![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 474 to 498 of 795. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2014, at 7:58:15
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 1:45:12
> > Now I don't claim to be an "A" student
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> Why not? I think you're one of the best students here. :-)
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> > but I do not see what you wrote is relevant to that the statement in question could cause a subset of readers to feel humiliation and ridicule and shame when they read that their religion will not allow them into heaven as not being a Christian and that the statement is not sanctioned by you and your deputies of record then which could lead them to think that you are validating the insult toward Jews and Islamic people and all other religions that are not Christian
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> It's indirectly relevant. IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
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> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...It's indirectly relevant...I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements...].
I do not see any such thing. The rule here is that what {could} be seen. And it could be seen that since the statement in question is not repudiated by you, that a subset of readers could think that you think that it is not against your rules. Now I do not know if there could be another subset of readers to agree with you. I think that they would have to {jump to a conclusion} to arrive at that, for you do say that you didn't {necessarily} validate the anti-Semitic statement as to what it could purport, but then, that means that you could be validating the hatred that the statement could purport toward Jews and Islamic people and all the other people that have in their religion a way to heaven that are not Christian.
It is the {could} that overrules the {will} in your TOS here. And if it {could}, then one match {could} start a forest fire regardless if the fire starter curses at the trees. For if there is a person cursing at the trees, that does not mean that they will start a fire. But if there is a person saying that Jews can not enter heaven because they are not Christians, and the leader of the community will not repudiate the claim, that could stoke the furnace of hatred toward Jews as the historical record shows.
Never again
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 22:47:31
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-jmptukun » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2014, at 7:58:15
> > IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
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> I do not see any such thing. The rule here is that what {could} be seen. And it could be seen that since the statement in question is not repudiated by you, that a subset of readers could think that you think that it is not against your rules. Now I do not know if there could be another subset of readers to agree with you.I do believe another subset of readers could agree with me.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2014, at 8:14:34
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 5, 2014, at 22:47:31
> > > IMO, by sanctioning a later statement, I made it clear that I didn't necessarily validate their statements.
> >
> > I do not see any such thing. The rule here is that what {could} be seen. And it could be seen that since the statement in question is not repudiated by you, that a subset of readers could think that you think that it is not against your rules. Now I do not know if there could be another subset of readers to agree with you.
>
> I do believe another subset of readers could agree with me.
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> BobMr, Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I do believe another subset of readers could agree with me...].
That may be, but that does not annul the fact that there could also be a subset of readers that see that you have not posted a repudiation to what could lead Jews and Islamic people and all other people that have in their faith that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian to feel put down when they read the statement. For they could know of your rule that if a post is not sanctioned, then the statements in the post are not against your rules according to you. This could lead those readers to think that you and your deputies of record the are validating what the statement could purport.
That, then, could foster hatred toward the Jews and the others that have a faith that could allow them to enter heaven as not being a Christian. This is also because there could be a subset of readers that see that you did sanction, according to your rules, the use of a vulgar word. But you have allowed to stand what could insult Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. Your policy is that anything that is not supportive is to not be posted, for being supportive takes precedence. So a subset of readers could think that you and your deputies of record are ratifying what puts down Jews by not sanctioning the statement in question, which is anti-Semitism that could be seen by a subset of readers as being encouraged by you and your deputies of record. And does it matter that you sanctioned the statement that has a vulgar word, that by you doing that, it annuals what the insult to Judaism and Islam and the others could purport?
If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours. But even if you say that there could be a subset of readers that could go along with you, I say to you that your rule is to not to post anything that could put down those of other faiths and that unsanctioned posts have statements in them that do not break your rules. And since the post with the statements that put down Jews is unsanctioned, a subset of readers that came here in depression, looking for support, could feel humiliation, ridicule and dehumanization when they read the post in question and go deeper into depression, which could lead them to kill themselves. I do not see how if there is a subset of people that could agree with you, how that overrules your rule to not post what could lead someone to feel put down by reading a post that is disrespectful to Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. For even if there is that subset of people that agree with you, there is still the subset of people that see what is plainly visible. Your rule is to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths, and the statement is not sanctioned directly, so there could be a subset of readers that think that you and your deputies of record then are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that are not Christian that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian.
If you wanted to, you could post a link in the thread where the post appears something like:
[...Please be advised that myself and the deputies of record do not think that the statement is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and it is not in accordance with our rule to not post anything that could be disrespectful to other faiths. But because the poster used a vulgar word in another post, since we sanctioned that post, that means to us, that we can leave the statement that puts down Jews and others unsanctioned so that the readers that could feel put down when they read the insult to their faith, should not feel that way because we sanctioned a statement by the poster later in the thread that used a vulgar word. We also know that we could sanction the statement in question if we wanted to, but we choose to allow it to stand. We also realize that there could be readers that do not see that by us sanctioning another post by the poster, that all other statements by that poster in other posts, are also unsupportive. We also know that one match could start a forest fire. We say that we will take the chance of the fire of hatred toward the Jews and Islamic people and the others identified in the statement in question being spread from here by the nature that there could be a subset of readers that think that we are validating what the statement in question could purport because we are leaving it unsanctioned. Be advised that I do what in my thinking will be good for this community as a whole. So I am going to leave the statement in question un repudiated by me even though there could be those that feel shamed, or ridiculed or defamed because they are a Jew or Islamic or belong to a faith that could allow them to enter heaven by not being a Christian.
Dr. Bob...]Lou PIlder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 11, 2014, at 10:48:36
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-quntmleep » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 6, 2014, at 8:14:34
> If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2014, at 19:53:10
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 11, 2014, at 10:48:36
> > If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
>
> I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole. In leaving the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by you, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that you sanctioned the statement in another post that used a vulgar word that is against your rules as what I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or false:
A. The statement could foster anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings as well as being insulting to other faiths that are non-Christian.
