![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 103. Go back in thread:
Posted by poet on November 23, 2006, at 12:10:07
In reply to My bulimia and the eating board, posted by Deneb on November 21, 2006, at 20:10:36
Hi Deneb,
This is what bothers me about your posts: you waiver between I am helpless and out of control and it's a miracle I'm cured. It causes me to waiver between *do I think Deneb is trying for attention* and *does Deneb really need help.*
Many of us have suggested you talk to your pdoc about helping you find a therapist. That seems to get ignored with each new post. You posted that you wished you could afford residential treatment. I don't understand how you believe that residential treatment might be what you need when you haven't explored any out patient treatment? You said you wish you could tell your mother. I wish you could tell your pdoc and a therapist what you tell us.
Deneb, I'll be blunt: if it's attention you are seeking, posting that you have an ED or cancer or whatever is not going to help the underlying issues behind needing that attention. I think that is what you need to pay attention to, not get attention for. In other words, explore this need for attention with someone who can offer professional expertise.
I can't really answer your question about bulimia and the eating board, so I'll ask a question of you: what did you learn from your experience posting on that cancer site?
Poet
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 20:12:11
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by poet on November 23, 2006, at 12:10:07
I promised I would if I purged again. I did. I told.
She told me not to eat so much. She told me I'm fat like my Dad and that I should do more exercise. She told me to eat less for dinner. She's telling me to get off the computer right now so I can clean the house and get some exercise.
I asked her not to buy my trigger foods, like chips and cookies. She told me not to eat so much of them.
:-(
I'm not sure what to think.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 20:41:38
In reply to I told my Mom, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 20:12:11
She supports me in my weight loss. Now she knows how important losing weight is for me. She told me she would pay for me to have a gym membership if I want. I'm going to restrict tomorrow and my Mom will probably support me. Maybe with her help I will reach my goals. My pdoc is wrong. I do need to lose weight.
It didn't turn out so scary after all.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:01:17
In reply to Actually, it's good I told my Mom, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 20:41:38
Getting nowhere.
People only getting more upset. I should stop posting here.
My Mom doesn't think having bulimia is a big deal. Don't worry, I will get better despite her.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:30:35
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that... » ElaineM, posted by NikkiT2 on November 23, 2006, at 0:53:42
> Deneb,
>
> I think *alot* of the frustration that people show here, is because advice is given and then seemingly ignored.. I know I have stopped posting to you as I only have so much to give these days, and being, well, bascially ignored when I was offering advice to you was pretty hurtful.I'm sorry Nikki. Thank-you for offering your advice. It's up to me if I want to accept it. I'm not sure why people are so upset that I've chosen not to find a T. I'm not ready for one right now. I don't like seeing a T to change who I am. I don't think there's anything really that wrong with me.
> I think its a responsibility thing. Until you sit up and take responsibility, and say "I willg o and get the help I need" then some people will be feeling worn down, and frustrated with you.
I don't understand why people are so frustrated.
>
> Racer, and I, have mentioned DBT on many occasions.. I really do believe this is something that would benefit you hugely. Your Pdoc diagnosed BPD, but doesn't seem to be offering you any of the spcyhological therapies that have a HUGE evenidence base as helping with BPD. Meds can only help control certain symptoms.. Meds kept me alive long enough to receive decent behavoural therapy and that was all.I don't think my problems are so severe that they need DBT. Also I'm not even sure if there is DBT here. I also don't believe I really have a BPD. I also don't feel like doing the work needed in therapy.
Thanks for trying to help
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:40:14
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that... » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on November 23, 2006, at 9:08:23
> Okay I'm kinda stuck how to say this .... I *feel* hurt when it seems that only Racer's answers and opinions matter. Lots of people read this board and don't write at all too. I guess I just wondered what makes her so important to you.
I'm being immature. It only matters because she chooses to ignore me. I want what I can't have. If you chose to ignore me I would be tearing my hair off trying to get you to not ignore me.
> This is why you MUST find someone with expertise to help you. May I ask you a personal question? Are you against obtaining a therapist, or ED therapist? And if so, why? I just think that if your problem is half as bad as you yourself have described then you NEED someone else.
