![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 63. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
To all who are familiar with the term racing thoughts,
I've been to three different pdocs that have all agreed I have Bipolar. The catch is, is that I don't really have mood swings, rather I have symptoms that are attributed towards mania - racing thoughts, random thoughts, high confidence, etc. These types of symptoms are usually attributed towards BP1, and I have been treated as such. I first started out on Lithium (900mg), which I saw an improvement. I found that I was less edgy than I used to be. But, that did not take care of my racing thoughts. So we tried Lamictal all the way up to 400mg, but, that didn't do anything. Now we're tapering off (I'm at 200mg as of now). I didn't really feel as if Lamictal did much for me. It elevated my mood a little, but nothing too significant that I could've got out of another drug. So next, my pdoc prescribed seroquel, hoping this would do the trip with the racing thoughts. Nope. I was taking 150mg seroquel xr before bed.My thoughts still go very fast and I have no control over them. This symptom has ruined my ability to concentrate on tasks at hand and my memory has also been significantly affected... whether it was due to the medication or not, I'm not sure. All of this started from my OCD. The OCD eventually manifested itself into racing/random thought patterns and edgyness. I believe that most of my symptoms stem from my OCD rather than being Bipolar. I believe that my symptoms may look like i have bipolar, but I'm not getting depressed all the time. I don't swing. I'm not sure where to go from here. We're getting off the Lamictal so I'll be left with Seroquel and Lithium, but the Seroquel didn't really do much for me. One question I do have is that whats the difference between racing thoughts driven by bipolar mania versus racing thoughts driven by anxiety?Any thoughts? Possible opinions on my treatment?
Medications:
900mg Lithium Carb
150 mg Seroquel
200 mg Lamictal and weaning
Posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:14:33
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
I am sorry you are going through this. Have you ever tried Zyprexa or Depakote? Zyprexa would probably help calm down the thoughts immediately. The Depakote would take longer because you have get your levels to a certain level in your blood stream.
Have you tried relaxing technics or is mind recing so fast that you can even do that.
I hope you find something that works for and I really think that Zyprexa would be the way to go.
Posted by Phillipa on July 29, 2010, at 17:14:22
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:14:33
Not sure what would determine the difference. I'd also tray a google search of racing thought bipolar vs anxiety? Phillipa
Posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:38:06
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
Hi Cycling,
Did you try an SSRI or NI already? Psychiatrists who only treat symptoms/rx medications will sometimes just stick you on mood stabilizers because it's next on the algorithm if a SSRI or NI did not work or quit working. They use different alogrithms I suppose, but mood stabilizers usually come next...
It seems like your PDoc doesn't know you well? Those medications could be causing more symptoms. I'd wean off all that stuff-slowly and cautiously with your doctor's care-and just take Xanax to see how you feel, to evaluate your symptoms for a while to see what you really have. If you realize your pattern is mostly OCD anxiety after a while, I'd next take the medications to treat that one issue and see how that goes.
If it's not OCD anxiety, it could be GAD that you get so bad you end up with racing thoughts, I'd consider using Klonopin if that happens often, to assess yourself longterm w/o all that other crap. If not, I'd stick with Xanax or another benzo if you only need it on occasion. If it turns out to be both OCD and GAD, I'd try the meds for OCD rather than mood stabilizers. Then see if you need an augment of some sort. I'd then do psychotherapy too.
You could start over with something like Zoloft for both OCD and GAD-after the withrdraw of all that, and see if it stablizes you.
From afar, it does not appear that your psychiatrist understands you. Is your PDoc inexperienced maybe? Racing thoughts are not only a symptom of bipolar-it can come from intense anxiety. Does the doc have benzo phobia? Or maybe you just have been on the med-merry-go round for so long, it's unclear what condition you have now?
Good luck :)
Posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:41:00
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
Oh-you have to take an extra large dose of Zoloft for OCD anxiety...you can find the amount by Googling if you think that's an option for you. If you tried Zoloft in the past, you may have been given the traditional dosage, which usually doesn't work for OCD...
...or-you just might need to find a new psychiatrist?
Posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:49:39
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
Sorry about the extra post, I read a couple of your old messages and see you tried Zoloft 150 mg.
If you had developed those symtpoms after drinking heavily, it could have been just a temporary bipolar. People get misdiagnosed Bipolar I after long-term substance abuse, when it is a common occurence to have those symptoms after quitting. It's your mind not being able to handle all the emotions previously hidden by alcohol or drugs; if you let them emerge slowly, you might end up not being bipolar after all.
