![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 37 to 61 of 123. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 2:16:38
In reply to Re: Lou's response-, posted by antennastoheaven on June 30, 2013, at 1:01:34
Hi.
These are excellent points.
- Scott--------------------------------------
> Nicotine is an insecticide and a potentially useful stimulant with potential therapeutic use.
> How many drugs of any kind cure a chronic condition on their own? Is there a pharmaceutical cure for diabetes?
> Some mind-altering drugs appear to be useful at curing acute conditions. For example, I believe ibogaine is used to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms.
> Mind-altering drugs can be the catalyst to make other forms of therapy effective, thus playing a part in curing various mental health issues. Psychiatric drugs in general may be enough to stabilize a patient so that they are able to benefit from other forms of therapy that ultimately cure their condition. MDMA is useful when combined with psychotherapy in treating issues like PTSD.
> I've never met any medical professional who said psychotropic drugs cure anything.
> The underlying cause of depression may vary, but there is no procedure to effectively determine the cause. In my case, symptoms point to a dopaminergic cause - perhaps low dopamine receptor density. There are chemicals that can apparently increase dopamine receptor density but none that work as antidepressants. However, there are chemicals that increase the amount of dopamine available, thus creating an antidepressant effect.
> "dependent" is a much better word to use here than "addicted".> Depends on the drug. Not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms. I prefer drugs and dosing patterns that do not result in major acute withdrawal symptoms upon abrupt discontinuation, but if I do take one that does, I like to have a plan and adequate supply to gradually taper or some other way to combat withdrawal. And I personally avoid long-term or frequent use of any drug that is likely to result in post-acute withdrawal syndrome.
> Suicidal ideation due to a temporary unpleasant state is an unfortunate reaction, and the best way to avoid this is to prevent that temporary unpleasant state from occurring. In other words, don't abruptly discontinue any drugs with nasty withdrawal symptoms, and even better, avoid taking those drugs in the first place unless the benefits of the drug over other options outweigh the risk.
> Note that sometimes abrupt discontinuation of one drug could be safe when immediately switching to a sufficiently similar drug (such as switching from a SSRI to Prozac with its long half-life), or introducing another drug that will adequately resolve withdrawal symptoms (I have used tianeptine to go cold turkey on Zoloft with minimal discomfort, for example, and as I mentioned earlier ibogaine seems to end acute opioid withdrawal symptoms)
> "addict" is not the right word to use here.> If the doctor/psychiatrist instructs someone to abruptly discontinue a drug with major withdrawal symptoms, they were probably not competent enough to prescribe the drug in the first place. This probably happens fairly often, and that's why I try to extensively research every drug I am prescribed, especially reading a variety of anecdotal reports that may indicate issues not reported in the PI sheet or in any published articles.
> As I said before, this horror is entirely avoidable by education and finding an alternative to abrupt discontinuation.
> Once again, "addiction" is not the right word to use, and not every child (or adult) taking a psychiatric drug is dependent on that drug. Depression has many possible symptoms, none of which are universal among all depressed people, and many potential causes. To claim there is a single underlying cause completely contradicts all modern research into depression and mental health, and there is no universal treatment for depression or for safely discontinuing substances one may be dependent upon.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2013, at 7:58:39
In reply to Re: Lou's response-, posted by antennastoheaven on June 30, 2013, at 1:01:34
> > Let us reason together. Do chemicals that have been used in insecticides and in the commission of mass-murder have healing properties?
> Nicotine is an insecticide and a potentially useful stimulant with potential therapeutic use.
>
> > Has there ever been anyone cured by using mind-altering drugs?
> How many drugs of any kind cure a chronic condition on their own? Is there a pharmaceutical cure for diabetes?
>
> Some mind-altering drugs appear to be useful at curing acute conditions. For example, I believe ibogaine is used to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms.
>
> Mind-altering drugs can be the catalyst to make other forms of therapy effective, thus playing a part in curing various mental health issues. Psychiatric drugs in general may be enough to stabilize a patient so that they are able to benefit from other forms of therapy that ultimately cure their condition. MDMA is useful when combined with psychotherapy in treating issues like PTSD.
>
> > Do the psychiatrists/doctors now claim that psychotropic drugs cure anything or do they now take the position that they are using the drugs to treat symptoms?
> I've never met any medical professional who said psychotropic drugs cure anything.
>
> > Do chemicals address the underlying cause of depression?
