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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 106. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
In reply to Re: I would » Dinah, posted by AuntieMel on June 16, 2006, at 10:34:05
I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.
I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.
And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 16, 2006, at 12:28:41
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
Dinah,
I can't get this out of my head. First of all, this is EXACTLY like being in an abusive marriage only WORSE. He is supposed to be your T. He is supposed to be honest and trustworthy. He is supposed to be helping you get better.
If I'm figuring this right, he has taken $100,000 of your money. Is that right? You said $10,000 a year for 10 years? OH what I could do with $100,000! Think what YOU could have done.
Are you 100% sure it is too late for your husband to move? You BOTH have been lied to. This is so so not right.
Honestly, I'd keep the Sunday appointment just to tell him it was our last. I'd unload all the pent up anger and walk out. Then I'd get on a plane and fly to that spa in South Carolina you wanted to go to!
HUGS,
MidnightBlue
> I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
>
> That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
>
> But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.
>
> I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
>
> I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.
>
> And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
>
> I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
Posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 12:57:46
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
>Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
We will help you. You can do this.
((((((((((Dinah))))))))))
Even if this wasn't intentional on his part, even if he couldn't have told you earlier, the point is that you need stable therapy and he isn't giving you either stability nor therapy.
We will help you. You can do this.
Falls.
Posted by All Done on June 16, 2006, at 13:14:11
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
(((Dinah))),
My heart is breaking for you. No matter what you decide, though, we will be here for you.
I can only imagine how you're feeling right now and I wish there was more I could do to help. Even if I walked a mile in your shoes, I still wouldn't understand all the intricacies that make you the wonderful you that you are. So, take care of yourself and take the time you need to make the right decision for you.
I'm around, if you need to talk. I promise...no frustration, anger, or judgement.
Hugs,
LaurieP.S. Make sure you give him a few special "Poet cyber slaps on the head" from me, though.
Posted by Jost on June 16, 2006, at 13:16:28
In reply to Re: I would, posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 12:57:46
Hi, Dinah.
I'm somewhat horrified by this turn of events with your T. Not having been on psychobabble very long, I dont' know the history, except the latest part about the struggle about whether to leave where you were. Your relationship with your T was a deciding, if not the deciding, factor, as it seemed.
If that's so, then you have a very deep involvement or dependency on this person, and it sounds as though, whatever his good and helpful or engaging qualities, he is a deeply unreliable person.
That sounds a very problematic combination (your reliance and his unreliability). If he didn't mention being away, or the possiblity of being away (since jobs don't drop out of the sky without someone's at least signing up to be considered, usually), while encouraging you to stay in N.O. to see him regularly, it sounds really unethical to me. Certainly unprofessional. And very very untrustworthy.
How can you stop your relationship in a helpful-to-you way? Just cutting your T off angrily or impulsively, or just half-sticking it out in the hope that you will someday (or even soon) be able to slip away easily both seem unrealistic, and not in your best interest.
At least have a consultation with another T, for a number of sessions. This is not a situation that you should be in alone-- and this T doesn't sound as if he's someone who has the self-awareness or disinterestedness to cope and to help you make a transition to someone who can be a reliable person.
I really feel for you in this.
Jost.
Posted by madeline on June 16, 2006, at 13:55:32
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
Although I completely understand why you are upset, I think you are making too much out of this. All this is is a minor blip in scheduling and that’s probably why he forgot to mention it. It’s not even permanent.
I suspect this is why he didn’t want to influence your decision to move and why he became distant to you during the decision process. If you say that you stayed because of him, that would have put you both in a terrible position. One where he can’t make a mistake without you saying “I stayed here, altered my whole life and you do THIS!” leading to inevitable resentment and disappointment.
Remember, this is just a blip in scheduling, it is not a slap in the face of your decision, which he never wanted to be about him anyway.
Just my two cents.
Posted by happyflower on June 16, 2006, at 14:19:04
In reply to I know I'm in the minority here... » Dinah, posted by madeline on June 16, 2006, at 13:55:32
((((((Dinah)))))) I am so sorry you are hurting so much. Will you still have the permanant once a week therapy? Or is he stoping that too? Is it the 2nd session he is not sure about?
I know you are mad, and you need to direct that right at the source, HIM! But I have convidence that everything will work out for you two. You have been working a long time with him and i am sure he can handle your anger, so let him have it. I am thinking everything will be okay, but I understand you being so mad that you want to terminate. (((((((Dinah)))))
Posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 14:28:17
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
> I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
Oh good grief. So he encouraged you to think that things were returning to normal while he was in the process of lining up this other job? I’m getting in line to give him one of those cyber slaps.
