![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 124 to 148 of 180. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 25, 2009, at 20:28:15
In reply to Re: Lou's request for a perspective-difprspc » Lou Pilder, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 18:51:12
> Hi Lou,
>
> I haven't been following many threads so much anymore on Babble, but I wanted to tell you something.
> I grew up in a community that was very religious of a certain type of religion. I of course didn't belong to any church, because I wasn't brought up with religion, and I was shunned a lot by others even as a child. I wasn't allowed to date others because I didn't belong to their church, some of my friends couldn't even spend the night at my house, and as a young girl, that was huge to have slumber parties. I know what it is like to be in the minority, and I know that sometimes people just don't understand how it feels. They don't even understand that they are being prejudice either.
> I personally believe there are fine people of all faiths, but there are also some rotten eggs in all faiths too.
> Keep fighting for what you believe in Lou, I admire your stamina, but I will be leaving Babble soon for good, so take care.You wrote,[...what you believe in...]
Could you post here what you see here that I believe in?
Lou
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 20:33:21
In reply to Re:, posted by gardenergirl on January 25, 2009, at 19:44:25
Well it might not feel nice, but it is nice to be able to do something when they feel someone is being uncivil towards them. Regular posters have to use the notify button , and hope that someone on the other end helps them take care of it, which could take a long time.
Normal posters aren't allowed to say ANYTHING, or it would be uncivil, and deputies can not only warn, but block, even in their own conversations with someone on the board.
So while it might not be "nice", they do have protection that regular posters don't.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 20:35:35
In reply to Lou's reply-danithzathzneiz » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by Lou Pilder on January 25, 2009, at 20:28:15
Well I haven't kept up on all your messages, but I could take a guess that you believe all religions should be accepted here on Babble and have the same rules apply to all regions on Babble. But again, I am just guessing..
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 20:55:48
In reply to Re:, posted by gardenergirl on January 25, 2009, at 19:44:25
So do you have empirical research data to support your thoughts? lol
Sorry some of my client's attitude is rubbing off on me! lol
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 20:56:49
In reply to Re:, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 20:55:48
Posted by Sigismund on January 25, 2009, at 21:29:30
In reply to Lou's reply to Sigismund- » Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on January 25, 2009, at 20:18:28
>I am unsure as to if you are wanting to mean that you believe those aspects of your post to be true universally, or if you believe those aspects to be true to you but not proven fact or something else.
They are true to me and as of this time, I really think they are correct.
Lou, I hope I get where you are coming from.
The events of the last century must never be repeated.
It is worth remembering that Pius was so slack on the issue because he was completely freaked by the treatment of Christianity by Bolshevism, (which in turn was made possible by the behaviour of the European powers). John XXIII, though, when in (maybe?) Trieste threatened the local dangerous person (I forget these details) with excommunication and publicity, and the deportations never went ahead.
But what are we to say?
The history of humanity is a frightful nightmare.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 26, 2009, at 18:57:16
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Sigismund- » Lou Pilder, posted by Sigismund on January 25, 2009, at 21:29:30
> >I am unsure as to if you are wanting to mean that you believe those aspects of your post to be true universally, or if you believe those aspects to be true to you but not proven fact or something else.
>
> They are true to me and as of this time, I really think they are correct.
>
> Lou, I hope I get where you are coming from.
>
> The events of the last century must never be repeated.
>
> It is worth remembering that Pius was so slack on the issue because he was completely freaked by the treatment of Christianity by Bolshevism, (which in turn was made possible by the behaviour of the European powers). John XXIII, though, when in (maybe?) Trieste threatened the local dangerous person (I forget these details) with excommunication and publicity, and the deportations never went ahead.
>
> But what are we to say?
>
> The history of humanity is a frightful nightmare.Sigismund,
You wrote,[...I hope I get where you are comming from...].
Could you continue to write some more concerning that?
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on January 27, 2009, at 23:47:53
In reply to Lou's request for a continuance-wropapohp » Sigismund, posted by Lou Pilder on January 26, 2009, at 18:57:16
Lou
I guess that as a Jew you are determined that this must never happen again and that at any time and place (such as here) you will do what you can to expose and criticise antisemitism and the roots of it.
And this is why you make the demands on Admin that you do.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 28, 2009, at 15:29:12
In reply to Re: Lou's request for a continuance-wropapohp » Lou Pilder, posted by Sigismund on January 27, 2009, at 23:47:53
> Lou
>
> I guess that as a Jew you are determined that this must never happen again and that at any time and place (such as here) you will do what you can to expose and criticise antisemitism and the roots of it.
