![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 138. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on March 12, 2008, at 18:48:11
In reply to Lou's reply to twinleaf-tilthcwzcumhom » twinleaf, posted by Lou Pilder on March 12, 2008, at 18:41:04
Interesting is all I will say now but a question are e-mails private if sent to you that are not nice as can't understand how private communications between anyone not on the site have anything to do with authority and civility here. If so I have a ton of uncivil e-mails to me filed. So keep or delete? Love Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 20:16:09
In reply to Re: I have to agree... » twinleaf, posted by ClearSkies on March 12, 2008, at 18:14:22
My sentiments exactly!!!! And furthermore, I am saddened that Bob has left us to wither and die like a worm on a hook with no seeming care about our feelings. It is all fine and good for Dinah to tell us that he cares, but for me actions speak louder than words and his silence speaks volumes.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on March 12, 2008, at 20:19:49
In reply to I have to agree..., posted by twinleaf on March 12, 2008, at 17:18:01
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 20:45:25
In reply to dinah..., posted by adelaide curtis on March 12, 2008, at 10:43:37
I've said I was sorry. I can't do anything more than that.
I didn't expect this, and I tried to stop it all along the way. Maybe I didn't do well, but I tried.
People are angry with me. Ok, they're angry. I can't undo the past. And I didn't mean to hurt anyone.
Feel free to express as much anger at me as you wish. I *can't do anything about it*. Would I do it differently if I had to do it over again? Yes. Because I had no idea any of this would happen.
People might not believe me. That's fine. I am what I am. I'm not perfect, I never pretended to be. But I tried to speak honestly, I tried to stop the snowballing distress when I saw what was happening.
Please feel free to petition Dr. Bob to remove me as deputy if you believe I'm unfit.
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 21:11:13
In reply to Re: dinah..., posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 20:45:25
I never understood any of this. I tried to make clear from the beginning that I didn't blame Dr. Bob for this, that I took responsibility for my issues, and that Dr. Bob was doing what he thought was best.
I wasn't trying to incite anything. I didn't even want people to be mad at Dr. Bob at all.
I knew people would be angry, and I chose to come back anyway and face that. I take total responsibility for my part in starting this, even if I didn't have any earthy idea that this would happen, or even that Dr. Bob was unavailable.
I'm not going to defend myself. Whatever my intentions, I did cause this. I did cause pain and distress. I would not do that willingly for the world. But I did. Intentions don't count.
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 21:14:19
In reply to Re: dinah..., posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 20:45:25
Dinah,
I think it might help if you explain your postiion so that people understand a little better. I did read your post a few times and kind of got the gist of what you were saying but didn't totally get it.. But it is up to you of course. I know that you didn't mean to hurt anyone and when you made your decision public. It is bob who has hurt everyone here. You may have made a mistake in making your decision public but we all make mistakes. What bob did by ignoring all of us and causing so much pain is inexcusable. We are all reminded to be sensitive and civil and he has hurt so mnay people that it is shameful.
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 21:27:22
In reply to Re: dinah... » Dinah, posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 21:14:19
I thought I had explained everything. I've explained everything that I know about as soon as Dr. Bob told me I could.
If there's anything anyone doesn't understand, I think they'll probably have to ask me questions, because in my mind I've explained it and I wouldn't know what people were wanting me to say.
Posted by Fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 21:49:42
In reply to Re: dinah..., posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 21:11:13
Dinah said "I wasn't trying to incite anything. I didn't even want people to be mad at Dr. Bob at all."
I've seen the administration cause enormous pain for the posters here and true to form, Bob goes scot free. It would be refreshing if just one time , no one enabled his irresponsible behavior.
Dinah, I have to ask you this, did you think through what might happen to the site when you and Bob started down the slippery slope of the private discussions (that you then hinted at in your posts) concerning rule changes for PB?The safety of the posters here should be the first concern of the administration.
Can you imagine a CEO and a vice-president of a large corporation handling personal differences the way this played out? Surely you understand the complexities of a large mental health support site and what the reactions will be of people left in the dark.
I do not think you should have made any of it public. As several have said, you have a direct pipeline to him and the posters don't have that priviledge.
I'm going to change this old saying, somewhat, as I don't want it to sound as harsh as it is orginally, "the road to chaos is paved with good intentions".
This is my last word on this mess as I refuse to provide anything else for Bob's projects.
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 22:01:42
In reply to Re: dinah... » Dinah, posted by Fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 21:49:42
You're right. I should have just left without saying anything.
I'm sorry.
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 22:16:45
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to twinleaf's post » Lou Pilder, posted by twinleaf on March 12, 2008, at 18:18:58
unfortunately twinleaf, there is no talking things out here.. I think I can talk all i want and admin is not going to listen. we can talk things out among ourselves but we are powerless to make any changes so it is kind of pointless
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 22:18:35
In reply to Re: dinah... » Fayeroe, posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 22:01:42
I think you were looking from support from your friends, dinah.. I probably would have done the same..Don;'t beat yourself up over this. It will pass.
