![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 35 to 59 of 76. Go back in thread:
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:37:13
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » former poster, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 9:53:27
When you were on Nardil, what was your diet like?
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:42:15
In reply to Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on July 24, 2010, at 13:01:13
> I'm concerned about the weight gain. I look HORRIBLE. If ANYONE knows how to lose the weight while on 75 mg of Nardil and (10mg? of Ambien/4 mg Klonpin night
Yeah, the insomnia sucked huh, i would only get 4 hrs of sleep and wake up. then have to take another ambien for second period of sleep. which wasnt good because it left me droggy the next day.
Posted by pedr on August 11, 2010, at 14:43:03
In reply to Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on July 24, 2010, at 13:01:13
Hi Enigma,
sorry you're feeling so horrible. My Dx is not dissimilar. I have atypical "treatment resistant" depression and OCD. On top of that I have chronic IBS-C which leaves me in varying degrees of pain and discomfort every day. I also have tried the standard groups of meds and cannot tolerate many (e.g. a tiny Paxil dose gave me daytime nightmares, like being in a Tim Burton film). I'm on 90mg Nardil and it has helped more than anything I've tried by miles. Still I go through periods of depression which typically last 5-6 days. I don't know why. I just sit tight and wait for them to pass.I was 150 lb when my IBS-C was bad (you become afraid of all food and so you stop eating it) but my "normal" weight has always been ~ 170lb. Now I am 200lb. Like you, nothing I seem to do touches it - exercise, diet and so on. I also look and feel pregnant with that weird big belly but lean limbs look. Makes my SA really difficult on the subway, I'm convinced that people are staring at me.
Here's your list of SE's (I get or have had all of them and more) with any advice I have:
Nardil causes
- fatigue,
--- have you considered adding Provigil? Some people report excellent results. Didn't do squat for me.
- insomnia (need 2-3 meds to sleep at night),
--- apparently melatonin can be taken with Nardil. The bottle says not, as do some websites. But my shrink thinks it's OK, and lots of people have tried it. Perhaps give it a go.
- constant overheating/sweating/uncontrollable body temp (too high/can't cool down - drinking coffee makes me sweat!), unbearable in humidity (I could ALWAYS tolerate it before Nardil),
- now crying spells (new, never had them until 1 year ago or 6 months ago - some severe crying spells - suicidal - uncontrollable crying - loud, severe. (not a side effect, I think it's pooping out. Nardil never caused this before - been on nardil for 2-3 years) - 75 mg.
--- have you considered 90mg or higher? or augmentation with Provigil?
- Max dose causes (blood pressure problems, dizzy spells when bending over, raising head back up, fairly bad. Hyptotension? I forget the term.
--- I used to get this but it has passed. Not sure why yours is persisting. Try 2 things: 1/ drink loads of water. This increases blood pressure. 2/ increase your salt intake (as long as your doc approves). This also increases blood pressure. I was able to play soccer as long as I did these steps beforehand.
- Anorgasmia
- Inability to regulate body temperature/overheating
- Severe fatigue
- Unable to lose weight, weight gain from eating little to no calories - very low carb diet
>> If anyone knows of anything that will help, please toss on your comments. Just looking in the mirror after a shower causes depression. Now I wear a beach/surfer shirt to hide my body at the pool/beach. :(Looking in the mirror can't cause depression directly. I know that you probably know that but it's true. It sounds as though body image is incredibly (excessively?) important to you. Don't get me wrong, I don't like looking pregnant either (and it's cost me a fortune in clothing) and I get anxious&down about it often, but since there's f-all you can do about it, the only thing left to do is change your attitude towards your body image. Accept that this is the way it's going to be whilst on Nardil. If you can make peace with the weight gain, the less it will get you down and the better you will feel.
Apologies if that came across as preachy-sounding, it wasn't intended to be, it's just my suggestion.
Pete
Posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 16:51:02
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:37:13
> When you were on Nardil, what was your diet like?
I tried everything from atkins, to just atkins snacks (like 500 calories a day), to everything under the sun. 4-5 small meals a day, etc, etc, and so on.
(incoming rant)
Still on Nardil. Jerkoff new p-doc doctor STILL hasn't called me back yet. I've been waiting 3 weeks for him to get back from vacation. Before vacation, I left messages and they never called back. I have to switch to Selegeline. It's the only drug I KNOW will work, for a while anyway.
I might go to the hospital tonight, for my gut and 1 week+ long all day headache - (5 weeks now, it's be been messed up, gastro docs are stumped, but they won't even do a blood test or check my gut with whatever test I had when I was like 10), I guess the same test exists..
Plus, I'm suicidal as ever. 99% convinced I'll never find even a semi-attractive girl to love me (and I'm a muscular "7", minus the nardil gut). All dating sites were either scams, liars, elitists (people who want only 9's and 10's ONLY or CEO's, rocks stars, movies starts, that sort of thing - f-ing women.), and selfish women with massive egos that the though of dating a 7 "offended" them somehow, and pure, pure, pure rejection. What a horrible experience.
