Posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2013, at 19:22:07
In reply to Re: the commons, posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2013, at 17:58:50
An outsider could be relatively objective. Because sometimes it is hard to be objective (to do the calculus properly) when you are enmeshed in some way.
Like the idea that the fairest division of wealth etc would be decided by a group of people who had been hypnotised or something so they didn't know *who they would be* / what position in society they would take up. So they would try and make it so that things were fair for all... And that the worst off wasn't too badly off in case that worst off individual turned out to be them.
I think I could feel a lot more compassionately and objectively about what might be good to solve this tragedy of the commons if:
1) I wasn't sick.
2) I knew my dishes were hygenically clean.And so on. Because I know what I need to do is take a deep f*ck*ng breath and model 'appropriate use of emotional responses' to others (which in fact comes f*ck*ng hard for me) in order to take several hours out of my life to chat to everyone on the whole f*ck*ng complex... To track down what teh f*ck is going on with the dishwashing detergent and sort that sh*t out. Why? Because nobody else is capable. How do I know that? Because they haven't done it already and because: They all got sick. Which is (of course) not in their interests at all.
So: I think that sometimes what is in fact needed or helpful is something like the view from nowhere or the objective outsider position.
I think the idea of mutual benefit is important re: co-operation. I think that people do not do things that they know to be good for themself in part because they feel bad for not sharing and in part because they feel that they are being taken advantage of when they do share. Some people can't reciprocate (they can't do the calculus or something). Some people won't. Because they can get away with it.
I think the can't / won't thing is very very very f*ck*ng important in terms of our help vs let f*ck*ng die intuitions...
E.g., If someone has a bad back so they can't sit at their office desk and work they are off sick... Then we discover them sitting on their couch all day watching the cricket we have the urge to punish them for having us on. But if someone has a bad back so they can't sit in their office desk and work they are off sick... Then we discover they can't get in their car and drive to the golf course (their favourite activity in the world) because their back hurts too much when they sit... We have rather more sympathy.
Something about tracking pay-off structures.
here is teh crucial bit: It doesn't rely on judgement of intent.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:1047868
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20130914/msgs/1051308.html