Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 701287

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip

Posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

I am just wondering something, I don't know how this came into my head, I should be thinking about and doing so many other things at the moment.

I know we have talked about the positives of babble on the therapy relationship but I wonder if it causes some negatives too.

What I am thinking is maybe since us babblers are so much more informed than a lot of clients, I wonder if the knowlege we have can be used as a resistance as well against our T's.

Like we know a lot about boundry issues and know there are many differences. But I wonder if we knew less about all the technicals like transference, boundries, ethics, and differant therapy models, it would make therapy more effective.
It is almost like we have an inside advantage,which probably works against our T's in a waY. I am wondering even if all the psych classes I am taking is in a way hinding my progress.I just wonder if I knew less about the therapy process, if I would concentrate on the therapy in the room and not on the outside stuff. I am just pondering this, don' t know anything really, my mind had been so mixed up lately. But do any of you think this?
Again I don't plan on stop babbling, and i know the positives of Babble, but I wonder if it does come at a price also.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 14:42:07

In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

I think it's a huge possibility.

One reason I studied therapy extensively, even before I found Babble, is that I didn't want him messing about with my mind in ways I didn't understand. If he was manipulating me, I wanted to know how. (Can we say trust issues?)

I don't know if it harmed my therapy or not. It certainly changed it.

I can't say it did away with the shaman effect. It didn't. I still find therapy magical. But I suppose that it could in some cases.

I think some therapists mind. Mine doesn't. He's kind of amused. But he does some supervision, and he's therapist to therapists, so it's not something he can't handle and he's not easily threatened by information I have or that others have. Sometimes I know more about one thing or another than he does, and he is anxious to hear about it. But of course what he has is experience, and seeing people with similar issues over and over again, and knowing what generally helps and what doesn't. (Except with me of course. I'm a new adventure.)

And actually he seems to think that the insight I get here, coming from a wider range of minds, is superior to the insights he might give me on some occasion or another.

So maybe it depends on both the therapist and the client and how the client uses the information?

Some therapists strongly believe that it dilutes the intensity of the therapy if you process stuff with others instead of them. They want clients to keep their emotions for the therapy room. I can see that viewpoint.

As a voracious devourer of information, I find it hard to believe you can ever know too much about anything. But that's me. I have more sympathy for the viewpoint that you can expend too much emotional capital outside therapy, and end up just reporting the results inside therapy.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll

Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 14:57:13

In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

P.S. I hope I didn't distress you last night. I tried to be completely neutral about different possibilities.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll

Posted by muffled on November 7, 2006, at 15:11:13

In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

> I know we have talked about the positives of babble on the therapy relationship but I wonder if it causes some negatives too.

*I don't doubt that it can be negative. Things can be triggering. The fear of blocking is a prob.
>
> What I am thinking is maybe since us babblers are so much more informed than a lot of clients, I wonder if the knowlege we have can be used as a resistance as well against our T's.

*I don't doubt that some could use it for avoidance. I'd like to think it makes us better informed consumers. I know a friend who I suspect uses intellectualization for distancing purposes...
>
> Like we know a lot about boundry issues and know there are many differences. But I wonder if we knew less about all the technicals like transference, boundries, ethics, and differant therapy models, it would make therapy more effective.

**Not for me. I like to know this stuff. I don't want noone playing games w/me...

> It is almost like we have an inside advantage,which probably works against our T's in a waY. I am wondering even if all the psych classes I am taking is in a way hinding my progress.I just wonder if I knew less about the therapy process, if I would concentrate on the therapy in the room and not on the outside stuff.

**I think its a choice you have to make at each session. What are we going to work on, what do I want to achieve, and try to flow w/it, and not intellectualize it.
I think the intellectualization is an avoidance tool. One of so many we have...

> Again I don't plan on stop babbling, and i know the positives of Babble, but I wonder if it does come at a price also.

**Yup, there's a price. I've paid some. But I have learned ALOT. And for all that I hide from people, I love people. And here I can learn more, and maybe be more useful and understanding of others.
GLAD you not leaving Satin :-) Yaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy!!!!!
Muffled
>

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04

In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

I suppose I should admit I've been known to say things like:

You're normalizing my experience!!! I hate it when you normalize my experience! It makes me feel dismissed!

Yes, yes, I know I hate you to normalize my experience. But there's that exception for when I think I'm going crazy. Normalize!! Normalize!!