> That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
>
> But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.I won’t be frustrated and angry if you stay with him. I’ll be concerned for you, however. I think it *is* an abuse of your love for him, and he needs to acknowledge that it is extremely serious. At the very least, he ought to promise you that he will do some intensive therapy himself, or go to supervision, or something like that. I think he needs to acknowledge that he must not keep hurting you and he needs to take responsibility for sorting things out in his own head. It shouldn’t be your problem, and yet it has been your problem over and over again.
> I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
I can completely understand that. It would be worse for me too. If he isn’t in a position to make plans three or four evenings ahead, then he can’t expect you to be in a position to drop everything to see him, or to hang around hoping he’ll phone. It wouldn’t be fair in any relationship, and it’s especially unfair in a professional relationship.
> I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.B*stard. It really does sound like a deliberate lie. How could he suggest the uncertainty was over if he didn’t know for sure that he could see you twice a week on a stable schedule? Trying to repair things only works if both parties take responsibility for their part of the relationship. He really needs to make a decision. Can he be the therapist you need him to be? Or can’t he?
> And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
I want to believe that this has been a countertransferential oversight rather than a deliberate lie. I want to believe that he is so committed to being a good therapist to you that he wasn’t able to acknowledge to himself that he was setting you up for another hurt. I want to believe that he genuinely wishes to be the therapist you need and so finds it hard to face his own shortcomings. It’s the best spin I can think to put on it. And it still leaves him lacking in basic professional competence.
> I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
I think there is a very real question about your sense of self worth. If he has hurt you repeatedly and knows it and has promised to make things change, and now has hurt you again, it must be absolutely devastating. It’s the sort of thing that would floor anyone, but for someone with mental health problems it’s unspeakable. He needs to agree to a long term solution and he needs to stick to it. And one thing he needs to do is to make sure that he will be able to provide adequate care for you when he gets other jobs. He can’t expect you to wait for him to return, or to see him one evening in twenty-five. He has a very real responsibility for you and it’s time he got his head around it.
((((((((((Dinah))))))))))
Give him hell.
Posted by Poet on June 16, 2006, at 16:39:17
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
Hi Dinah,
Whatever you decide I won't be angry with you. I wish I could fly down there and really slap him for you.
*I'm Poet, Dinah couldn't make it today. She gave me something to give you though.* A hard punch in the nose. Along with a few choice words regarding his ancestory.
You don't deserve to be treated like this, Dinah, I don't think your T is worthy of someone like you. He should pay you for your time. Damn him. Enough, I'll stop, sorry, this isn't helping you make a decision. I wish I could help you make that decision.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 17:15:17
In reply to Re: I would » Dinah, posted by Poet on June 16, 2006, at 16:39:17
I finally got enough in my system to make a difference.
I guess I'll wait to hear what he has to say.
When he knew about this makes a big difference.
If he didn't know when he talked to us, then he's just being his usual avoidant and inconsiderate self, I guess.
If he did know, I don't know if I can forgive this. He knew that I was only staying for him, and for the chance of things getting back to normal in therapy. We talked about it, and he thought that was an ok reason.
Not that I think it will make a difference. I'm not strong enough to leave him. So I'll keep working at a job that hurts me to pay for my therapist who will also hurt me over and over.
I'm absolutely brilliant aren't I.
I think I acquit him of any ill intent except maybe wanting to protect his income stream. I think Tamar's right. He does want to be a good therapist to me, he overestimates what he can do, and he avoids things that are upsetting to him. And then he looks like my dogs after they've eaten a pen, and have ink all over their paws. Who me? I didn't do anything wrong. Why are you so upset?
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 17:17:07
In reply to Re: I would » Dinah, posted by Poet on June 16, 2006, at 16:39:17
I'll make sure to slap him a few times, Poet. At least verbally. I'll try to keep your posts in mind.
Sigh.
Sometimes I do wish we could all go to someone's session - this time mine.
Posted by fallsfall on June 16, 2006, at 17:36:26
In reply to Re: I would ? Poet, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 17:17:07
Does your cell phone have a speakerphone option?
Posted by frida on June 16, 2006, at 17:52:54
In reply to Re: I would » Dinah, posted by Tamar on June 16, 2006, at 14:28:17
Dear Dinah,
I had tears reading your post and the others'.
He's certainly hurting you a lot :-(
when he should be the one to offer safety, stability, support...He is your therapist! He has a commitment to you...he has a responsibility to you...I think things really have to change because you truly can't and shouldn't take anymore pain, from the person who should be giving you relief, peace and comfort. :-(
I can feel your pain. I'd be devastated and so hurt too..love and support,
Frida> > I think I'll keep the appointment Sunday just to find out when he had an inkling that this would be happening. If it was before 6/5, then I'll know he deliberately misled my husband and I in order to influence us to stay in town. Because I *would* have decided to leave if he hadn't dangled the prospect of things getting back to stable and normal in therapy. And while he was neutral in front of my husband, he was not in general neutral with me.