> The underlying cause of depression may vary, but there is no procedure to effectively determine the cause. In my case, symptoms point to a dopaminergic cause - perhaps low dopamine receptor density. There are chemicals that can apparently increase dopamine receptor density but none that work as antidepressants. However, there are chemicals that increase the amount of dopamine available, thus creating an antidepressant effect.
>
> > And if one takes these drugs for just a few weeks, can they become addicted to the drug so that if they stop the drug they could go into a hellish withdrawal and kill themselves thinking that they could never live in that state and that they would be better off dead?
> "dependent" is a much better word to use here than "addicted".
> Depends on the drug. Not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms. I prefer drugs and dosing patterns that do not result in major acute withdrawal symptoms upon abrupt discontinuation, but if I do take one that does, I like to have a plan and adequate supply to gradually taper or some other way to combat withdrawal. And I personally avoid long-term or frequent use of any drug that is likely to result in post-acute withdrawal syndrome.
> Suicidal ideation due to a temporary unpleasant state is an unfortunate reaction, and the best way to avoid this is to prevent that temporary unpleasant state from occurring. In other words, don't abruptly discontinue any drugs with nasty withdrawal symptoms, and even better, avoid taking those drugs in the first place unless the benefits of the drug over other options outweigh the risk.
> Note that sometimes abrupt discontinuation of one drug could be safe when immediately switching to a sufficiently similar drug (such as switching from a SSRI to Prozac with its long half-life), or introducing another drug that will adequately resolve withdrawal symptoms (I have used tianeptine to go cold turkey on Zoloft with minimal discomfort, for example, and as I mentioned earlier ibogaine seems to end acute opioid withdrawal symptoms)
>
> > And when the doctor/psychiatrist gives the child the drug to take and tells the parent that the child has to take it for weeks before it "works", whatever that could mean, and then the psychiatrist says to he mom to stop the drug, does not the psychiatrist know that the child now could be an addict at age 14?
> "addict" is not the right word to use here.
> If the doctor/psychiatrist instructs someone to abruptly discontinue a drug with major withdrawal symptoms, they were probably not competent enough to prescribe the drug in the first place. This probably happens fairly often, and that's why I try to extensively research every drug I am prescribed, especially reading a variety of anecdotal reports that may indicate issues not reported in the PI sheet or in any published articles.
>
> > And if grown people can not get off these drugs and say that the withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal, how could a child deal with such horror and while mom is asleep, kill themselves?
> As I said before, this horror is entirely avoidable by education and finding an alternative to abrupt discontinuation.
>
> > I KNOW THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEPRESSION IN CHILDREN AND HOW TO FREE THE CHILD FROM ADDICTION AND DEPRESSION
> Once again, "addiction" is not the right word to use, and not every child (or adult) taking a psychiatric drug is dependent on that drug. Depression has many possible symptoms, none of which are universal among all depressed people, and many potential causes. To claim there is a single underlying cause completely contradicts all modern research into depression and mental health, and there is no universal treatment for depression or for safely discontinuing substances one may be dependent upon.antennastoheaven,
You wrote,[...not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms...]
If your claim here means that you know which drugs do, and which drugs do not have major withdrawal symptoms, then if you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What is a major withdrawal symptom?
B. What is not a major withdrawal symptom
C. Some drugs that have major withdrawal symptoms are:
D. Some drugs that do not have major withdrawal symptoms are:
E. Do you or do you not advise a mother to drug their child in collaboration with a psychiatrist with Zoloft and/or Seroquel combined or alone?
Lou
For interested readers, here is a video. To see this video:
A. Pull up Google
B Tpe in:
[youtube,GOgHIA0aMKE]
Dr. Gary Kohls
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2013, at 8:06:16
In reply to Lou's request-mehyjoar » antennastoheaven, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2013, at 7:58:39
> > > Let us reason together. Do chemicals that have been used in insecticides and in the commission of mass-murder have healing properties?
> > Nicotine is an insecticide and a potentially useful stimulant with potential therapeutic use.
> >
> > > Has there ever been anyone cured by using mind-altering drugs?
> > How many drugs of any kind cure a chronic condition on their own? Is there a pharmaceutical cure for diabetes?
> >
> > Some mind-altering drugs appear to be useful at curing acute conditions. For example, I believe ibogaine is used to treat opioid withdrawal symptoms.