Oh for heavens sake. If you're going to give me positive reinforcement, make it subtle. I feel like I should clap my flippers and bark.

Don't just sit there and reflect back what I just said. Please react. Be real.

You're trying to problem solve. I need some unconditional acceptance right now.

Yes, yes. I see it. He's using intermittant rewards with me. It sure is effective, isn't it?

You never push me. Other people's therapist confront them, and you just won't.

I wish you were more like Daisy's therapist. Everyone wants a therapist like Daisy's therapist.

I should add that I do say that sort of thing, but it comes out way more confrontationally in writing than it does in session. In session it's said gently and with a smile, and is usually received in the same spirit it's given. Except maybe the stuff about Daisy's therapist. He seems to be a bit sensitive on that topic.

But most of the time, he just teases me about it. And overall, I think it makes him think and not rely on the tricks of his trade. A therapist ought to be kept on his toes. Keeps him from getting bored.

 

ROFL Dinah!!!! (nm) » Dinah

Posted by muffled on November 7, 2006, at 15:24:57

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah

Posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 15:54:41

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04

LOL Dinah!

I believe you are right about keeping our T's on their toes, and he knows that I do this, but he likes it .
Nothing you said last night hurt me, in fact it made me think A LOT about my own self. I am honored you shared your story with me.
I truly believe in the goodness of Babble, believe me I am soooo glad I found this site, I was just wondering the effects it is having on my therapy.
But I do know that my psych classes give my therapy a new dimension that it never had before. Plus when my professor is one of his friends too. And oh my, I found out that my creative writing teacher next symester is also a friend. It is kinda of freaky or he has A LOT of friends at my school and workout gym. We certainly have a different relationship with all these varitables. But he doesn't know about babble though.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:08:49

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I needed a laugh. I love the way you write -- when you're being funny, as now (although with a serious twist) and when you're being serious. I hope your T appreciates all of you. I know I do.

 

:-) (nm)

Posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 16:57:56

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:08:49

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Daisym on November 7, 2006, at 17:05:30

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 16:08:49

I think the downside can be making comparisons between your therapy and someone else's. I am so jealous when I hear how someone else moved themselves forward, did something brave or got a hug from their therapist. I find myself upset at my therapist because he didn't do the same thing, or didn't say something or did say something! It doesn't happen very often, but it has happened. He reminds me that my therapy is "MY" therapy - and that we are creating it together. He has made certain decisions about his boundaries but he explains why or how he reached these decisions. And we usually learn something when I react to a post.

We talk about the Board a lot, actually. He is interested in what I'm discussing and how it effects me. We've had a number of discussions here about dissipating intense emotions by writing about them, instead of talking about them during sessions. But I think for most people, going 1x per week, the emotions would dissipate anyway. At least by posting, you have feedback, dialogue and a record of what you were feeling. If you can take it with you into sessions, it can be a useful thing. And I think a week can be a long time to wait with all that angst.

The other downside could be keeping Babble a secret from your therapist. Not that you have to give them the actual name of this place (I haven't) but I think you could potentially feel bad about having to keep a secret from the one person you are supposed to be able to be totally honest with.

 

That post made me howl with laughter. (nm) » Dinah

Posted by madeline on November 7, 2006, at 19:17:27

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll

Posted by canadagirl on November 7, 2006, at 19:21:59

In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

>>What I am thinking is maybe since us babblers are so much more informed than a lot of clients, I wonder if the knowlege we have can be used as a resistance as well against our T's.<<

Well this site has been a real eye opener (reading all the stuff that's posted on babble) and I recognize when he's using a "technique" on me (hate that anyway - rolling of eyes here ) or when he's using a typical "therapy phrase" (hate that too. Ugh. I'm too resistant.) I think this type of site makes us more aware as "therapy consumers" , don't you?

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym

Posted by TherapyGirl on November 7, 2006, at 20:55:07

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Daisym on November 7, 2006, at 17:05:30

Interesting point about keeping this place a secret, Daisy. Because for some reason I haven't told my T about it. I had actually thought for the last few days that I would tackle that this week. Not sure why I've waited so long -- I can't imagine she won't be supportive of it. Part of me is afraid that she will come here to check what I'm writing about her. But I know that is from my past and not because I can't trust her.

