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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 45 to 69 of 98. Go back in thread:
Posted by Emme_V2 on January 23, 2014, at 6:46:06
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2014, at 4:14:59
> > Why would you think it necessary to single me out for especially severe blocks?
>
> 1. I don't see them as especially severe. They follow the guidelines. Which I've been exhorted to follow, and which I do in general try to follow.
>
> 2. I haven't shown you leniency, that's true. I guess I'm not sure how else to respond to your pattern of actions, so I fall back on policy.
>
> Would you like to suggest an alternative? Would you like me to allow you to take the lead, stay with whatever feelings you have, not ask questions or change the subject, and not analyze or interpret?
>
> 3. Do you have a theory as to why I respond to you the way I do? Is it that I consider you threatening?
>
> > it is impossible for me to understand why you would consider me threatening in any way
>
> Even now, fresh from a block:
>
> > a lack of respect and appreciation on Bob's part
>
> > very cold comments
>
> Could you please rephrase those?
>
> > If I am blocked again for something like this, I will never visit this forum again.
>
> If you keep posting things like that, and I can't think of a better way to respond, I'll keep blocking you. Are we a rock and a hard place?
>
> BobBob,
I support Twinleaf's post above, and I disagree with yours. I do not perceive Twinleaf's post as uncivil or disrespectful at all, just as I did not believe the post for which you previously blocked her was uncivil. I do hope you will reconsider what you are writing.
emme
Posted by Partlycloudy on January 23, 2014, at 8:19:33
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dr. Bob, posted by Emme_V2 on January 23, 2014, at 6:46:06
I agree with Emme. Please show Twinleaf the same leniency as you are showing others (including myself).
Thank you.
PC
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 9:51:42
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2014, at 4:14:59
> you like me to allow you to take the lead, stay with whatever feelings you have, not ask questions or change the subject, and not analyze or interpret?
>Why are you using twinleaf's words describing therapy?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20131211/msgs/1059259.htmlBob you are not a therapist here. This is beginning to border on creepy as well as inappropriate.
Posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 12:24:34
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2014, at 4:14:59
OK. although I still do not understand the basis or reasons for your unusually harsh attitude towards me, and undoubtedly never will, I want to keep my options here open a bit longer. I do not think it's healthy to be put into a position where you have to say goodbye suddenly after a relationship which has lasted10 years, so, change my comments to read;
"respect and appreciation on Bob's part"
"very warm comments"
I was startled that you seemed to think that I wanted to replicate my therapeutic relationship in discussions with you - that seemed to me to be a very inappropriate comment, and is not evenly remotely the case. At the top of this page, you yourself have written, "discussion ..is not therapy". That is a wise statement that is very worth adhering to, not just in your interactions with me, but with the several other posters with whom you have introduced an unrequested therapeutic element.
Posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 12:48:21
In reply to Re: please rephrase that, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 12:24:34
>
> I was startled that you seemed to think that I wanted to replicate my therapeutic relationship in discussions with you - that seemed to me to be a very inappropriate comment, and is not evenly remotely the case. At the top of this page, you yourself have written, "discussion ..is not therapy". That is a wise statement that is very worth adhering to, not just in your interactions with me, but with the several other posters with whom you have introduced an unrequested therapeutic element.Twinleaf, are you familiar with the fable about the scorpion and the frog?
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 12:52:08
In reply to Re: please rephrase that, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 12:24:34
I admire a woman who can type with her fingers crossed ;)
> OK. although I still do not understand the basis or reasons for your unusually harsh attitude towards me, and undoubtedly never will, I want to keep my options here open a bit longer. I do not think it's healthy to be put into a position where you have to say goodbye suddenly after a relationship which has lasted10 years, so, change my comments to read;
>
> "respect and appreciation on Bob's part"
>
> "very warm comments"
>
> I was startled that you seemed to think that I wanted to replicate my therapeutic relationship in discussions with you - that seemed to me to be a very inappropriate comment, and is not evenly remotely the case. At the top of this page, you yourself have written, "discussion ..is not therapy". That is a wise statement that is very worth adhering to, not just in your interactions with me, but with the several other posters with whom you have introduced an unrequested therapeutic element.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2014, at 13:38:55
In reply to Re: please rephrase that, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 12:24:34
> OK. although I still do not understand the basis or reasons for your unusually harsh attitude towards me
you hurt him. and he didn't know what else to do / have a better way to deal with that to prevent the situation escalating. wasn't that clear?
