![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 43 to 67 of 205. Go back in thread:
Posted by beardedlady on March 31, 2003, at 9:21:01
In reply to Re: what about probiotics?, posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2003, at 10:35:03
I would like to support you in some way now that you have helped me so much. It doesn't look like you need my services as an English professor, as your grammar and punctuation are above par.
If you need to know anything about child rearing, poetry writing, mosaic making, or house painting, just ask away.
beardy : )>
Posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 9:22:18
In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on March 29, 2003, at 23:09:59
> I have upped my Mg to 400 mg, but I tried taking some at noon and became very sleepy. I cannot explain why or how this has worked for me. Stunned, is probably the best word. I seem to sleep much sounder, not longer.
This wasn't addressed to me, but I hope it's ok that I comment. Are you taking boron? See George Eby's magnesium site for discussion of boron: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html#boron Perhaps it would counteract the sleepiness? (I take both.)
Posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 9:41:55
In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium!, posted by Mama Bear on March 29, 2003, at 23:59:21
>Many psychiatric medications are harming you more than they are helping you.
You're preaching to the choir here. :)
>My daughter who is 5 years of age has suffered permanent brain damage from an anti-psychotic medication called Respirdal.
Have you looked into the natural treatments for that? Evening Primrose Oil: http://www.mycustompak.com/healthNotes/Supp/Evening_Primrose_Oil.htm Vitamin E and others: http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/natural.htm This on a supplement-selling site, but the info is from "Healthnotes" and is all footnoted: http://www.puritan.com/HealthNotes/Concern/Tardive_Dyskinesia.htm
Since she is so young, her brain may be much more resilient than the conventional thinking would allow. Good luck to you.
Posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 10:00:25
In reply to what about probiotics? » Larry Hoover, posted by beardedlady on March 30, 2003, at 10:11:14
> Does everyone have to take some probiotics (like live yogurt cultures) while taking magnesium? Eby's site says it's a must.
I am taking them. I am following everything he says on that site like a faithful old dog. ;) That's far from my usual style, but the man's info DID give me my life back! In the last 5 weeks, when I felt the dark fog creeping back a couple days, after the panic had subsided (!!), I read his site again and found out where I had erred. Then I finally printed it out so I could highlight and make notes. I got the impression from correspondence with him that he regularly gets feedback from people -- especially when they are NOT helped at first -- so he has figured these things out from others' experiences as well as his own.
Posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 10:03:40
In reply to Re: double double quotes » JLx, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2003, at 17:06:28
Thanks, it's a great feature and one I wasn't aware of.
Posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 10:09:39
In reply to P.S. » Larry Hoover, posted by beardedlady on March 31, 2003, at 9:21:01
> If you need to know anything about child rearing, poetry writing, mosaic making, or house painting, just ask away.
I dunno about Larry, but I could use your help. My child recently scrawled graffiti poetry and glued a tiled mosaic on the exterior of our neighbor's house. Now I need to hire a house painter. Any recommendations?
-- Ron
Posted by johnj on March 31, 2003, at 10:34:49
In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » johnj, posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 9:22:18
HI JLX:
Of course I don't mind you giving some advice. I always encourage others to post any experiences/advice they might have. That is what makes this site so great.
I actually like the sleepiness it gives me. I haven't tried any boron and need to read that website thourghly. I have been just basking in finding my old self again after so much time.
I don't by any means think I am "cured" yet. I am going to take it slow and just add natural methods (excercise, tai chi,) and see what happens. I will most likely reduce my benzo dose first. and try to get what I was at a year ago. That is my first goal. My AD will be the last thing, but I don't see that happening for 6 months or a year from now. It is good to hear someone else has benefited too. take care and keep us posted on your progress! So, how are you doing now and how much Mg are you taking? What about other vitamins? Do you suffer from anxiety and depression? Sorry for the questions, but I would be interested if our experience/illness are similiar. Thanks!
Johnj
Posted by beardedlady on March 31, 2003, at 11:19:44
In reply to Re: P.S. » beardedlady, posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 10:09:39
>Any recommendations?