I actually printed out one of my posts about her to take to her tomorrow and I'm going to try to give it to her and explain how helpful this place has been. All of you have given me the tremendous gift of knowing that my attachment to her is not totally weird.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Lindenblüte on November 7, 2006, at 22:02:20

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 7, 2006, at 15:18:04

Yes, I guess knowing more about their arts does make us both more confident but also more complicated clients.

At least they know that when we agree with them, we are agreeing because we KNOW that they aren't just pulling some b.s. out of their you-know-where's.

I'm going to take this statement, and perhaps make it my voice-mail greeting

"You're trying to problem solve. I need some unconditional acceptance right now."

(Dinah, ...*/babble/psycho, 2006)

With some special emPHAsis on the RiGhT NoW!! bit.

*grin*

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2006, at 23:32:53

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Lindenblüte on November 7, 2006, at 22:02:20

It's like taking classes we're here to learn. To be able to separate the good and bad therapists. Love Phillipa

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Jost on November 8, 2006, at 2:16:18

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Phillipa on November 7, 2006, at 23:32:53

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm thinking if you want to resist and Pbabble is at hand-- you'll use Pbabble. If you've never heard of Pbabble-- you'll come up with something that does the job.

for example:

You sound just like my father! No-- I don't feel like talking about my father.


Or:

(silence....) ...... (piecing stare at the wall)

...

Maybe Pbabble adds a weapon to the arsenal of resistance; but I'm not sure that makes it more--or less-- possible to resist.

Jost

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll

Posted by Fallsfall on November 8, 2006, at 7:46:59

In reply to possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip, posted by SatinDoll on November 7, 2006, at 14:16:58

>I just wonder if I knew less about the therapy process, if I would concentrate on the therapy in the room and not on the outside stuff.

This was definately true with me. I read a ton of Psych books at one time. I have figured out that I did that because I didn't trust my therapist to be smart enough to figure out what to do. I thought I needed to know what was going on, or therapy wouldn't work.

But when I started to trust him, and just be present in the sessions. When I stopped trying to make sure the therapy was doing what I "wanted". This is when the therapy started to work.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » Fallsfall

Posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 9:17:33

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 8, 2006, at 7:46:59

Hi Falls,

I think I need to let go too, and let it happen. I think I also read as much as I could about therapy because I didn't know anything about it and because of trust.

I believe I have learned to trust him and that took a long time, a little trust at a time, and now I trust him completely. But I believe I will always be on guard a little.

Do you think Falls, that your therapy is working better now that you trust him and are using him instead of the books to help you?

I just hope he will still work with me, we were going to start termination at the end of the year with spreading out my apppointment, but now I feel like I probably need to go weekly. It has been almost 2 years and I know he normally doesn't go this long with most of his clients, so I am scared of him leaving me. He once told me that he trusts I will know when time will be right, he said he might push me a little, but the decsion will be mine. He also said I don't have one little clog in single house, he said I have a condo building of many clogs to clear up.
How long did it take you falls before you just let therapy happen? How long have you been with your T? I think I might be ready.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2006, at 10:01:55

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationhip » SatinDoll, posted by Fallsfall on November 8, 2006, at 7:46:59

My experience of just trusting him and expecting him to lead me where I should go is that I get enormously frustrated and so does he.

He doesn't like that at all.

My experience of trusting the therapy and expecting that it will go where it needs to go, is that the therapy drifts.

Maybe it's because he normally does short term therapy and is treading in new waters with me. But he likes me as an active partner who asks for what I want or need.

Which doesn't mean that he does whatever I want or need. He's clear with who he is and what he does. But he wants me to ask anyway. The answer may be no, but he's teaching me it's ok to ask for what you can't get. And that getting a no doesn't mean that you're a terrible person.

I think it really depends a whole lot on the individual client and the individual therapist and what people are working on.

My basic relationship style is to be passive. I don't long for control, I avoid responsibility at all costs. I play the little girl, and ask that someone else take care of me, and while I might whine about how they do it, I don't much really care whether they're great at it or not, as long as they accept responsibility. I stayed in a toxic environment until I was thirty because I *liked* being a daughter.

Maybe he does have a plan. Or maybe he just doesn't like dependent women. Or maybe it's pure dumb luck. For whatever reason, I'm getting better (gasp!). So there are lots of ways to get better. Each person needs to find the "right" way for themselves.

But I'm not sure it's a bad thing to be informed about whether a therapist's behavior is ethical, or assessing whether you're getting better.