B. There are readers that could think that since you state that what is not sanctioned is not against your rules, that the anti-Semitism is being ratified by you, so that those readers could think that you are advancing anti-Semitism by leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you.
C. It is good for this community as a whole for you, Mr. Hsiung, to leave the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, un repudiated by you even though there could be readers that feel put down, humiliated, ridiculed, insulted and be cast into a deeper depression when they read it as being un repudiated by you.
Fill in:
D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Lou Pilder
insult to Judaism
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2014, at 18:11:27
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-duhgud » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2014, at 19:53:10
> > > If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
> >
> > I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole. In leaving the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by you, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that you sanctioned the statement in another post that used a vulgar word that is against your rules as what I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> True or false:
> A. The statement could foster anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings as well as being insulting to other faiths that are non-Christian.
> B. There are readers that could think that since you state that what is not sanctioned is not against your rules, that the anti-Semitism is being ratified by you, so that those readers could think that you are advancing anti-Semitism by leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you.
> C. It is good for this community as a whole for you, Mr. Hsiung, to leave the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, un repudiated by you even though there could be readers that feel put down, humiliated, ridiculed, insulted and be cast into a deeper depression when they read it as being un repudiated by you.
> Fill in:
> D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Lou Pilder
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> insult to JudaismFriends,
I have examined more closely the situation here with Mr. Hsiung saying that he sanctioned the statement {indirectly}. My concern is if there is really any such thing as an indirect sanction. Now I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster. And even more, if intelligence is what leads those to go along with Mr. Hsiung, what about all the rest of the readers that are just plain dumb? do not they also count as people in the {whole} that Mr. Hsiung says that he does what will be good for the whole?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2014, at 18:33:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- eyetinklushdbee » Lou Pilder, posted by fayeroe on October 3, 2013, at 1:59:27
> Lou, I've been lurking around for the past 3-4 months. I will surf through here about every 3 weeks.
> I would like to express my feelings about your position here and your "issues".
> Lou, I've never seen anyone write a post that would be against your heritage and religion.
> I came here in 2002. In that length of time, I've never seen you post one supportive post to anyone here. Perhaps I've missed it but I don't think so.
> You and I emailed for a long time about 5 years ago. I was pleased to read your emails as you wrote in a normal manner and never mentioned your feelings of not being accepted here.I even tried to get you to support others and you were quite rational and appropriate in your emails.
> I'd like to give you some advice and hopefully some insight in what you are doing now and doing it well. I want you to stop beating a dead horse about being discriminated against. Lou, I'm just enough Choctaw indian that I am occasionally discriminated against. I am subjected to it especially if I am with other indians who are darker than I am. White people always want to know what I'm doing travelling with "injuns". I don't take it personally. I don't beleive that you are truly as invested in the 'discrimination' against you as you put in your posts. I believe that it keeps you front and center and you like that very, very much.
> Lou, the site needs you as a positive influence. I believe that you could be an very effective leader if you could see a way to stop posting about being jewish and take the time to offer support to other posters. Posters certainly have written some very nice and caring messages to you. I hope you can see a way to do a complete turnaround and be a help to the site so it can continue to go on and perhaps attract new posters.
> I have one more issue that I do want to address. Lou, I don't believe it is fair to the posters here for you to rail against the meds that people need and take. NO ONE criticizes anyone else's choice of meds and I would like to see you completely quit it. I don't think that it makes you look like an expert. I think it has other effects upon posters and especially new posters.
> I hope you can find it in your heart to change your approach to the regular posters. Some are quite nice to you and certainly others show a tolerance that not a lot of people could do. I hope you are thankful for those posters.
> There are lots of people in pain in this world and I believe that you could revitalize the site and I think you could completely turn things around by being invested in others and offering an helping hand. Sincerely, Fayeroe (Pat)fayeroe,
You wrote,[...never seen..a post.. against your heritage and religion...].
To identify what a post is that has a statement that is against the Jewish heritage and religion, we could use several methods to make that determination. Mr. Hsiung uses ,[...do not post anything that could lead one to feel put down or accused..] as one way of determining if a statement is not in accordance with his rules. He then states that anything that could put down another's faith is also against is rules.
Now if something written here insults another's faith, then that could be {against} that faith and against the {heritage} of those that belong to that faith. The religion of Judaism describes how the followers of the God that they give service and worship to could lead them to heaven. The idea of {heaven} could be depicted in literary manners that may be different from the religions of others, but the concept can include being resurrected from the dead as in the scriptures that the Jews use.
Now for a post here to be allowed to stand un repudiated (directly) that states as a subset of readers could think that Jews can not enter heaven, insults the heritage and religion of Judaism, for the statement is false and could arouse anti-Semitic feelings. The tragic consequences that could happen here to a subset of readers that see that post as not being directly sanctioned by Mr. Hsiung or his deputies could lead a subset of readers to feel humiliation and scorn and ridicule and commit suicide because they could know that Mr. Hsiung states that posts that are not sanctioned have in them statements that are not against his rules.
Now what is in question here that I would like for you to post from your perspective, is the last posts in this thread concerning a post. The post has an insult to Judaism and the other faiths that are not Christian that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian and Mr Hsiung states that he sanctioned the post (indirectly}. His rationale is that there is a post by the poster many days after the post in question where Mr. Hsiung sanctioned the post for having a vulgar word in it and so indirectly sanctions the post that has the insult to Judaism and Islam and the other faiths that can be seen. I was wondering what your thought could be on this?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 9:34:18
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-duhgud » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 11, 2014, at 19:53:10
> > > If you contend that there is s subset of readers that think that since you sanctioned the vulgar word, that it means that you also sanction the insult to Judaism, then I have to wonder who those readers are. I guess, if you believe in genetic succession, the relatives of Albert Einstein could be in that sub set, I still do not think that those readers or those that work for NASA could make that conclusion because I do not see any connection, and I wonder how they could see any connection, to two different rules of yours.