> >
> > Mind-altering drugs can be the catalyst to make other forms of therapy effective, thus playing a part in curing various mental health issues. Psychiatric drugs in general may be enough to stabilize a patient so that they are able to benefit from other forms of therapy that ultimately cure their condition. MDMA is useful when combined with psychotherapy in treating issues like PTSD.
> >
> > > Do the psychiatrists/doctors now claim that psychotropic drugs cure anything or do they now take the position that they are using the drugs to treat symptoms?
> > I've never met any medical professional who said psychotropic drugs cure anything.
> >
> > > Do chemicals address the underlying cause of depression?
> > The underlying cause of depression may vary, but there is no procedure to effectively determine the cause. In my case, symptoms point to a dopaminergic cause - perhaps low dopamine receptor density. There are chemicals that can apparently increase dopamine receptor density but none that work as antidepressants. However, there are chemicals that increase the amount of dopamine available, thus creating an antidepressant effect.
> >
> > > And if one takes these drugs for just a few weeks, can they become addicted to the drug so that if they stop the drug they could go into a hellish withdrawal and kill themselves thinking that they could never live in that state and that they would be better off dead?
> > "dependent" is a much better word to use here than "addicted".
> > Depends on the drug. Not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms. I prefer drugs and dosing patterns that do not result in major acute withdrawal symptoms upon abrupt discontinuation, but if I do take one that does, I like to have a plan and adequate supply to gradually taper or some other way to combat withdrawal. And I personally avoid long-term or frequent use of any drug that is likely to result in post-acute withdrawal syndrome.
> > Suicidal ideation due to a temporary unpleasant state is an unfortunate reaction, and the best way to avoid this is to prevent that temporary unpleasant state from occurring. In other words, don't abruptly discontinue any drugs with nasty withdrawal symptoms, and even better, avoid taking those drugs in the first place unless the benefits of the drug over other options outweigh the risk.
> > Note that sometimes abrupt discontinuation of one drug could be safe when immediately switching to a sufficiently similar drug (such as switching from a SSRI to Prozac with its long half-life), or introducing another drug that will adequately resolve withdrawal symptoms (I have used tianeptine to go cold turkey on Zoloft with minimal discomfort, for example, and as I mentioned earlier ibogaine seems to end acute opioid withdrawal symptoms)
> >
> > > And when the doctor/psychiatrist gives the child the drug to take and tells the parent that the child has to take it for weeks before it "works", whatever that could mean, and then the psychiatrist says to he mom to stop the drug, does not the psychiatrist know that the child now could be an addict at age 14?
> > "addict" is not the right word to use here.
> > If the doctor/psychiatrist instructs someone to abruptly discontinue a drug with major withdrawal symptoms, they were probably not competent enough to prescribe the drug in the first place. This probably happens fairly often, and that's why I try to extensively research every drug I am prescribed, especially reading a variety of anecdotal reports that may indicate issues not reported in the PI sheet or in any published articles.
> >
> > > And if grown people can not get off these drugs and say that the withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal, how could a child deal with such horror and while mom is asleep, kill themselves?
> > As I said before, this horror is entirely avoidable by education and finding an alternative to abrupt discontinuation.
> >
> > > I KNOW THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEPRESSION IN CHILDREN AND HOW TO FREE THE CHILD FROM ADDICTION AND DEPRESSION
> > Once again, "addiction" is not the right word to use, and not every child (or adult) taking a psychiatric drug is dependent on that drug. Depression has many possible symptoms, none of which are universal among all depressed people, and many potential causes. To claim there is a single underlying cause completely contradicts all modern research into depression and mental health, and there is no universal treatment for depression or for safely discontinuing substances one may be dependent upon.
>
> antennastoheaven,
> You wrote,[...not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms...]
> If your claim here means that you know which drugs do, and which drugs do not have major withdrawal symptoms, then if you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. What is a major withdrawal symptom?
> B. What is not a major withdrawal symptom
> C. Some drugs that have major withdrawal symptoms are:
> D. Some drugs that do not have major withdrawal symptoms are:
> E. Do you or do you not advise a mother to drug their child in collaboration with a psychiatrist with Zoloft and/or Seroquel combined or alone?
> Lou
> For interested readers, here is a video. To see this video:
> A. Pull up Google
> B Tpe in:
> [youtube,GOgHIA0aMKE]
> Dr. Gary KohlsFriends,
To see the video, bring up Google and type in:
[psychotropic drugs, The Hidden Dangers, Dr Gary Kohls]
Posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2013, at 11:34:08
In reply to Lou's response- » laurah952, posted by Lou PIlder on June 29, 2013, at 23:03:52
Is this post part of your apology to laura, Lou?