Not sure. It's scary. I don't like talking about myself. I don't want to change. I want people to accept me the way I am. If I go to therapy it's like admitting there is something wrong with who I am. I think I'm just fine. I don't want to change for anyone. No one can make me get therapy. Everyone can tell me to get therapy, but I can say "No" if I want to. It's up to me and I don't understand why people won't accept my decision.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:46:35
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by poet on November 23, 2006, at 12:10:07
> Hi Deneb,
>
> This is what bothers me about your posts: you waiver between I am helpless and out of control and it's a miracle I'm cured. It causes me to waiver between *do I think Deneb is trying for attention* and *does Deneb really need help.*I need help, and I'm already getting help. I just want people here to comfort me and make me feel better, is that wanting attention? I guess so.
> I can't really answer your question about bulimia and the eating board, so I'll ask a question of you: what did you learn from your experience posting on that cancer site?
>
> PoetI learned that I can't keep posting that I'm doing badly over and over again or else people will start to get really upset with me. I have to learn to suffer in silence.
Deneb*
Posted by ElaineM on November 23, 2006, at 23:06:59
In reply to Re: Actually, scratch that... » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:40:14
>>>>>Not sure. It's scary.
Didn't say it wasn't ;-) Confronting change is always scary. But there's alot of brave people who do every single day.
>>>>>>I don't like talking about myself.
You talk about yourself *here* - what's the difference for you if it's in person? THat might be a big part of uncovering why it seems scary.
>>>>I don't want to change.
I don't believe that. You've posted many many times here how desperate you are about your eating disorder (at least). You've posted alot about wishing you knew how to interact better with people. You posted that you wish you had something to feel worth about. And earlier in this response to me you said that you behave in an immature way. And lately, you've spiralled in destructive disordered behaviour. It doesn't sound like you DON'T want to change. Maybe admitting that you do would be too hard.
>>>>>I want people to accept me the way I am. If I go to therapy it's like admitting there is something wrong with who I am.
NO that's not it at all. Not "wrong with who you are", "wrong with what you do". You've admitted that you have ways of being that make you unhappy. I mean, I could search out the posts here but I doubt that would make much more of a difference than just saying it in general. WHo you are? a bulimic who needs help for one thing? You've defended the existence and severity of your ED here -- you've admitted yourself there IS something wrong with who you are in that sense.
Therapy isn't some contrived re-programming and personality-erasing, sinister thing. I doubt a therapist would be sitting around wondering how to mould a person into some being-in-their-image.
>>>>I think I'm just fine.
Purging food is fine?
>>>>>I don't want to change for anyone.Not even for yourself?
>>>>No one can make me get therapy. Everyone can tell me to get therapy, but I can say "No" if I want to. It's up to me and I don't understand why people won't accept my decision.
True, you can't be forced. But then you also can't claim that you're trying everything to confront your ED. You can't play both sides of the court. But hey, that's fine. Not everyone has to recover (or approach it the same way, or with the same fervor). And not everyone wants to. Your choice entirely.
And regarding "not accepting your decision" - I can accept it just fine. But at least now it won't be a shock when I can't offer as much "support" as you like then, cause the way *I* interpret this latest string of posts is that, you're telling me that you're not really interested in anything I have to say. And that's totally cool - I just wasn't sure before, that's why I kept trying. Feel a little bit like I have egg on my face now. And in terms of personal decisions, like you've mentioned, people can avoid responding to threads that they find triggering, or whatever. I guess we're in different places in terms of ED recovery for one (and I'll leave it at that) so I'll apoligize in advance if I have to be selfish and take care of myself first, by choosing to not respond now sometimes. It's not a personal judgement - it's just a self-care thing. It doesn't mean I *want* you to suffer or *hate* you. Just means that I can't take part.I mean, if you just want me to post a bunch of bracket-hugs I could. But I thought you were asking for something more. That's all. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions. But thank you for clarifying where you really stand. [and just to clarify myself, I'm not mad - maybe a little sad, but that's it]
I'll always be ready to post if you ever change your mind and decide you want to work on recovery-type things.
best of luck in the future, and take care D
blove, EL
Posted by ElaineM on November 23, 2006, at 23:15:54
In reply to Sorry, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:01:17
>>>>>People only getting more upset. I should stop posting here.
I don't think anyone is getting upset. Some people are explaining things, but I don't think they are upset. I'd say "trying to understand" more likely.
You can stop posting if that's what you choose, but no one is telling you to stop posting. I think you've been asked to clarify - and you *have* now - so keep on posting as much as *you* need to, and readers will deal with anything you want to say, as *they* need to. THat's it. Clashing of opinions, or styles of communicating, is bound to happen anywhere - you just brush it off, or have an exchange, and then you move on. This is everyone's forum to use - yours too.
Posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 23:47:35
In reply to hope you find what you're looking for » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on November 23, 2006, at 23:06:59
I'm sorry Elaine. Your post made me very sad. It's like you're giving up hope on me. Sorry I made you have to protect yourself.
Maybe I have no hope. I don't want to do the things needed to recover so I don't have hope. Feel like killing myself now. Have no hope. :-( Sorry if I'm being dramatic.
Deneb*
Posted by adrift on November 24, 2006, at 1:09:01
In reply to Sorry, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:01:17
Deneb,
Im confident that whatever is at the root of your eating disorder you will get it all sorted out with your pdoc(t). Hang in there. People are here for you. We want to hear about all the positive things you are doing to help your ED so that you are no longer suffering. I encourage you to look into groups for people with simliar problems and avoid any negative ED influences.
(((Deneb)))
Posted by SatinDoll on November 24, 2006, at 11:06:04
In reply to Re: Sorry » Deneb, posted by adrift on November 24, 2006, at 1:09:01
Deneb,
I posted to you in an above older thread, and now I have been reading more of your posts, and I discovered something interesting.When we talked in chat about what I as learning about the warning signs for ED, and based on what you first told me in chat, it didn't seem you had the major symptoms. You felt relieved it seemed that you might have minor eating problems, but not the full blown disorders.
Now I read your posts and you are posting EXACTLY the major signs I told you about right down to the calories amounts and saying this is what you are going through now.
I care about you Deneb, and you know that, but something seems off in all of this and I don't like what I am thinking.
I had a friend in highschool who used to do things to get attention from others, nothing excluded what she would do, she was ALWAYS sick with some imagined illness and it ruined our friendship because I couldn't continue to play "the game".
I am not saying you are doing this,(but you did mentioned above that you will do anything to get attention) but it feels simular to me,almost errie,(it could just be me projecting, and if I am I am sorry).But anyhow, whatever it is I urge to to seek a professional that can help you with whatever you need because I care and you should care enough to do it for yourself.
But I don't "play games" with friends either and I eventually catch on to this because even my mother did stuff like this for the same reasons and I got burned one way or another in relationships like this. Sorry if I am being blunt here, I am just sorry, I feel hurt and used at the momement. :(
Posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:30:09
In reply to Re: Sorry, posted by SatinDoll on November 24, 2006, at 11:06:04
Please remember the purpose of this site is support and education. Please respect the views of others, and be sensitive to their feelings even if yours are hurt or you feel frustrated in some way. Also, please don't jump to conclusions about others with regard to diagnosis, intentions, or anything else.
From the FAQ:
It's fine to give others feedback as long as it's constructive. It tends to be more constructive if you put things in terms of what the other person might do better rather than what they did "wrong".Thanks,
deputy gg
Posted by SatinDoll on November 24, 2006, at 12:39:39
In reply to Please keep it civil, everyone, posted by gardenergirl on November 24, 2006, at 12:30:09
I think it is best if I just remove myself from this situation completely. sorry again. I am trying to be honest, but I don't know how to do that and remain correct in the babble way, because I don't understand the rules. So I will back away and not post anymore about this situation. Thanks for the warning GG
Posted by Racer on November 24, 2006, at 12:46:35
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » poet, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 21:46:35
> >> > I can't really answer your question about bulimia and the eating board, so I'll ask a question of you: what did you learn from your experience posting on that cancer site?
> >
> > Poet
>
> I learned that I can't keep posting that I'm doing badly over and over again or else people will start to get really upset with me. I have to learn to suffer in silence.
>
> Deneb*Deneb, I don't think that's the lesson you learned there, is it? Let me ask you a slightly different question:
When you posted on the cancer board, did you have cancer? Do you think that has anything to do with why people became upset there?
In asking that question, I'm not saying you don't have an eating disorder. I'm asking you if you think the fact that you did not have cancer, yet continued to post that "I'm doing badly over and over again" on that cancer site might have had anything to do with people there becoming upset at your posts.
The PsychoBabble community is a place where people can come for education and support. You can post anything you like, as long as it is within the civility guidelines, and you can post the same thing over and over again. No one is saying you can't continue to post here on this board within this community.
There are, however, consequences for our behavior here. The one I think you're running into, and becoming upset by, is that people won't always give you the response you're hoping for. I think that's what's happened here. Just as you have the right to post whatever you choose to post -- always within the guidelines, of course -- others have the right to respond as they choose -- as long as it's within the guidelines.
I won't comment further on anything else in this thread, beyond saying that I do hope you get help with your problems, because I do believe you when you say you're suffering. I wish you were not suffering, I don't like to see you in pain.