sometimes... some people just don't bug us. even though it can be the same thing as stuff that someone else has said. you are usually... caring and supportive with your posts. you don't tend to fly off the handle (when it is clear that you are having a bit of a meltdown so it is easier for others to not take it personally). you don't go around dig dig here and a dig dig there - so it is easier for others not to take it personally.. instead... you are all calm and collected... posting stuff about how Bob doesn't have any feelings. but you hurt him. oh... the irony.
is that the right word??
damn you alanis morissette...
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 15:04:59
In reply to Re: please rephrase that, posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2014, at 13:38:55
>
> you hurt him. and he didn't know what else to do / have a better way to deal with that to prevent the situation escalating. wasn't that clear?Nope. There was no situation to escalate. You are just parroting things he has said in the past. Why doesn't he know a better way? Such as treating everyone equally? Do you think Bob needs professional help? He has been bullying twinleaf for years. This is nothing new. Other people said practically the same thing and he ignored it.
>
> sometimes... some people just don't bug us. even though it can be the same thing as stuff that someone else has said. you are usually... caring and supportive with your posts. you don't tend to fly off the handle (when it is clear that you are having a bit of a meltdown so it is easier for others to not take it personally). you don't go around dig dig here and a dig dig there - so it is easier for others not to take it personally.. instead... you are all calm and collected... posting stuff about how Bob doesn't have any feelings. but you hurt him. oh... the irony.
>
> is that the right word??>
No it's not. I think you are projecting your own feelings about ole Bob on the situation. I think you should explore your fantasy that you are one of the few people capable of understanding Bob. And consider why you need to be his apologist.
Posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 15:22:11
In reply to Very diplomatic » Twinleaf, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 12:52:08
Thanks, HC! Your support and understanding is much appreciated, as is your delightful touch of humor. Let's hope for the best.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2014, at 15:24:58
In reply to Re: puhlease » alexandra_k, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 15:04:59
I think that the great thing about there being lots of people... Is that different people are able to empathise in different respects. I don't feel or believe that I have a special grip on what is going on in Bob's head all or even most of the time... For instance, I simply don't follow the dialogue that he has with Lou... And quite a number of other threads. I don't follow the desire to meet Babblers IRL... There are any number of things I don't understand. I think Dinah had some kind of a special grip on Bob with respect to the civility rules. I think she is probably the only? Prolific poster here who managed not to get blocked.
I've felt like Twinleaf in the past... And maybe still a bit in the present. Why me? Why block me for that? What I said really wasn't even that bad. Look at that worse thing that this other poster posted over there! Wah! Why me? Why you picking on me!?
Maybe...
It was about his saying 'stoppit'. And I didn't. Because I didn't see why I should.
But... Like I said to you over on meds... Enough! Time out! And when you didn't give it to me... Shields go up. But when one is trying ones best to moderate the boards in the interests of the group... Sometimes shields get low... And blocks come out... While shields replenish... Or something...
Maybe that is a way to think of it, anyway.
I know... It is a damn crying shame that he isn't God. That he isn't perfect. That he just has to do the best he can with what he has got... Same as any of us...
Posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 16:06:52
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Twinleaf, posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 12:48:21
No, I'm not. I'd like to know.
Posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 16:27:43
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Ronnjee, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 16:06:52
The Scorpion and the Frog
A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion says, "Because if I do, I will die too". The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown, but has just enough time to gasp, "Why?"Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."
make any sense now?
Posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 16:43:02
In reply to Scorpion and Frog » Twinleaf, posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 16:27:43
It does. I think it captures the essence of what is going on perfectly.
When differences are resolved successfully, there are two winners, but when they aren't, both people lose. I lose my participation in Babble, and Bob - well, he will have to be the one to think about what the loss would be for him.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 23, 2014, at 17:15:42
In reply to Re: Scorpion and Frog » Ronnjee, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 16:43:02
welcome back, by the way. it is good to have you :)
Posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 17:20:01
In reply to Re: Scorpion and Frog » Ronnjee, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 16:43:02
Interesting interpretation, but I was just referring to Bob simply doing what's in his nature.