Yes, i before e, except after c, and in weird words like weird. And sometimes y.
beardy : )>
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 31, 2003, at 15:37:13
In reply to probiotics » Larry Hoover, posted by beardedlady on March 31, 2003, at 9:18:45
> Lar:
>
> I'm heading to the health food store later and want to know, besides my 200mg. tabs of magnesium glycinate, what kind of probiotic to look for and how to take it.Well, the product I use is found in the refrigerated section. It contains three species: Lactobacillus rhamnosus, L. acidophilus, and bifidus (sp). You take it 30 minutes after a meal.
There are many different proprietary products. One of *my* considerations was price.
> Thank you, oh surpremely smart guru one.
>
> beardy : )>Oh, should I be starting a religion? ;-)
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 31, 2003, at 15:44:37
In reply to P.S. » Larry Hoover, posted by beardedlady on March 31, 2003, at 9:21:01
> I would like to support you in some way now that you have helped me so much.
I appreciate the offer.
>It doesn't look like you need my services as an English professor, as your grammar and punctuation are above par.
Well, I credit much of that to four years studying Latin. Suddenly, English made so much more sense.As an aside, marking university students' lab reports and essays, I was aghast to discover how little grammar and usage the students had learned over their many years of schooling. Trying to explain what a gerund was to one student became an exercise in futility and frustration. Or, for that matter, the scientific use of the passive voice. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that my foggy old brain has retained some of the old learnings.
>
> If you need to know anything about child rearing, poetry writing, mosaic making, or house painting, just ask away.
>
> beardy : )>I'll be sure to turn to you in a time of need.
Lar
Posted by Jack Smith on March 31, 2003, at 16:14:02
In reply to Miraculous results with magnesium!, posted by JLx on March 29, 2003, at 5:49:41
OK, I don't want to sound like I am accusing anyone but I am very skeptical of this posting. . . First off the poster constantly provides a link to this website. Second, on the website, there is a link to this website--something like "join the discussion at psychobabble about magnesium." I hope that this poster is sincere and I hope that the owner of this website is sincere BUT the website contains a whole bunch of links to the usual anti-psychiatry people. For just an example, I copied just the three links below:
Psychiatry Kills - Documented Proof Psychiatric Drugs Shorten Life Span
Peter R. Breggin, MD. and Psychiatric Drug Facts (much data about various drugs and their effects and side effects)
The Antipsychiatry Coalition> Hi all, this is my first post here though I have lurked from time to time. I found George Eby's "Rapid Recovery From Severe, Stress-Induced Depression Using Magnesium" site http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html linked on a British online psychiatry journal. I see the link has been provided here before, but I wanted to mention his name, as I think he deserves a lot of credit for all his research, provided free for the rest of us.
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 31, 2003, at 16:42:19
In reply to I am very skeptical about this posting/poster » JLx, posted by Jack Smith on March 31, 2003, at 16:14:02
Posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 17:18:50
In reply to I am very skeptical about this posting/poster » JLx, posted by Jack Smith on March 31, 2003, at 16:14:02
> OK, I don't want to sound like I am accusing anyone but I am very skeptical of this posting. . . First off the poster constantly provides a link to this website. Second, on the website, there is a link to this website--something like "join the discussion at psychobabble about magnesium." I hope that this poster is sincere and I hope that the owner of this website is sincere BUT the website contains a whole bunch of links to the usual anti-psychiatry people.
Hmmpf! What would be my ulterior motive? What would be his? I know he did a TON of research to come up with the info he did, because I did a lot of research just to find him! I found his site linked on here http://www.priory.com/psych.htm : The International Forum for Psychiatry - the world's First Internet Medical Journal
Editor: Dr Ben Green, MB, ChB, MRCPsych ILTM. University of Liverpool. Please note that's "Psychiatry" not ANTIPsychiatry. On that page, under "Latest Articles and Papers", there is a link called "The Best of Other Psychiatry Pages". From there, click on PSYCHIATRY, and on there scroll down about half way, under Affective Disorders, Eby's site is linked as "Depression and magnesium - user page with interesting ideas". That's how I found his site -- from a British online psychiatry journal, just as I said.