If I had the money, I'd move to Europe in a second, and actually meet women, maybe fall in love and be happy. Too bad I have young children. I can't fly back and forth every month, not on disability and I can't take them with me.
Been in bed most days until I just can't sleep anymore. Been taking too much Klonopin.. calms me down a little. Max dose. I already need something stronger (like 2 years ago). Couldn't sleep for the past two nights, even with 3 sleep meds in me.
I hate life so bad, I can't put it in words. If it wouldn't hurt my kids (could care less about my wife - we're separated and not in love), and she won't even "fight" to help me get better. Example, I'll ask her to call a doctor for me, and she'll just accept whatever they tell her and hangup. Instead, what I would do is say "Are you insane? She's suffering terribly, she can't wait a month!!!! Can't you squeeze her in or suggest anything else - what about a cancellation list - SHE NEEDS a new med ASAP?". Last p-doc denied my med change to Selegeline, since he's not familiar with it.
WTF, ever hear of the internet, or a BOOK? As an SE, we had to learn new tech every 6 months or we'd lose our jobs. Doctors? Hell now. They can just sit back and say stupid things like "I'm not familiar with that drug" - EVEN THOUGH I still have the bottle, and told him I've already been on it!!!!I think Nardil is causing the headaches.. unless it's rage and anger which always did the same. In a semi-hypo manic episode now (extremely rare these days), and I can't sleep at night, and I can't cry, and I WANT to cry.
Wife - is afraid of even the smallest amount of conflict, so she's 0 help to me and my illness, plus, we were never in love, so there's no affection there either.
Every 5 minutes not I think of taking my knife to my jugular. That would be very quick and not too painful. I don't care anymore. I'm sick of all the people who abandoned me. Sick of have 0 friends, sick of getting rejected 500 times on every single dating site. I hate women now, the attractive ones, cause they are impossible to date, as they always want MUCH MORE than their own equivalent in a man. That's been MY experience, so it's not generalization. Sick of side-effects, sick of being in misery and begging people to be my friend or go out some night with me and ALWAYS getting an excuse. Sick of fighting bipolar disorder for 16 years, and severe, suicidal depression for 10 years. No more fight left in me. Just anger and rage. 1/2 asses doctors who barely lifted a finger to help me, even though I was suffering terribly, and blah blah blah. No support. Even the support group I went to didn't help me, nor to therapists. It was like talking to a wall. I can do that at home.
Trying to get into a couple dbs studies, but it depends how bad I get. I could gut myself tonight, and I'm not going back to the prison/er, I mean hospital. I get worse there, not better.
I never used to believe in fate, until I faced so much pain over years and years and years and never a light, never an angel, never someone to save me. They never came along. My deck was stacked at birth, so I believe, and my storm clouds follow me around everywhere I go. It's been like that since I was a child. I have only few good memories and this curse that makes me remember every negative event in my life like it happened 5 mins ago. I'll never understand that. I just plum "forgot" about the good memories. There HAD to be some?
rant over. This could be a suicide note.. I couldn't tell ya either way.
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2010, at 20:03:52
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 16:51:02
Enigma I do hear your pain but to committ suicide is not the answer. Don't know what is but it's there maybe the dbs? Phillipa
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 21:18:38
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by Enigma on August 11, 2010, at 16:51:02
I think this might just cheer you up Engima.
Posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 21:46:05
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:37:13
I had a ravenous appetite while on Nardil. I would eat anything in sight until I was stuffed. Worse yet, I would eat junk food: Doughnuts, chocolate and lots of coffee. Almost one pot a day with cream and sugar.
Posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 22:32:53
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 21:46:05
Same here. I'm going to try Nardil once more because it helped alot with SP but now on a low calorie diet + excerise and see how much I put on. I wonder if I would of done this in the first place how much weight I would of gained.
Posted by GreenP on August 11, 2010, at 23:58:44
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by emmanuel98 on July 27, 2010, at 19:24:36
I took Nardil for 6 months. I'm curious, has it eradicated you depression completely? If it hasn't, you may want to switch to an SSRI. While I was on Nardil I gained 35 pounds. I've been off of it for a month now and have only lost 8 of those pounds. For some reason the weight gain caused by Nardil is extremely hard to get rid of. Also for me, my memory went to sh*t, and my grades suffered for it. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, is this worth it? I know how hard it is to let go when people say that Nardil is a miracle cure, but listen to yourself and your own body. It's unhealthy to gain all that weight and cellulite (I have heard) is due to toxins being stored in the fat tissue. I started getting cellulite when I started taking the drug Seroquil, so I understand your frustration. Keep trying, keep posting, and good luck to you!