If so, I find it sorely lacking. I find it.....well, the descriptors are things I cannot post here.
I don't know what to say any more.
Posted by herpills on June 30, 2013, at 12:23:28
In reply to 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on June 27, 2013, at 14:02:32
>
> My daughter still has her own appt. there, but not for a while. In the meantime, do you think the Zoloft is a bad idea? (I could up Seroquel a bit, and down the Zoloft to 50mg, for a start) The pdoc she was seeing, told me to "do whatever I wanted".
>
> Thanks in advance for any help/opinions,
> LauraI'm concerned about a doctor that gives a little too much choice for the patient. I think I read something in another post of yours a similar comment from your doctor. You really need someone to guide you in this situation. Coming here is certainly helpful, but we are not doctors. I'm sorry you are going through this and I will wish a good recovery for your daughter. herpills
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 12:24:51
In reply to Lou's response- » laurah952, posted by Lou PIlder on June 29, 2013, at 23:03:52
> Let us reason together.
Reasoning without accurate facts and sufficient understanding often yields disastrous results.
- Scott
Posted by Emme_V2 on June 30, 2013, at 12:26:49
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » SLS, posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 12:54:21
> > As I mentioned in a previous post, there is certainly some concern as to what effects antidepressants can have on a maturing brain. This remains largely unknown. If I had a child with bipolar disorder, I would opt to try psychotherapy first, followed by lithium and anticonvulsant mood stabilizers. I would then consider the need for neuroleptic antipsychotics and antidepressants. It often comes down to evaluating risk/cost versus benefit. Ideally, one would want to be treated by a pediatric psychiatrist.
>
> From what I've seen, Taylor's therapist uses a combined strategy of both psychotherapy and CBT. Taylor sees her once a week, and responds most positively. It's difficult to sit out, and not be privy to all that is said, but I know that in order for therapy to work for her, she needs to be able to open up completely. As you may know, I have a new adolescent psychiatrist for Taylor, but we must go through the intake process first. I thought a medical work-up was done while she was an inpatient in the adolescent psychiatric hospital. Since I have not gotten any results, I will ask what tests should be done, and go from there. I will also be asking about a bi-polar diagnosis, as opposed to the original MDD diagnosis. I have pages of notes on my observations of Taylor that I formed into letters addressing both her therapist, and her previous pdoc. I will bring them with me to her intake on Monday.
>
> I will research and take the lists of medications you have so graciously provided me to her new pdoc. Thank you for that!
>
> >
> > Personally, I would not deny a child an > > antidepressant or antipsychotic if it would keep them alive and thriving. Close monitoring during the first 4 - 6 weeks should effectively screen for a negative reaction to the drugs being trialed.
>
> Although I am questioning long term effects, I will not deny her medications that will keep her alive and well. I will be researching, and asking the pdoc about all possible negative side effects of any med she takes. I will also monitor closely her moods, especially her suicidal ideations and cutting.
>
>
> > If ADHD is present, perhaps using a mood stabilizer and stimulant would be considered.
>
> She may have ADD, but I haven't seen the hyperactivity index since she was much younger. (unless constant leg/knee shaking when sitting is a factor)
>
> Taylor has always been a sweet, caring, and loving child. She's never been in any trouble, and other parents always comment on what a polite girl she is. She's also very sensitive, and "stuffs" resentments/anger instead of letting them out. She has incredible low self esteem despite her beauty, loving demeanor, talents, and the hard work she employs in school. (final grade average for the year is an 89, despite all she's been through) She believes that she is a burden, and this scares me as her perception is way off.
>
> I'm sorry for the long post; I'm just going to continue to fight for her as diligently as I'm able...
>
> Thank you so much, Scott, and everyone who's helped by answering my questions and providing information and support.
>
> - Laura
>
>
Hi Laura,I've been following a few of the posts on this thread, and although I don't have any specific thoughts to offer med-wise, I do think your approach towards helping your daughter is really great. You're asking good questions, staying on top of the right information, taking an intelligent and pragmatic approach. You're doing an amazing job with a difficult illness.
I hope her new pdoc has some great ideas. I know for myself that a knowledgeable pdoc and appropriate meds have made all the difference in the world. It can take a lot of patience to find the right treatment, but it is so worth it to have relief from horrible symptoms.
