Posted by chdurie2 on October 11, 2000, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: Caroline, you are SO out of line, posted by Greg on October 11, 2000, at 19:30:57
> Caroline,
>
> As I said, I respect everyone's opinion whether I agree with it or not. I respect and better understand your opinion after reading your post here and the one below. I just believe that there has to be an area between "tea and sympathy" and beating them over the head with a baseball bat. It isn't your opinion I disagree with, it's the way you chose to voice it.
>
> So yes, let's agree to disagree on this one. I have found your other posts to be intelligent and insightful and look forward to reading them. I hope this doesn't drive a wedge in between us.
>
> Greg
>
> > > Caroline,
> > >
> > > I find your post incredibly rude and offensive. First you make assumptions about this person's character, then you level unfounded accusations (by your own admission, "a wild guess") against them. Your post is in no way, shape or form supportive, positive or even to be considered constructive critism. My question to you is, Who do you think you are to treat another human being with this type of disrespect? Maybe you should read the site's credo before posting in the future. In case you've forgotten: "This is a message board for mutual support and education focused on non-medication-related issues." Mutual support are the key words here.
> > >
> > > Tell me honestly that you have never done anything just to gain attention. Tell me that you've never made a cry for help. Tell me that you've always "gotten it" the very first time. Why should it matter to you how many times this person has asked for help? Haven't you ever been desperate? Do your words always come out the right way?
> > >
> > > Seeing as how your issue here seems to be that Pritzker doesn't "get it", let me tell you a little story. When I first started going to AA I was in and out of the program a lot. I also went to a recovery center on three different occasions for a total of 102 days. I didn't get it the first time, or the second, or the third. But because people cared enough to support me and love me when I couldn't love myself, I eventually did get it. They kept talking to me, welcomed me back after every slip and wouldn't let me quit on myself. On Jan 3rd of 2001 I will be sober for 13 years. Not everyone gets the idea the first time around, you don't seem to grasp that.
> > >
> > > There are 100 different ways that you could have expressed your feelings to this person. Why you chose to attack her so negatively is beyond me. If this person chooses to leave and not return, it will be a shame that it is due largely in part (not entirely) to their treatment by a member of the Babble family. There has been far too much of this type of thing go on here over the last year, and I thought it had finally come to an end. But I see that it is rearing it's ugly head again. I believe in positive feedback, constructive critism and the ever so often needed kick in the butt. But your post goes way over the line.
> > >
> > > I know that some of you out there agree with what was said and I respect everyone's right to their opinion. That is not my issue. The opinion was not the problem, how it was voiced certainly is.
> > >
> > > If I'm in the ocean drowning and you have the choice of throwing me a life preserver or an anchor, which is it Caroline?
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > Note to Dr.Bob:
> > >
> > > I know I'm probably going to catch Hell for this and I'm willing to take my punishment for it, even if that means being banned. I hope you know that I felt that this was the right thing to do.
> > >
> > > Nuff said.
> > >
> > > > Pritzer-I don't know why i'm falling into your trap of paying attention to your posting, but you're clearly not listening to what people are trying to tell you, surprisingly bluntly for the people on this board (not to put anyone down.)
> > > >
> > > > But first, I had a horrible thought which I must get out--your Dr. H., who is so cute and who doesn't know of your existence or your crush, is not our Dr. Bob, is he? I certainly don't know all the p-docs with a big psychotherapy presence on the web, but our Dr. Bob is Dr. Hsaing. It would be an unfortunate coincidence if this were the case, since posting a big long thing about your crush and describing his colleagues in detail on his own website might, if Dr. Bob were reading this, and if he was Dr. H., certainly be a way of calling attention to your unrequited crush.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't even dare mention this possibility, except that your only satisfaction seems to come from the recognition of these professionals, who are clearly not, in any way, your equals. And you will manipulate until you are blue in the face to get even an ounce of recognition - or equality. So forgive me here if I am way off the mark, but someone that desperate to manipulate others in order to prove to himself something that is clearly not true (your professional equality) just might use this board to get to the object of his/her affections.
> > > >
> > > > But let's put that aside and assume my wild guess is very inaccurate, and that I owe you an apology for even suggesting such a thing.
> > > >
> > > > you say that your wildest dream is to have a posting or somesuch as long as Dr. Bob's board. What would that prove? That people like you? That you are worthy of so much attention? Let me remind you that some of the greatest sick-os of our time have gotten gobs of attention. you confuse attention with acceptance and liking.
> > > >
> > > > Try instead looking at your own worth, instead of trying to derive it from whatever attention you may get from these professionals, who are not your equals.
> > > > you seem not to hear that someone here suggested that you find better things to do than following these people around and fixating on their every move. that's your sickness - that your only sense of worth comes from the extent to which you can infiltrate these people's lives and "befriend" them, based on something you are not.