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:12:37
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by angels78 on August 11, 2010, at 11:42:15
> > I'm concerned about the weight gain. I look HORRIBLE. If ANYONE knows how to lose the weight while on 75 mg of Nardil and (10mg? of Ambien/4 mg Klonpin night
>
> Yeah, the insomnia sucked huh, i would only get 4 hrs of sleep and wake up. then have to take another ambien for second period of sleep. which wasnt good because it left me droggy the next day.My insomnia was so bad, I literally tossed and turned for 8 hours or so, before getting meds (and now my meds aren't working so great as I'm getting up more at night again). So I'd sleep for 5-10 mins, wake up, take 20 mins to get back to sleep for another 5-10 mins, etc. I know because I looked at the clock each time.
Then for a while I was kicking, punching, and jumping out of sleep. Like I had a terrible nightmare but didn't. I don't really get nightmares because death, violence, etc have no scare effect on me. I only get disturbing dreams, like I'm BACK IN COLLEGE!.. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!! So I fling myself from bed, breathing heavy... that god.. it was just a dream..
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:29:29
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by pedr on August 11, 2010, at 14:43:03
> Hi Enigma,
> sorry you're feeling so horrible. My Dx is not dissimilar. I have atypical "treatment resistant" depression and OCD. On top of that I have chronic IBS-C which leaves me in varying degrees of pain and discomfort every day. I also have tried the standard groups of meds and cannot tolerate many (e.g. a tiny Paxil dose gave me daytime nightmares, like being in a Tim Burton film). I'm on 90mg Nardil and it has helped more than anything I've tried by miles. Still I go through periods of depression which typically last 5-6 days. I don't know why. I just sit tight and wait for them to pass.I'm kinda the same. I have good days and bad days, probably because I'm technically bipolar and have always been a rapid cycler, so 2-3 days I might be "ok" but lately, that's been bad too, then 2-4 days of being bedridden where I have no interest in getting out of bed, or doing literally anything.
The lack of a lover in my life had added so much extra environmental depression to my chemical depression, so I cry a lot now.
> I was 150 lb when my IBS-C was bad (you become afraid of all food and so you stop eating it) but my "normal" weight has always been ~ 170lb. Now I am 200lb. Like you, nothing I seem to do touches it - exercise, diet and so on. I also look and feel pregnant with that weird big belly but lean limbs look. Makes my SA really difficult on the subway, I'm convinced that people are staring at me.
I hear you. Sometimes all I can feel or see is my gut, I hate it. My daughters friends have called me pregnant. Yeah, that helps.
> Here's your list of SE's (I get or have had all of them and more) with any advice I have:
> Nardil causes
> - fatigue,
> --- have you considered adding Provigil? Some people report excellent results. Didn't do squat for me.Didn't to anything for me either. It also caused some odd side-effect I can't remember. But didn't make me more alert or give me ANY energy at all.
> - insomnia (need 2-3 meds to sleep at night),
> --- apparently melatonin can be taken with Nardil. The bottle says not, as do some websites. But my shrink thinks it's OK, and lots of people have tried it. Perhaps give it a go.Tried it, and it gives me, hmm, hard to explain. I forget if that's the one that gave me disturbing dreams, which I would always wake from, or the punching and kicking myself out of sleep, or both. Never touch the stuff anymore.
> - constant overheating/sweating/uncontrollable body temp (too high/can't cool down - drinking coffee makes me sweat!), unbearable in humidity (I could ALWAYS tolerate it before Nardil),
Still killing me.
> - now crying spells (new, never had them until 1 year ago or 6 months ago - some severe crying spells - suicidal - uncontrollable crying - loud, severe. (not a side effect, I think it's pooping out. Nardil never caused this before - been on nardil for 2-3 years) - 75 mg.
> --- have you considered 90mg or higher? or augmentation with Provigil?
> - Max dose causes (blood pressure problems, dizzy spells when bending over, raising head back up, fairly bad. Hyptotension? I forget the term.I already answered your question right there. I was at 90, if I bent over to pick something up, or got out of bed, I would get the worst dizzy spells. Painful in the eyes and head too. Had to hold onto to wall for it to pass.
> --- I used to get this but it has passed. Not sure why yours is persisting. Try 2 things: 1/ drink loads of water. This increases blood pressure. 2/ increase your salt intake (as long as your doc approves). This also increases blood pressure. I was able to play soccer as long as I did these steps beforehand.
Been drinking a ton of water later, because I had a 5 week stomach bug and became severely dehydrated.