Good luck to you and Taylor.
Emme
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 12:37:49
In reply to Re: Lou's response- » Lou PIlder, posted by 10derheart on June 30, 2013, at 11:34:08
> Is this post part of your apology to laura, Lou?
> I don't know what to say any more.I found what you said here to be very helpful. Sometimes, less is more.
:-)
I hope life is treating you well.
- Scott
Posted by antennastoheaven on June 30, 2013, at 15:25:39
In reply to Lou's request-mehyjoar » antennastoheaven, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2013, at 7:58:39
> You wrote,[...not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms...]
> If your claim here means that you know which drugs do, and which drugs do not have major withdrawal symptoms, then if you could post answers here to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
No, that is not what I mean. Please do not put words in my mouth.I know not every drug has major acute withdrawal symptoms because I have taken drugs and abruptly discontinued them before. Wellbutrin is generally easy to quit. I have very little knowledge of drugs I have not taken.
> A. What is a major withdrawal symptom?
Subjective.I would consider any symptom that causes major impairment in life function that isn't related to the desirable action of the drug no longer working. If you aren't sleeping very much anymore, or are too ill to go out of the house, that is major.
> B. What is not a major withdrawal symptom
Also subjective.I would not consider caffeine withdrawal headaches a major withdrawal symptom. If you have headaches that aren't severe, or feel a little tired and unmotivated but still capable of going out and doing things, that's not major.
> C. Some drugs that have major withdrawal symptoms are:
Most of them, for many people, when taken long enough, when discontinued abruptly.However withdrawal symptoms can generally be avoided or greatly reduced. Unfortunately many medical professionals are not knowledgeable in this regard.
> D. Some drugs that do not have major withdrawal symptoms are:
Wellbutrin, from my experience.> E. Do you or do you not advise a mother to drug their child in collaboration with a psychiatrist with Zoloft and/or Seroquel combined or alone?
How can anyone make that judgment based on a few words exchanged on the Internet? Such a decision should be made with full knowledge of the patient's symptoms, how these symptoms impair their ability to enjoy life, the expected effects of those drugs on the symptoms, the potential side effects of taking those drugs, expected period they'll be on those drugs, and the risk of having to discontinue those drugs.
For some, taking medications now (even if it means withdrawal later) may be worth it. I can say that Zoloft was so effective at killing crippling anxiety that the withdrawal was worth it (the mania side effect was not though).It seems many psychiatrists are too quick to write prescriptions to make a thorough decision, which is why it's great that there's resources like this site so individuals can learn more and ask for input from others. Unfortunately sometimes these sites have bad information.
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 15:28:47
In reply to correction: Lou's request-Dr. Gary Kohls, posted by Lou Pilder on June 30, 2013, at 8:06:16
I forgot to mention that I reset the subject line.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2013, at 18:28:52
In reply to 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 15:28:47
Despicable is all I can say to Lou. Seriously I feel you have hurt a very caring Mom and chased her away. Was this your purpose? Something I feel Is definitely wrong when one can post in this manner. Reminds me of a suicidal person posting such and when a time Dr Bob sent the authorities. Maybe same should be taken almost as threat and same actions taken. Who are you? Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on June 30, 2013, at 20:41:07
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 2:06:16
Scott, are you okay?
I've talked about my condition ever since I've been on this site. And I've told you what I've experienced many times, and yet you are acting like this is the first time I've brought it up. All I sound like is a broken record on this site and when talking to a psychiatrist. Because I repeat my experience over and over and each and every person says my condition is likely just a worsening of my normal depression and is unlikely if impossible to be related to medications.Went through 17 years of life being a normal functioning kid. Just normal growing up, experiencing puberty. Emotions becoming more complex as I grew. Became mildly depressed. Then took medicine for this. from this point on THE ONLY TIME MY MOOD CHANGED IN A DRASTIC WAY FOR THE WORSE WAS WHILE TAKING A PSYCHIATRIC MED. These changes in mood persist long, long, looking after stopping the Med.
The last one I took that had a brain disabling effect on me was Mirapex. Before taking it, I guess I was 75% my normal self. About 5 weeks after starting it I took my dose and a few hours later severe, disabling depression kicked in. I'm like this to this day.
I made the decision to start meds based on lies from the psychiatric community and have dealt with disastrous results ever since.
Based on the advice I get on this site as well as socialanxietysupport.com, I do not belong on these sites. I'm told I just need to be medicated to treat my progressing depression.
