Posted by OldSchool on February 1, 2002, at 19:34:26
In reply to Shar - Look at this Differently, posted by mair on February 1, 2002, at 13:12:35
> Shar- Sorry but I take a different view of all this. I'm concerned that you may be denying yourself access to a group that you really want to join and maybe jeopardizing your relationship with a trusted and valued therapist out of stubbornness, a desire to rebel, misguided principle or a pride which does not really have your best interests at heart.
>
> Your therapist has admitted that this verbal agreement will not prevent you from committing suicide if you have overwelming thoughts that this course is what you must do. Given your sense of commitment, what the agreement will do is make you pause and maybe distract you from the kind of thinking that might make you actually take action. I believe that those of us who do ruminate but not act, while not influenced by a bargain we've struck, are influenced by other thoughts that serve the same purpose as an agreement might for you. For instance, when I feel increasingly suicidal I automatically start thinking in realistic terms about how my suicide will affect my family and sometimes my therapist as well who's worked very hard over the last few years to keep me from becoming another suicide statistic.
> My own suicidal thoughts can be very forceful and sometimes can kick in quite frequently but they have never been totally constant for more than a matter of days. As long as they're not constant, I think the kind of thinking I engage in to counteract moving to that next step is healthy thinking, which makes me safe. I'm sure I could get to a more critical stage. If so I'll either not be thinking or caring about my family or will be taking an entirely different view about the effect of my death. I assume if you really get to that stage, a verbal agreement you made with your therapist is going to be the last thing you'll think or care about. We all have a right to take our lives. I don't think this promise takes that right away from you - it may stop you from doing something that you'd regret if you had the opportunity to "undo" it.
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> I realize that there are others on this Board who are willing to feed your sense of offence and outrage and are highly critical of your therapist for making the requirement to begin with. However, I can't see how you have anything to gain by refusing her (other than the satisfaction of knowing that you won a foolish battle of wills) and a huge amount to lose. I concede that I'm obviously not privy to your discussions with your therapist and that there may be other factors which contribute to this being the complicated issue that this seems to be for you. However, based on what you have shared with us, I think that you should swallow your pride, agree to this term and then just forget about it (eg stop obsessing about it). My guess is that you'll be far more advantaged by the group and this therapy than you will by not adding an additional element of conscience to your decision process.
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> Sorry to be so blunt but I really think you're doing yourself a disservice by drawing an unnecessary line in the sand.
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> It's also only a year.
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> MairMair, not wanting to sign some silly, cheesy "suicide agreement" or pact has absolutely NOTHING to do whatsoever with being rebellious as you imply. Im a conservative person...hardly rebellious. I dont drink, use recreational drugs, dont smoke and have never had problems with the law or any other similar type behavior which would indicate rebelliousness or disrespect for authority. In fact Im more the opposite. But I can tell you one thing for sure, having your therapist ask you to sign some suicide agreement is something I would never do. Not because I might committ suicide, but because its the idiot treatment. Its stupid. Its cheesy. Its being treated like a little kid. Its just plain goofy.
Many therapists are goofy.
When I was in the hospital for a short period, after I got discharged I was in this silly day hospital program for five days(which made me feel much worse BTW). And the day hospital counselor made us pledge this suicide pact crap everyday. It was like this oral oath you took everyday. It made me feel like a little kid or something...the therapist also read poetry to us everyday. Can you believe that? LOL
I grudgingly went along with it...it was nothing written. It was just an oral pledge "not to committ suicide." It made me feel humiliated and it was demoralizing to me. It honestly made me feel worse because I was not suicidal and it made me realize that these assholes honestly believed the people in my day hospital program were suicidal. Which included me. That pissed me off. I very much got the impression I was being given the little kiddy, "idiot treatment" and Im a grown man.
F**k this suicide agreement and as long as Shar is not in the hospital or something where she just has to go along to get along and get discharged and not rock the boat, I think she should tell her therapist that her idea is silly and makes her feel like she is getting the idiot treatment.
If I was in the hospital and a therapist asked me to do that, I would oblige but only to not make waves while I was hospitalised, so I could get discharged. Id go along, grudgingly so. And I might complain once I was discharged. Outpatient...forget it.
The idiot treatment never works, it always makes people feel worse and mentally ill people get too much of it as it is. The idiot treatment needs to stop in mental health profession and depressed people need to start getting treated with some respect for a change. Getting some real respect would go farther in preventing a person from committing suicide than humiliating them and demoralizing them by asking them to sign some silly "suicide agreement" iel; the idiot treatment.
Old School
poster:OldSchool
thread:17208
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020125/msgs/17696.html