the Army or even the Marines has something to offer him, he look into it. See what it's about, what it involves, go through a process of exploration, reflection, judgment.
Not let all of us talk him into or out of something-- but let him go forward, and perhaps discuss some of his findings with us, look for more concrete, specific responses.
That's all. I'm only saying: look it's not the craziest idea I've ever heard. It has worked for some people (ie my father) in the way you, Matt, are imagining and wanting it to work for you.
I'd like Matt to know that this phantasy of his isn't completely off=base, that some of what he's looking for is what someone might get from the Military.
Whether he could get that-- or would be hurt badly by the experience-- I have enough faith in him to think he could understand. He seems to realize that there are signficant reasons why it might be the wrong way-- yet be attracted and need to follow it out--I want to give him the respect of acknowledging the desire, which he can pursue without feeling foolish, or absurd for having the general idea. And which he can decide about on his own.
I reserve the right to do all I can later, if it seems like a very bad idea. But I reserve the right, right now, to trust that Matt can figure it out, too-- until then.
That's all I was saying.
Jost
Posted by Jost on October 11, 2006, at 22:35:33
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by Karen44 on October 10, 2006, at 23:05:06
What I meant by "try"-- was not run down and join asap-- but--
look into it further. Try it on for size mentally and through talking to a recruitment person, other exmarines or soldiers, etc. Doing concrete things to get a process going-- not of enlisting, but examining real options. Taking the interest seriously, and being responsible about/for it--
Since Matt seems to be very interested and conflicted about the idea.
Go further with it-- Not enlist tomorrow.
Maybe I wasn't clear about the kind of "try" I meant.
Jost
Posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 1:10:01
In reply to Re: PS » Karen44, posted by Jost on October 11, 2006, at 22:35:33
Posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 1:15:42
In reply to Re: PS » Karen44, posted by Jost on October 11, 2006, at 22:35:33
Matt,
What I'm getting from your posts about this subject isn't that you're passionate about joining the armed forces. Rather, it seems as though you're looking for a way to get out of your mother's house -- at least for a while. Moving out while trying to go to school might not be feasible for you right now, but there are alternatives out there for you.
One that comes to mind is City Year, which is part of Americorps -- sort of domestic Peace Corps. I don't know much about it, although I did have some involvement tangentially through a non-profit I worked for some years back. What I remember, though, is that at the end of your year's service, you get a grant for school. As I recall, it wasn't a big grant -- at least, it would have paid for about half a degree at the state colleges around here. Probably more than that elsewhere, since California state colleges are amongst the most expensive in the nation. Still -- something is better than nothing, right? You work for a year, with other people your own age, in a community that might be more interesting to you than where you are now, doing something which will provide the satisfaction of knowing you're helping others, contributing to society, etc.
Think about it. The website is http://www.cityyear.org/
Posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 12:04:49
In reply to And an idea of my own..., posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 1:15:42
Matt, perhaps-- Racer's program, or others like it, which I'm sure exist-- would be your answer.
There are programs where you can get training, while being employed in public service-- which alone can give you a sense of the value of what you offer-- and take you away from your home.
You can be in an environment with friends and adults who have more sense and balance than it sounds that your mother does.
Why don't you look into that-- and the military, if you still feel that a total environment like that is what you need.
Maybe, there are other ideas out there-- which you'll come across when you start looking and talking to more people. People have ideas, they know what's out there-- and maybe you can find the place that fits you.
Jost
Posted by draughn88 on October 12, 2006, at 22:55:01
In reply to Re: And an idea of my own... a great one, too!, posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 12:04:49
thinking about joining the military, too
Posted by Karen44 on October 12, 2006, at 23:21:42
In reply to Please be civil » Karen44, posted by Dinah on October 11, 2006, at 10:14:08
>
> Hi Karen. I appreciate that you are trying to help Matt from your informed perspective as a former Marine. But I'm going to have to ask you to please be careful to follow the civility guidelines of the site while doing so. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
>
> Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. BobDon't worry, Dinah, I won't be posting anymore anyway--too busy with work. Let him try to join the military; he won't get in, and I tried to be nice about it, and that did not work. I am a psychologist, and sometimes folks just need for someone to be blunt about things.
Karen
Posted by draughn88 on October 13, 2006, at 15:39:23
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by Karen44 on October 10, 2006, at 23:05:06
> > Maybe enlisting would be the right thing, Matt. You should follow up on it.
> >
> > My father said he never would have left home if it hadn't been for the army. So it can create a distance, and help you separate and become much more independent. It also gives you training and skills, and many other good things.
> >
> > In lots of ways, it has what you're looking for, so I say you should give it a try.
> >
> > Jost
>
> Are you nuts, Jost, encouraging this stupidity on Matt's part. I am beginning to wonder if Matt isn't as nuts as his mother thinks. He has been told ad nauseum that the military won't take him. From what I have seen of his posts, he would never make it through basic training in any branch of the military. Plus, I sure would not want to serve with him in a combat zone. I would not be able to depend on him to "keep his head." I am saying this as an ex-Marine.
>
> GEES Matt, give it up about the military. This sounds like some suicide wish, and this is from the ex-Marine, now psychologist.
>
> Karen44im new here. matt gave me this site address to visit and to read some of his post. i know him from church and told him that i might join the service next year. man, i cannot believe what i am reading. this is not the matt that i know. after reading all of this, i think that he has a split personality and all of this is just a bunch of lies. this is bad that he has got everyone so wrapped up in here all worried about him. he does like alot of attention tho so i guess this is where he gets it. thanks anyway, i'll navigate around while i'm here.
Posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 20:34:47
In reply to Re: I talked to a Marine today in my class, posted by draughn88 on October 13, 2006, at 15:39:23
Would you ask Matt to e-mail me? He calls me his second Mom Love Phillipa so you see a different Matt? Matt seems very caring and loving to me in his e-mails.
Posted by alesta on October 18, 2006, at 3:10:44
In reply to Should i join the Army or Marnies to get out?, posted by Rjlockhart on October 2, 2006, at 18:49:29
uh matt,
hmm...funny how the things you post about are continually over and over the exact same circumstances that have happened to me previously, and thoughts i have expressed myself...again, uh hmmm. just would like to preserve my image of integrity/authenticity here.
take care, and i do wish you well,
amy
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