I know I don't belong in a psychiatrists office.
I don't belong in a psychiatric hospital.
I don't belong in the real world because I'm unable to reach anywhere close to thriving.So if the only advice out there to remedy my dire situation is the same BS that is spewed out by the majority of people on this site, then I conclude I belong in a grave.
I hate repeating myself over and over and over only to be told I'm just mistaken or delusional for 8 years now. I can't stand being alive.
Posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2013, at 20:49:37
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by poser938 on June 30, 2013, at 20:41:07
Poser I hear you. Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on June 30, 2013, at 20:51:07
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 2:06:16
And SLS, it has gotten old with you asking me every question in because you want to pretend you are oblivious to what I explained in the past. Why? My guess is to entertain the hopes of the new poster that getting involved in psychiatry is the answer.
I explain my condition and how it happened because I want the whole world to know every side of psychiatry.
And Lou belongs on this site just as much as anyone. Some want him silenced because he piles on the horrors of psychiatry. He wouldn't behave like he does if so many citizens weren't sheep for the psychiatric system.
Posted by poser938 on June 30, 2013, at 20:56:30
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » poser938, posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2013, at 20:49:37
> Poser I hear you. Phillipa
Thank you
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 22:23:05
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » poser938, posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2013, at 20:49:37
> Poser I hear you. Phillipa
Phillipa I hear you.
- Scott
Posted by laurah952 on June 30, 2013, at 22:33:43
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by Emme_V2 on June 30, 2013, at 12:26:49
Hi all,
I caught up with some reading here, and as there are so many posts I want to reply to, but have limited time right now, I will re-read and reply when I'm able.
I thank many of you for your support. Thanks, Emme - I really do hope Taylor's new pdoc takes the approach I'm looking for. She has her initial intake with a therapist tomorrow, where we will make the appointment with her new pdoc. I like that they gather information before she sees the pdoc - it just seems more thorough to me. (They are well aware that we are not changing therapists - so there's no agenda.)
In the meantime, Taylor remains in a much better state than before she started on medication. It's difficult to attribute that to anything else at this time. I am still going to tread very carefully, and educate myself. More importantly, I will be looking for the desired outcome for Taylor so she will want to stay alive, and how her pain is alleviated.
I know you are not doctors; I never thought otherwise. I came back because your experiences, knowledge, and support really do help. I can handle being likened to a child murderer, even though it's so unbelievably wrong for any person to do that to another, because that person and their ways mean nothing to me. I guess I'm stronger than I thought I was. Thank you to those who have supported me.
I do hope to offer my own experiences and support to help any of you where I'm able.
Laura
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 23:22:36
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by poser938 on June 30, 2013, at 20:41:07
> Scott, are you okay?
Okay enough, I suppose.
I also find it fatiguing to repeat myself at times. However, there are lots of people and lots of stories and lots of symptoms to keep track of.
> All I sound like is a broken record on this site and when talking to a psychiatrist.
Hmm.
Be that as it may, I will also offer the possibility that you have an underlying bipolar disorder, and that the drugs you have been given - antidepressants and dopamine agonists - uncovered it and made it worse.
> Went through 17 years of life being a normal functioning kid. Just normal growing up, experiencing puberty. Emotions becoming more complex as I grew. Became mildly depressed.
It happens.
> Then took medicine for this.
Which ones?
> The last one I took that had a brain disabling effect on me was Mirapex.
I simply asked you what this brain disabling effect was.
> Before taking it, I guess I was 75% my normal self. About 5 weeks after starting it I took my dose and a few hours later severe, disabling depression kicked in. I'm like this to this day.
Perhaps you can describe in more detail the symptoms or features of this depression. Was this a worsening of the original symptoms or something different?
> I made the decision to start meds based on lies from the psychiatric community
What lies?
Is being wrong a lie?
> Based on the advice I get on this site as well as socialanxietysupport.com, I do not belong on these sites.Is this your own conclusion, or have you actually been told that you don't belong on Psycho-Babble?
> I'm told I just need to be medicated to treat my progressing depression.
What would you like to do about it, now that it exists?
> I know I don't belong in a psychiatrists office.
There is always Catch 22.
> I don't belong in a psychiatric hospital.
Ditto.
> I don't belong in the real world because I'm unable to reach anywhere close to thriving.
Well, unfortunately, you are among others in that same predicament.
