Posted by Questionmark on March 14, 2006, at 3:35:25
In reply to Re: Coffee contains beta-carbolines, posted by linkadge on March 12, 2006, at 20:08:50
> Yes, chocolate, tobacco, passionflower, and coffee all contain beta carbolines, which appear to be reversable MAOI's lasting about 6-7 hours.
>
> Cigarette smokers can achieve about 50% inhibiton of MAO activity, I don't know how coffee drinkers/cocoa eaters compare.
>
> Coffee drinkers have a statistically lower incidence of suicide. I wonder if this has anything to do with its beta carboline content.
>
> Linkadge
***{(Preface: i swear on my worthless life i didn't at all intend on writing nearly so much about nutmeg, or even at all originally. But yeah, it's really long.)}***Wow, that's interesting. Of those mentioned i only knew of passionflower and, just recently, coffee.
That tabacco statistic is especially interesting. i wonder if there are any other (safer) herbal ways of achieving that kind of MAO inhibition-- and without having to down like 8 pots of some kind of tea every day.
i actually used to contemplate what the impact of using a certain amount of nutmeg (which has definite psychactive properties) every day would be. Although i believe that some of its chemicals have been shown (how conclusively i don't know) to be somewhat toxic and/or carcinogenic, i wondered if mild but chronic use might have a positive effect on mood. A friend and i actually used to take it every once in awhile in my teenage years to achieve a moderately giddy, moderately stimulated state.
In higher doses it feels very similar to a cannabis buzz, but-- from what i remember, and for me personally-- better (less paranoia and self-conscious feelings i think) and, for better or worse, longer lasting (can't recall exactly, but i think around 7 or 8 hours.. mAYbe up to like 11 or 12?).
However, getting to that state was also (at least for awhile) a fairly imprecise and complex endeavor, as it's difficult to know exactly how much to take, when it will start to work, IF it will work, and how strongly it will work.*** {Long Aside}***
Get this though! (This is not really relevant to anything other than the "imprecise, complex science" issue of nutmeg intoxication i was speaking of, but it is fascinating to me-- especially on a psychological pharmaco-physiological level, potentially). There were actually TWO instances when i ingested nutmeg to achieve this cannabis-like state...
(and i think they were THE first two times, or two of the very first few times, that i did achieve it-- thereafter i'm pretty sure i got to this state every time i tried, about an hour after ingestion)
... and both times i felt nothing until, after about 2.5 to 4 hours in, coincidentally enough, situations arose that caused me to get extremely stressed out and angry-- like very very angry and frusterated (*i'm not talking about a drug effect here. up to these points and during these situations i was in a completely sober state). And THEN-- BOTH TIMES-- i felt the onset of the cannabis-like nutmeg intoxication almost *immediately* afterward. i've always wondered if this occurred due to the stressed & angry state bringing about biochemical changes that allowed, or caused, the nutmeg to have an effect those times (which i do believe)-- and if so, what those biochemical changes were and.. what not.
Goodness, but anyway, back to where i was.*** {Oh Wait, Another [More Brief] Aside}
There were also times, more recently, when i convinced a few other friends of mine (in an honest and encouraging manner, NOT pushy ["g*d d*mn the pusher"]) to try it, and each of the three just got pretty nauseous and felt nothing psychactive. (Yeah, i felt pretty bad).At considerably higher doses, nutmeg is apparently a powerful, and fairly atypical (from what i gather) psychedelic (i don't like the word "hallucinogen" that much). i have never really tried to get to this level of nutmeg intoxication, and certainly never did, but from anecdotes i've read it does not normally seem to be a positive experience overall, though it can be sometimes (i gather).
At the highest of doses it can actually cause death. How exactly i cannot remember although i should, but my memory sucks. i'm sick of it. But yeah. (And no i don't think it's from doing too much nutmeg).But ANYway, back to my main points about this potent little spice:
i've done quite a bit of reading on this in my years (i know, i'm a winner), and i'm almost positive that there is no consensus as to what nutmeg's pharmacological properties are, or even exactly which chemicals contained in nutmeg are definitely responsible for its psychoactive properties. From what i remember, the constituent chemicals believed to be primarily responsible for its effects are elemicin, safrole, and myristicin, and myristin-- as well as maybe another one or two, i think, other chemicals that are related to myristicin/myristin. Now i can't remember all the complicated details, but for example at least one of those chemicals was/were at least believed to be THE primary one (or more?) responsible for the psychoactive properties, but then there was some study or something where they injected a human or something with the chemical(s) and nothing was experienced-- i think. Nevermind i can't even remember for sure!! But the point is that they don't know. we don't know.
However, i'm pretty sure that nutmeg is thought to have a chemical or chemicals that is/are an adrenergic psychedelic (as mescaline is). i think it's also possible that it has MAO inhibiting properties and . Well yeah. So . i don't even remember if there was more of a point to this.
i wish i could experiment with nutmeg now and then again, though, but as i am on Nardil that would just be unwise.Oh my goodness i can't believe i just spent all this freaking time writing about nutmeg! i am a ridiculous person. Reediculous. i should have at least researched it some again and been sure of the details. god what a waste. and it should not even be in this thread or on this board, should be in pb alternative or pb substance use or somehting. Sorry Dr. Bob. Sorry people-- any of you who were actually strong enough to read through all this.
Anyhow, yeah, Myristica fragrans, it's quite an interesting plant though, i do say.
poster:Questionmark
thread:613616
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20060313/msgs/620101.html