If you used that to mask emotions for a long period of time, you probably wouldn't know what you really have unless you wean off all that and restart from scratch. But no doubt, you'd probably need some type of med for a while while you get a sense of your inner state. Those heavy meds would prevent you from addressing your issues, and might make things worse in the long run.
Take good care
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 0:26:28
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:49:39
Thanks for all the help guys. So I have my pdoc appointment on next monday. Quite frankly, I want to get off all of these hard drugs. It's ridiculous. I have anxiety, not bipolar. I'm hoping we'll wean me off of seroquel, lithium, and lamictal (which we are already doing) and maybe put me on zyprexa and a low dose of some ssri (i heard prozac gives good results with zyprexa). Bottom line- I'm not bipolar. Anybody have a medication reccomendations? Or any thoughts about not taking medication at all? I'm also open to that. I'm going to start seeing a psychologist and have a therapist on hte side that will be helping me with the OCD thoughts. My hope is that with all of these tools I'll learn I'll nip OCD right in hte a$$ and be down with this for good. Time to moooveeee on
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 1:19:57
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by Maxime on July 29, 2010, at 15:14:33
> I am sorry you are going through this. Have you ever tried Zyprexa or Depakote? Zyprexa would probably help calm down the thoughts immediately. The Depakote would take longer because you have get your levels to a certain level in your blood stream.
>
> Have you tried relaxing technics or is mind recing so fast that you can even do that.
>
> I hope you find something that works for and I really think that Zyprexa would be the way to go.I made this very same suggestion when this was accidentally posted on the alternative board.
I think Zyprexa is probably the way to go also, but I would try Depakote first for a few weeks and see what happens. I think anyone should try to avoid AP use if they can. If you can't avoid AP use, Zyprexa at a low dose is a good one.
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 1:36:19
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 1:19:57
I dont want APs. I'd rather stick with ADs and see a therapist/psychologist. I don't want hard drugs. My brain is my own pharmacy and it has a lot to offer. Any AD's you'd reccommend according to what I've described?
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 1:39:23
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » violette, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 0:26:28
> Thanks for all the help guys. So I have my pdoc appointment on next monday. Quite frankly, I want to get off all of these hard drugs. It's ridiculous. I have anxiety, not bipolar. I'm hoping we'll wean me off of seroquel, lithium, and lamictal (which we are already doing) and maybe put me on zyprexa and a low dose of some ssri (i heard prozac gives good results with zyprexa). Bottom line- I'm not bipolar. Anybody have a medication reccomendations? Or any thoughts about not taking medication at all? I'm also open to that. I'm going to start seeing a psychologist and have a therapist on hte side that will be helping me with the OCD thoughts. My hope is that with all of these tools I'll learn I'll nip OCD right in hte a$$ and be down with this for good. Time to moooveeee on
How do you know for sure that you are not bipolar?
My old therapist who has a Phd. in clinical psychology and did forensic work for the Fairfax, Co Police Dept. just outside of Washington D.C., thought I simply had bad anxiety and ocd. Two and a half years ago I got off Zoloft and the perfect storm of events and circumstances sent me into a major mixed manic episode landing me in the hospital after 4 weeks of pure hell. Even in the hospital she questioned the BP dx but now she realizes she was wrong.
Do you only have racing obsessive thoughts?
Do you experience insomnia?
Have you ever had periods of being very impulsive?
Are you ever abnormally hyperactive or energetic?
Have you ever found yourself engaging in risky behavior(lots of unprotected sex) on a regular basis that others around you would avoid?
Sorry, I'm just someone who never thought they were bipolar and I fought the diagnosis for 3 days in the hospital and finally broke down and started Depakote and then Zyprexa.
You very well may not be bipolar. I would just keep an open mind. Do you think you resist the possibility of it because of the stigma and the kinds of medications that are used to treat it? Or maybe you just know you don't have BPD because you simply have never exhibited most of the behaviors or experienced most of the symptoms.
Symbyax, the combination of Prozac and Zyprexa is a great drug and may be awesome for treating your symptoms. Eventually you could split the two and ween off Zyprexa once you are doing well and feel stable and fully functional once again. I personally prefer Zoloft over any SSRI for several reasons, but Prozac definitely has been shown to be effective for OCD.
You may want to also consider a low dose of lithium, you don't need to reach toxic therapeutic levels for lithium to be effective. Lithium can be neuroprotective, promote neurogenesis, increase neuronal plasticity, act as an antiviral agent, and increase grey matter.