> > > >
> > > > you also seem not to hear that you are ripping yourself off by not befriending your fellow students? What are you afraid of, that they will come to know you as you are? There is certainly a safety in trying to "befriend" people who will never really accept you. I know that stunt well - I, unfortunately, have done that all too often.
> > > >
> > > > When others here have suggested that you take your writings here to your psychiatrist, or at least tell him/her the content - you feign ignorance and innocence. youn think we mean call the whole staff together and have a big meeting about your feelings toward them. NO!!!! We, and I'll include myself here, mean talk to Dr. T. about this stuff, cuz you need lots of help - and it's not in how to more successfully get these people's attention. You need to forget all this stuff and build or discover an identity based on your own worth.
> > > >
> > > > you're also not paying attention to the comment that the business of psychotherapy is about helping others, whereas you seem to be interested only in you.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, you'll never get anywhere, in therapy, in school, or professionally, unless you start being willing to learn, instead of trying to defend yourself and your own beliefs. I don't know if you can hear this, but I'm 48 years old, and I've just started to learn this.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if you can hear this - take it from someone who has made a career thinking she is better than other people: I have studying for my law boards for almost two years, and I have not taken them, because no matter how hard I practice, I cannot get above a certain score - which is not acceptable to me. I have justified and rationalized what I have done til I am blue in the face. This time, I took the whole subject area apart, piece-by piece, to see if I am making substantive mistakes--which heretofore, I thought I was too good to be doing. Guess what! I was making substantive mistakes, and Ill have to improve in those areas to get the score I want. It was amazing for me to see my mistakes, since everyone, including me, thinks I am a born lawyer. But a year ago, I would have rationalized those mistakes.
> > > >
> > > > So it is with you. You need to look at thing as they are. Which, by the way, have you noticed that a large part of your own thread on this board are your own replies? Good to be responsive, but I get the feeling you're trying to manipulate us into writing more.
> > > >
> > > > sorry i'm not more "supportive."
> > > >
> > > > Caroline
> >
> > Greg:
> >
> > I don't think you should be banned or punished for what you wrote, so I certainly hope Dr. Bob doesn't.
> >
> > I'm sorry (meaning I regret, not that I apologize) that you feel the way you do. There's a bit more behind my response to Pritzker, if you're willing to read another posting of mine below to Mark & Shar (obviously intended for everyone.)
> >
> > I just felt (and still do) that Pritzker had gone way over the line, and there was a determinedness about it that other people here were quick to point out in no uncertain terms, but the initial response from her was more narcissism.
> >
> > You're right, I could have been more gentle. I was horrified by what I read, and to check my response, I read the other threads. As I said, I saw some normally gentle people equally horrified, but I saw nothing that made sense getting through. Had I seen Pritzger's posting thanking people, I probably wouldn't have responded so hard. Or maybe not even at all.
> >
> > But sometimes support is not "tea and sympathy," as my p-doc would say, and I felt that this was one of those times. there is a difference between a plea for help (difficulty with circumstances or dealing with yourself) and a plea for help to continue doing something very destructive, and in Pritzker's own words, quite manipulative.
> >
> > Of course, I have done stuff to demand attention, a lot of not-so-healthy stuff. Why do you think I'm starting over (again) at 48? But I guess I don't mind being confronted if what I'm doing is crap- and certainly if it's dangerous psychologically.
> >
> > I believe that there is something wrong with actively trying to be something you are not, such as a mediocre student trying to make professionals believe she is one of them and will not be happy until she has done so.
> >
> > Although in my posting below, I point out that there has been a germ - a germ I'm fighting - of Pritzger in me, I also once had a tenant who was so good at pretending to be a p-doc that he had almost everyone fooled - including some professionals. I know this because a p-doc I went to a few years ago fired my tenant when the real p-doc checked my tenant's credentials and found out he hadn't even finished two years at a community college. So maybe this will help you see why Pritzker's behavior scares me.
> >
> > Your work in AA sounds like something very different than what I read here with Pritzker. And I think you're right, that like AA, this should be a place where people can come, no matter how much they screw up. But when people come, saying, in effect, "please support me in helping me to screw up," I don't think we should.
> >
> > And if they need to bolt, that's their business. I'm not responsible, as neither are you, for someone else's bolting. we all have choices.
> >
> > so let's agree to disagree, as the saying goes.
> >
> > carolinegreg:
thanks for your response. there's no wedge here, believe me. and thanks for the compliments on my other posts. i'll look forward to reading yours, too.
And 13 years of alcohol is tough stuff to beat, i know. I come from a family of alcoholics, and ironically, I am actually allergic to alcohol. (I unsuccessfully tried to socially drink and never could understand why people liked to drink, until a few years ago, beer, wine and hard liquor showed up as my #1, #2, and #3 physical allergies in testing.) But I've had other addictions, like compulsive shopping, spending and collecting. It's great that you're on the other side of alcoholism.
See you later on this board!Caroline
poster:chdurie2
thread:974
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20001011/msgs/994.html