> - Anorgasmia
> - Inability to regulate body temperature/overheating
> - Severe fatigue
> - Unable to lose weight, weight gain from eating little to no calories - very low carb diet
>
>
> >> If anyone knows of anything that will help, please toss on your comments. Just looking in the mirror after a shower causes depression. Now I wear a beach/surfer shirt to hide my body at the pool/beach. :(
>
> Looking in the mirror can't cause depression directly. I know that you probably know that but it's true. It sounds as though body image is incredibly (excessively?) important to you. Don't get me wrong, I don't like looking pregnant either (and it's cost me a fortune in clothing) and I get anxious&down about it often, but since there's f-all you can do about it, the only thing left to do is change your attitude towards your body image. Accept that this is the way it's going to be whilst on Nardil. If you can make peace with the weight gain, the less it will get you down and the better you will feel.Well, I've been thin and muscular all my life. This gut and not being able to get rid of it causes me a great deal of distress and depression. I'm trying to meet a women (couldn't be going worse), and I believe my gut is always getting in the way (not literally). I had a six pack for so many years I lost count. Actually, I still have one, you can barely see it now though due to the fat covering it. My self-image has always been important to me. It will be for a good many years longer. I was so upset today (crying about my lost soul-mate), that I wanted to take a knife to the arteries in my neck. Just like that. Dead.
>
> Apologies if that came across as preachy-sounding, it wasn't intended to be, it's just my suggestion.
> Pete
>Not a problem. I wish I could at least watch movies again. I have a million on a hard drive, but I just can't get up the energy to watch them. I like to sleep and dream about better things. My depression doesn't affect my dreams at all. It's like I'm normal again when I'm dreaming. It's my only escape. I sleep so lightly that I usually remember my dreams, and sometimes I can partially control what happens in them. Sad that dreams are better than my real life. REALLY SAD.
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:34:19
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help » Enigma, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2010, at 20:03:52
> Enigma I do hear your pain but to committ suicide is not the answer. Don't know what is but it's there maybe the dbs? Phillipa
The dbs is going to be a battle.
They have 3 rounds of requirements you have to pass just to get it (for this one particular trial). I'm afraid of brain damage and being a veggie.. but I just I could combat that one with a living will right?And it's a 5 year long trial. I have to move to Atlanta alone for a month, with no one to support me or friend or family to talk to, and answer question-ares or attend interviews for the next 5 years. IF I ever get accepted.
And what if it doesn't work or makes me WORSE. I need a mobster that owns me a favor. So, if things go awry, he can sniper me in the head from the top of some building and "save my life".
Posted by Enigma on August 14, 2010, at 14:36:45
In reply to Re: Nardil is killing me - must find alternative! Help, posted by former poster on August 11, 2010, at 21:46:05
> I had a ravenous appetite while on Nardil. I would eat anything in sight until I was stuffed. Worse yet, I would eat junk food: Doughnuts, chocolate and lots of coffee. Almost one pot a day with cream and sugar.
I was exactly like that or Seroquel, Fanapt (forget the spelling) and one other drug. I craved carbs ans surgar and could NOT resist them.
The Fanapt killed me. 15 pounds in a week, and still on me 1.5 years later.
I dropped all the weight (which was much more, like 30 pounds, and 25 pounds). But, I don't think I was on nardil them. That's the key.
Posted by jackford on August 16, 2010, at 21:40:40
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by donald Klein on August 10, 2010, at 19:26:04
Not to mention that getting to see - or even talk with - the people on this list is often next to impossible. I'm in the Boston area and tried my best with Mass General (which has a number of very well-regarded (famous, actually), but got absolutely nowhere. Stonewalled by administrative staff.
> > http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.psychiatrists.html
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > Just a note about the list of 'best psychiatrists" posted here: the ones listed in my area run the worst mental hospital in my city. It's well-regarded and well-known for its research, but the patient care is very poor. That can be verified by the view of just about any experienced psychiatrist, social worker, therapist, family practitioner, or mental patient in my city. It's well know for being the 'worst'.
> >
> > Just a word of caution to anyone looking at that list - best does not necessarily = best in practice.
>
> It is very difficult to evaluate just how good any doctor is at a distance. Obviously such lists provide only moderate guidance and reasoned skepticism is always advisable.
> Just as the professional's difficult job is to objectively evaluate and monitor treatment , the patient has the same task. Both are not easy.
>
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 17, 2010, at 15:47:39
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list » donald Klein, posted by jackford on August 16, 2010, at 21:40:40
> getting to see - or even talk with - the people on this list is often next to impossible.
It might not be here... :-)
Bob
Posted by Enigma on August 18, 2010, at 9:35:42
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by Dr. Bob on August 17, 2010, at 15:47:39
> > getting to see - or even talk with - the people on this list is often next to impossible.
>
> It might not be here... :-)
>
> BobDr. Bob, I don't get it. :(
I know a few of the names on that list already, e.g. Maurizio Fava was recommended to me years ago. Most of the docs listed in Boston, are like it says above, it's pretty much impossible to see them.
Dr. Fava is the Dept. Chair and Mass General and barely sees patients anyone. The others list a Mass General are NOT accepting new patients anymore either.
I called a doctor in Andover yesterday as this would make a great commute. I'm down to using my Droid cell-phone to do a look of the term psychiatrist and going from there.Monday, I was told I might be seen Friday, then I called Tuesday (because they said they were going to call me but didn't, then told me, sorry, all our docs are full and don't take medicare. They charge $250 for the first visit, and $90 for the med visits, but I honestly don't think with all their doctors (some place in Nashua) they have even one expert with treatment resistant depression.