Depakote isn't the evil drug many make it out to be. If you used it you would be able to ween off it completely or lower the dose eventually. Interestingly, Depakote can increase the production of progenitor stem cells. I just like finding positives in these medications we find ourselves having to take.
Whatever you do, Good luck!!!
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 1:49:21
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
>I've been to three different pdocs that have all agreed I have Bipolar. The catch is, is that I don't really have mood swings, rather I have symptoms that are attributed towards mania - racing thoughts, random thoughts, high confidence, etc.
Those sound like symptoms and behaviors of someone who falls under what I call the "bipolar spectrum disorders". Just curious, can you continue the list beyond etc.?
You don't have to have classic mood swings to be bipolar. And if it goes untreated, and you don't take the right precautions and protect yourself, you could end up have a very ugly episode one day. Hell, if you do well on an SSRI, which many people under the bipolar spectrum can, just staying on the SSRI and not getting off thinking you are better(what I did) could protect you from a bad bad life changing episode. I suggest you do some more research on bipolar, you might be surprised what you find. When I was in the hospital, one of the counselors there said she had seen people diagnosed with bipolar that had only experienced depressive episodes. Now, I will admit, over the past ten years or so, bipolar disorder has become the diagnosis du jor. While I do believe it has been over diagnosed for this reason, I also think there was a reason why bipolar started being diagnosed more in the first place. Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 1:55:35
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 1:36:19
> I dont want APs. I'd rather stick with ADs and see a therapist/psychologist. I don't want hard drugs. My brain is my own pharmacy and it has a lot to offer. Any AD's you'd reccommend according to what I've described
You did say you were open minded to Zyprexa right?
I think Prozac may be the best for your racing obsessive thoughts, but you may experience 3 or so weeks of nothing or agitation before it kicks in and works it's magic. My first AD ever was Prozac and literally on like day 21 I took my little strange pill in the morning and an hour later if felt f*ck*ng fantastic, the best I'd ever felt in my life. It worked wonders, I just wish I had known I was bipolar at the time because I may have been more careful about what I did with my life and my brain(the eventual drinking benders and wild and crazy days may have been tempered by the knowledge of a bipolar diagnosis. Would have saved my life, literally bro).
I love Zoloft because it does so many cool things and is less likely to cause sexual dysfunction and apathy. But it may be too stimulating for you. You never know until you try.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 1:57:26
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:49:39
>If you had developed those symtpoms after drinking heavily, it could have been just a temporary bipolar.
But usually when people experience this type of reaction to a drink binge or bender, they often do fall under the bipolar spectrum.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 2:58:04
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 1:36:19
You're probably frustrated with a few of my posts. I don't blame you if you are.
I also don't blame you for wanting to avoid drugs like mood stabilizers and atypical antipsychotics.
Do you mind my asking how old you are?
Take Care,
Morgan
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 3:14:51
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 2:58:04
Don't be sorry, you are like a godsend right now helping me out with this and trying to figure it out. So I just took an online mental screening test through my psychologist website testing for bipolar and general anxiety disorder. (specialtybehavioralhealth.com/mental-health-test)
According to the tests, I did not have Bipolar but I did have GAD. Now I don't know how accurate those tests are, but my psychologists uses it on his website so that has to mean something. So let me extend my experience.
I started college and starting experiencing OCD and its manifestations... doubting everything from sexuality to my relationships with friends. I came quite paranoid. I experimented with marijuana and even dabbled with cocaine a few times but that was it. The bad part was that I was a heavy drinker.. about 30 drinks/wk for a long period of time. I'd take the summers off, but during school year, almost every weekend was that. When I first came to my psychiatrist I was alll wound up, so he put me on lithium and that took the edge off, but didn't do ANYTHING for my thoughts. I still had so many thoughts going through my head that I had trouble concnetrationg and my short term memory sucked. To stop the racing thoughts he's put me on Lamictal-that didn't work (weaning off now). Then he tried seroquel (I've seen a little bit of improvement). He also gave me Klonopin which I started a day ago, which I intend to take every other day to see how that works out. I've started therapy today, and honestly, after just one day, I feel better already. I've been exercising daily, and ready to get done with these thoughts that's holding be back to fully enjoying the life I used to have - a life with confidence. I'm sick and tired of this and I'm doing everything in my will to get over this. I'm cool with a low dose of lithium, but these hard a$$ drugs I don't think is for me. I want to try an ssri and see what happens. My doctor didn't give me an ssri at first because he thought that'd make the "mania" even worse. He attributed my racing thoughts as mania. Now, don't get me wrong, I have alot of energy. I've been energetic guy all my life. I thought I just was hyper, my mom was hyper and we always joked I took after my mom. My father has OCD for sure. I still feel like I'm not "calm." I often have problems loosing my temper and irritable sometimes. I feel sometimes that I'm in this constant state of fear and hte littlest things I'll react to, even if my fly wizzes by I flinch. I hate it, I feel like a wimp...also, i'm 23. so what do you think?