> So if the only advice out there to remedy my dire situation is the same BS that is spewed out by the majority of people on this site, then I conclude I belong in a grave.
I don't know where you belong.
If you do belong in a grave, I doubt that you are due to be buried any time soon.
> I hate repeating myself over and over and over only to be told I'm just mistaken or delusional for 8 years now. I can't stand being alive.
1. I do not think that you are delusional.
2. I do not know whether or not you are mistaken.
3. The BS spewed out here is quite variable.
Hopefully, someone here will spew out some BS that you find helpful.
As I detailed in my previous post, I have no doubt that drugs can produce adverse and persistent effects.
I do not know what is wrong with you. I am sorry that you should find yourself in such a frustrating and painful condition.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 23:43:19
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by poser938 on June 30, 2013, at 20:51:07
> And Lou belongs on this site just as much as anyone.
Lou Pilder has been granted by the administration of Psycho-Babble an equal opportunity to submit the keystrokes he enters into his computer. You have been granted by the government an equal opportunity to own a knife.
- Scott
Posted by laurah952 on July 1, 2013, at 13:57:39
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by Emme_V2 on June 30, 2013, at 12:26:49
> > If I had a child with bipolar disorder, I would opt to try psychotherapy first, followed by lithium and anticonvulsant mood stabilizers. I would then consider the need for neuroleptic antipsychotics and antidepressants. It often comes down to evaluating risk/cost versus benefit. Ideally, one would want to be treated by a pediatric psychiatrist.
>Hi - We've gone the psychotherapy route, and by itself it wasn't enough. What are the anticonvulsant mood stabilizers? Could you list a few you believe might be good ones? Also, what are neuroleptic antipsychotics? Is Seroquel in that category? I absolutely believe that I need to assess the risk versus the benefit.
I don't believe I've mentioned this before, but it may be helpful for some to know. When I first discovered Taylor's cutting, and got her into therapy, (This February) she told us that she had been depressed for 2 years. She hid it well, and it was mild enough that it went unnoticed by our family. Here we are 2 years later, and her untreated depression worsened to the point of where she had to be hospitalized. Even the therapy was not enough. She became so completely obsessed with suicide that she barely had time for anything else. She wrote pages and pages and pages about how she was going to kill herself in a completely fail safe way. She set a date for this as well.
I believe 100% that the medication (seroquel and Zoloft) along with therapy drastically reduced the suicidal ideation, and gave her what she needed to start going out with friends again, and finding joy in her life. She's not "out of the woods" but has made remarkable improvement.
Thanks,
Laura
Posted by laurah952 on July 1, 2013, at 14:21:15
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on July 1, 2013, at 13:57:39
Hi all,
I posted here last night from an iPad, and I can't find it. I guess the transmission didn't complete.
I addressed all the issues being talked about here, and thanked those who stood up to Lou for "likening me" to a child murderer, when he changed my thread's header, using the word infanticide. A line was crossed there, causing me much pain.
I didn't think I was strong enough to be here with that happening, but I am. I have to be for my daughter's sake. Many of you have been very supportive and I need that, so I thank you once again.
I also hope to share my experiences and support where I'm able, and become a helpful and active participant here.
- Laura
Posted by SLS on July 1, 2013, at 15:16:23
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on July 1, 2013, at 14:21:15
> I didn't think I was strong enough to be here with that happening, but I am.
I had no doubts.
> I also hope to share my experiences and support where I'm able, and become a helpful and active participant here.<big smile>
- Scott
Posted by laurah952 on July 1, 2013, at 16:46:16
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by SLS on July 1, 2013, at 15:16:23
> > I didn't think I was strong enough to be here with that happening, but I am.
>
> I had no doubts.
>
> > I also hope to share my experiences and support where I'm able, and become a helpful and active participant here.
>
> <big smile>
>
>
> - ScottThank you, Scott- your support is continually giving me inspiration to "fight the good fight"!
- Laura
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 1, 2013, at 18:08:36
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on July 1, 2013, at 14:21:15
> Hi all,
>
> I posted here last night from an iPad, and I can't find it. I guess the transmission didn't complete.
>
> I addressed all the issues being talked about here, and thanked those who stood up to Lou for "likening me" to a child murderer, when he changed my thread's header, using the word infanticide. A line was crossed there, causing me much pain.
>
> I didn't think I was strong enough to be here with that happening, but I am. I have to be for my daughter's sake. Many of you have been very supportive and I need that, so I thank you once again.
