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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 52. Go back in thread:
Posted by ed_uk on May 28, 2005, at 19:02:22
In reply to Re: Me three, posted by Declan on May 28, 2005, at 18:24:47
>My guess is that this is even worse in The States.
I'd say it's worse in the UK that in most countries.
/Ed
Posted by Maxime on May 28, 2005, at 20:06:16
In reply to the way I see it, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 18:43:28
Sometimes it scares me as to how rational it feels and seems. People say that suicide is cowardly, but if they had to live with my brain, would they think the same thing?
For me it's a not a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It's a permanent solution to a problem that is going to plague for the rest of my life and a person can only suffer so much. Take pills. Try this and that only to end up feeling much worse.
I very much want to leave this world. And I think that with the amount of suffering I have gone through I earned the right to make that decision. People wouldn't think I was a coward if they had to live in body for a week! Actually we are all very strong people.
Maxime
> We as humans are so dumb, that even if we found pill that cured depression, we would bump up our standards and our expectations of ourselves so that we would all become depressed again.
>
> The reason I want to kill myself seems so rational to me. It just seems like the most clear cut and logical thing to do. Perhaps thats the lemming genes inside me, but I really don't see it another way. Its like my brain has done the math and said, heres what the formula computes.
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by MidnightBlue on May 28, 2005, at 20:27:59
In reply to Re: the way I see it, posted by Maxime on May 28, 2005, at 20:06:16
I have fought depression--serious depression--on and off for 30 years. In addition I am in almost constant physical pain from orthopedic problems. To choose to live isn't always an easy choice, but it is the RIGHT choice and the best choice.
Each of you have so much to give. This world would be a much sadder place without you.
MidnightBlue
Posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 20:59:58
In reply to Re: the way I see it, posted by MidnightBlue on May 28, 2005, at 20:27:59
But thats the thing. At this stage all people can say to me is things like:
Suicide is wrong...
You will go to hell....
Think of all the people that you will be hurting..
You are a coward for thinking this...I think it is all very pathetic. People realize that they can't make you feel better, so they turn the tables and try to make you feel worse. They *guilt* you into staying alive. AS IF we don't have enough guilt in our lives already.
If your brain does't register pleasure then little else matters.
I feel like saying. Give me 4 weeks, I'd load you up with reserpine, periactin, neuroleptics, opiate blockers, acutaine, and give you 24 hour injections of exceedinly high levels of cortisol, and other inflammitory molecules. I'd inject substances that block the formation of neurons in hippocampus. Just give me 4 weeks and I could make you think about death every second you are alive.
There is no right and wrong, there is only pain and pleasure, and I am sorry but nobody is immune to this. The happiest person in the world could turn very suicidal given the wrong brain chemistry.
I basically *feel* like telling people to work on a cure, or don't talk to me about the issue.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 21:03:17
In reply to Re: the way I see it, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 20:59:58
Thats exactly it. It is not a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Suicide is extrordinarily temporary (If you do it the right way you suffer more than a few seconds)
Staying alive with depression permanent.
Linkadge
Posted by stresser on May 28, 2005, at 21:48:00
In reply to Re: the way I see it, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 21:03:17
Link,
I am HAPPY, to see that you are back. I am hurting for you, and don't want you to feel this pain. Please hang in there for us! You don't know what I felt when I saw your name on the posts. -L
Posted by 4WD on May 28, 2005, at 23:19:09
In reply to Re: the way I see it » linkadge, posted by stresser on May 28, 2005, at 21:48:00
I just want the pain to end. And when the pain is bad, like it is right now, it is impossible to feel like it will ever be better.
Right now, I'm not even depressed. I'm just suicidally scared. And I've been scared all day and fighting it all day and it won't go away and I've tried every drug and I've felt scared every day for months and terrified more days than not and I'm so sick of it that I just feel so frustrated and angry and my doctors don't understand or care if they did understand and they're not the ones who come jolting awake every morning after not enough sleep with fear roiling around in their stomachs and I hate them all.
And I am depressed because constant fear = despair.
Linkadge I am so glad you are here.
Marsha
Posted by yesac on May 28, 2005, at 23:56:44
In reply to Re: exactly!, posted by linkadge on May 28, 2005, at 17:04:22
> Have you spend the last 72 hours shaking, vomiting, and wracking your brain for the best, and most effective way to end your life ??
> Click Here
>
Oh, I wait with baited breath for the banner that will someday lighten up my world.... or, more accurately, the drug it's pushing will lighten up my world...Have you spent the last 10 or so years in suicidal despair, increasing with each new drug you tried that didn't work? Are you looking for something that will make you not feel like murdering people, kicking your cats, and crashing your car? Do you need something that will help you focus and get your work done so that you might actually graduate and make something of yourself? Hey! Do you need a hint of self-confidence?.... Have we got the drug for you!....