Posted by Hombre on July 30, 2010, at 3:16:04
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 2:58:04
If you haven't already, I'd check out this page:
http://www.psycheducation.org/index.html
It's all about depression with symptoms of agitation, anxiety, racing thoughts, insomnia, etc.
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:04:06
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 3:14:51
> Don't be sorry, you are like a godsend right now helping me out with this and trying to figure it out. So I just took an online mental screening test through my psychologist website testing for bipolar and general anxiety disorder. (specialtybehavioralhealth.com/mental-health-test)
> According to the tests, I did not have Bipolar but I did have GAD. Now I don't know how accurate those tests are, but my psychologists uses it on his website so that has to mean something. So let me extend my experience.
> I started college and starting experiencing OCD and its manifestations... doubting everything from sexuality to my relationships with friends. I came quite paranoid. I experimented with marijuana and even dabbled with cocaine a few times but that was it. The bad part was that I was a heavy drinker.. about 30 drinks/wk for a long period of time. I'd take the summers off, but during school year, almost every weekend was that. When I first came to my psychiatrist I was alll wound up, so he put me on lithium and that took the edge off, but didn't do ANYTHING for my thoughts. I still had so many thoughts going through my head that I had trouble concnetrationg and my short term memory sucked. To stop the racing thoughts he's put me on Lamictal-that didn't work (weaning off now). Then he tried seroquel (I've seen a little bit of improvement). He also gave me Klonopin which I started a day ago, which I intend to take every other day to see how that works out. I've started therapy today, and honestly, after just one day, I feel better already. I've been exercising daily, and ready to get done with these thoughts that's holding be back to fully enjoying the life I used to have - a life with confidence. I'm sick and tired of this and I'm doing everything in my will to get over this. I'm cool with a low dose of lithium, but these hard a$$ drugs I don't think is for me. I want to try an ssri and see what happens. My doctor didn't give me an ssri at first because he thought that'd make the "mania" even worse. He attributed my racing thoughts as mania. Now, don't get me wrong, I have alot of energy. I've been energetic guy all my life. I thought I just was hyper, my mom was hyper and we always joked I took after my mom. My father has OCD for sure. I still feel like I'm not "calm." I often have problems loosing my temper and irritable sometimes. I feel sometimes that I'm in this constant state of fear and hte littlest things I'll react to, even if my fly wizzes by I flinch. I hate it, I feel like a wimp...also, i'm 23. so what do you think?I still think you may have a bipolar predisposition. You sound a lot like me in college. I may have taken drinking to an even greater extreme though putting down 20 drinks in just a night sometimes, my tolerance was rediculous(sh*t I did this on and off into my late 30s. Had tons of fun but it was not good for me in the long run).
You're not a wimp, dude, you're just on edge. I think it's great that you are exercising and seeing a therapist-two of the best things you could be doing for yourself in the long run.
Psychiatrists are a little too cautious about using SSRIs for people that may fall under the bipolar spectrum, IMHO. But you can't really blame them, after seeing how so many people have been sent into mania on SSRIs and other ADs. I still think it is worth taking the risk in some cases. Better to live and feel alive and function well on an SSRI than some of these other mind numbing drugs they hand out like freakin candy.
I think it might be worth revisiting lithium at a low dose, maybe 150 to 300 mg of Lithobid, the extended release version. If you can, you may want to order some lithium orotate(I think NOW has a good one) off the internet and try taking a few of those everyday, may be worth a shot.
I say try Prozac or Zoloft, especially if you add a little Lithium. I would do this before resorting to Zyprexa. Just pay attention to what is going on with you and your behavior when or if you start to feel better on Prozac or Zoloft. If you are on the high energy kinda wacky happy all the time side of things this may be a further indication of bipolar.
