Posted by alexandra_k on December 2, 2005, at 15:40:46
In reply to Re: Regarding CBT » alexandra_k, posted by ace on December 2, 2005, at 8:21:22
> No!! ha ha!
:-)
> > so you think biochemistry is the *only* factor involved in mental illness?> Yes. When we talk about psychosis, OCD, clinical depression, I believe so.
Hmm.
> Although the environment can very very slighty BRIEFLY affect these. But only briefly and slightly and rarely.
only briefly and slightly and rarely...
> All mental illness as presented in the CORE (not all) of the DSM.And the 'core' would be?
> Mental illness, by definition, describes illness of the brain.
Right. But... What do you mean by illness?
There are a variety of things that could go 'wrong' with ones brain...
transmitter...
structure...
neural connections...> > you don't think the structure of neural connections might have something to do with it as well?
> What do you mean here?you don't think cerebral trauma (where there is lesion) can lead to 'mental illness' type symptoms? this is a case of the STRUCTURE being out...
you don't think differences such as... enlarged ventricals and smaller regions in the brain can lead to 'mental illness' type symptoms? this would be another case of the STRUCTURE being out...>Neural connections cant created/lost through NLP or that clown Anthony Robbins.
Okay. I'll say first up... Not to get me started on NLP or 'that clown' Anthony Robbins ;-) Because... I think I might be round about as hostile to them as you are...
But you don't mean to lump together those and CBT as well, do you?
> Think of it this way....if we could change our brain biochemistry by will, we could completely interfere with hormones,negative feedback, and even "talk ourselves" into changing the colour of our hair, ha ha!
Who said anything about 'conscious will'
I was just talking about the environment having the power to alter ones neural connections...> > you don't think your experience in the world changes your neural connections?
> Sure they do. But not CONSCIOUSLY or BY AN ACT of WILL.
Right. I never even mentioned those latter things.
> > you don't think talking / thinking things through counts as an experience in the world
> No.Hmm. Dare I ask what you think talking / thinking is if not an activity that occurs in the world and thus... becomes part of your environment and thus... has the power to alter your neural connections?
> and thus has the power to change your neural connections?
> No. Not in a conscious manner.Why do you keep bringing consciousness into it?
One theory of consciousness (in psychology) is that the function of consciousness is to facilitate learning. Gee I wonder whether 'learning' means that the neural connections are altering in ones brain ;-)
> Yeah but the connections are their for the action potential to be set off.The connections determine which other neurons will be affected by the action potential. No point having... An action potential occuring in a neuron... That doesn't enjoy connections with other neurons...
> No action potentials, and your brain is dead.
Hmm. No neural connections and you wouldn't have a brain ;-)
> Neural connections are made by actional potentials,
?
Neural connections provide 'informational' connections so that when the neuron has an action potential... That affects other neurons. Which then go on to have an action potential...Neurotransmitters have to do with the transmission of the 'information' or the action potential across the synaptic cleft. Neurotransmitters thus modulate neuronal connections.
They can only alter the neuronal connections you already have.
Taking psychotropic medications don't alter your connections, they just moderate the weighting of the connections (to the best of my knowledge).
Wheras experience... Learning... Has the power to guide the neurons growth so that it connects to MORE neurons. Connections are being culled and grown all the time... (I think...)I think?
Or is it just that their weightings change?
> I just think this CBT and other nonsense is a farce.
I have yet to understand why...
>And defies scientific truths.
Then how do you discount the scientific studies that show CBT to be effective for a variety of conditions?
> > good luck to ya
> are you being sarcastic?No.
I'm just thinking...
That to put all ones eggs in one basket (ie medication)... Well...
I'd prefer to keep my options open is all...Sometimes there is more than one way to Rome...
More than one way to mental health...
poster:alexandra_k
thread:583989
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20051130/msgs/584661.html