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 22:35:34
In reply to Re: dinah... » Dinah, posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 22:18:35
That isn't what happened. I know people might think that. And I know people might think I was trying to blackmail Dr. Bob.
Anyone who knows me knows I'm a pragmatist. I don't try to change what I don't think can be changed. I just decide whether or not I can live with it. I just decide how best to proceed given what is inevitable. I used to tilt at windmills, but I don't any more. I've quit banging my head on walls. I accepted that Dr. Bob had his heart set on this. I recognized with my therapist's help that I couldn't play my role. So I did what I needed to do to stop the pain. Only to see this whole humongous thing happen.
I realize now that it wasn't so much my leaving as my telling part of why I was leaving without feeling free to tell it all without Dr. Bob's permission. I didn't want to get in trouble, as stupid as that sounds when I was leaving anyway.
And I'm glad it wasn't because I was leaving. It scared me to see what happened. It didn't make me feel better at all. Being Dinah is scary sometimes. People seem to think I'm someone that I'm not. It's a relief to know that it's because I screwed up, although I'm very sorry I screwed up.
For the record, Dr. Bob didn't ask me to explain. I've been trying to do everything I know how to calm this all down since I realized what was happening. I tried to calm it down by posting even when I really needed to stay away and get some distance. I asked Dr. Bob if I could explain because I stupidly hoped it might help. But I should have realized it wouldn't. I screwed up again.
Also, for the record, I told Dr. Bob he should address Admin before he addressed me. But I didn't refuse to discuss it if he didn't address Admin first. I guess I screwed up there too.
Posted by star008 on March 12, 2008, at 22:43:34
In reply to Re: dinah... » star008, posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 22:35:34
sorry dinah if I misunderstood.. I do think you are trying to make the best decisions you can and this thing has just snowballed out of control.. maybe it IS time to step back a bit. I think you were trying to give babblers some relief by explaining since bob obviously isn't going to show up.
Posted by All Done on March 12, 2008, at 22:53:40
In reply to Re: dinah... » star008, posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 22:35:34
Dinah,
I would have worried if you just disappeared without any explanation. I would have wondered if you were still a deputy. I would have missed you.
I understand why you didn't just leave without saying anything. And, I'm guessing, had you simply announced that you were no longer a deputy and were leaving the site, other posters would have questioned and perhaps even tried to demand an explanation. You told us what you felt you could upfront, and I appreciate you doing so.
Please don't beat yourself up over this. FWIW, I know you didn't intend for this to happen.
((((((((((Dinah))))))))))
Take gentle care of yourself.
Hugs,
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 23:34:34
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by All Done on March 12, 2008, at 22:53:40
Thanks Laurie.
I really appreciate that.
Posted by MidnightBlue on March 12, 2008, at 23:56:51
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by All Done on March 12, 2008, at 22:53:40
Ditto
Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2008, at 0:00:59
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))) » All Done, posted by MidnightBlue on March 12, 2008, at 23:56:51
Me three.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2008, at 0:01:39
In reply to so, get off my back! (nm) » gardenergirl, posted by adelaide curtis on March 12, 2008, at 14:49:14
Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2008, at 0:20:36
In reply to I have to agree..., posted by twinleaf on March 12, 2008, at 17:18:01
> with Adelaide. Dinah is, of course, fully entitled to make any decisions she would like, and is also entitled to change her mind if circumstances warrant. I do feel very badly about her doing it in such a public manner, with dozens of posts giving her reasons for leaving, followed by many further ones explaining, to a minimal extent, why she has decided to stay.
Dozens? Seriously? My impression is much lower.
> I think that, in the future, deputies should be more responsible in how they use Administration posting in working out problems with Bob.
I didn't see any posts from Dinah or any other deputy that were there to "work out problems with [Dr.] Bob". Instead, I saw posts from Dinah explaining as best she could under the circumstances that she was leaving. Any "working things out" between Dinah and Dr. Bob seemed to occur privately, as appropriate.
>Numbers of posters picked up on Dinah's anger and frustration- these feelings became our own, and many of us are still feeling them. Unlike Dinah, we have no way of resolving them.
Yikes, of course you have ways to resolve feelings. Perhaps if folks examine their feelings and reactions and parse out what parts they've "picked up" from Dinah, what parts are their own, what parts are about this event specifically and what parts are about something else in the poster's experiences; well perhaps they could make progress in resolving them independently. I think it's adaptive and helpful to do so as it puts the power for resolution back where it belongs, in the individual versus in someone or something separate from the individual.