I feel terrible today, as usual. Been waking up at 2:00 am every night for the past few nights. Yep, almost exactly at 2. Not sure why. My stomach hurt so bad I could do "anything". I took my stomach acid pain med (and took 2 more ambien, doubling the daily dose, I think, but it was the only way to get back to sleep.
Now, my headache is coming back on. I wonder if these headaches are stress or caffeine related. I've had caffeine withdrawal headaches before, but never their fierce or for this long of a period.
I don't think I've had a day where I was completely healthy and in a good mood as long as I can remember. Knowing you can escape is torture for me. I just want to give up this 16-17 year battle I've slowly been losing. If I die, I have no life insurance (if I'm lucky enough to die that way), and if I commit suicide, my kids will get over it eventually but will still destroy them for a long period of time, they could have problems with school, because depressed too, copy-cat me, etc, I'll put my family in financial ruin, they have to sell the house, move into a dump, and be on welfare.
Great choices. Either I suffer every day of my so-called life with no friends, no lover, no sex, no happiness, sleep 1/2 of each week, think of suicide every day, not able to work and make money - kissed my career away 8-10 years ago, and suffer, suffer, suffer and suffer, or kill myself and destroy my family.
Being depressed has already destroyed my family.Back to bed I guess since my headache is twice as bad as it was when I started writing this.
When am I going to look up other doctors.. my wife isn't doing it. When am I going to fill out the paperwork for the DBS study, my wife won't do it.I'm hopeless and alone. Great "life".
Posted by creepy on August 19, 2010, at 11:35:26
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by Enigma on August 18, 2010, at 9:35:42
Ive been seeing various people in the boston area for the last 15 years. It seems to me that the best approach is to either put in a lot of effort (sometimes needed) to get a consult with docs that specialize in treating your specific condition OR to keep changing docs until you get one who has a treatment plan that works.
I got a PTSD diagnosis from my last doc, and although shes been a total letdown in many other ways that dx has put me on a much more beneficial path.
Dont be afraid to ask for referrals! I got a referral to an EMDR practitioner and from there a referral to a psychopharm doc. These people often attend conferences and training and network with each other.
Posted by Enigma on August 22, 2010, at 11:12:09
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list, posted by creepy on August 19, 2010, at 11:35:26
I called the same guy in Andover, MA twice and he sounded older than the sun.
Once he blew me off after I left a message and once I caught him.
It seemed like that was his home phone number and I was bothering him.
Then after I explained a bit about myself he said, well "not everyone can be helped" which was really discouraging, and made me want to cut myself open right then and there because it really seemed like I fit into that category.
Then he said to call some other phone number for pricing information (his secretary). He does not take medicare. The pricing information number didn't call me back.Then I got a call back from a place that already told me they didn't take medicare either, then they called again days later and told me to call them back. ??
I found a guy, at a primary care facility no less, and he actually prescribed me a one time, 30 day supply of Selegeline. He seemed to really care about not wanting me to die. First doc that really seemed to care that I've seen in a while, so I made him my PCP.
I've been off Nardil now for 3 days (or is it 4), and all I feel is stomach pain from another illness - some acid/ulcer thing where I couldn't tolerate the meds but I'm on them again because the pain never goes away - it's 24/7. I've been having about 3 brutal headaches that don't respond to OTC meds much at all, and those have been around as long as the stomach problems have. Never had any "acid" problems in my stomach in my life, but my by gastro PHD doc is still 2 weeks away. I was seeing the PA before, and I think she is WRONG.
The only new symptom that I've had is this odd light-headed feeling that that seems to stick around most of the day. Started as soon as I quit Nardil. I was thinking it was some withdrawal effect. I *still* have to get another pdoc, even though I KNOW no one where I live is qualified to treat TRD.
But, at least I can get an appointment and maybe more meds if they know what to give me (which I doubt, tried pretty much everything).I'm still crying a lot in response to these stories/fantasies I make up when I talk to myself in bed. Both started two months ago (the crying and talking to myself). I'm afraid I'm losing my mind. I'm afraid to go out in public for fear my mind will wander to a sad subject and I'll start crying in public (which has happened, but I was able to make it to my car).
I have the potential to cry over almost anything even remotely sad - even, like I said, pure fiction that I make up. I don't know why I started talking to myself, but I make up these stories that are somewhat based on reality and I put a new ending on them over and over again - passes the time I guess. Almost always, real people are the main characters.
I wish I could just start writing again, but they aren't long enough to fill out a novel, they're more like a part of a chapter or just a short chapter of a novel. I don't even hesitate though, I just spit out the words as if I'm reading a book aloud to myself, making every work/line up as I go. They're almost always sad and very depressing. It's like I *need* to be depressed.