I would try to use Klonopin on just an as needed basis when things are really bad. You just don't want to get hooked on a benzo, that's the last thing you need. Besides, your brain is still finishing up some fine tuning, completing the final touches on myelination amongst other things. I have no idea if Klonopin would interfere with this or not, but long term benzodiazepine use has been associated with possible brain damage and cognitive issues. Then again, there are many psychiatric drugs that are thought to possibly alter the brain in a negative way. Don't let that scare you away from starting some kind of treatment though. The stress your brain is under right now can potentially do damage and cause unwanted alterations as well, maybe more than the right treatment will. So you definitely want to do something to try to get you back to feeling well again. I know, this is starting to sound a bit sticky, well, it is.
Dude, believe me, you want to be open minded to the possibility of some type of bipolar, it will empower you to protect yourself and prevent a possible devastating major episode in the future. I would talk to your therapist about it. On that note, keep in mind that you most likely do have something going on in your subconscious that is contributing to all of this. Whatever these subconscious complex emotional issues may be, they are rooted in whatever occurred during your development. And, these things could be contributing to triggering any predisposition you may have, whether it be bipolar, OCD, anxiety, depression, or all of the above. Often you will realize that many of your symptoms and behaviors(OCD, Bipolar, Anxiety) are manifestations of underlying depression. This is why it is so important that you stick with therapy and nip some things in the but while you are young. You may find that you will have to return to therapy once or twice and find a new therapist for whatever reason down the road. Just keep this in mind.
My old therapist once told me that her professor described mania(Remember mania can manifest in different forms, not just the classic form that we are all accustomed to hearing about)as a flight from reality. So any racing thoughts, OCD, high energy, unusually high confidence, lack of sleep or lack of the need for sleep, may be reactions to(flights from) the ugly and scary reality that is inside you or around you or both. This reality may be underlying sadness/depression and/or anger. It's very complicated.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:25:37
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds » morgan miller, posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 3:14:51
Sheesh, I may be in the manic up all night mode tonight. Not a destabilizing state, just an unusually awake state.
Do you think your parents would give you some extra money to try a few supplements to help with some of your symptoms? Or maybe you have access to the money of your own. A few supplements I would suggest trying that may be able to replace the Klonopin are:
Magnesium(glycinate, malate-may be the best cheapest version, taurinate, or citrate)-calming effect on the mind. May help with sleep
Taurine-also may have a calming effect, this is why taurine is in energy drinks to possibly offset the jittery effect of caffeine. May also help with sleep
Glycine-NMDA antagonist which may protect against glutamate toxicity-something you could be experiencing right now. Glycine can also improve sleep.
N-Acetyl-Cysteine-Also antagonizes NMDA(or at least I think???) and has been shown to be effect for some at treating symptoms of OCD.
GABA(Gamma Amino Butyric Acid)-GABA is the "calming" neurotransmitter thought to be influenced by benzodiazepines like Klonopin, the reason for the therapeutic effect. GABA is an amino acid supplement you can by that the Vitamin Shoppe or Wholefoods or any other health/vitamin store. It can have a calming effect and also help with sleep.
I would start out with Magnesium, Glycine, and GABA. Then add NAC and maybe Taurine to the mix after a few weeks of experimentation with the other ones. Whatever you do, first try each one by themselves for a day or two so you know what is doing what. Then if you feel like the first 3 may help, take 2 of them at the same time or all of them at once and see how you feel. These supplements are going to help you out the most at night when you need to chill out and eventually crash. You can experiment to see which ones you react well to during the day.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:40:03
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:25:37
I almost forgot, if you are taking Magnesium, you probably want to take a certain amount of calcium. Calcium citrate is one of the best forms. I believe you want to take say 100 percent the RDA of calcium if you take 100 percent the RDA of magnesium. I could be wrong about this ratio, you might want to research this a bit.
I think most of the supplements I listed are pretty cheap, especially if you go to the Vitamin Shoppe or order them online through iHerb or the Vitamin Shoppe. Definitely do not go to Wholefoods, just disregard that I ever mentioned "WholeDollar" : )
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:46:23
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion + Meds, posted by morgan miller on July 30, 2010, at 4:40:03
Actually iHerb and Vitacost are probably the cheapest most reliable sources for supplements on the internet. Vitamin Shoppe online is good too.
Posted by Hombre on July 30, 2010, at 5:52:21
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
If you want to go by the book, what Morgan said is what most algorithms suggest. Depakote and/or lithium, or maybe Zyprexa.
Controlling the racing thoughts and agitation is priority #1. You have enough insight to know that what you're experiencing right now isn't good for you, but it may be hard to strategize while your attention is being distracted by the racing thoughts.