>
> I feel confident that it was inadvertent on her part, but I think that Dinah, by posting so extensively about her own concerns and anger at Bob over some rule changes, set the stage for the entire community to adopt and magnify her original anger and frustration and then make those feelings their own.Perhaps she assumed that her feelings and reactions were uniquely hers, just as the feelings and reactions of others are uniquely theirs. Perhaps she counted on the power of adequate and appropriate boundaries to mitigate any influence her personal decision might have on others.
> Unlike Dinah, we have no communication channel, public or private by which to work out those feelings. They are festering here, damaging the whole community. For this reason, I would like to ask Dinah to be more careful in the future. As a deputy, she has private ways of alleviating her concerns.
And if she were posting about leaving in order to alleviate her concerns, I might agree with you. But I did not get that impression from Dinah's posts about this. If anything, it appeared she was trying to alleviate others' potential concerns instead of just disappearing. That's my impression, anyway.
> She should not be using her position to incite anger and dissatisfaction in the Babble community as a whole.
I agree with you here. No deputy or poster should. So it's good that that's not what happened here, eh?
gg
Posted by Sigismund on March 13, 2008, at 2:08:52
In reply to Re: dinah..., posted by Dinah on March 12, 2008, at 20:45:25
Dinah
Don't be ridiculous.
Of course I'm not angry with you.
Anyway, IMO, these troubles, they come from ourselves.
Of course the civility rules suck.
But anyway....
Posted by AbbieNormal on March 13, 2008, at 6:22:27
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))), posted by All Done on March 12, 2008, at 22:53:40
You mean she's human???
Casting stones...blah blah. Must be nice to be perfect, eh? :-)
Abbie
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2008, at 7:49:48
In reply to Re: dinah... » Dinah, posted by Fayeroe on March 12, 2008, at 21:49:42
> Dinah said "I wasn't trying to incite anything. I didn't even want people to be mad at Dr. Bob at all."
>
> I've seen the administration cause enormous pain for the posters here and true to form, Bob goes scot free. It would be refreshing if just one time , no one enabled his irresponsible behavior.
>
>
> Dinah, I have to ask you this, did you think through what might happen to the site when you and Bob started down the slippery slope of the private discussions (that you then hinted at in your posts) concerning rule changes for PB?
>
> The safety of the posters here should be the first concern of the administration.
>
> Can you imagine a CEO and a vice-president of a large corporation handling personal differences the way this played out? Surely you understand the complexities of a large mental health support site and what the reactions will be of people left in the dark.
>
> I do not think you should have made any of it public. As several have said, you have a direct pipeline to him and the posters don't have that priviledge.
>
> I'm going to change this old saying, somewhat, as I don't want it to sound as harsh as it is orginally, "the road to chaos is paved with good intentions".
>
> This is my last word on this mess as I refuse to provide anything else for Bob's projects.fayeroe,
You wrote,[...I've seen...first concern...mental health support site...left in the dark...you have..posters don't...word on this...]
What you have posted points out that the administration wants to have the community to have an access to the administrator that governs his assistants. The TOS of Mr. Hsiung writes this in his statement that he wants to have feedback. Further, whatever is done here could be thought to be for the good of the group because the TOS here writes that he does what in his thinking will be good for the community as a whole and that what he does is with in some way {fair} and to {trust} him that what is done is to that concept.
So I think that with that type of TOS here, members have rightfully thought that they have an expectation that the administration will deliver what they write as the {Terms Of Service} to the members. Since members are expressing in their posts their feelings as a result of the TOS in relation to them not receiving feedback from Mr. Hsiung yet, I think that members could feel that since they abide by the rules in the terms of service here for them, that Mr. Hsiung, that writes that he wants feedback, also abide by his terms of service to the members.
In all respect to Dinah, let us reason that if Mr. Hsiung was to have posted in the innitiation of this, then would all of this have happened?
Then there is IMO the concern that Mr. Hsiung's not posting concerniing this situation yet, when he was communicating with Dinah, could lead some others to have the potential to think things about as to why he has not posted here when he was communicating with Dinah. That could IMO have the potential to cause the emotional/ psychological feelings that members are posting about.
I think that for the good of the community as a whole, we could focus on a remedy for those members here that are experiancing problematic psychological/emotional states as a result of this situation. One way suggested is to have discussion continually untill a remedy happens. I think that that is a good idea but in my experiance there is much more to that such as:
A.IMO. a moderator that is impartial to the situation could be appointed untill Mr. Hsiung returns to the forum. Perhaps someone from the University of Chicago could be contacted to enter the forum as a member and moderate the discussion.
B. another solution IMO could be to set up something like an instant messaging system for interested members to participate in off the forum's control.