>
> Oh good grief. So he encouraged you to think that things were returning to normal while he was in the process of lining up this other job? I’m getting in line to give him one of those cyber slaps.
>
> > That should be an unforgiveable breach of trust.
> >
> > But likely it won't be. Most likely I'll stay with him, and you all will be as frustrated and angry with me as people are with wives who stay in abusive situations.
>
> I won’t be frustrated and angry if you stay with him. I’ll be concerned for you, however. I think it *is* an abuse of your love for him, and he needs to acknowledge that it is extremely serious. At the very least, he ought to promise you that he will do some intensive therapy himself, or go to supervision, or something like that. I think he needs to acknowledge that he must not keep hurting you and he needs to take responsibility for sorting things out in his own head. It shouldn’t be your problem, and yet it has been your problem over and over again.
>
> > I hope at least I have the courage to pass on the second session a week. The more I remember how it was the less I want to even try it. He never knew on Sunday if he could see me that week, so he'd tell me he'd call. And he'd forget to call. And I'd assume that was because he couldn't see me. But sometimes it was just because he forgot to call. And of course probably he forgot because he just didn't want to see clients after a stressful day at work. And I understand that. But sitting by my phone week after week wondering if he could see me hurt far worse than just knowing I wouldn't see him.
>
> I can completely understand that. It would be worse for me too. If he isn’t in a position to make plans three or four evenings ahead, then he can’t expect you to be in a position to drop everything to see him, or to hang around hoping he’ll phone. It wouldn’t be fair in any relationship, and it’s especially unfair in a professional relationship.
>
> > I can't believe he didn't tell me. He knows how hard this last eight months has been for me. He knows how he has hurt me over and over and over again. I told him I *wanted* to move if therapy was going to continue to be this way. That I couldn't bear being hurt like that continuously. And he told me it was over. That things would get back to normal. That he hadn't realize it had been so harmful to me but that it was over. That he wouldn't keep hurting me. That he was back to stay and he could see me twice a week on a stable schedule. That we could try to repair things.
>
> B*stard. It really does sound like a deliberate lie. How could he suggest the uncertainty was over if he didn’t know for sure that he could see you twice a week on a stable schedule? Trying to repair things only works if both parties take responsibility for their part of the relationship. He really needs to make a decision. Can he be the therapist you need him to be? Or can’t he?
>
> > And this wasn't long ago either. This was two and three weeks ago. And he didn't tell me the truth until it was too late to move.
>
> I want to believe that this has been a countertransferential oversight rather than a deliberate lie. I want to believe that he is so committed to being a good therapist to you that he wasn’t able to acknowledge to himself that he was setting you up for another hurt. I want to believe that he genuinely wishes to be the therapist you need and so finds it hard to face his own shortcomings. It’s the best spin I can think to put on it. And it still leaves him lacking in basic professional competence.
>
> > I'm inclined to leave my husband and get out of town anyway, at least until this horrible addiction is broken. Because I know that I don't have the strength to stay here and not see him.
>
> I think there is a very real question about your sense of self worth. If he has hurt you repeatedly and knows it and has promised to make things change, and now has hurt you again, it must be absolutely devastating. It’s the sort of thing that would floor anyone, but for someone with mental health problems it’s unspeakable. He needs to agree to a long term solution and he needs to stick to it. And one thing he needs to do is to make sure that he will be able to provide adequate care for you when he gets other jobs. He can’t expect you to wait for him to return, or to see him one evening in twenty-five. He has a very real responsibility for you and it’s time he got his head around it.
>
> ((((((((((Dinah))))))))))
>
> Give him hell.
>
>
Posted by fairywings on June 16, 2006, at 18:35:40
In reply to Re: I would, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 12:01:29
(((((Dinah))))
I think getting out of town, till the attachment subsides is a good idea....if you can do it w/o hurting yourself more. I'm glad you're going on Father's Day.....I hope you're still as angry, and can tell him. He's betrayed your trust big time. I'd be angry, hurt, feel betrayed, want to quit, want to vent my anger, want all my money back. Even if somehow he convinced you to stay with him, this situation will likely damage your relationship beyond repair. I know it would for me.
Let us know how it goes!
fw
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 16, 2006, at 21:04:47
In reply to Thank heavens for Risperdal, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 17:15:17
Dinah,
I hate to even ask this, but can you trust him to actually tell you the truth about what he knew when? I don't think I could trust him....