And I had no idea this site was linked on Eby's site, but so what that it is?I've never read Peter Breggin's book nor have I been "antipsychiatry" until NOW. My life is in shambles from years of depression -- that's "treated" depression btw -- and if it weren't for George Eby's site called "Rapid Recovery From Severe, Stress-Induced Depression Using Magnesium" -- and here's that link AGAIN ;)
http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html I wouldn't even be posting here because I USED TO BE TOO DEPRESSED TO DO SO. I used to wake up right into the feeling of wanting to put a gun to my head, and then commenced wondering how I was going to get through another day, or gee, should I try another drug? Another doctor? Spend some more hundreds of dollars on PSYCHIATRY instead of making another house payment? Check into a hospital? (No, probably not that one as I have no insurance.)After 3 DAYS on magnesium, I woke up in a positive mood, spontaneously sat up in bed and stretched --something I can't remember doing since I was a teenager -- and thought, hey, what shall I get done today?? That's a miracle.
I don't have a job, I don't have an income. I'm facing foreclosure on my house. I'm thousands of dollars in debt and have 3 court judgments against me. I've lost all but one friend, my previous career, my savings and just about everything else TO PSYCHIATRY TREATED DEPRESSION but I feel better today than I have felt in years!! I am no longer depressed thanks to George Eby and his provided-for-free information that saved my life!! That's how it feels to me. I NOW have my life back. I NEVER expected to EVER AGAIN feel even HALF this good. Yes, I am now cynical and jaded about psychiatry. Magnesium for depression is not something completely unknown and obscure. There were medical studies done decades ago. What do we pay psychiatrists for except their scientific expertise and knowledge about the human body? My psychiatrist pooh-poohed any possible beneficial effect from magnesium when I specifically asked him and IF I HAD LISTENED TO HIM, I would not be here today posting because I used to be too depressed to communicate!!
I don't care if you believe me. I only care to spread this word about something that SAVED MY LIFE FROM THE ABSOLUTE EVERYDAY HELL OF DEPRESSION -- and that's while on antidepressant drugs, thank you very much -- just in case it might benefit someone else. Even one person.
Posted by Jack Smith on March 31, 2003, at 18:12:42
In reply to Re: I am very skeptical about this posting/poster » Jack Smith, posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 17:18:50
Posted by beardedlady on March 31, 2003, at 19:42:11
In reply to Convinced me to try it, I hope I'm eating my words (nm) » JLx, posted by Jack Smith on March 31, 2003, at 18:12:42
I sent George an e-mail telling him I'd learned of his site from here, and he asked for a link, so I sent him to the site and to the thread.
Sorry. I don't think the link was there before.
beardy : )>
Posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 20:02:32
In reply to Re: I am very skeptical about this posting/poster » Jack Smith, posted by JLx on March 31, 2003, at 17:18:50
Hi JLx,
> I've lost all but one friend, ...
You're back up to two. Please add me to your list of friends. I admire your tenacity. I hope your early results continue long term!
-- Ron
Posted by johnj on March 31, 2003, at 21:37:03
In reply to I am very skeptical about this posting/poster » JLx, posted by Jack Smith on March 31, 2003, at 16:14:02
I am not skeptical at all. The reason being I have had the best sleep in about 1.5 years the last 10 days. I sleep deep and wake up ready to go. The first few days were strange since I felt better, but it felt odd NOT to feel bad. I started a week ago Friday taking 200 mg of Mg citrate and after two days upped it to 400 mg. I slept only 6 hours last night, but I felt better than when I have gotten eight and wouldn't get out of bed. I cannot explain what is going on with the Mg, but I have been able to work outside, do some tai chi, and yoga. Most excercise, if you look back at my posts the inability to excercise is a reocurring topic. Well, I lifted weights today and this is the true test to see if the Mg is helping me. Placebo? No way, I have tried SAM-e, etc., and nothing has helped me like Mg. I still take all my meds and quitting them is a long way off. But, for now, the Mg is working great. I hope it works for you.