Whether or not you choose to do anything about it, though, is -- as you've pointed out -- your choice.
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:41:25
In reply to Re: My bulimia and the eating board » Deneb, posted by Racer on November 24, 2006, at 12:46:35
Tell me you want me to live. Tell me you like me. If you don't, I will feel like killing myself.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
In reply to I'm really really really really upset, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:41:25
I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
I hate myself.
Deneb*
Posted by Poet on November 24, 2006, at 19:24:49
In reply to I'm really really really really upset, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:41:25
Deneb, I think you need to read through your posts. There is a pattern of *help me, I don't need help, I admit I seek attention, but this time I really need help, I'm never going to binge or purge again, now I'm going to restrict. I'm going to kill myself.*
I don't hate you Deneb, I just dislike it when someone tries to manipulate me and I fear that is what you are doing. I believe you that you have an ED, I understand why you don't want therapy, and I hope you understand that I am upset that you ask for help then reject it. It's like you only want to hear that it's okay to have an ED, it is not okay.
I'm sorry you're upset, but I hope you can see how upsetting it is to now read that you want to kill yourself. You've posted things like this before, especially on social, and I wish you could see how it can be misinterpreted as attention seeking, not help seeking. I can offer you my attention, but only if you are receptive to my suggestions of help.
Poet
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 19:45:52
In reply to Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
I don't think people hate you. Frustration and hate are two different things, and I think there is a level of frustration people are experiencing right now that has resulted in them having to withdraw or shield themselves to avoid being hurt or being hurtful.
My two cents on this: There comes a point in our lives when we have to take responsibility for our actions and our words. When we have acted in such a way or said something that causes a number of others frustration, then I think we need to step back and see how we could have done or said things differently. And, when things go bad or we have temporarily alienated others, thinking about killing ourselves should't be what comes to mind to deal with the situation. Life is going to throw you a lot of curve balls along the way, and not everybody is going to treat you with kid gloves or always be patient or sympathetic, and you need to develop skills to deal with those things without resorting to the end it all option.
I hope you can get your ED under control, and I hope that you can start working at maintaining healthy relationships with others that are built on trust and honesty.
> I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
>
> I hate myself.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 19:54:59
In reply to Hope You Find What You're Looking For Trigger » Deneb, posted by Poet on November 24, 2006, at 19:24:49
I'm sorry. I don't want to kill myself anymore. I'm feeling a little better now. I'm not good at looking at situations from other people's point of view. I'm sorry I can't interact like a normal person. I'm not very good at this. I still don't know how to behave here so people will like me.
I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will.
Will people like me again if I see another T? I will do that if it means people will like me again.
What do I need to do so people won't ignore me and be my friend again? I'll do anything to not be ignored and have friends again. I just want people to like me.
If I post good things will people respond to me again? I just want people to like me and write good things to me again.
Here is a good thing: I didn't binge or purge today. I think telling my Mom helped. She's reminding me not to binge and checking up on me to make sure I'm not purging.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » Deneb, posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 19:45:52
> When we have acted in such a way or said something that causes a number of others frustration, then I think we need to step back and see how we could have done or said things differently.
I don't know what I did wrong. I need a specific list of things to not write about. I just don't understand.
> And, when things go bad or we have temporarily alienated others, thinking about killing ourselves should't be what comes to mind to deal with the situation.
I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
> Life is going to throw you a lot of curve balls along the way, and not everybody is going to treat you with kid gloves or always be patient or sympathetic, and you need to develop skills to deal with those things without resorting to the end it all option.
I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
Deneb
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 20:14:00
In reply to Re: Hope You Find What You're Looking For Trigger, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 19:54:59
My opinion - You have to learn to acknowledge and move on. Try to learn not to dwell on things said or done or perceived to have been said or done. Try not to be so impulsive in your reactions to things said or done. Before you respond or react, take a step back and think about it. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we misinterpret another's words and then we react negatively or defensively and we end up with a chain reaction of hurt and frustration, etc. I know this is a completely situation, but whenever two of my staff are having a conflict, before I will step in and try to resolve it, I tell each them to take a walk or sleep on it and then sit down together and discuss what has happened (because, often when we have taken the time to cool off and assess the situation more rationally, we see things in a different light). You know, I have never had to step in and resolve a conflict. The individuals have been able to resolve it themselves and, in the end, have strengthened their working relationship.
Deneb, you can't make people like you and not everybody is going to like you for the same reasons. Asking people what you have to do to make them like you will just end up making you a disingenuous person, and that will wear thin eventually. Spend some time trying to figure out who you are and what makes you happy, and then worry about what others think.