>
> And this is why you make the demands on Admin that you do.Sigismund,
You wrote,[...never..again...you will do what you can...that is why you make (requests)on admin that you do...].
What can be seen here can be seen. But what can be seen sometimes needs to have discovery as to understanding for myself what the official line could be here so that I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly, so I do make requests for discovery for that reason.
You have posted many things here that show IMO that you have a great understanding of the history of the Jewish people and I appreciate those posts.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 29, 2009, at 9:17:48
In reply to Re: » gardenergirl, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on January 25, 2009, at 20:33:21
> Somehow, this seems punitive.
I can see how it might seem punitive in the sense of "a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure". But I didn't intend it as "suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution".
> Getting PBC's off the boards actually hurts more than a public slapping of the hand. I guess if one of them results in a block, no one will even know that I'm gone. Where's the transparency gone around here?
>
> PartlyCloudyThere are pros and cons to both ways. I'm sure both can hurt. If someone's blocked off the boards and wants others to know, we can post something.
--
> It must be nice to be a deputy, to sanction posts made against one's self.
> if you are personally involved in a thread, a please be civil ... seems ... to be an abuse of power or unfairness due to a power differential between the both of you.
> Regular posters have to use the notify button , and hope that someone on the other end helps them take care of it, which could take a long time.
>
> SlugSlimersSoSlidedThat's true, regular posters have less power. They have to depend on us, and being dependent can be stressful.
OTOH, with power comes responsibility, and having responsibility can be stressful, too. I think the deputies use their power responsibly. In some ways, regular posters have more freedom.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 31, 2009, at 9:46:13
In reply to Re: power differential, posted by Dr. Bob on January 29, 2009, at 9:17:48
> > Somehow, this seems punitive.
>
> I can see how it might seem punitive in the sense of "a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure". But I didn't intend it as "suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution".
>
> > Getting PBC's off the boards actually hurts more than a public slapping of the hand. I guess if one of them results in a block, no one will even know that I'm gone. Where's the transparency gone around here?
> >
> > PartlyCloudy
>
> There are pros and cons to both ways. I'm sure both can hurt. If someone's blocked off the boards and wants others to know, we can post something.
>
> --
>
> > It must be nice to be a deputy, to sanction posts made against one's self.
>
> > if you are personally involved in a thread, a please be civil ... seems ... to be an abuse of power or unfairness due to a power differential between the both of you.
>
> > Regular posters have to use the notify button , and hope that someone on the other end helps them take care of it, which could take a long time.
> >
> > SlugSlimersSoSlided
>
> That's true, regular posters have less power. They have to depend on us, and being dependent can be stressful.
>
> OTOH, with power comes responsibility, and having responsibility can be stressful, too. I think the deputies use their power responsibly. In some ways, regular posters have more freedom.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...with power comes {responsibility}...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to include as a {responsibility} here. Could you post here a list of identifications of some of the responsibilities that you are referring to? If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 31, 2009, at 11:18:20
In reply to Lou's request for identifications-whtrdehy? » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on January 31, 2009, at 9:46:13
> > > Somehow, this seems punitive.
> >
> > I can see how it might seem punitive in the sense of "a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure". But I didn't intend it as "suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution".
> >
> > > Getting PBC's off the boards actually hurts more than a public slapping of the hand. I guess if one of them results in a block, no one will even know that I'm gone. Where's the transparency gone around here?
> > >
> > > PartlyCloudy
> >
> > There are pros and cons to both ways. I'm sure both can hurt. If someone's blocked off the boards and wants others to know, we can post something.
> >
> > --
> >
> > > It must be nice to be a deputy, to sanction posts made against one's self.
> >
> > > if you are personally involved in a thread, a please be civil ... seems ... to be an abuse of power or unfairness due to a power differential between the both of you.
> >
> > > Regular posters have to use the notify button , and hope that someone on the other end helps them take care of it, which could take a long time.
> > >
> > > SlugSlimersSoSlided
> >
> > That's true, regular posters have less power. They have to depend on us, and being dependent can be stressful.
> >
> > OTOH, with power comes responsibility, and having responsibility can be stressful, too. I think the deputies use their power responsibly. In some ways, regular posters have more freedom.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You wrote,[...with power comes {responsibility}...].
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to include as a {responsibility} here. Could you post here a list of identifications of some of the responsibilities that you are referring to? If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> Lou PilderMr. Hsiung,
In regards to my concerns as to what you are wanting to identify here as a {responsibility}, a generally accepted mesaning of {responsibility} is something that one is to be responsible for.
Then to be {responsible}, a generally accepted meaning is that the one responsible has an obligation or duty to perform or answer to or something that the conscience would bind someone to perform or restrict. It could be a service assigned.