johnj
Hey Ron tell Jack I'm no fake. take care all
Posted by johnj on March 31, 2003, at 21:38:30
In reply to I'm not skeptical at all about this post/poster » JLx, posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 20:02:32
Same effects for me too :)
Posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 22:13:11
In reply to Jack, Jack, Jack » Jack Smith, posted by johnj on March 31, 2003, at 21:37:03
Hey John,
> I still take all my meds and quitting them is a long way off. But, for now, the Mg is working great.
I've been very happy for you ever since I read your first post regarding your response to the magnesium supplementation. I hope the success extends into the long-term.
I have taken supplemental magnesium for about two years. It helps my sleep and I deem it worthwhile. However, my results have not been nearly as profound as yours. I currently take 400 mg (measured as Mg) magnesium citrate and 400 mg (measured as Mg) magnesium malate. I take it all at bedtime to avoid the drowsiness that occurs if I take it during the day.
-- Ron
Posted by McPac on March 31, 2003, at 23:16:28
In reply to Re: Magnesiun » johnj, posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 22:13:11
Just DON'T waste your money on magnesium OXIDE. It's cheap, rightly so, because it's not absorbed or utilized well at all by the body. It is also the popular form at many health food stores, due to it's cheapness. Stick with magnesium glycinate, malate or orotate.
Posted by JLx on April 1, 2003, at 9:03:46
In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » JLx, posted by johnj on March 31, 2003, at 10:34:49
Hi, Johnj, sorry I didn't see your post yesterday. Slow learning curve here with this site. ;)
I'm still doing great. I truly feel cured. :) It may not ONLY be the magnesium, however, as I have been taking fish oil now long enough that that may have "kicked in" as well, along with other supplements and dietary changes.
I'm freaking out at the cost of all my supplements, so I'm trying to experiment to try to determine how I feel in relation to what I just took or didn't take each/previous day so it all varies. 800 to 1,000 mg of magnesium is a given. I haven't determined yet if there's a difference between magnesium glycinate or citrate in how I feel.
I take a 1 capsule multi-vitamin/mineral without iron most days, taking 400 mg of magnesium with it to balance the 250mg of calcium that is in it. I add zinc picolinate, 50 mg. Vit. E 200 mg 3/day always. A&D 10,000/400 IU as fish liver oil, every other day. Vit B complex 50 mg once or twice a day, sometimes less as I just read recently that some people can have too much folic acid. I have more investigating to do on that one. Have you ever been to this site? http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/default.htm It's a good one, imo. Check out their articles section: http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/articleindex.htm
I also take 6-9 mg of boron, 1000mcg of B12 (when I remember), Vit. C 500 mg plus 1,000 mg of bioflavonoids whenever I eat/take anything else, sometimes 1,000 mg of C at a time. I take the extra C especially with cheapo fish oil (4 or more 1,000 mg capsules/per day) to counteract its likely rancidity. I also take more expensive non-rancid fish oil, a DHA dominant capsule (from Carlson labs) and another 1,000 mg salmon oil (from Carlson's) at a different time. Some people cannot convert EPA to DHA effectively I've read, so I take both in case I'm one of them. At night I take 1,300 mg of evening primrose oil. And I was taking 1,000 mg/day of CLA but I ran out. Ditto for 2-4 grams of inositol per day.
Prior to the magnesium experiment, DHEA was the only supplement that I could really tell improved my mood, so I still take 25 mg of that each morning. Peruvian maca also for hormone support. Probiotics in the morning before breakfast.