>
> I also hope to share my experiences and support where I'm able, and become a helpful and active participant here.
>
> - Laural,
You wrote,[...Lou causing me...].
Please do not post what could constitute using me as a {scapegoat}. The words in my subject line have nothing to do with you as I have posted here. The words with scrambled letters and such are code words for my own purposes and not directed to you.
I am concerned with he dynamics of attributing blame to me here, even though Mr Hsiung is allowing it toward me here even though his rules state that members here would be protected from scapegoating and such, and I took him at his word. You see, scapegoating is a hostile social-psychological discrediting routine by which people move blame to someone. This has been revealed to me as a part of what I am trying to do here to stop hatred toward others being allowed by Mr Hsiung and his past deputies and deputy now, because it has been revealed to me that as long as hate is allowed to be posted here, then depression and addiction and death can abound.
You see, I know what causes children to be depressed and want to kill themselves. And you may know by now that I am prohibited to post here what could bring your child
Posted by poser938 on July 1, 2013, at 20:08:07
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » poser938, posted by SLS on June 30, 2013, at 23:22:36
> Be that as it may, I will also offer the possibility that you have an underlying bipolar disorder, and that the drugs you have been given - antidepressants and dopamine agonists - uncovered it and made it worse.
> I started out with mild to moderate depression with adjustment disorder. Now I have sever depression, agorophobia, body dysmorphic disorder,, anhedonia, absence of affect and some very light tar dive dyskinesia.>
> Which ones?
> Cymbalta, Geodon, Adder all, Aricept, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Effexor, Cyproheptadine, Ritalin, Mirapex, Tianeptine, low dose Amisulpride, Risperdal, Seroquel, Saphris, Latuda, Flumazenil (yes my pdoc prescribed this) Prozac, Deplin, Remeron, Lamictal, Celexa and I've done rTMS.> > The last one I took that had a brain disabling effect on me was Mirapex.
>
> I simply asked you what this brain disabling effect was.
> the severe mood problem i listed above is what Mirapex and a few other meds have caused for me. Mainly Mirapex and Effexor.> Perhaps you can describe in more detail the symptoms or features of this depression. Was this a worsening of the original symptoms or something diffent.
> the person I am now with this depression in no way resembles how I was the day before my first appointment with a psychiatrist.
> What lies?
>
> Is being wrong a lie?
> please don't tell me you believe many truths have been hidden by the psychiatric community? Do you honestly believe drug companies as well as many psychiatrists were in the dark about increased suicidal tendencies, or new suicidal thoughts until around 2004? Please don't tell me the psychiatric community is in the dark about tar dive dyskinesia. Or Dopamine Agonist Withdrawal Syndrome. The science points to it so well.They fight it many times in court. For years. The drug companies know the ins and outs of their drugs as well or better than anyone. They knew all about the increased suicidal and homicidal tendencies even before Prozac was released in 1987. And much of the public plays dumb for the drug companies. Im not sure what the main public view on the rumors of increased suicidal thoughts caused by these meds was in 1993, but I'm thinking its the same view it has on Tardive Dysphoria today. With most calling it unbelievable. And discrediting those who say they suffer from it. I'm sure this hurts at least as much as someone being accused of infanticide.
> Is this your own conclusion, or have you actually been told that you don't belong on Psycho-Babble?
> my own conclusion.>
> What would you like to do about it, now that it exists?
> Deep Brain Stimulation. If that doesn't help, I wonder if they would do physician assisted suicide for me.
> > I know I don't belong in a psychiatrists office.
>
> There is always Catch 22.
>
> > I don't belong in a psychiatric hospital.
>
> Ditto.
>
> > I don't belong in the real world because I'm unable to reach anywhere close to thriving.
>
> Well, unfortunately, you are among others in that same predicament.
>
> > So if the only advice out there to remedy my dire situation is the same BS that is spewed out by the majority of people on this site, then I conclude I belong in a grave.
>
> I don't know where you belong.
>
> If you do belong in a grave, I doubt that you are due to be buried any time soon.
>
> > I hate repeating myself over and over and over only to be told I'm just mistaken or delusional for 8 years now. I can't stand being alive.
>
> 1. I do not think that you are delusional.
>
> 2. I do not know whether or not you are mistaken.
>
> 3. The BS spewed out here is quite variable.
>
> its all "you should try this pill"
Basically a more in depth and a bit more personalized version of WebMD.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.