In any reply to me here could you include if the functions of the administration here are {responsibilities} or not under my understanding of what the generally accepted meaning of the word purports? If you could , then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 31, 2009, at 11:27:37
In reply to Hmmm...., posted by Dinah on January 25, 2009, at 16:23:29
> > Since there seems to be a substantial opinion that this should be ok under site guidelines,
>
> I do believe I made my own leap to conclusions there. I'm sorry for that. It's all too easy to do.
>
> However, it hasn't come up before, so I'll ask Dr. Bob.Dinah,
Under the circumstances from what you have written above, would you be willing to redact the sanction to me here untill Mr. Hsiung rules on your request to him to make a rulling?
If you could, then if Mr. Hsiung does post his rulling, then I could then follow his policy from thast point on since this has not come up before?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2009, at 11:42:00
In reply to Lou's request for a redaction-ehcsphostphaktogh? » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on January 31, 2009, at 11:27:37
He has commented on it to me. He believes my interpretation was correct, so please don't ask the board at large to give their opinions about what a poster meant by their post.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2009, at 11:08:17
In reply to Re: Lou's request for a redaction-ehcsphostphaktogh? » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2009, at 11:42:00
> He has commented on it to me. He believes my interpretation was correct, so please don't ask the board at large to give their opinions about what a poster meant by their post.
Dinah,
You wrote,[...don't ask...to give their {opinions} about what a poster meant...]
I am unsure as to what this could mean. Could then a member ask others to post what they consider to be {fact} about what a poster means by their post?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2009, at 11:31:16
In reply to Lou's reply-facquvsohpin » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2009, at 11:08:17
> At this time, if you could post your opinions, if anyone has them, here after reading this post, then I think that I could have a better understanding of what Dinah is wanting to mean by using your opinions and then respond accordingly.
This is what Dr. Bob agreed was in violation of civility guidelines.
> Could then a member ask others to post what they consider to be {fact} about what a poster means by their post?
It would also be a violation of the site's civility guidelines to ask other posters to post what they consider to be fact about another poster's posts.
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2009, at 12:07:40
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-facquvsohpin » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2009, at 11:31:16
> > At this time, if you could post your opinions, if anyone has them, here after reading this post, then I think that I could have a better understanding of what Dinah is wanting to mean by using your opinions and then respond accordingly.
>
> This is what Dr. Bob agreed was in violation of civility guidelines.
>
> > Could then a member ask others to post what they consider to be {fact} about what a poster means by their post?
>
> It would also be a violation of the site's civility guidelines to ask other posters to post what they consider to be fact about another poster's posts.Dinah,
I am still unsure about all that this could mean. For instance, you wrote,[...It would be a violation...to {ask other posters} to post what they consider to be fact about another poster's post...]. Now is it that it is the {asking} that is the issue? If so, then could members post what they {believe} about what something in another member's post means if they are not asked by another poster here?
For instance, could someone post,[...I think that (unnamed poster) meant XXX when he/she posted YYY...]?
Or in another case, could someone here post,[...Sigmund Freud meant ZZZ in his writing QQQ in his book on dreams...]
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 3, 2009, at 10:06:23
In reply to Lou's reply-nohoazch? » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on February 1, 2009, at 12:07:40
> > > At this time, if you could post your opinions, if anyone has them, here after reading this post, then I think that I could have a better understanding of what Dinah is wanting to mean by using your opinions and then respond accordingly.
> >
> > This is what Dr. Bob agreed was in violation of civility guidelines.
> >
> > > Could then a member ask others to post what they consider to be {fact} about what a poster means by their post?
> >
> > It would also be a violation of the site's civility guidelines to ask other posters to post what they consider to be fact about another poster's posts.
>
> Dinah,
> I am still unsure about all that this could mean. For instance, you wrote,[...It would be a violation...to {ask other posters} to post what they consider to be fact about another poster's post...]. Now is it that it is the {asking} that is the issue? If so, then could members post what they {believe} about what something in another member's post means if they are not asked by another poster here?
> For instance, could someone post,[...I think that (unnamed poster) meant XXX when he/she posted YYY...]?
> Or in another case, could someone here post,[...Sigmund Freud meant ZZZ in his writing QQQ in his book on dreams...]
> Lou
>Here is a link to a post that I think could be relevant to this discussion.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20061123/msgs/718638.html
Posted by fayeroe on February 27, 2009, at 9:51:20
In reply to Please be civil » Lou Pilder, posted by Deputy Dinah on January 25, 2009, at 12:11:24
""Also, please do not ask others to post their opinions as to what any given poster meant by what they said. This would be encouraging other posters to jump to conclusions, which would be against site guidelines."