C. another solution IMO could be close the forum in its entirerty untill Mr. Hsiung returns to the forum.
D. Another solution IMO would be to delete all the threads concerning this situation.
E. Another solution IMO could be for Mr. Hsiung to provide a buddy of his to take his place
F. Another solution IMO would be to change the TOS here and delete the part that feedback is wanted from the members.
G. other good and just solutions.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2008, at 8:23:36
In reply to Lou's reply to fayeroe's post-noghwrtotrn » Fayeroe, posted by Lou Pilder on March 13, 2008, at 7:49:48
> > Dinah said "I wasn't trying to incite anything. I didn't even want people to be mad at Dr. Bob at all."
> >
> > I've seen the administration cause enormous pain for the posters here and true to form, Bob goes scot free. It would be refreshing if just one time , no one enabled his irresponsible behavior.
> >
> >
> > Dinah, I have to ask you this, did you think through what might happen to the site when you and Bob started down the slippery slope of the private discussions (that you then hinted at in your posts) concerning rule changes for PB?
> >
> > The safety of the posters here should be the first concern of the administration.
> >
> > Can you imagine a CEO and a vice-president of a large corporation handling personal differences the way this played out? Surely you understand the complexities of a large mental health support site and what the reactions will be of people left in the dark.
> >
> > I do not think you should have made any of it public. As several have said, you have a direct pipeline to him and the posters don't have that priviledge.
> >
> > I'm going to change this old saying, somewhat, as I don't want it to sound as harsh as it is orginally, "the road to chaos is paved with good intentions".
> >
> > This is my last word on this mess as I refuse to provide anything else for Bob's projects.
>
> fayeroe,
> You wrote,[...I've seen...first concern...mental health support site...left in the dark...you have..posters don't...word on this...]
> What you have posted points out that the administration wants to have the community to have an access to the administrator that governs his assistants. The TOS of Mr. Hsiung writes this in his statement that he wants to have feedback. Further, whatever is done here could be thought to be for the good of the group because the TOS here writes that he does what in his thinking will be good for the community as a whole and that what he does is with in some way {fair} and to {trust} him that what is done is to that concept.
> So I think that with that type of TOS here, members have rightfully thought that they have an expectation that the administration will deliver what they write as the {Terms Of Service} to the members. Since members are expressing in their posts their feelings as a result of the TOS in relation to them not receiving feedback from Mr. Hsiung yet, I think that members could feel that since they abide by the rules in the terms of service here for them, that Mr. Hsiung, that writes that he wants feedback, also abide by his terms of service to the members.
> In all respect to Dinah, let us reason that if Mr. Hsiung was to have posted in the innitiation of this, then would all of this have happened?
> Then there is IMO the concern that Mr. Hsiung's not posting concerniing this situation yet, when he was communicating with Dinah, could lead some others to have the potential to think things about as to why he has not posted here when he was communicating with Dinah. That could IMO have the potential to cause the emotional/ psychological feelings that members are posting about.
> I think that for the good of the community as a whole, we could focus on a remedy for those members here that are experiancing problematic psychological/emotional states as a result of this situation. One way suggested is to have discussion continually untill a remedy happens. I think that that is a good idea but in my experiance there is much more to that such as:
> A.IMO. a moderator that is impartial to the situation could be appointed untill Mr. Hsiung returns to the forum. Perhaps someone from the University of Chicago could be contacted to enter the forum as a member and moderate the discussion.
> B. another solution IMO could be to set up something like an instant messaging system for interested members to participate in off the forum's control.
> C. another solution IMO could be close the forum in its entirerty untill Mr. Hsiung returns to the forum.
> D. Another solution IMO would be to delete all the threads concerning this situation.
> E. Another solution IMO could be for Mr. Hsiung to provide a buddy of his to take his place
> F. Another solution IMO would be to change the TOS here and delete the part that feedback is wanted from the members.
> G. other good and just solutions.
> LouFRiends,
Here is a link to the TOS here where Mr. Hsiung writes that he wants to be open to feedback and about {trust} and {fair} and good for the community as a whole. It is about half way on the page and is in relation to being civil. These are the expectations that members IMO could understand to be part of the community standards.
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Posted by twinleaf on March 13, 2008, at 9:16:47
In reply to Re: I have to disagree... » twinleaf, posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2008, at 0:20:36
We clearly differ in how we are evaluating what has happened here.
I respect your views, although I hold differing ones. The only thing that is hard to take is that you have been disrespectful, argumentative, and provocative to both me and Adelaide Curtis in this one thread. Apparently, we are fit to be subjects of your hostility because we do not hold the same views that you do. You are a good example of what I am talking about when I say that there are now higher levels of distress on these boards. You have never posted in this manner before.
Posted by gardenergirl on March 13, 2008, at 11:42:38
In reply to Re: I have to disagree... » gardenergirl, posted by twinleaf on March 13, 2008, at 9:16:47
Thanks for thinking better of me than a review of the archives would indicate.
gg
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Administration | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.