This morning I dreamed of this "spark", ask I call them, who used to be my old baby sitter who is actually a beautiful person on the inside and out. Those are people I call "sparks". Usually a person who doesn't abuse others with their amazing talents and looks, brag, let it go to their head, and everyone wants to be around them because they are so positive, fun, and full of (positive) energy. I'm attracted to these people like a magnet. I've been around and met thousands of the opposite type of person. Very attractive/beautiful people who use their looks as a weapon, to hurt people, to get what only THEY want, are self-absorbed, egotistical, Narcissistic, and so on, and these people usually have 0 special skills or talents, maybe some of the men being good at one or two sports. Big whoop. The Sparks are usually good at everything they put their mind to, are the nicest people you ever want to meet, don't have a mean bone in their body, get on the honors list every single semester, and she was the main star in her dance production company's nutcracker ballet and didn't let it go to their head (at all), and so many other things.
Anyway, so I dreamed that I spoke to the babysitter down the street, after I befriended her on facebook, and it's literally been years. She was 13-14 when we last spoke. She was gorgeous/adorable even then. I saw a picture of her at 17 and shes even more beautiful, which I knew she would be. (to compare her to an old coworkers daughter who is beautiful and 17, she's a complete b*tch), So my whispered fantasy was that she came to me and told me she had a crush on me since she first met me, and wanted to "do something about it", now. I said, even if you were 18, I told her I was 41 and I was flattered as hell if not just plain dreaming, and was thinking of considering seeing her secretly at 18, but that it would never work, and once she went away to college, it would break my heart as she would fall in love with someone her own age, as I told her she should, and she would forget about me. And yada yada yada. It would have made a nice chapter to some book about teenage love and adult fantasies. (like that movie with Kevin Spacey). I cried softly, in real life when I had to turn her down, which is why I say there's always some sad part in these fantasies that makes me cry and how I wish I could have been 19 again so I could have started my life all over again with her, my perfect choice for a soul-mate.
Many of the stories have to do with exactly that, getting a second chance from an angel who notices my intense pain and grants me my wish to start over again, of course, removing my depression from my brain. I'm obsessed with Angels, not the little porcelain babies with wings, but the wrath of god angels, that are more like warriors than anything else (see the prophecy trilogy, and there's been some other really cool ones, where the angels are always men, old testament, etc. Michael, Rafael, etc.
Anyway, that's just one example (or two). I've had a score of others. All with parts that make me cry. Instead of just dreaming them, which I also do, I've had the same dream 5-6 nights in a row, like a sitcom, all with the same characters, me being one of them (but I'm not "me"), all with different story lines. If I could only remember every single detail and write them down. In the past I've had repeat dreams, but never an evolving dream that literally has a cast of characters, that I completely invented (I don't watch tv or movies anymore - lost interest due to depression). The amount of detail and creativity in the dreams astounds me.
Anyway, what I've been expecting is to be sleeping all day long, instead, I've been wide awake with no interest in getting out of bed, coupled with the intense headache pain, dizziness and stomach pain. Instead, I'm wide awake, and the last 2 days in bed felt like an eternity. Usually when I'm bedridden due to depression, I sleep most of the day without any difficulty or sleep aids (only needed at night for some odd reason), but I'm not tired at all now and I'm still getting up exactly at 2:00 am (so strange) every morning, when I try to go back to bed without much success. Passing the time with the pain in my stomach and head is somewhat unbearable. I was considering going in-patient again, just so they could give me some sedatives. Or, maybe I could meet a pretty single depressed patient there I could date ;).. There were 3 women at the last inpatient stay that were attracted to me, but were all spoken for. I think one (unknown one) was vying for me, but I wasn't interested. I of course wanted the 27 year old blond ;) (I'm 41). But, during my last stay, they give you nice pain meds, but they never ever gave me sedatives, but when I was there, I had no trouble sleeping like I am now.
This is my first day out of bed and I don't know what to do with myself. I've been waiting for the crying storm to hit. I don't understand why it hasn't yet. When I took myself of Nardil before, I think I tapered it as well, and I suffered those (not sure what to call them but just to describe them), supremely intense, hyperventilating, chest pounding, lying in fetal position, extremely loud sobbing/yelling/crying feeling like you are literally having a heart attack and hit with THE WORST mental anguish you've ever felt in your entire life. You can't think rationally at all, you can't stop the crying, hyperventilating, intense suicidal thoughts, you just have to ride out whatever the hell is happening to you. I believe this is when most suicides occur. They are just too overwhelming too deal with. I've been blessed/cursed with an iron will. Very soon after going down off Nardil, I had two of these, and 1 after going back on Nardil for a month, the worst one I ever had (the most intense and "earth-shaking"/powerful". They are IMPOSSIBLE to explain, they look like you are having a heart attack or a convulsion (think ECT), you cannot really talk or do anything else but suffer HORRIBLY with the worst depressive thoughts that your mind can invent being launched at you at 100 miles an hour, not a single one of them being real (but not always), and multiple feelings of grief at the same time. I almost didn't survive the last one. I just kept yelling the name of the soul-mate I lost named Sarah. All I wanted was her to be there to hold me and help me ride out the pain. I told my wife to leave. I didn't want her there. The whole event lasted 2+ hours. The worst being in the first 30 mins. It was unbearable.