What if the other posters were able to not jump to conclusions? This isn't exactly a herd of sheep or a whatever of lemmings.
I saw no pressure in Lou's message.
Posted by Sigismund on February 27, 2009, at 14:20:21
In reply to Please be civil » Lou Pilder, posted by Deputy Dinah on January 25, 2009, at 12:11:24
>Also, please do not ask others to post their opinions as to what any given poster meant by what they said. This would be encouraging other posters to jump to conclusions, which would be against site guidelines.
This feels to me as if the objection is simply to Lou's posting style.
Posted by fayeroe on February 27, 2009, at 14:28:20
In reply to Re: power differential, posted by Dr. Bob on January 29, 2009, at 9:17:48
> > Somehow, this seems punitive.
>
> I can see how it might seem punitive in the sense of "a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure". But I didn't intend it as "suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution".
>
> > Getting PBC's off the boards actually hurts more than a public slapping of the hand. I guess if one of them results in a block, no one will even know that I'm gone. Where's the transparency gone around here?
> >
> > PartlyCloudy
>
> There are pros and cons to both ways. I'm sure both can hurt. If someone's blocked off the boards and wants others to know, we can post something.
>
> --
>
> > It must be nice to be a deputy, to sanction posts made against one's self.
>
> > if you are personally involved in a thread, a please be civil ... seems ... to be an abuse of power or unfairness due to a power differential between the both of you.
>
> > Regular posters have to use the notify button , and hope that someone on the other end helps them take care of it, which could take a long time.
> >
> > SlugSlimersSoSlided
>
> That's true, regular posters have less power. They have to depend on us, and being dependent can be stressful.
>
> OTOH, with power comes responsibility, and having responsibility can be stressful, too. I think the deputies use their power responsibly. In some ways, regular posters have more freedom.
>
> BobI have an island in Arizona.................
Posted by Deputy Dinah on February 27, 2009, at 21:58:38
In reply to Re: power differential » Dr. Bob, posted by fayeroe on February 27, 2009, at 14:28:20
> I have an island in Arizona.................
Please respect the views of others even if you think they're wrong. Please don't be sarcastic.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
If you choose to post anything on board about this decision, please do not post anything that could lead others, including posters who act as deputies, to feel accused or put down.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2009, at 10:25:10
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by Sigismund on February 27, 2009, at 14:20:21
Friends,
I am preparing a response to aspects of this thread and if you could email me with any input that you may have concerning any of the aspects that can be seen in this thread or parallel threads, I could then use your input in my posted response without posting your name here.
I am circulating this thread widely with my collegues and it could be in other data bases also.
Members's posts here bring out various aspects and Dena's posts are of a particular nature and others also. If you could read all the posts in this thread if you are going to email me, I think that that could give you a better understanding of the issues involved in the thread and in parallel threads also. If you would want me to reply to any email from you with spacific posts to save time for you, I could do that.
In Sigismund's post about my {style}, it is my concern that I would like to respond to member's statements if I could rightly divide what a member here posts. This could then have me have a want for clarification as to be able to divide a statement so that I do not jump to a conclusion concerning what could be purpoted in another member's statement.
I sometimes ask others for their opinions, which in my understanding is different from a conclusion because an opinion lacks the requierd componants to substantiate a conclusion, or then it could be a conclusion if it had the requierd substantiation. Also, my requests are just that, requests which are at the option of the member to respond or not to my requests. These requests give me the opportunity to respond according to any reply to my requests, for without a reply I do not have the opportunity to respond unless I guess, which could be a jump to a conclsion as to what the member is wanting to mean.
So please state in any email to me as to if what you are writing is to be meant as an opinion or a conclusion with the idea that substantiating references could be supplied if needed.
If you would like to email me but do not want for your address to be known, another way is to set up a Yahoo or other email account or email to a member that emails to me that you also email with and the email could be forwarded to me from the other member without your address given to me.
I sm in particular being of interest in any concerns that you may have concerning statements here that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings or have the potential to lead a Jew to feel put down/accused that are allowed to stand without being notated by the administration as being uncivil in the thread where they first are posted. If you would like some of those directly, I could give you them by email. Also, I am interested in any member's here thoughts that they could send me by email concerning the requests here by me to the administration that are outstanding as can be seen on this board now and in the archives as to your opinion concerning those.
Lou
lpilder_1188@fuse.net
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2009, at 11:03:22
In reply to Lou's request to members by email-, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2009, at 10:25:10
> Friends,
> I am preparing a response to aspects of this thread and if you could email me with any input that you may have concerning any of the aspects that can be seen in this thread or parallel threads, I could then use your input in my posted response without posting your name here.