Posted by yesac on May 29, 2005, at 0:05:15
In reply to Re: Me three, posted by Declan on May 28, 2005, at 18:24:47
> You're right there, they are not neccesarily temporary at all. But we live, at least here in Australia, in a culture that is really unhelpful with the whole issue of, well suffering I suppose. There is this kind of mindless reflexive mass denial, you see it in the standard greeting "How are you?", a way of committing you too to the denial psychology when you lie to fit in. Other cultures have been better at this than ours. My guess is that this is even worse in The States.
I don't know if it's worse here, worse in the UK, worse in Canada... Basically I just think it's pretty bad everywhere. I am a graduate student in a mental health profession, and still I feel that it is not quite okay to talk about these things, it's not okay to be "one of them". Maybe I am reading things wrong or I am too sensitive... I'm not sure. But the feeling I get at school is that, even if we can all open our minds and accept those with mental illness or any other type of "oddity", it's still not totally okay, and it's certainly not something to talk about openly. We still all have to pretend that, yes of course we're stressed out because that's graduate school, but really everything is terrific and we're very happy. I could never ever mention my misery or my intense struggles with mental illness.
Posted by Declan on May 29, 2005, at 0:43:41
In reply to Re: Me three, posted by yesac on May 29, 2005, at 0:05:15
In Buddhism the first noble truth is the truth of suffering. I was so impressed with that. Dunno if this has any influence on their culture. Our equivalent might be the difference between right and wrong. Anyway Buddhists encourage you to treat your emotions as a mother might care for her child. Lots of attention to feelings and not much action on them. You know those Tibetan paintings, with all the skulls and severed heads? Anyway here we can and do talk about all that stuff which is why we're all here I guess. But the popular culture's a joke
Declan
Posted by linkadge on May 29, 2005, at 1:07:29
In reply to It's not really that I want to die,, posted by 4WD on May 28, 2005, at 23:19:09
Thats exactly it. I when you go down the list of the symptoms for major depression, I don't even fufull the criteria. But I am suicidal. It is like something is going on in my mind that just won't stop.
Antidepressants make me feel like I have entered a different dimention, I don't even recognize myself, or my own home etc. I look at my house and I say, that doesn't look like my house, it looks like something from hansel and grettle.
Thats why I hate "antidepressants" so much. I call them distractors. They don't solve my problems, they distract me from my problems.
And then when my body adjusts to them, I realize that nothing has changed.Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on May 29, 2005, at 1:11:12
In reply to Re: Me three, posted by yesac on May 29, 2005, at 0:05:15
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 29, 2005, at 11:52:03
In reply to School is a forced rat swim test (nm) » yesac, posted by linkadge on May 29, 2005, at 1:11:12
Hi, everyone,
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups not about medication to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050525/msgs/504696.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 29, 2005, at 15:14:12
In reply to Re: Me three, posted by yesac on May 29, 2005, at 0:05:15
> I don't know if it's worse here, worse in the UK, worse in Canada... Basically I just think it's pretty bad everywhere. I am a graduate student in a mental health profession, and still I feel that it is not quite okay to talk about these things, it's not okay to be "one of them". Maybe I am reading things wrong or I am too sensitive... I'm not sure. But the feeling I get at school is that, even if we can all open our minds and accept those with mental illness or any other type of "oddity", it's still not totally okay, and it's certainly not something to talk about openly. We still all have to pretend that, yes of course we're stressed out because that's graduate school, but really everything is terrific and we're very happy. I could never ever mention my misery or my intense struggles with mental illness.
>OMG I totally agree with you. The stigma at school I feel is awful. I dont know if it is the school, or who I know at the school but it is not a place where I would feel comfortable opening up either. And the times I have let things seep out I have not had the most enjoyable experiences.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 29, 2005, at 21:14:20
In reply to i want to die........, posted by woolav on May 24, 2005, at 21:36:28
I have felt this way too, and its horrible. I empathize with you. Have you ever considered ECT? I know it probably seems odd to advocate what may sound extreme, but I hate meds and nothing has ever kicked depressions *ss faster and with fewer side effects for me than ECT (Right Unilateral). I actually sought it out because I can't tolerate meds and knew my time was running out.
Scott
Posted by 4WD on May 29, 2005, at 21:46:38
In reply to Re: i want to die........ » woolav, posted by Mr.Scott on May 29, 2005, at 21:14:20
> I have felt this way too, and its horrible. I empathize with you. Have you ever considered ECT? I know it probably seems odd to advocate what may sound extreme, but I hate meds and nothing has ever kicked depressions *ss faster and with fewer side effects for me than ECT (Right Unilateral). I actually sought it out because I can't tolerate meds and knew my time was running out.
>
> Scott
Is ECT effective for severe anxiety?Marsha
Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2005, at 22:04:32
In reply to Re: i want to die........, posted by 4WD on May 29, 2005, at 21:46:38
Marsha, My old pdoc said no. But that doesn't mean he was right. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 30, 2005, at 7:13:38
In reply to Re: i want to die........, posted by 4WD on May 29, 2005, at 21:46:38
Probably not for pure anxiety disorders, but the only time I was able to decrease my dose of clonazepam without 'too much' trouble was after that last treatment. Likely my depression leads to more intense anxiety.