I fought the BP diagnosis because I didn't want the headache of taking so many meds and the stigma. But until I allowed the BP treatments I did not know real peace and a full night's rest. Sometimes I did't know how much better things could be because we only talk about disease, not being robustly healthy: Calm, but energetic; relaxed but confident. Eating and sleeping like a baby. Laughing and not taking things seriously. Doing the things you want to do and able to do the things you have to do without feeling like every day is an emergency.
The diagnosis is just a handle for which treatments to try. I'd take a fistful of meds if that was what was necessary to feel well. I don't really know what my "true" diagnosis is, and it doesn't matter. Allowing the greatest range of options to serve you just seems like the way to go. Whatever it takes to get you well.
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 6:45:27
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 29, 2010, at 20:49:39
> If you had developed those symtpoms after drinking heavily, it could have been just a temporary bipolar. People get misdiagnosed Bipolar I after long-term substance abuse, when it is a common occurence to have those symptoms after quitting. It's your mind not being able to handle all the emotions previously hidden by alcohol or drugs; if you let them emerge slowly, you might end up not being bipolar after all.
I have seen this happen numerous times with MICA (mentally ill chemical abuser) patients.
- Scott
Posted by violette on July 30, 2010, at 12:45:06
In reply to Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion, posted by cycling on July 29, 2010, at 14:49:07
Hi Cycling,
I was just thinking your PDoc doesn't know you well because I think it's highly possible that you don't know you well.
If your PDoc doesn't have alot of experience with D&A, You'd likely get the best treatment with a dual diagnosis specialist. Additionally, you'd probably find out the best meds/course of treatment from the NA or AA people. My friend used to go there, and the experienced people at her group had watched dozens of people become bipolar after quitting D&A. Those people really know how to deal with this stuff.
Then again, alot of people don't like being in one of those programs-because if you were assigned a sponser you'd have to do the 12 steps. So if you don't want to do the program, you'd probably not have an experienced person to work with closely. Either way, you could still show up at a few meetings and get information from experienced people-you don't have to do the 12 steps to hang out there and talk to experienced people. That could be worth a try?
That's great you're doing therapy. Just be wary if its CBT-that type of therapy could just strengthen other emotional defense mechanisms while the source of them goes unaddressed (and new or worse symptoms could pop up later). It's helpful to just have someone to talk to regardless, but psychodyanmic therapy gets to the source of the symptoms, which are often emotional crap from the past.
Mood dysregulation can express as bipolar, ocd, anxiety, paranoia-whatever-can be addressed with therapy. Maybe someday you'll no longer need meds.
Perhaps you have always been bipolar, and I think it's good you are restarting the Klonopin-which can be a mood stablizer itself. At least till you get a feel for your symptoms by quitting the heavy drugs. If that doesn't work-you could add an AD or Zyprexa later. Klonopin isn't usually addictive since there are no immediate affects, though I guess it could be for some. I hated it as it just made me tired and gave me headaches. The Klonopin could be a temporary thing you change later after spending time and therapy and weaning off the heavier drugs to see what your main symptoms are. If it is mostly OCD anxiety, that is the more difficult one to treat...but especially at your age, it would be good to narrow them down now that you are not doing the heavy drinking.
Best of luck to you! :)
Posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 13:12:22
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » cycling, posted by violette on July 30, 2010, at 12:45:06
> Just be wary if its CBT-that type of therapy could just strengthen other emotional defense mechanisms while the source of them goes unaddressed (and new or worse symptoms could pop up later)
Is there something on the Internet you could refer me to regarding this?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by cycling on July 30, 2010, at 13:28:32
In reply to Re: Racing/Anxiety Thoughts, Need Opinion » violette, posted by SLS on July 30, 2010, at 13:12:22
Honestly I'm not afraid of having a little Bipolar, but I'm always told to follow my gut, and my gut feeling says this is isn't typical bipolar. I think I can agree with you that some of these bipolar meds can help with some of my symptoms simply becasue they are typical of bipolar. It's been mentioned more than one in this thread that a med like Zyprexa or Depakote + SSRI would be a good choice, which I think has been that best idea so far. The SSRI would possibly take care of the OCD, and the AP would treat the racing thoughts. I agree that I need to take care of the edgyness and the irritability. I like the idea to take the klonopin. I'm thinking maybe I can ween off of the meds I'm on now to take on a new regiment while taking klonopin to keep me stablized which I'm transitioning. Ideas?
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