> I am circulating this thread widely with my collegues and it could be in other data bases also.
> Members's posts here bring out various aspects and Dena's posts are of a particular nature and others also. If you could read all the posts in this thread if you are going to email me, I think that that could give you a better understanding of the issues involved in the thread and in parallel threads also. If you would want me to reply to any email from you with spacific posts to save time for you, I could do that.
> In Sigismund's post about my {style}, it is my concern that I would like to respond to member's statements if I could rightly divide what a member here posts. This could then have me have a want for clarification as to be able to divide a statement so that I do not jump to a conclusion concerning what could be purpoted in another member's statement.
> I sometimes ask others for their opinions, which in my understanding is different from a conclusion because an opinion lacks the requierd componants to substantiate a conclusion, or then it could be a conclusion if it had the requierd substantiation. Also, my requests are just that, requests which are at the option of the member to respond or not to my requests. These requests give me the opportunity to respond according to any reply to my requests, for without a reply I do not have the opportunity to respond unless I guess, which could be a jump to a conclsion as to what the member is wanting to mean.
> So please state in any email to me as to if what you are writing is to be meant as an opinion or a conclusion with the idea that substantiating references could be supplied if needed.
> If you would like to email me but do not want for your address to be known, another way is to set up a Yahoo or other email account or email to a member that emails to me that you also email with and the email could be forwarded to me from the other member without your address given to me.
> I sm in particular being of interest in any concerns that you may have concerning statements here that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings or have the potential to lead a Jew to feel put down/accused that are allowed to stand without being notated by the administration as being uncivil in the thread where they first are posted. If you would like some of those directly, I could give you them by email. Also, I am interested in any member's here thoughts that they could send me by email concerning the requests here by me to the administration that are outstanding as can be seen on this board now and in the archives as to your opinion concerning those.
> Lou
> lpilder_1188@fuse.net
>Friends,
Here is a link to a thread's posts that I would like to include for your review if you like.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/admin/20070304/msgs/744164.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2009, at 11:44:01
In reply to Lou's request to members by email-thread, posted by Lou Pilder on February 28, 2009, at 11:03:22
> > Friends,
> > I am preparing a response to aspects of this thread and if you could email me with any input that you may have concerning any of the aspects that can be seen in this thread or parallel threads, I could then use your input in my posted response without posting your name here.
> > I am circulating this thread widely with my collegues and it could be in other data bases also.
> > Members's posts here bring out various aspects and Dena's posts are of a particular nature and others also. If you could read all the posts in this thread if you are going to email me, I think that that could give you a better understanding of the issues involved in the thread and in parallel threads also. If you would want me to reply to any email from you with spacific posts to save time for you, I could do that.
> > In Sigismund's post about my {style}, it is my concern that I would like to respond to member's statements if I could rightly divide what a member here posts. This could then have me have a want for clarification as to be able to divide a statement so that I do not jump to a conclusion concerning what could be purpoted in another member's statement.
> > I sometimes ask others for their opinions, which in my understanding is different from a conclusion because an opinion lacks the requierd componants to substantiate a conclusion, or then it could be a conclusion if it had the requierd substantiation. Also, my requests are just that, requests which are at the option of the member to respond or not to my requests. These requests give me the opportunity to respond according to any reply to my requests, for without a reply I do not have the opportunity to respond unless I guess, which could be a jump to a conclsion as to what the member is wanting to mean.
> > So please state in any email to me as to if what you are writing is to be meant as an opinion or a conclusion with the idea that substantiating references could be supplied if needed.
> > If you would like to email me but do not want for your address to be known, another way is to set up a Yahoo or other email account or email to a member that emails to me that you also email with and the email could be forwarded to me from the other member without your address given to me.
> > I sm in particular being of interest in any concerns that you may have concerning statements here that IMO have the potential to arrouse antisemitic feelings or have the potential to lead a Jew to feel put down/accused that are allowed to stand without being notated by the administration as being uncivil in the thread where they first are posted. If you would like some of those directly, I could give you them by email. Also, I am interested in any member's here thoughts that they could send me by email concerning the requests here by me to the administration that are outstanding as can be seen on this board now and in the archives as to your opinion concerning those.
> > Lou
> > lpilder_1188@fuse.net
> >
>
> Friends,
> Here is a link to a thread's posts that I would like to include for your review if you like.
> Lou
> http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl?post=/babble/admin/20070304/msgs/744164.html
>Friends,
Here is a link to a post that brings up a thread.If you could examine the posts there, I think that some aspects of the issues here could be clearer. Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/429282.html
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