Scott
Posted by linkadge on May 30, 2005, at 15:21:15
In reply to Re: i want to die........ » 4WD, posted by Mr.Scott on May 30, 2005, at 7:13:38
ECT causes a profound increase in GABA levels in the brain. It is entirely possable that ECT has an antianxiety effect.
Dr.s however rarely deem anxiety a serious enough condition to warrent ECT.
Linkadge
Posted by 4WD on May 30, 2005, at 16:43:56
In reply to Re: i want to die........, posted by linkadge on May 30, 2005, at 15:21:15
> ECT causes a profound increase in GABA levels in the brain. It is entirely possable that ECT has an antianxiety effect.
>
> Dr.s however rarely deem anxiety a serious enough condition to warrent ECT.
>
>
> Linkadge
Hmmmph. You can definitely be just as suicidal from anxiety as you can from depression. When you reach a certain level of anxiety, (read terror) it causes overwhelming despair. You can't escape it and you can't live with it.Marsha
Posted by ed_uk on May 30, 2005, at 16:56:41
In reply to Re: i want to die........, posted by 4WD on May 30, 2005, at 16:43:56
I agree, anxiety can be VERY severe. AFAIK, ECT hasn't been shown to be useful for anxiety though.
Ed.
Posted by woolav on May 31, 2005, at 10:30:45
In reply to Re: i want to die........ » 4WD, posted by ed_uk on May 30, 2005, at 16:56:41
I would be scared to death to do ECT therapy. I havent had the suicidal thoughts for a week or so...I am up to 600mg of trileptal and 300 of lamictal, so hopefully my moods will stable out.
S
Posted by Jazzed on June 1, 2005, at 12:23:40
In reply to i want to die........, posted by woolav on May 24, 2005, at 21:36:28
> i dont know what to do...
Hi Woolav,
I'm SO sorry that you feel this way. I've been there, so I understand. I think maybe you might suggest to your p-doc that, when you're stable, to wean you off the Prozac. See the following:
http://www.psycheducation.org/bipolar/controversy.htm
If he won't listen or consider it, maybe you should seek a 2nd opinion from someone who specializes in bipolar. I haven't been on this board much, so I'm not familiar with your situation. After reading the article that I posted above it seems that the Prozac could be inducing more rapid cycling, AND could be causing each episode of highs and lows to be worse, "kindling".As far as your husband goes. Can't your therapist or p-doc make him understand that this is beyond your control, that's it's due to a chemical imbalance. It's no more in control than if you had any other medical condition. Does he realize how his comments affect you? Are you able to tell him, or write him a letter telling him exactly how you feel, and that you are more than aware of the things you do, but that his pointing them out after the fact only causes you to sink into depression, and that if he truly wants to help you he'll stop badgering you and try to help you instead.
And, as far as feeling suicidal, please keep yourself involved, either on the web, with friends, relatives, anyone who can take your mind off of it for any length of time. Does exercise help? I have to get out and exercise 3 times a day to keep the suicidal feelings at bay, but I do understand that it doesn't work for everyone, and sometimes you're so depressed you can't get yourself out there. Try to think less about an active plan. The less it's planned, the safer you will be.
Jazzed
Posted by Jazzed on June 1, 2005, at 12:34:19
In reply to Re: the way I see it, posted by MidnightBlue on May 28, 2005, at 20:27:59
> I have fought depression--serious depression--on and off for 30 years. In addition I am in almost constant physical pain from orthopedic problems. To choose to live isn't always an easy choice, but it is the RIGHT choice and the best choice.
>
> Each of you have so much to give. This world would be a much sadder place without you.
>
> MidnightBlue
I know you're really trying to help, and I'm sure your words are appreciated, BUT it also comes off as though you're discounting the way some people feel, which I'm sure was not your intention. These feelings can't be helped, they can't just be turned off, they are usually persistant. It's best to talk about it with people who are understanding and non-judgemental.When you say that "chosing to live is the best choice and the right choice", yes, I think we all rationally know that, but if that's the only opinion out there, then it forces the suicidal person underground, to deal with this by themselves, which is NOT helpful. The forums are to support one another no matter what the feelings are. Woolav needs to talk, to express herself, and to know she is among friends who can listen.
Again, I know you were only trying to help, but I strongly suggest that you look at the suicide prevention sites out there, so you can be more helpful next time.
Jazzed
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 1, 2005, at 22:35:33
In reply to Re: the way I see it » MidnightBlue, posted by Jazzed on June 1, 2005, at 12:34:19
> When you say that "chosing to live is the best choice and the right choice", yes, I think we all rationally know that...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding choices to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20050525/msgs/506625.html
Thanks,
Bob
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