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 17:42:37
In reply to Re: Scorpion and Frog » Twinleaf, posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 17:20:01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQ6zZ5aID4
I think Bob has made his character apparent through his actions. His words don't impress me much although it is fun to try and figure out his motivation. It's important not to invest much in them. He's not someone I trust based on his actions through the years. Certainly not someone I think is capable of teaching or giving moral guidance to others. Why does anyone expect anything different?
Posted by Ronnjee on January 23, 2014, at 17:52:35
In reply to Re: Scorpion and Frog » Ronnjee, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 23, 2014, at 17:42:37
> I think Bob has made his character apparent through his actions. His words don't impress me much although it is fun to try and figure out his motivation. It's important not to invest much in them. He's not someone I trust based on his actions through the years. Certainly not someone I think is capable of teaching or giving moral guidance to others. Why does anyone expect anything different?
I try really hard not to even attempt to assess another's character, especially online. I have often wondered what Bob is up to, but I honestly don't know. I could only guess, which would be stupid of me. I would prefer to deal with each encounter as it comes, trying not to let earlier encounters "color" my reactions.
Posted by SLS on January 23, 2014, at 23:11:54
In reply to Re: Scorpion and Frog » Ronnjee, posted by Twinleaf on January 23, 2014, at 16:43:02
> It does. I think it captures the essence of what is going on perfectly.
>
> When differences are resolved successfully, there are two winners, but when they aren't, both people lose. I lose my participation in Babble, and Bob - well, he will have to be the one to think about what the loss would be for him.I wouldn't blame you for leaving Psycho-Babble. However, my sense of loss would be great. I missed you these past few weeks, worried that you might not return. You are a good egg :-) - one of the best that I have yet encountered.
Ramble...
I am perplexed by what looks like selective enforcement. Surely, your language has been more civilized than some of vile personal attacks that I have seen posted contemporaneously with your posting block.Why should a cop spend his whole day ticketing jay-walkers while allowing drunk drivers to pass by totally ignored? I don't know, but jay-walking is still against the law. Perhaps the cop thinks that he is saving the jay-walkers' lives because there are so many drunk drivers on the road. Who knows what is going on in the cop's mind.
Navigating Dr. Bob's paradigm for civil speech is not easy. There is a rather steep learning curve. The desire to remain a poster on Psycho-Babble must be greater than the desire to speak freely. Adhering to Dr. Bob's rules of civility is a skill requiring an understanding of diction and grammar, even if only intuitively. The first time around, I felt severely constricted by a new moderation style. The wild West days were over, and I was angry. Well, it was important for me to remain a poster here, so I learned what I needed to in order to avoid being admonished and blocked from posting. I soon recognized the value in having Psycho-Babble moderated, and that learning how to communicate civilly could be an asset to me.
Play by the rules or don't play at all? It's Dr. Bob's game. If those most capable of being civil don't exercise civility, how can others learn by example? Were you uncivil? I think your posts were scrutinized more than those of many others. IRL, I don't think that you were uncivil - at least it didn't seem that way to me. However, I could have predicted Dr. Bob's reaction to your language based upon his rulings during the first era of civility. Perhaps Dr. Bob should allow some more time for people to acclimate themselves to his regulations before scrutinizing language so closely.
- Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on January 24, 2014, at 8:48:27
In reply to Ramble. » Twinleaf, posted by SLS on January 23, 2014, at 23:11:54
Thanks so much, Scott.
I do think it's ironic (even humorous) that I had expressed the wish for a newer, more moderate and flexible kind of moderation ( rather than none at all), and Bob has granted my wish by making me almost the only person he is applying them to! The administrative sanctions he applies to me are not even new or flexible; they are the same as the ones he used five years ago.
I think you are right - that I perhaps have not paid enough attention to what the civility guidelines here actually are. There are times when other considerations seem so much more important - in this case fairness towards Dinah. At times like this, civility guidelines and human consideration for the well-being of community members seem to me to clash.
