Posted by 64Bowtie on February 2, 2004, at 14:17:48
<<<About my attempt to show I was seeing something not very obvious.... The terms *absolute* and *oblique* need to be put back in the closet of my mind from which they escaped!!!
>>>As I said before, your post on Admin struck a chord with me.
>http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20031120/msgs/296794.html
>In it you sounded as if you felt like an outsider on the Psychological Board, and I very much empathise with the outsider feeling. And you also seem to attribute your feelings to a particular reason, that Psychological Board posters are interested only in therapist stories, while you are interested in Growth. That is an inference from what you wrote, and could of course be incorrect, in which case I apologize.
<<<I am not diminishing your point by not discussing it sooner. No apology expected or needed. I was "shaking bushes" to see what might fall out. Puts me too close to PBC here. I'll save that "nuckle-dragging" style for group....
>>>On Social ( http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20040109/msgs/303073.html ), you wrote:
<"If people important to us avoid us because we complain all the time, when they recognize the change, they will be more available and less avoidant when we don't complain anymore. It's no secret that we have a better concept of self when we relate well with people."
>It is very true that relating well enhances self esteem, and that we would all prefer for others to be more available and less avoidant to us. And I'm sure you would agree that complaining is not the only source of avoidance and poor relations with others. Misunderstanding is another source.
<<<My bias is to suggest folks focus on slef-respect first. Without a good dose of self-respect, "other"-respect is impossible since you have no practice respecting anyone. Everybody starts out life being obligated. By there teens, they are good at obligatory thinking and obligation. Caveat: obligation is all one way! ...and we get the "short-end".
<Then in our teens, the "Genetic God" raises the stakes and gives us abilities little understood, by ourselves, and tragically, by our parents.
<What's supposed to happen till our death, we must honor our parents. I have no quarrel with that. But, if everyone senses that honor is an equal replacement word for the visceral notion of "obligation", then the whole thing about "growing up" gets messed up (in, at least, our heads and guts). I am not talking about a logical mistake here. I am saying that the "gut" voids any chance at logic, whenever it can!!!!!!!!!!!!! In this case, honor as a child needs to be updated to honor as an adult, which dramatically changes your parent/child relationship forever. ...and, along comes "respect", replacing obligation, independent of honor.
<If we haven't been encouraged to study respect in its contrast with obligation, we (I did) wake up at age 38 wondering why our lives are like a junk yard. My oldest son was only four, and so it hit home that something had to change.
<Geez. I'm 56 as of last Wednesday. I've been at this for 18 years not 15 years as I have shared in other posts.
<My Sons are 21 and 19 and working together at a FOX affiliate TV station in production. They may forever walk with an "Emotional Limp", however, I will be able to make a difference now. I was lost-in-space them days 18 years ago.
<Did I just go babbling off in some "oblique" angle???
<Back on point: along with self-worth, Self-esteem became an abstraction for me when I was still confused about obligation and respect. In all humility, I made many improvements in my life but didn't update to this concept until January 15, 2000. I was laying in bed sick with the flu and became very contemplative, I guess.
<Whatever else happened, I witnessed a "watershed" and/or "epiphany" event. My life changed dramatically, one more time.
>>>http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20031221/msgs/293417.html
>In this post, I inferred, and again I could be wrong and please tell me if I am, that you were curious that people didn't respond to what you considered to be a post that would evoke impassioned response. Your post to me, which didn't get a PBC, your post to JYL, which didn't get a PBC, and your post to Lar, which also didn't get a PBC, could also be seen as posts that had the intention of getting others to think in a different way through evoking a strong response. None of those posts broke the civility guidelines of this site, according to Dr. Bob. None merited a PBC. But all three of them resulted in a Please Do Not Post to Me, a request that could certainly be seen as others making themselves less available and more avoidant. Since you agree that having others be less available and more avoidant is undesirable (per your previous post), I was attempting to extend a hand to you in the form of greater understanding of where I, and possibly others are coming from.
<<<I accept all of that.... I OK with that.
>>>Psychobabble is not a place that really responds well to passion inducing posts.
<<<I've noticed....lol
>>>And I am also trying to make myself understood to you. I, and many people with borderline traits or borderline personality disorder, come from what Marsha Linehan calls a chronically invalidating environment. This makes me particularly sensitive to what might be seen as invalidation as an adult, and particularly receptive to those approaches that contain a fair amount of validation.
<<<If I have been guilty of diminishing your responses, please let me know. I give you the right and authority over me and my intensions here at Babble.
>>>When I see posts that seem to say that I'm not ready for change, or that I'm not interested in Growth, or that I should quit grumbling or complaining, or that the solution to my problems is to take responsibility to pull myself up by my bootstraps, or anything like that, I tend to feel that where I'm at now is not being validated.
<<<not a point of conflict: I was flailing until I got blocked. Now I am aware of the limits I BEST maintain herein. I been a whole lot more humble, don't ya' think?
>>>Your approach appears to be very direct and based on rationality. There are personality types that that approach may work very well with, but there are personality types who might feel invalidated by it.
<<<now this is where I always get into trouble: I can't wait for someone to give me their permission to accept and understand what I have in my heart. I have tried and failed by waiting.
<My bias is supported by the data that 80% of everybody are from dysfunctional families of origin rendering them only more or less dysfunctional by small degree. If sit around waiting till they accept and understand me, I would be known as a nice person, truly.
<I am here (on earth) for a reason. I sense that I can see this big picture called life clearly. I can impart my vision on anyone interested. But first I must risk being disharomious enough to be seen as distinct, or my vision fades into the "wallpaper" of life. Trust me.
<My catch 22 is that in order to make a difference which is my narrow definition of personal power, I must risk being different enough to be noticed. For those "personalities" you refer to, I can't wait for their approval of my presentation, or nothing will get done. My personal power will be a source of irritation to them, no matter anyway.
<Ask Anthony Robbins about his last 20 years of being mistaken those who defy his personal power with their arrogance rhetoric. Until NFL quarteback, Fran Tarkington started endorsing his methods, who heard of Anthony Robbins?
>>>in your own words "when they recognize the change, they will be more available and less avoidant".
<<<This was poised more for folks in their personal lives, not so much for any dynamics going on here at Babble. I don't consider anyone adopting me personally for adulation and less avoidance as a target project. I trust the universal appeal of my message independent of me and my bad habits.
>>>Now, I have put my head on the PBC block for you, and I hope you appreciate that my motivations are good and that I mean no disrespect to you or your approach. I am truly just trying to help, for whatever it's worth.
<<<Sweetums, your head is safe with me! I saw your picture.....lol
Rod
poster:64Bowtie
thread:308560
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040131/msgs/308560.html