Besides depression, I figured I was also hypoglycemic and had a Candida problem too so I take extra GTF chromium 2-600 mg per day for that, and an AntiCandida forumula with caprylic acid, oregano oil, etc. Garlic is also good for yeast and many other things so I take that every day. I have different kinds and strengths and just grab one or two with each meal. Lecithin 1200 mg, enzymes and various kinds of fiber capsules with every meal. 30 mg of COQ10 twice a day for energy and other reasons. (I wish I could afford more.) Alpha lipoic acid is said to be a great antioxidant, especially good for one's liver, and is supposed to be helpful with SSRI-induced weight gain also. It's expensive, but I take 100 mg 2-300 mg 2-3/day for those reasons. Also for my liver, Silymarin 150 mg once or twice a day. I'm being extra kind to it after years of sugar and processed food abuse. ;) I will discontinue that one when it runs out.
I take a "brain support" formula once or twice a day that has 60 mg of gingko, PS (phosphatidyl serine) 150 mg, Acetyl L-carnitine 100 mg, DHA powder from algae, 100 mg, Choline 25 mg, Inositol 25 mg. Also another formula of N-Acetyl Cysteine with selenium and molybdenum. I forget now specifically why I bought that last one!
At night I take 3 mg of melatonin and 50 mg of 5-HTP and 200 or 400 mg of magnesium or a Epsom Salt foot soak and usually the amino acid glycine for further relaxation of my back.
I'm a long-term supplement-taking person -- at least a multi, extra C, Bs, herbal women's formula and anything else that I would read was recommended for depression/anxiety -- so the volume of all this doesn't bother me. I wanted to get off to a good start too supporting my brain, liver and metabolism in general this first month, and I will probably discontinue some of those for the long term. I'm drinking distilled water now, lots of it, but I hope to find something cheaper. My diet is pretty much the "stone age diet" I think -- and I've lost 30-some pounds now, in 5 weeks. I always walked for exercise but now I'm walking faster and farther. It's all been as EASE-y as can be starting with the first day on magnesium. :)
For anxiety, as needed, (I'm job hunting!) 500 mg of the amino acid GABA on an empty stomach works good -- much better and quicker than the Xanax or Klonopin I've been on in the past.
The only thing I have yet to straighten out is a low thyroid problem. But that's 'nother medical frustration story.
Still, life is good. :) I'm glad you're having some success with magnesium too. I know just what you mean by, "I have been just basking in finding my old self again after so much time."
Posted by johnj on April 1, 2003, at 9:35:38
In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » johnj, posted by JLx on April 1, 2003, at 9:03:46
Well, I decided since I haven't been able to work out and I did a lot outside on Saturday and Sunday I lifted weights on Monday about 6:00 pm. Had a hard time falling asleep and woke up early. I think maybe I overdid it. It just feels as if my body wants to make up for lost time working out. I did not get dizzy like I usually do and felt good after the workout. I will take a break and try to slow myself down. I wonder if Mg is depleted when a person works out, such as weightlifing?? Anybody have an idea?
Posted by JLx on April 1, 2003, at 9:35:43
In reply to I'm not skeptical at all about this post/poster » JLx, posted by Ron Hill on March 31, 2003, at 20:02:32
> Hi JLx,
>
> > I've lost all but one friend, ...
>
> You're back up to two. Please add me to your list of friends. I admire your tenacity. I hope your early results continue long term!
>
> -- RonThank you very much! :)
One reason I feel quite confident that these results will continue is that the least depressed I've felt in my adult life was when I was on a real "health kick" for a few years, eating lots of whole grains, legumes and nuts -- food full of magnesium. Then I was undone by major stress and started eating poorly again and that ol' depression snowball just kept rolling.
So NOW I have all this new knowledge of magnesium for stress as the key ingredient to preventing depression, as well as other variables that I know I can try such as amino acids for anxiety.
I am quite optimistic -- which is a clear indication of freedom from depression in itself. :)
Posted by beardedlady on April 1, 2003, at 9:45:55
In reply to Re: Miraculous results with magnesium! » johnj, posted by JLx on April 1, 2003, at 9:03:46
JLx:
You take a lot of stuff! I don't know how you can tell what is working and what isn't. And this is in addition to meds that don't work? And you can't eliminate them because?