The only thing that is truly unacceptable to me is that the civility rules are not applied equally. While I am punished for every little thing, others are able to say things which are truly destructive and potentially harmful to both Bob and other community members, and nothing happens. This is harmful - both for me, and for everyone else.
Babble and it's posters have been very valuable to me for the past 10 (!) years; people here, their support and ideas, have been a small but vital part of the recovery I have been able to achieve. I would hate to lose that, but if I continue to be selectively singled out for punishment, it is, sadly, not compatible with good mental health for me to continue on here indefinitely. For me, it has become absolutely vital that the civility rules be applied equally and fairly to all community members.
Posted by SLS on January 24, 2014, at 10:07:32
In reply to Re: Ramble. » SLS, posted by Twinleaf on January 24, 2014, at 8:48:27
> For me, it has become absolutely vital that the civility rules be applied equally and fairly to all community members.
Yes. I couldn't agree with you more. Who wouldn't agree with you? Dr. Bob, I guess.
I think that just because others have learned how to "wear a shield" to discourage retribution, this should not grant a poster a free pass to be uncivil to those who do have shields. You are just about the most reasonable, sober, deliberative, generous, and civil poster here (I could go on, of course, but I am not convinced that you have developed neck muscles strong enough to support a swelled head). I'm not sure how strong your shield is, but why should one need to have a shield at all? I was hoping that Dr. Bob could function as a shield to protect everyone equally. I don't know. Perhaps the best way to prevent being blocked from posting is to beg Dr. Bob to be blocked and write grossly uncivil things. Perhaps the doctor looks at someone doing this as having a pathological "meltdown", in which case the usual rules are suspended. Right now, I don't see much in the way of meltdowns. I see pathology - even my own - but I don't think anyone should be exempt from being judged by the same criteria of civil communication as you are. That doesn't mean that people should necessarily be blocked as they struggle to learn and adapt to the moderation style of Dr. Bob.
- Scott
Posted by Twinleaf on January 24, 2014, at 10:46:39
In reply to Another ramble. » Twinleaf, posted by SLS on January 24, 2014, at 10:07:32
Learning to "wear a shield" against abuse is of course something we must all do occasionally in our daily lives; it seems like a strange goal to have in a board devoted to mental health. A reasonable degree of moderation would allow a much better goal: the increasing development of mutual trust, understanding and compromise - a goal that leads to better mental health. The present goal seems to me to lead to excessive anxiety, watchfulness and suppressed anger - signs of persons who are coping with trauma. Why would one visit a mental health site for that?
I think the criteria used to block me are too severe; they are the same ones that so many people disliked and complained about 5 years ago. I would like to see more occasional, moderate criteria, reserved for clear instances of hurtfulness (not just hurt feelings caused by reasonable reactions to one's own actions), and applied equally to everyone. Reasonable as that is, sadly, I don't think it is going to happen.
Posted by Twinleaf on January 24, 2014, at 14:39:54
In reply to Another ramble. » Twinleaf, posted by SLS on January 24, 2014, at 10:07:32
Scott, in my intense focus on the difficulties I'm personally facing here, I forgot to note how much I appreciate your wonderful ( undeserved) words of affirmation and support. I hope my head doesn't start wobbling! You can be sure that, if I find it's really not healthy for me to stay here, I will take your words with me, and keep them with me always. You are the very best of Babble.
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 24, 2014, at 15:53:07
In reply to Another ramble. » Twinleaf, posted by SLS on January 24, 2014, at 10:07:32
Homer's Brain: Don't you get it? You've gotta use reverse psychology.
Homer: That sounds too complicated.
Homer's Brain: OK, don't use reverse psychology.
Homer: All right, I will!> I don't know. Perhaps the best way to prevent being blocked from posting is to beg Dr. Bob to be blocked
Posted by HomelyCygnet on January 24, 2014, at 16:26:01
In reply to Dr Bob Please please please don't ever block me!, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 24, 2014, at 15:53:07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_psychology
Must set a good example for Bob re proper attribution.
Posted by Twinleaf on January 24, 2014, at 19:04:33
In reply to Dr Bob Please please please don't ever block me!, posted by HomelyCygnet on January 24, 2014, at 15:53:07
It might be too late for me to try that maneuver, but it does seem to have worked in the past!
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