> >
> > I appreciate your sense of humor. It's not spelled out in the FAQ (maybe it should be), but that's how it's been here for a long time. I'm confident it's been discussed, though I don't have a precedent handy.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You state that you do what in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole. In leaving the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by you, there could be a subset of readers that could think that you are validating the insult to Judaism and the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that you sanctioned the statement in another post that used a vulgar word that is against your rules as what I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> True or false:
> A. The statement could foster anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings as well as being insulting to other faiths that are non-Christian.
> B. There are readers that could think that since you state that what is not sanctioned is not against your rules, that the anti-Semitism is being ratified by you, so that those readers could think that you are advancing anti-Semitism by leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you.
> C. It is good for this community as a whole for you, Mr. Hsiung, to leave the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, un repudiated by you even though there could be readers that feel put down, humiliated, ridiculed, insulted and be cast into a deeper depression when they read it as being un repudiated by you.
> Fill in:
> D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Lou Pilder
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> insult to JudaismMr. Hsiung,
The statement that you sanctioned for the vulgar word appears in the same post as the insult to Judaism, Islam and all the other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. I apologize for writing that it was in another post by that poster. But does it matter? I say not. In fact, there could be a subset of readers that could think that it was of a greater degree of concern to you to sanction a word than to sanction the insult to Judaism, Islam and the other faiths involved in the statement in question. This could also lead those to think that you could be using your sanctioning of the word as a pretext to allow the hatred toward the Jews and others to stand as being not against your rules and supportive and will be good for this community as a whole on the basis that those readers could know of your policy that if something is not sanctioned, then it is not against your rules.
But it is much more than that. For the statement in question could be felt as an insult to those in those religions that do have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. That includes a great many of readers verses those that could feel offended by the poster using a word that a dictionary says is vulgar. And when you examine the population of readers, I think it could be more likely that Jews, Islamic people and the others depicted in the statement in question could feel insulted than the number of readers that could feel offended by seeing the sanctioned word. This could lead to having a subset of readers feel humiliation, ridicule and dehumanized and fall down into a vortex of depression and commit suicide because there are readers that come here via a search that are in depression and those readers could think that you are validating the insult to their faith because the statement is not sanctioned by you or any of your deputies.
So I think that it could be worse for a subset of readers to see that you sanctioned the word in question , but not the insult to the faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being Christian, that are in the same post. This is because they could see that your policy and rules state that you do not wait to sanction something because one match could start a forest fire and that you also state for posters to be civil at all times. Those readers could have taken you at your word for that, and not know of anything that they think could be a strategy by you to allow you to circumvent your own rules to allow what insults Judaism, Islam and the other faiths to be seen as unsanctioned which could mean to them that what is in question is not against your rules. They could also think that you now want to keep what could arouse anti-Semitic feelings and anti-Islamic feelings and anti-other feelings going on the board as that it will be good for this community as a whole for you to allow the statement to continually stand un repudiated by you. I am asking that you post something right there in the thread that negates any thinking that anti-Semitism is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community. A way could be to post something like this attached to that post there:
[...Statements that a subset of readers could think is a claim that only people of their religion can enter heaven are statements that are not in accordance with my rules here as to not post what could be disrespectful to another's faith.
Dr. Bob...]
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 14:29:49
In reply to Lou's clarification to readers-justaliddlebit, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2014, at 18:11:27
> D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
> I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 19:09:34
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 14:29:49
> > D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
>
> The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
>
> > I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
>
> I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
>
> BobFriends,
You can see one of the arguments that Mr. Hsiung presents here to leave the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by him. What he is using is called an analogy.
An analogy can be true or false. I would like for readers to follow what I will present here in relation for you to determine on your own if the analogy put forth here by Mr. Hsiung is a false analogy or not.
The stakes are high. For if the analogy is true, then anti-Semitic statements could at Mr. Hsiung's will, be allowed to be immune from his own rules to not post what is not supportive because being supportive takes precedence. And by leaving the insult to Judaism un sanctioned, a subset of readers could think that the statement is not against Mr. Hsiung's rules and is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community. That could arouse antisemitic feelings and stoke the furnace of hate toward the Jews and could lead to the murder of Jews and also lead a subset of readers to feel humiliation, ridicule and scorn and could be dragged down onto a vortex of despair which could lead one coming here in depression looking for a way out, to kill themselves.
Now let's look at the literary aspect of what an analogy is. The use of an analogy is reasoning from parallel cases comparing different things in order to persuade readers to be led to some point of similarity. A false analogy is when the two things being compared are not similar enough to warrant the comparison and then can be seen as an intentional attempt to persuade readers to what misleads them. The psychology of the false analogy is that the false analogy attempts to accept that if two things are similar in some respect, they are similar in some other respects.
An analogy works like this:
A and B are shown to be similar
A has property P
so also B must have that property
In a false analogy, A&B are different in a way which affects whether they both have property P
In a false analogy, there could be also false facts presented in the reasoning that could influence the uninformed.
Now let us look at what is 'A" and what is "B" and what is "P".
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 19:34:14
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-phalz?, posted by Lou Pilder on March 14, 2014, at 19:09:34
> > > D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
> >
> > The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
> >
> > > I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
> >
> > I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Friends,
> You can see one of the arguments that Mr. Hsiung presents here to leave the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated by him. What he is using is called an analogy.
> An analogy can be true or false. I would like for readers to follow what I will present here in relation for you to determine on your own if the analogy put forth here by Mr. Hsiung is a false analogy or not.