They should have returned by now. I haven't been on ANY AD meds for 3 days now. I still feel suicidal, but mainly because I don't feel I'll ever fall in love again, not from the chemical side of things (which I take Nardil for) and knowing any drug I take will poop out by the time I *might* get accepted into a certain DBS study Im applying for. I'm not going to start the Selegeline unless I absolutely have to. I'm at a loss as to what's going on.
If anyone can shed some light, please let me know. It's as if my chemical depression decided to go on hold for some reason. You never know, I could have an "attack" later today. I need to find the energy to fill out the DBS study application, but my headache always kicks in when I fill it out. :(
Take care. Sorry this was a novel. I have NO one else to really talk to.
My own brother had NO comment when I told him I might only have 1-2 years left to live. Amazing family I have huh?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 22, 2010, at 15:38:39
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now!, posted by Enigma on August 22, 2010, at 11:12:09
>I found a guy, at a primary care facility no less, and he actually prescribed me a one time, 30 day supply of Selegeline. He seemed to really care about not wanting me to die. First doc that really seemed to care that I've seen in a while, so I made him my PCP.
OK, well that's a good start. Perhaps you will do better with this PCP than a pdoc.
Did he give you selegiline tablets? But you're not going to start them?
Posted by softheprairie on August 22, 2010, at 17:10:13
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now!, posted by Enigma on August 22, 2010, at 11:12:09
_Please_, call a pharmacist to ask how long of a washout is needed between Nardil and selegiline. I'm glad to hear you haven't started the next one since it's just been a few days off the Nardil.
It's great that you found a primary care doctor who cares about you staying alive.About your brother not having anything to say, it may be he just didn't know what to say, and figured it was better to not say anything than say something dumb or insensitive. I often don't know the words to say.
Posted by Phillipa on August 22, 2010, at 20:06:38
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now! » Enigma, posted by softheprairie on August 22, 2010, at 17:10:13
I'm also glad you found a doc. So you are seriously thinking inpatient? Phillipa
Posted by Enigma on August 23, 2010, at 14:23:49
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now! » Enigma, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 22, 2010, at 15:38:39
> >I found a guy, at a primary care facility no less, and he actually prescribed me a one time, 30 day supply of Selegeline. He seemed to really care about not wanting me to die. First doc that really seemed to care that I've seen in a while, so I made him my PCP.
>
> OK, well that's a good start. Perhaps you will do better with this PCP than a pdoc.
>
> Did he give you selegiline tablets? But you're not going to start them?Well, you're technically supposed to wait like 2 weeks after stopping one MAOI and starting another one right? (or even starting an SSRI too?) Could have sworn a few pdocs told me that. I think the longest I've ever waited was a week though. The first two days I was off Nardil I felt "ok", which was odd, because when I went off of Nardil a few months ago, I got those horrible crying attacks right away.. maybe I went off it cold turkey.. dunno. I don't recall.
The PCP is only going to write me the one 30 day supply of Selly. He told me to get a shrink for ongoing scripts. So I'm back on that again, but they aren't TRD experts or even close. No one around here is. On about the 3rd day I felt really tired, and slept most of the day away and felt my chemical depression coming back. The "love-live" depression, never went away is worse that ever. I'm curious to see how long I can go without AD meds. The sooner I start Selly, the sooner it's just gonna poop out. I'd like to at least have a p-doc before I start again. Who knows.
I'm more upset about my love-life, the constant headaches I've been getting for a 2-3 weeks now, and 24/7 stomach pain. Got my 3rd appt at the gastro PA tomorrow, Dr. is still a week away. The stomach pain is the most annoying because it just plain doesn't stop, ever. It just goes from bad to really bad, then back to bad again.
Who knows, I might pop a Selly tonight, but might wait for the upper GI test they wanna run tomorrow to check for an ulcer or something like it.
Still talking to myself while I lie in bed and can't sleep, "dreaming out loud" I guess. It just makes me more sad because I can't stop thinking of all the cool, very realistic things love-life type stuff that "could" easily happen in real life, but just doesn't. I'd probably take a chainsaw to my tv if someone made me watch another love story movie. When the guy is almost always less attractive than the woman. I can't take it anymore.
Posted by Enigma on August 23, 2010, at 14:28:41
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now!, posted by Phillipa on August 22, 2010, at 20:06:38
> I'm also glad you found a doc. So you are seriously thinking inpatient? Phillipa
Only if I went in on my own and could leave on my own, like the last 2 times I went in, AND they can heal this 24/7 pain in my stomach, and stop these 3-4x times a day severe headaches. I can't deal with them on top of the depression.