I don't think it would come as a shock to anyone to learn that not all therapists are competent, not all are ethical, and certainly not all are the right fit for any given client.

Trust? Sure. But trusting and locking the door anyway isn't a bad thing.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah

Posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 11:31:18

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh, posted by Dinah on November 8, 2006, at 10:01:55

I'd like to add that I think there is a big difference in researching things and Babble. Babble, for me, normalizes things, offers support and things to think about. Researching, for me, is my way of looking for a shortcut. Or a way to channel the freak out of asking one person to hold so much stuff for me.

I love sessions where we debate theory and I figure out how it applies to me or our work. And he never lets me stay there for long -- it is always back to those darn emotions. I think he figure this out about me a long time ago - I have a huge need to intellectually understand things. The down side is that in my angry, stubborn tantrum period I'd resist the technique on purpose. Especially the repeating the last few words that I said (like it was a question) to get me to say more -- I'd start to elaborate and then catch myself and say "right." (Arms folded, glare, glare.)

I'm laughing at how I must have looked. I'm sooo glad no video tapes are allowed in my therapy!

:(

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym

Posted by Dinah on November 8, 2006, at 12:26:58

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 11:31:18

I'm still glad that there's no record of my current therapy. I can be stubborn and unreasonable and whiny and all the less attractive qualities. :)

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym

Posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 13:09:04

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Dinah, posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 11:31:18

Dinah, you said something that sort of resonated with me. That your try to intellectly understand things in therapy, I do that too. But now I feel like okay I know the stuff, heck I am studying in school, but I need to do the actual work now of healing which is an indivdual thing. I have healed a lot during this time, but I need to go deeper I think. Maybe some EMDR.

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll

Posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 19:38:41

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 13:09:04

I'm not criticizing -- I'm asking this in a soft, curious tone -- OK?

Isn't EMDR still employing a "technique"? Isn't it still selecting what you are going to work on, instead of just seeing what comes up?

I'm not taking issue with whether this is a good idea or not. Just that if you want to "sink" into therapy and let it just happen, doesn't EMDR interfere with the spontaneity of that? I know you have to trust a great deal to agree to this technique. But...

Just asking the question...

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym

Posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 19:55:40

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » SatinDoll, posted by Daisym on November 8, 2006, at 19:38:41

I am not sure exactly what you mean, but I will try to explain EMDR.

You do pick a distrubing memories(usually the worst one) and while you are doing the EMDR, it helps with the memory you pick, and it also can take some hidden forgotten or surpressed ones along with it. Or it can (not usually, but it did it for me) bring out a lot worse memory than what you were working on and kept it at the surface. (this is unusal though, out of 300 or so people my T used this on, it only happened to me and one other women. It sort of unlocks your brain and lets you process the memory that is frozen.

So for me allowing him to do EMDR again, with the possiblity of a worse memory coming out, scares me because I did dissociate when during the abuse. (even this is not as common as we think because most people remember bad things that happen to them. ) But with repeated abuse and torture, it can happen especially as a child.

I guess what I was talking about just letting it happen, was letting my T direct and control more of the session instead of me. I think I need to let myself trust him to do his job and let things fall where they do.

I don't know if this is what you are asking, LOL My brain is toast, I am studying for an Abnormal Pysch exam and trying to remember all about personality disorders, eating disorders, sucside, and mood disorder while going through my own problems too. LOL

 

Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh

Posted by Jost on November 8, 2006, at 20:18:15

In reply to Re: possible neg. of babble on the ther. relationh » Daisym, posted by SatinDoll on November 8, 2006, at 19:55:40

Reading helped me a lot.

For one thing, it gave me some hope, when things were extremely difficult. It gave me hope because I saw that certain situations recurred, that therapists had a vocabulary and emotional process and theoretical framework that could encompass, empathize and work with many things that were extremely intense, and even seemed hopeless.

Plus, it gave me a very good idea of what theories were around about the mind, about the therapeutic relationship, and therefore gave me a way of evaluating what different people had to offer, what their world view was likely to be, and whether I felt comfortable in it.

Finally, I never would have found the therapist I have now, because I became aware of different people to interview and to get referrals from. Eventually, I got a referral to the person I see now, whom I never would have known about or tried to see, if I hadn't done that reading.

Reading or knowing how therapy works, IMO, is like anything-- it can be used for or used against yourself-- in or out of the room.

Jost


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