> Besides depression, I figured I was also hypoglycemic and had a Candida problem too
Please don't take this the wrong way, but how did you "figure" this? Did you have a test for it?
I need to be honest with you about my feelings about candidiasis. All kinds of new age practitioners are bandying about this idea that candidiasis is responsible for a laundry list of symptoms, and if you have any three (which include vision changes, headaches, nasal stuffiness, insomnia, hypersomnia, weight loss, weight gain, forgetfulness, poor concentration, anxiety, depression), you've obviously got this illness. All those things can have many other causes, and I don't know anyone in the universe who doesn't have at least three of the symptoms found on those web sites. (Those same symptoms are also listed as symptoms of aspartame use and fibromyalgia.)
My best friend believes she has it and has been buying all these expensive "doctor-recommended" supplements and doing these ridiculous diets that are impossible to stick with--all to get rid of an illness that even alternative doctors don't believe in. She has never had thrush in her life, and she hasn't had a vaginal yeast infection since she was 16. And she's healthy and hasn't had an antibiotic in about 15 years.
If you have candidiasis, it usually manifests itself as thrush and/or a yeast infection. A cotton-y, fungus-y tongue cultured for candida will tell, as will a vaginal or penile discharge. That's how you can tell you have an internal problem.
If you do not have these things, consider yourself yeast free. Our bodies manufacture good flora all the time--UNLESS we are taking massive antibiotics or have an illness such as cancer or AIDS, whose medications can kill good flora.
I'm adamant about this because my grandmother died of candidiasis! It is a deadly disease. If yeast overtakes your body (and it will if your body is unable to manufacture good flora), you die. But taking chromium or garlic or even probiotics doesn't stop that amount of yeast. Healthy, non-hospitalized people with non-life threatening diseases just don't have rampant yeast throughout their bodies.
Okay. End rant.
I am really glad you are feeling good, but I am wondering now whether it's really worth going to the store to buy magnesium and probiotics. You say the magnesium saved your life, and I believe you, but I just don't know how you know it was the magnesium and not the fifteen or twenty other things you take.
I had hopes of maybe curing my insomnia once and for all, getting better sleep, reducing the number of migraines and headaches I get, and maybe being less irritable. But after seeing what you take each day, I am overwhelmed!
In fact, I'm thinking of sticking with my crappy bottle of magnesium oxide and taking 250mg. at bedtime.
beardy
Posted by JLx on April 1, 2003, at 9:54:52
In reply to A little regression last night....., posted by johnj on April 1, 2003, at 9:35:38
> Well, I decided since I haven't been able to work out and I did a lot outside on Saturday and Sunday I lifted weights on Monday about 6:00 pm. Had a hard time falling asleep and woke up early. I think maybe I overdid it. It just feels as if my body wants to make up for lost time working out. I did not get dizzy like I usually do and felt good after the workout. I will take a break and try to slow myself down. I wonder if Mg is depleted when a person works out, such as weightlifing?? Anybody have an idea?
Yes, I think it is. I was noticing in my local super-all-purpose-market that they now have TwinLab magnesium located right next to all the Rip Fuel-type supplements the body builders take.
I think there's also something in the book "The Cortisol Connection" about cortisol released during vigorous exercise, which would counteract the stress-reducing action of magnesium. I will look it up in there as I still have it from the library. I found much food for thought in that book once I understood the magnesium/stress/depression connection. The doctor who wrote that book, btw, is a sports medicine guy. Here is his book's website:
http://www.cortisolconnection.com/index.php
He answers questions there, and there are also questions asked previously to reference. (No search engine though.)
It makes sense to me too that sweating alone would deplete magnesium.
In the five weeks I've been feeling cured from depression using magnesium, I have been monitoring my mood probably far more than I ever did before, as I've been scared it could all be snatched away from me as quickly and easily as it had been given. Each time I felt a little "downward" turn, once I was done panicking ;) I read Eby's site again, or figured out from some other information what I'd been doing wrong/differently. When I corrected that, then I felt better again.
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