HUGS,
MidnightBlue
Posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 21:58:23
In reply to Re: Thank heavens for Risperdal » Dinah, posted by MidnightBlue on June 16, 2006, at 21:04:47
Maybe it's just what I need to believe. But I don't think he flat out lies. He may like by avoiding or omitting, but I don't think he'd tell an untruth.
I may be absolutely furious with him, and angry at how I let him hurt me over and over and over again in a way I haven't let anyone hurt me except my mother before I emotionally divorced her. And I might wish I could emotionally divorce him. But I have to confess that I have a hard time thinking of him as an intentionally bad man. A flawed man, certainly. A man who hurts me, yes. A man who is either dense or intentionally blind, yes.
Sigh. I wish I really could hate him. Or at least protect myself from him.
I wonder if I saw the potential for him to hurt me when I made him into my therapist/mommy? If I had some weird compulsion to recreate being hurt by my real mother. No, maybe not. He's flawed in different ways. I probably chose him as my therapist mommy because he was so different than my mother or father or husband. I just didn't realize that that brand of fantasy came with its own pain.
Posted by MidnightBlue on June 16, 2006, at 23:45:11
In reply to Re: Thank heavens for Risperdal » MidnightBlue, posted by Dinah on June 16, 2006, at 21:58:23
((((((((((((((((Dinah))))))))))))))))))
I'm so sorry. So VERY sorry for all your pain.
HUGS,
MidnightBlue
Posted by happyflower on June 17, 2006, at 16:33:26
In reply to Re: Thank heavens for Risperdal » Dinah, posted by MidnightBlue on June 16, 2006, at 23:45:11
Are you nervous about your appointment tomorrow? Do you know what you are going to say to him? I am sure this is on your mind right now, so I hope your Dh can at least support you now.
Well I hope you post about this tomorrow, I will be looking for you. I am hoping it all turns out okay and you will feel better. (((((Dinah))))
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2006, at 17:21:34
In reply to Dinah, how are you tonight?, posted by happyflower on June 17, 2006, at 16:33:26
Thanks Happyflower.
Again, thank heavens for Risperdal. I woke up with very dark thoughts, but a couple of hours after taking my max dose of Risperdal I felt well enough to do some work, and also do some stuff around the house. I just need to make sure I keep taking it regularly at maximum dose.
I know that what I want to do tomorrow is to ask him when he knew. I have planned out in my mind to describe what date I want to know if it was before or after, and how to tell him why it's important for me to know.
I've also practiced telling him why it *is* a big deal. Much bigger this time than when he usually does it. Because even if he had told me last Sunday about it, it wasn't too late to move at all. It was too late to move without a big price tag, but we could have still moved. Now we can't. Our bridges are burned. And if I had known last Sunday I would have tried to make sure we moved. Because the only insurmountable reason for staying was the promise of future stability in therapy.
So I've got it all planned out.
Of course, when I have it all planned out, it all goes terribly wrong. I've already apologized to my husband for ruining his fathers day. He's being pretty nice about it. But he's kind of angry that I'm so upset about not moving, because it makes him feel like he did the wrong thing. Poor man.
Posted by curtm on June 17, 2006, at 17:29:32
In reply to Re: Dinah, how are you tonight? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2006, at 17:21:34
What movie was it where somebody chained this car's axle to a pole or something and when the driver took off it ripped the entire rear end out off the SFB's car? Anyone remeber that? Poet?
Posted by fallsfall on June 17, 2006, at 17:54:42
In reply to Re: Dinah, how are you tonight?, posted by curtm on June 17, 2006, at 17:29:32
American Graffitti. A great movie!
Posted by happyflower on June 17, 2006, at 18:38:17
In reply to Re: Dinah, how are you tonight? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2006, at 17:21:34
What is Risperdal and what does it do? I wonder if I should get something like that?
I knew you would have a plan, so good luck tomrorow. Let us know how it goes, okay. ((((Dinah)))
Posted by wishingstar on June 17, 2006, at 19:31:21
In reply to Sh*t faced B*STARD, posted by Dinah on June 15, 2006, at 19:16:22
Posted by gardenergirl on June 17, 2006, at 20:52:06
In reply to Re: Dinah, how are you tonight? » Dinah, posted by happyflower on June 17, 2006, at 18:38:17
Posted by fairywings on June 17, 2006, at 23:14:23
In reply to Re: Dinah, how are you tonight? » happyflower, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2006, at 17:21:34
I hope your appt goes well, and you can ask him about the dates. Do you have it planned out how you'll respond to various things he might say?
Good luck,
fw
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