> The stakes are high. For if the analogy is true, then anti-Semitic statements could at Mr. Hsiung's will, be allowed to be immune from his own rules to not post what is not supportive because being supportive takes precedence. And by leaving the insult to Judaism un sanctioned, a subset of readers could think that the statement is not against Mr. Hsiung's rules and is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community. That could arouse antisemitic feelings and stoke the furnace of hate toward the Jews and could lead to the murder of Jews and also lead a subset of readers to feel humiliation, ridicule and scorn and could be dragged down onto a vortex of despair which could lead one coming here in depression looking for a way out, to kill themselves.
> Now let's look at the literary aspect of what an analogy is. The use of an analogy is reasoning from parallel cases comparing different things in order to persuade readers to be led to some point of similarity. A false analogy is when the two things being compared are not similar enough to warrant the comparison and then can be seen as an intentional attempt to persuade readers to what misleads them. The psychology of the false analogy is that the false analogy attempts to accept that if two things are similar in some respect, they are similar in some other respects.
> An analogy works like this:
> A and B are shown to be similar
> A has property P
> so also B must have that property
> In a false analogy, A&B are different in a way which affects whether they both have property P
> In a false analogy, there could be also false facts presented in the reasoning that could influence the uninformed.
> Now let us look at what is 'A" and what is "B" and what is "P".
> Lou
>
Friends,
Now let us designate "A" as being the civility code by Mr. Hsiung and
"B" the tax code. Both are codes so there is similarity. In an analogy, the presenter of such attempts to make you believe that if A and B are similar in some respect, they will be similar in "P" also. The issue is that there is a statement allowed here to stand that puts down Jews. The tax code does not have a statement that puts down Jews in it.
There could also be "P" in that if one accepts the tax code, then the Hsiung code could also be accepted even if one dislikes part of it.
more to come...
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 15, 2014, at 9:00:43
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- eyetinklushdbee » Lou Pilder, posted by fayeroe on October 3, 2013, at 1:59:27
> Lou, I've been lurking around for the past 3-4 months. I will surf through here about every 3 weeks.
> I would like to express my feelings about your position here and your "issues".
> Lou, I've never seen anyone write a post that would be against your heritage and religion.
> I came here in 2002. In that length of time, I've never seen you post one supportive post to anyone here. Perhaps I've missed it but I don't think so.
> You and I emailed for a long time about 5 years ago. I was pleased to read your emails as you wrote in a normal manner and never mentioned your feelings of not being accepted here.I even tried to get you to support others and you were quite rational and appropriate in your emails.
> I'd like to give you some advice and hopefully some insight in what you are doing now and doing it well. I want you to stop beating a dead horse about being discriminated against. Lou, I'm just enough Choctaw indian that I am occasionally discriminated against. I am subjected to it especially if I am with other indians who are darker than I am. White people always want to know what I'm doing travelling with "injuns". I don't take it personally. I don't beleive that you are truly as invested in the 'discrimination' against you as you put in your posts. I believe that it keeps you front and center and you like that very, very much.
> Lou, the site needs you as a positive influence. I believe that you could be an very effective leader if you could see a way to stop posting about being jewish and take the time to offer support to other posters. Posters certainly have written some very nice and caring messages to you. I hope you can see a way to do a complete turnaround and be a help to the site so it can continue to go on and perhaps attract new posters.
> I have one more issue that I do want to address. Lou, I don't believe it is fair to the posters here for you to rail against the meds that people need and take. NO ONE criticizes anyone else's choice of meds and I would like to see you completely quit it. I don't think that it makes you look like an expert. I think it has other effects upon posters and especially new posters.
> I hope you can find it in your heart to change your approach to the regular posters. Some are quite nice to you and certainly others show a tolerance that not a lot of people could do. I hope you are thankful for those posters.
> There are lots of people in pain in this world and I believe that you could revitalize the site and I think you could completely turn things around by being invested in others and offering an helping hand. Sincerely, Fayeroe (Pat)Pat, you wrote,[... the discrimination against you...].
Discrimination could pump poison in reader's minds here. The poison of hate could drag a subset of readers into a vortex of depression downward into a pit of despair to kill themselves. The statements here that I am taking one post at a time that if a repudiation by Mr. Hsiung is posted to those that could foster anti-Semitism, could stop any thinking that this site is a promoter of hatred toward the Jews and others. As long as the posts that you see here are allowed to be seen as supportive and not against Mr. Hsiung's own rules, then there could be a subset of readers to think that anti-Semitism is supportive and not only that, but anti-Semitism will be good for this community as a whole, for that is what is stated by Mr. Hsiung as in what he does in his thinking here.
A way that hatred toward the Jews can be fostered in a community is to allow the depiction of Jews as being in an inferior religion, or to depict Judaism as inferior to Christianity in that a depiction of Christianity is superior to Judaism which insults Judaism. The rule here is to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths or to not post anything that is disrespectful to another's faith. If that rule is not enforced to allow Judaism to be ridiculed or insulted, while the foundation of Judaism as revealed to me is not allowed to be posted, then discrimination could happen here. And discrimination is an abuse of power.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 15, 2014, at 18:35:56
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2014, at 14:29:49
> > D. The "good" that will come to this community by you, Mr. Hsiung, leaving the statement in question un repudiated by you, is:
>
> The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down.
>
> > I have thought that there could be a subset of people that are a little bit smarter than me that could understand what Mr Hsiung is saying. But after reviewing the issue, I find that by posting a repudiation of a vulgar word, that does not include repudiating the insult to Judaism and those other faiths that is plainly visible in the post in question. For one to think that, could not then those thinkers have to jump to a conclusion? And anyway, just because there could be a subset of readers just a little bit smarter than me, that does not mean that intelligence is what could have those in that subset think that repudiating a vulgar word automatically repudiate everything else that the poster wrote in other posts by the poster.
