Posted by psychobot5000 on May 29, 2012, at 16:47:19
In reply to Re: Flowering Quince: dopamine reuptake inhibitor » psychobot5000, posted by SLS on May 20, 2012, at 5:07:42
Hi all,
Had a moment, so I thought Id do an update on my continuing my experiment with powdered concentrate of flowering quince (not the same as normal quince, which is a related plant).
Short summary: flowering quince appears to contain a useful agent for boosting mood and attention, but some caution regarding its use is required, largely because of cardiac side-effects typical of stimulants. I recommend those who take it as an antidepressant adjunct or ADD treatment stay aware of both heart-rate and blood-pressure for the first few weeks or months. Nevertheless, keep in mind that its side-effects (and, for me, its action) are favorable in many respects in comparison to those of many drugs.
So:
Flowering quince is indeed useful for me for mood and attention. However, as mentioned above, it seems to have the properties of a psychostimulant, not an antidepressant. I will explain what I mean by this.I recently trialed desipramine, a tricyclic antidepressant with qualities broadly similar to those of flowering quince, which is to say, they both block the reuptake of catecholamine neurotransmitters as their primary actiondopamine for flowering quince, and norepinephrine for desipramine. Though superficially somewhat similar, though, their actions on the CNS seem different. There is some initial similarity at firstboth have some positive effects on attention and focus. However, at first desipramine has no positive effect on mood. After several days, though, ones mood begins to lift. After a delay, one becomes happier, and stays that way (though I experienced some typical antidepressant side-effects, including anxiety and flattened affect).
Quince is different. Positive effects on mood start to occur, say, 20 minutes after ingesting it. The effects are immediate and dramatic, but do not increase with time. In fact, they tend to decrease somewhat, as tolerance develops (the same thing tends to happen with stimulants like amphetamine or methylphenidate/Ritalin/concerta). However, some positive effect remains, for me, after more than a week, and shows no signs of going away. These positive effects include increased interest in things and ability to react positively to events around me, as well as increased concentration. Also, in contrast to desipramine and many other antidepressants (but like amineptine), flowering quince appears to be somewhat prosexual. Essentially, in all ways Im aware of, flowering quince fits the profile of an effective psychostimulantwhich means, as Scott suggested above, that its probably most useful, for depressives, particularly those with problems with focus, motivation, psychomotor retardation, etc, as an adjunct, not as a primary antidepressant.
Concerns and notes about quince:
It must be taken WITH food. From my experience, I do not believe it is absorbed in significant quantities when taken on an empty stomach.
Appropriate dosing of the powdered concentrate seems to start at about ½ tsp per day, taken in the morning. Doses above 1 tsp seem to cause too many side-effects.
Negative side-effects can include anxiety, sleeplessness, and increased heart-rate and blood-pressure. The last of these is of most concern. While the sleeplessness is not as bad (for me) as with similar drugs, I find that flowering quince increases my resting heart-rate from about 70 beats per minute to somewhere in the 80s (and initially as high as 110). While my heart-rate has come down somewhat from the initial peaks, due presumably to tolerance, it is still a concern and a limiting factor. Those with blood-pressure, arrhythmias or rapid heart-rate should be especially careful when considering this substance. I have not checked my own blood-pressure during the course of this trialit is normally too low to be of any concern, even if the substance caused a very substantial increasebut others would do well to be aware of it. Increases in blood-pressure and cardiac output (i.e. heart-rate) can be dangerous, or hazardous to long-term health, so be wary.
I will continue the experiment. The quince is useful, but the amount I can take is limited by anxiety, sleeplessness, and heart-rate. Benzodiazepines help, so far, with the anxiety and sleeplessness, but heart-rate is still an issue. That said, the help this agent gives me is of fundamental importance to my anhedonic depression with presumed dysfunction in dopamine circuits. I hope others may find it useful as well.
I will post again. So far, I prefer this substance to amphetamine, methylphenidate, amineptine, wellbutrin, and tricyclic antidepressants, and most others, whether or not it has the power (as it were) of traditional stimulants.
-Psychobot5000
poster:psychobot5000
thread:1017886
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20111229/msgs/1018854.html