Posted by mattdds on December 27, 2003, at 2:19:20
In reply to Or to put it another way..... » mattdds, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2003, at 23:45:19
> If you aren't sick enough of me already...
Haha, nope. I think your posts are really thoughtful actually. I'm using this thread as a challenge to not get defensive or treat this as an "argument". I'm enjoying the exchange.
>
> My much disliked biofeedback therapist told me at the first (and best) of our three sessions that there were three parts we would be dealing with - thoughts, feelings, and body. He said that the biofeedback portion would work on changing my body reactions and that doing so would change my feelings and thoughts. He said that the CBT portion of his therapy would work on changing my thoughts, and in doing so change my feelings and body reactions.
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> What he failed to say was that you can also work on changing your feelings, and that that would change your thoughts and your body reactions. The more traditional therapies work on changing your feelings. So in the first example I gave, I felt my anger and I also felt my therapist's caring stance towards me. I could remember the feelings of other fights and also the continued safe relationship. The current feelings and remembered feelings changed my body sensations by relaxing me, and changed my thoughts. Hey!!! You can be angry while you still have a caring relationship! I know this! I can feel it!
>To me, this does not seem like your emotion changed first, but your *cognitions* surrounding the emotion changed, then a subsequent change in emotion. Did I get this right? You realized that you can be angry and still have a caring relationship. No?
> I've heard that there are different ways that people have to learn. That some learn better visually, some kinetically, some through hearing. Perhaps therapy is the same way. Some learn better through their body (behavior therapy?), some through their thoughts (cognitive therapy), some through their emotions (the other therapies). And perhaps most of us learn best with all three modes used optimally.
This is so true. If you're feeling a certain way, you are more likely to think certain thoughts. Same is true if you are behaving a certain way, you are likely to feel and think certain ways that would correspond with the behavior. Emotion-cognition-behavior is a complex interplay, not a one way street. Any honest CBT-ist will admit that. It's kind of like one big equilibrium problem in chemistry. The equation can go back and forth. The problem is that we really only have *direct* control over a couple of variables - behavior (most obvious) and cognition.
I find it really hard to change feelings directly. I've tried relaxation, yoga, acupuncture, etc, all to no avail. The only form of emotional control that I know of is the control of my metacognitions surrounding my mood state. But this is still indirectly controlling emotion, and it follows a change in cognition, in my view.
If you know of any reliable methods of directly changing emotions, please let me know. I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm serious! This would be the missing link for me. Because in the end, we all just want to *feel* good. Period.
But this is the reason I sought treatment...I can't directly control my emotions. I can accept them, and not catastrophize about them. I can control the metacognitions that appear surrounding them (acceptance paradox, not magnifying). I can even pry my butt out of bed after 2 hours of sleep that was interrupted with panic attacks and attend a pharmacology exam (behavioral activation), despite my horrible mood.
But for me at least, there is no knob or button to control my emotions. That's the whole problem!!
This thread is getting good, thanks for the exchange, Dinah!
Best,
Matt
poster:mattdds
thread:293462
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20031221/msgs/293692.html