>
> I'm not smart enough to understand the tax code, and don't like parts of it, but still I accept it.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...the goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting readers to think from that. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or False:
A. The good that comes to the community by me and my deputies of record not sanctioning the anti-Semitic statement, Lou, is that the author of the post could feel good that I allowed it to stand un repudiated.
B. The good that could come to the community by me and my deputies of record allowing the anti-Semitic statement to remain un repudiated, Lou, is that others could see that support takes precedence as my policy states, so it is supportive to leave the anti-Semitic statement unsanctioned.
C. The good that could come to the community by me and my deputies of record not sanctioning the anti-Semitic statement, Lou, is that posters are to be civil at all times, so being civil at all times means that I will not sanction anti-Semitic posts because it could make the author of the anti-Semitic statement feel too put down which would be uncivil.
D. The good that could come to the community by me and my deputies of record leaving the anti-Semitic statement unsanctioned, is that I give a higher priority to the feelings of those that post anti-Semitic statements than to the tragic consequences that could come to a subset of readers by seeing that I have not sanctioned the anti-Semitism so that they could think that posting anti-Semitism is not against my rules.
E. The good that could come to the community by me and my deputies of record allowing the anti-Semitic statement to stand, Lou, is that since one match could start a forest fire, the fire of hate indicated by the anti-Semitic statement being allowed by us is not as great a concern to us as the feelings of the poster that posted the anti-Semitic statement.
F. The classic argument that a child that killed his parents should be allowed to escape punishment because he is now an orphan, applies to this situation also, Lou.
G. something else.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 16, 2014, at 17:24:32
In reply to Lou's reply- The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-oarphan » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 15, 2014, at 18:35:56
> D. The good that could come to the community by me and my deputies of record leaving the anti-Semitic statement unsanctioned, is that I give a higher priority to the feelings of those that post anti-Semitic statements than to the tragic consequences that could come to a subset of readers by seeing that I have not sanctioned the anti-Semitism so that they could think that posting anti-Semitism is not against my rules.
Not taking into account the feelings, or in general the well-being, of those with different beliefs, or values, can have tragic consequences, too.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2014, at 7:15:01
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 16, 2014, at 17:24:32
> > D. The good that could come to the community by me and my deputies of record leaving the anti-Semitic statement unsanctioned, is that I give a higher priority to the feelings of those that post anti-Semitic statements than to the tragic consequences that could come to a subset of readers by seeing that I have not sanctioned the anti-Semitism so that they could think that posting anti-Semitism is not against my rules.
>
> Not taking into account the feelings, or in general the well-being, of those with different beliefs, or values, can have tragic consequences, too.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to lead readers to think from what you wrote here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or false:
A. By me not posting a response to your questions to me here, Lou, except for D, readers could be led to think what I want them to believe. If I did answer those other questions, readers could have a better understanding of the issues here and why I have not posted a repudiation to the anti-Semitic statement.
B. By me not specifying who the people are in my answer to D, Lou, then readers could think that the poster of anti-Semitism is allowed to be immune from my sanctioning their anti-Semitic statement because their belief is different from Judaism and their general well-being could be harmed if I was to sanction the anti-Semitic statement.
C. By me not specifying what the tragic consequences could be, Lou, readers could think that the tragic consequences could be that if I was to post a repudiation to the statement that insults Judaism, Islam and all other faiths that are not Christian that do have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, that readers could think that I welcome all faiths here and do not allow posts that claim that Jews and Islamic people and the others are excluded from heaven because they are non-Christians, that the Christians that promulgate such could have tragic consequences to their well-being.
Fill in:
D. I agree with you, Lou, that my reply could be ambiguous as to who the people are with different beliefs, and what the tragic consequences could be to them and what could constitute taking into account the feelings of those in question. So here is a more definitive response to your question to me in D.
_______________________________________________Lou PIlder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2014, at 0:30:42
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-obfue » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 17, 2014, at 7:15:01
> D. I agree with you, Lou, that my reply could be ambiguous as to who the people are with different beliefs, and what the tragic consequences could be to them and what could constitute taking into account the feelings of those in question.
I was ambiguous on purpose. Because I'd like people to reflect on who I might mean.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2014, at 13:05:50
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2014, at 0:30:42
> > D. I agree with you, Lou, that my reply could be ambiguous as to who the people are with different beliefs, and what the tragic consequences could be to them and what could constitute taking into account the feelings of those in question.
>
> I was ambiguous on purpose. Because I'd like people to reflect on who I might mean.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I'd like people to reflect on who I might mean...](as the reason that you posted an ambiguous response to me).
I am unsure as to what you are wanting readers to think when they read that. If you could post answers to the following, then readers could have a better understanding of your intentions here.
True or false:
A. I might mean that the people with different beliefs are the Christians that purport that Jews and Islamic people and the others that have faiths that in their agenda they can enter heaven as not being a Christian, and so I will not post a repudiation to the anti-Semitic statement so that they could feel good by seeing the statement stand by me and my deputies of record.
B. I might mean that I am taking into consideration the feelings of the Jews and the Islamic people and the others in that a posting by me of a repudiation of the claim that insults their faith could stop any thinking that I am validating the claim that puts down Jews and the others. And that I am not concerned about the feelings of the Jews and the Islamic people and the others that could cause a subset of readers here that come here in depression to go deeper in depression and commit suicide when they see the statement allowed by me to stand un repudiated which could lead them to think that I and my deputies of record ratify the claim that says that Judaism and Islam and the other faiths involved are inferior to Christianity because of what the statement purports.
C. I might mean that the people in question are those that want to see anisemitism have the potential to be fostered here by the fact that the statement that puts down Jews is allowed to stand.