I wonder if Selegeline will have any effect on the depression and sadness I get from being without a girlfriend and in love and such. I'll y'all know a week or two after I start it. I'm sure it won't have much of an effect right away, and I'm going up on it slowly to be safe.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 23, 2010, at 14:53:46
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now!, posted by Enigma on August 23, 2010, at 14:28:41
>....the depression and sadness I get from being without a girlfriend and in love and such.
But is that your problem right now, Enigma? I'm not in love right now either, I'm alone. I don't have a partner, millions of people don't. I suspect that your depression is not caused by not having a gf, nor would it disappear if you did. Whilst you continue to be severely depressed, it's inevitably going to be very difficult to get a girlfriend. Depression is not attractive, it is not appealing - and don't I know it! I think you need to do all you can in order to get your depression under control. Once you have achieved this, that's the time to start thinking about getting a gf.
First of all, you need to get a new pdoc. TRD is an exceptionally common problem in psychiatry and all pdocs see patients with TRD. Not many advertise themselves as being 'TRD specialists' but perhaps this is because they consider that all pdocs should have (at least some) knowledge of TRD. Just because a pdoc doesn't call themself a TRD specialist doesn't mean that they won't be able to help you. The most helpful pdocs aren't always the ones who've got the best credentials. You should go to see someone new - and who knows how much they might be able to help you.
Posted by Enigma on August 24, 2010, at 19:46:15
In reply to Re: 'Best Psychiatrist' list - I'm Off Nardil now! » Enigma, posted by ed_uk2010 on August 23, 2010, at 14:53:46
> >....the depression and sadness I get from being without a girlfriend and in love and such.
>
> But is that your problem right now, Enigma? I'm not in love right now either, I'm alone. I don't have a partner, millions of people don't. I suspect that your depression is not caused by not having a gf, nor would it disappear if you did. Whilst you continue to be severely depressed, it's inevitably going to be very difficult to get a girlfriend. Depression is not attractive, it is not appealing - and don't I know it! I think you need to do all you can in order to get your depression under control. Once you have achieved this, that's the time to start thinking about getting a gf.Well, I started Selly already, took 1 pill the first day, and 2 the 2nd day. I already started feeling better the 2nd day with the girlfriend/sadness issues. I'm pretty well aware you can't get a gf if you're depressed. I'm a fairly good actor though (as long as I could keep the crying from occuring), and could go on a date without her knowing, but of course being in a much better mood, then going on a date (if I actually can find someone) would make more sense.
I don't think I cried at all today, which I'm blaming on the meds, and only required one short nap due to boredom.
I got on a new dating site and canceled the hellish one - match dot com (stay FAR away people, seriously, especially if you are a guy. Take my word for it, and don't even question it. It will only bring you pain). So on my new (free) dating site, I already got hit on by a decent looking 40 year old woman who lives about 20 mins away. Sadly, I turned her down as I just wasn't attracted to her. That's going to be the hard part I'm going to face. There's just this "look" I like, and it usually only comes in the 5-10 years younger than me variety. Everyone who ends up liking me, I'm not attracted to, and vice versa. It's really frustrating.
My headaches are diminishing, the daily ones where I get a few a day, and so is the lightheaded feeling I got after stopping Nardil. But my stomach is killing me. Now my Gastro P.A. thinks I might have an ulcer. Yeah, that's all I need. I got to the hospital for <whatever the test is called> on Friday. I'm still sweating like crazy over nothing, but not much at night. I just went to the store to pick up a new drug and it was cool out, but humid, overcast with light rain, and I came home sweating like crazy. I really hope this side effect goes away, AND, I can work out again and lose this gut.I did email this other women I was really attracted to, only a few years younger than me, but I'm sure, she won't feel the same way, even though the site says we're a good match. Otherwise, I was trolling the site, and really didn't see much I was interested in. There are other sites. Still wish I just had (1) divorced friend (I did, but he's a total unreliable jerk, so I told him to screw) to go to my favorite bar with. I wish Boston wasn't so far away from where I live too, as there are some great places you can go there, and go alone without people thinking you're a freak. It's just too far to drive just to meet women, who most likely live there, or even deeper into boston. I'm not the most patient driver - should have seen me in my irritable-bipolar/manic days. Scary stuff. Not for me, but for everyone else on the road.. :(
>
> First of all, you need to get a new pdoc. TRD is an exceptionally common problem in psychiatry and all pdocs see patients with TRD. Not many advertise themselves as being 'TRD specialists' but perhaps this is because they consider that all pdocs should have (at least some) knowledge of TRD. Just because a pdoc doesn't call themself a TRD specialist doesn't mean that they won't be able to help you. The most helpful pdocs aren't always the ones who've got the best credentials. You should go to see someone new - and who knows how much they might be able to help you.
>
>
Still trying, and trying. They keep promising to call back and never do. We keep playing phone tag. Annoying.
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