> I'm sorry. I don't want to kill myself anymore. I'm feeling a little better now. I'm not good at looking at situations from other people's point of view. I'm sorry I can't interact like a normal person. I'm not very good at this. I still don't know how to behave here so people will like me.
>
> I just don't get it. I don't think I ever will.
>
> Will people like me again if I see another T? I will do that if it means people will like me again.
>
> What do I need to do so people won't ignore me and be my friend again? I'll do anything to not be ignored and have friends again. I just want people to like me.
>
> If I post good things will people respond to me again? I just want people to like me and write good things to me again.
>
> Here is a good thing: I didn't binge or purge today. I think telling my Mom helped. She's reminding me not to binge and checking up on me to make sure I'm not purging.
>
> Deneb
Posted by ElaineM on November 24, 2006, at 20:32:33
In reply to Re: hope you find what you're looking for *trigger, posted by Deneb on November 23, 2006, at 23:47:35
Sorry, I've been out all day with my sister.
>>>>>>>It's like you're giving up hope on me.
I never once said that, and that's not what I meant to convey. I'm sorry you interpret it that way. It must be hard to feel sad.
>>>>I don't want to do the things needed to recover so I don't have hope.
Like you said, only you can decide what you do and do not want to do. If your decision makes you feel like you have no hope, then that must be a scary feeling. There is always hope when you look for it. I hope you can find what you need.
>>>>>Feel like killing myself now. Have no hope. :-( Sorry if I'm being dramatic.
I'm not a therapist myself so I don't really know how to deal with a statement like that except say that it must be frightening to feel that way. As far as being dramatic, only you can judge that for yourself. I'd never make a comment like that personally about someone else.
There are ways to cope with such feelings, and people to help. If you feel unsafe then I urge you to take care of yourself and go to the emergency.
[I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, so I apoligize if I'm being redundant here.]
best, EL
Posted by dreamboat_annie on November 24, 2006, at 20:46:20
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more » dreamboat_annie, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 20:08:23
> I don't know what I did wrong. I need a specific list of things to not write about. I just don't understand.
>
I can't answer that. Perhaps instead of asking for a list of specific things, try to accept that some of the dialogue that has been taking place here has hurt others for their own very personal reasons. What hurts or upsets or triggers one person is not necessarily going to cause the same reactions in another, so a specific list isn't always helpful. Perhaps, re-read some of the posts and try to understand, from the others' experiences, why they may be frustrated or upset or feeling emotionally vulnerable. When we spend more time listening to others, we are better able to communicate with them and better able to understand where they are coming from.
>
> I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
>
No you are not because you have acknowledged at a very early stage that you have a problem with binging and purging. And, I don't think you really want to die. You just want to stop hurting emotionally.
> I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
>
I'm sure you will. Maybe you can try journalling, if you are not ready to pursue therapy. When I had constant thoughts of harming myself and was feeling negative and insecure, I would sit for hours just writing everything out - how I was feeling, what I was thinking, how mad I was with so and so . . ., and it seemed to help because it distracted me and got the negative thoughts and emotions out of my head. It really can be cathartic.
> Deneb
Posted by adrift on November 24, 2006, at 21:29:48
In reply to Sorry I'm only making ppl hate me more, posted by Deneb on November 24, 2006, at 18:57:17
> I'm only making people hate me more by demanding that they tell me they like me right?
>
> I hate myself.
>
> Deneb*It sounds like you are too focussed on "making" people like you more then anything else. Its never a good idea to "force" anything, no one is liked by everyone and no one likes everyone! Unfortunately there will be times in life that we need to learn to deal and accept the fact that people are not always what we want or expect them to be. You can't be liked by everyone.
As others have said, start talking to your pdoc about how "you" feel about you and hopefully that will get to the root of what's really bothering you.>
> I can't help it. I'm going to die one day because of this, I just know it. I still sort of want to die. If people don't start liking me again I think I want to die. If people don't believe that I will do it, I'll only have to prove them wrong.
It sounds like you need to start liking yourself first. Why do you feel the need to prove anything? Start with proving to yourself that you can overcome this.
>
> I don't think I will ever develop skills to deal with that. I don't think I'm going to last very long in this world.
>
> Deneb
It's not easy but attitude truly does have a lot of impact on how we survive in the world. Start telling yourself that you will develop the skills. You yourself said once in a post that you had changed a lot, that means there is room for more change in developing skills, right?
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