D. I might want readers to reflect on who I am referring to, Lou, as to be those readers that want hatred toward all those that are excluded from heaven that are in the statement in question to be maimed and killed by Jew-haters and others that want to see anti-Semitism encouraged here by me and my deputies of record leaving the statement to stand because this is one way that we can control the content to persuade readers to hate Jews and others by determining what is supportive or not by sanctioning or not statements here. And since one match could start a forest fire, as long as we do not post a repudiation of the statement, the fire of hate can still remain burning.
E. something else which is:_______________...
Lou PIlder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 2:16:57
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-fyrofhy » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 18, 2014, at 13:05:50
> > I was ambiguous on purpose. Because I'd like people to reflect on who I might mean.
>
> A. I might mean that the people with different beliefs are the Christians
> B. I might mean that I am taking into consideration the feelings of the Jews and the Islamic people and the others
> D. I might want readers to reflect on who I am referring to
> E. something else which is:_______________...All of the above.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 20, 2014, at 12:08:06
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 2:16:57
> > > I was ambiguous on purpose. Because I'd like people to reflect on who I might mean.
> >
> > A. I might mean that the people with different beliefs are the Christians
> > B. I might mean that I am taking into consideration the feelings of the Jews and the Islamic people and the others
> > D. I might want readers to reflect on who I am referring to
> > E. something else which is:_______________...
>
> All of the above.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote [... all of the above...] as a reply to my request to you to answer as to if the questions that I asked of you are true or false.
I am unsure as to what you are wanting readers to think by that you did not answer as to if the questions from me are true or false, but posted, "All of the above."
Now your answer does not tell readers if you are wanting to mean that the questions from me to you are either true or false, for the phrase {All of the above} does not declare either.
But it is much more than that. For by you posting the answer that you did, a subset of readers could think that you are evading the issue that concerns the allowing of the anti-Semitic statement to remain un repudiated by you. As to what your intent is by doing so, those readers could also think that if you had posted as to if one of the questions from me was either true or false, that by you posting one of those, those readers could see if your intent is to foster hatred toward the Jews or not, by allowing the statement in question to stand. Also, a subset of readers could be lead to think that you are using this forum to foster anti-Semitism if by you not posting as to if the statement is true or false, a subset of readers could think that it is your intent not to post a repudiation of the anti-Semitism so that they could think that anti-Semitism posted here is not against your rules, is also supportive, and also will be good for this community as a whole according to you TOS here.
I have the following concerns and if you could post answers to them, I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
True or False:
A. I did not answer those questions from you as to if they were either true or false, Lou, so that I could lead some readers that are ignorant of the tactic of evasion to think that I answered your questions to me.
B. I did not answer those questions from you as to if they are true or false because, Lou, because if I did, a subset of readers could think that my intent is to humiliate and ridicule and defame Jews here by allowing anti-Semitic statement to stand.
C. I did not answer your questions to me as to if they are true or false, Lou, because as long as I allow the anti-Semitic statement to stand here, a subset of readers could think that the fire of hatred toward the Jews can be still burning here and that hatred could be carried outside of this forum as like embers blowing in the wind, to start an inferno of hatred toward the Jews and the others depicted in the anti-Semitic statement in question.
D. I did not answer your questions to me as to be true or false, Lou, because as long as I leave the anti-Semitic statement un repudiated, then the fostering of anti-Semitism by me and my deputies of record , Lou, could be thought to be by a subset of readers, which could lead them to think that myself and the deputies of record are not concerned about the feelings of the Jews feeling ridicule and debasement as a result after reading the statement in question as being un repudiated. Those subset of readers could also think that the souls of the millions of Jewish children murdered by those that harbored anti-Semitic feelings was justified by those leaders that promulgated hatred toward the Jews and led their country to think that hatred toward the Jews was state-sponsored because they allowed antisemitic hate to be published. Those souls of the murdered Jewish children can not speak here today. I will speak for them.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 23:14:54
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-eehvay » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 20, 2014, at 12:08:06
> by you posting the answer that you did, a subset of readers could think that you are evading the issue
Sorry about that. Let me back up and try again:
The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down. Not taking into account the feelings, or in general the well-being, of those who have been uncivil can have tragic consequences, too.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 21, 2014, at 6:10:03
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 20, 2014, at 23:14:54
> > by you posting the answer that you did, a subset of readers could think that you are evading the issue
>
> Sorry about that. Let me back up and try again:
>
> The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down. Not taking into account the feelings, or in general the well-being, of those who have been uncivil can have tragic consequences, too.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
The goal of the forum is for support and education. And you state that if there is a conflict, being supportive takes precedence.
A subset of readers could see what you have posted to me as a way for you to allow hate to be promulgated here. In the case at hand, hatred toward Jews, Islamic people and all other people that have a faith that has in their agenda a way for them to enter heaven without being a Christian. What you have posted here could be considered to be by a subset of reader an anti-Semitic policy on the grounds that you say that your policy will allow you to leave anti-Semitic statements un repudiated by you and your deputies of record on the grounds that if you did post a repudiation, the poster of the anti-Semitism could feel too accused which could then have tragic consequences. The people that the tragic consequences could come to could be those that become victims of anti-Semitic violence or anti-Islamic violence as a result of readers seeing that you are refusing to post a repudiation to the anti-Semitic statement which could lead a subset of readers to think that you and your deputies of record are ratifying the hatred toward Jews and the others by the fact that you state that if anything is not sanctioned, then it is not against your rules here and the goal here is to be civil at all times, and one match could start a forest fire.
A subset of readers could think that by you saying that your goal is not what you have posted here, could lead a subset of readers to consider that your intent here is to foster anti-Semitic hate. This is also because by looking at what you just posted, your statement is {after the fact} because your TOS states that you do enforce your rules by posting something to an uncivil post, and there is nothing in your rules that I can see, before you posted this to me, that states otherwise or allows you to leave anti-Semitic statements un repudiated on some grounds that the feelings of the one that posted the anti-Semitism would be hurt and tragic consequences could result because you sanctioned what is not supportive. Your TOS states not to post anything that could put down those of other faiths.
There could be a subset of readers that see that by you taking this position, that your intent is to encourage others to post anti-Semitic hate. This is because if they read what you just posted to me, they could post anti-Semitic statements and feel that they have immunity to do so here on the grounds that what you just posted could mean that you will not sanction the anti-Semitism because if you do, the poster's feelings could be hurt. But you could post a repudiation to the statement, and not the poster if you wanted to and as of now, you have not. You could post something like:
[...the statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and is not in accordance with our rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths...].
There could be a subset of readers , Mr. Hsiung, that see what you are doing as a transparent attempt to engender sympathy where no sympathy is deserved. And those readers could think that your intent here is to provide a venue for posting statements that could foster anti-Semitism and hatred toward the Jews and the others depicted in the post in question. You say your goal would be compromised in some way if you did sanction the anti-Semitic statement. I say bullsh*t.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 22, 2014, at 11:48:41
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-bulschid » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 21, 2014, at 6:10:03
> > > by you posting the answer that you did, a subset of readers could think that you are evading the issue
> >
> > Sorry about that. Let me back up and try again:
> >
> > The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down. Not taking into account the feelings, or in general the well-being, of those who have been uncivil can have tragic consequences, too.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> The goal of the forum is for support and education. And you state that if there is a conflict, being supportive takes precedence.
> A subset of readers could see what you have posted to me as a way for you to allow hate to be promulgated here. In the case at hand, hatred toward Jews, Islamic people and all other people that have a faith that has in their agenda a way for them to enter heaven without being a Christian. What you have posted here could be considered to be by a subset of reader an anti-Semitic policy on the grounds that you say that your policy will allow you to leave anti-Semitic statements un repudiated by you and your deputies of record on the grounds that if you did post a repudiation, the poster of the anti-Semitism could feel too accused which could then have tragic consequences. The people that the tragic consequences could come to could be those that become victims of anti-Semitic violence or anti-Islamic violence as a result of readers seeing that you are refusing to post a repudiation to the anti-Semitic statement which could lead a subset of readers to think that you and your deputies of record are ratifying the hatred toward Jews and the others by the fact that you state that if anything is not sanctioned, then it is not against your rules here and the goal here is to be civil at all times, and one match could start a forest fire.
> A subset of readers could think that by you saying that your goal is not what you have posted here, could lead a subset of readers to consider that your intent here is to foster anti-Semitic hate. This is also because by looking at what you just posted, your statement is {after the fact} because your TOS states that you do enforce your rules by posting something to an uncivil post, and there is nothing in your rules that I can see, before you posted this to me, that states otherwise or allows you to leave anti-Semitic statements un repudiated on some grounds that the feelings of the one that posted the anti-Semitism would be hurt and tragic consequences could result because you sanctioned what is not supportive. Your TOS states not to post anything that could put down those of other faiths.
> There could be a subset of readers that see that by you taking this position, that your intent is to encourage others to post anti-Semitic hate. This is because if they read what you just posted to me, they could post anti-Semitic statements and feel that they have immunity to do so here on the grounds that what you just posted could mean that you will not sanction the anti-Semitism because if you do, the poster's feelings could be hurt. But you could post a repudiation to the statement, and not the poster if you wanted to and as of now, you have not. You could post something like:
> [...the statement is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and is not in accordance with our rule to not post anything that could put down those of other faiths...].
> There could be a subset of readers , Mr. Hsiung, that see what you are doing as a transparent attempt to engender sympathy where no sympathy is deserved. And those readers could think that your intent here is to provide a venue for posting statements that could foster anti-Semitism and hatred toward the Jews and the others depicted in the post in question. You say your goal would be compromised in some way if you did sanction the anti-Semitic statement. I say bullsh*t.
> Lou PilderMr. Hsiung,
You wrote as to your reason why you will not post a repudiation to the statement that insults Judaism, Islam, and all other faiths that have in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian,[...The goal of the policy is to respond to incivility and at the same time not to make those who have been uncivil feel too accused or put down. Not taking into account the feelings, or the general well-being, of those who have been uncivil can have tragic consequences too...].
Here is the statement in question that is allowed to stand so that readers could think that it is not against your rules, is conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community, supportive, and will be good for this community as a whole according to your terms of service. The statement in question is something like:
[...No non-Christian can enter heaven...].
It has been revealed to me that the statement is a lie. And what I know about the tragic consequences to others that can happen by a community allowing the statement to be considered to be validated by its leader, which a subset of readers could think that the statement is state-sponsored, is in the historical record. I know of nothing in the historical record that says that those that committed war-crimes should be allowed to go free because their feelings would be hurt if they were hanged. I know nothing in the historical record that says that hatred toward the Jews should be allowed to be published and to be seen as civil, because if the author of the the hate was sanctioned, their feelings could be hurt. I know nothing in the historical record that shows that published content that could insult Jews, Islamic people, and all others that have a faith that allows them to enter heaven as not being a Christian, that could contribute to those people's deaths, to be allowed to remain un disabled or unsanctioned unless the jurisdiction that the publishing is in is ratifying and fostering hatred toward the Jews and the others. There is a jurisdiction where you and your deputies could become accessories in any deaths that could be attributed to you and your deputies of record allowing the statement to stand. There are jurisdictions that you and your deputies could be violating their law against publishing anything that could insult their faith, and the statement in question insults all those that have a faith that has in their agenda that they can enter heaven as not being a Christian. You say that there could be tragic consequences to the author of hate if you sanctioned what they wrote that you are allowing to be published as can be seen as civil to you and your deputies of record. I want to know right now what those tragic consequences could be. For I know outside of this forum why the statement is being refused by you and your deputies of record to have a repudiation posted to it. I know and your rules prohibit posting content from others, including your deputies then. And I know that the reason why is different from what you have posted here. And I know what could cause Jewish child that comes here in depression to see the hate that your rules could lead them to think that you are validating anti-Semitic hate here that could cause them to commit suicide because you and your deputies then are allowing the statement to be seen as that it will be good for this community as a whole to allow it to remain un repudiated. They then could think that you are not taking into account their feelings and have feelings of being insulted, ridiculed, debased, dehumanized by you and your deputies of record then.
The statement in question has been revealed to me to be a lie. And your message along with your deputies that do your wishes, could show to a subset of readers hostility and prejudice toward Jews, as those readers could think that by you using your rationale that if you sanctioned the statement the feelings of the author could be hurt, that Jews in that subset of readers could feel that Jews are in an inferior group according to you and your deputies of record. Those in that subset could also think when they read what is in question here that you are using the tactic of discrimination, that is an abuse of power, to foster anti-Semitism. This is because of the fact that you state that being supportive takes precedence, and these subset of readers could think that anti-Semitism is supportive by you and your deputies of record. This could lead that subset of readers to think that Jews will be judged by a different standard than the author that posted the anti-Semitic statement. And also that the readers that are in concert with you to be in your camp to allow the statement that could foster antisemitic feelings on the grounds that if you did post a repudiation the author of the hate could feel too put down/accused, could IMHO create a {collective psychopathy} here of hatred toward Jews, Islamic people and all other people that have in their faith that they can enter heaven as being a non-Christian because of the fact that they could trust you in that what you do in your thinking will be good for this community as a whole, and if it could be good for this community, they could think that it would be good for the community that they are in also. This is part of the tragic consequences that could be as a result of a subset of readers taking you at your word. The statement has been revealed to me to be a lie. You are allowing it to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole. I know what happened in the historical record when the leader of the country also allowed that to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole, and permitted people to publish anti-Semitic hate.
Never again.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2014, at 2:31:26
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-eyenoe, posted by Lou Pilder on March 22, 2014, at 11:48:41
> A subset of readers could see what you have posted to me as a way for you to allow hate to be promulgated here.
True. And a subset could also see what I posted as promulgating love.
> the poster of the anti-Semitism could feel too accused which could then have tragic consequences. The people that the tragic consequences could come to could be those that become victims of anti-Semitic violence
If you want to put it that way, what I was thinking was a poster who was seen as anti-Semitic could become a victim of Semitic violence.
> It has been revealed to me that the statement is a lie.
"Lie" implies intent to deceive, which could lead the poster to feel accused. One way to rephrase that would be:
> > It has been revealed to me that the statement is untrue.
Would you be willing to accept that?
> I know of nothing in the historical record that says that those that committed war-crimes should be allowed to go free
1. Being anti-Semitic isn't a war crime.
2. That poster didn't go free.
> There is a jurisdiction where you ... could become accessories in any deaths that could be attributed to you ... allowing the statement to stand. There are jurisdictions that you ... could be violating their law against publishing anything that could insult their faith
So there could be tragic consequences for me, too. I accept the risk. I see the probability of that as low.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2014, at 8:42:37
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2014, at 2:31:26
> > A subset of readers could see what you have posted to me as a way for you to allow hate to be promulgated here.
>
> True. And a subset could also see what I posted as promulgating love.
>
> > the poster of the anti-Semitism could feel too accused which could then have tragic consequences. The people that the tragic consequences could come to could be those that become victims of anti-Semitic violence
>
> If you want to put it that way, what I was thinking was a poster who was seen as anti-Semitic could become a victim of Semitic violence.
>
> > It has been revealed to me that the statement is a lie.
>
> "Lie" implies intent to deceive, which could lead the poster to feel accused. One way to rephrase that would be:
>
> > > It has been revealed to me that the statement is untrue.
>
> Would you be willing to accept that?
>
> > I know of nothing in the historical record that says that those that committed war-crimes should be allowed to go free
>
> 1. Being anti-Semitic isn't a war crime.
>
> 2. That poster didn't go free.
>
> > There is a jurisdiction where you ... could become accessories in any deaths that could be attributed to you ... allowing the statement to stand. There are jurisdictions that you ... could be violating their law against publishing anything that could insult their faith
>
> So there could be tragic consequences for me, too. I accept the risk. I see the probability of that as low.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote that could be seen as civil and supportive by you;
[...what I was thinking was a poster who was seen as anti-Semitic could become a victim of Semitic violence...]
Saying that the poster could be seen as anti-Semitic could lead the poster to feel accused and jumps to a conclusion that if a statement that is anti-Semitic is posted, then the poster of such is anti-Semitic. You are allowing the statement,{No non-Christian can enter heaven}, to be seen as un repudiated by you but that does not mean that you are anti-Semitic.
A better way for you to have phrased what could lead the poster to feel accused as being anti-Semeitic could have been;
[...what I was thinking was a poster who was seen as having a statement that puts down Jews being allowed by me to remain un repudiated could have a subset of readers think that I was validating and fostering anti-Semitism...].
Would you be willing to accept that?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2014, at 13:46:28
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discus-wilngtuexcept » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on March 27, 2014, at 8:42:37
> Saying that the poster could be seen as anti-Semitic could lead the poster to feel accused and jumps to a conclusion that if a statement that is anti-Semitic is posted, then the poster of such is anti-Semitic. You are allowing the statement ... to be seen as un repudiated by you but that does not mean that you are anti-Semitic.
That's a good point, thanks.
> [...what I was thinking was ... a statement that puts down Jews being allowed by me to remain un repudiated could have a subset of readers think that I was validating and fostering anti-Semitism...].
> Would you be willing to accept that?In general, yes. But that doesn't mean I accept that the particular statement we're discussing puts down Jews.
Bob
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