Posted by Elainep on February 7, 2005, at 0:01:51
In reply to Re: Vitamin D is likely better than a lightbox for SAD » Elainep, posted by Shortelise on February 6, 2005, at 17:29:38
Dear ShortE,
I'm glad my previous post has convinced you to get tested for Vitamin D deficiency as well as other things. Although don't thank me until it works! I figured it would be helpful for people on this site, like you, to know that Vit D HAS worked, at least in my instance where there was a significant deficiency in my daughter. It's not just a theory.I do believe that, if the scientists are right, at least some of you on this post WILL be Vit D deficient, just by the law of averages -if up to 50% of people really are Vit D deficient because of our modern lifestyle (and I WAS!!! that's the biggest shock of all given I haven't been sun avoidant although I haven't been sun seeking either),and if, as some researchers have shown, depressed people have a lower Vit D level than non-depressed people, well then some of you out there MUST have a problem. And ShortE, if you're lying around inside alot because you're tired, well you're a prime candidate to get tested.
I'm also not entirely surprised in hindsight about the ability of Vit D to transform my daughter, now that I know what an astonishingly powerful substance it is, like a mega steroid. I looked through the posts on this site and discovered a number of other quite recent posts about Vit D: I think maybe its time is coming. I hope that you ShortE, and maybe some others will have success with this as I and my daughter did. It's NOT flaky pseudo-science, I've read a ton of that and as a trained scientist I remain skeptical about most of what I read, but Vitamin D deficiency is quite plausible as a major theory, and worked in my own instance. It really is a possibly simple explanation for many of the ailments that afflict us across the world today, and the simple explanations are often the best. Certainly it isn't proven by any means, but as the weblink I sent earlier suggests, many signs are positive and it's worth getting tested just because you can.
I'd like to give some practical advice now about my own experience of taking Vit D with my daughters, just in case some of you do get tested and discover you're deficient, then you can look back on this post for further information. Sorry to jump the gun, but once I found out Jo was deficient, a whole new set of problems arose re dosage etc.
Before you can safely take a megadose, you have to have your calcium and phosphorus levels tested to make sure you don't have a condition called hypercalcemia, so if you're going for a Vit D blood test anyway, see if you can convince your doctor to get your phosphorus levels and calcium levels done at the same time with the same blood, rather than have to come back and do it again. It's VERY uncommon to have hypercalcemia, but for safety's sake it's important to get tested. But I can't tell you the nervous desperation of having to wait another three days after discovering Jo was deficient before I could allow her to take the calciferol pills.
After the megadose, Jo became the strong minded girl she always was again, and refused to believe that Vit D deficiency was her problem! Aaaghh. It was teenage stubborness and pride and she didn't want to admit that I was right about anything because I'd become overbearing while she was sick. (I'm sure a lot of you had Moms out there who overracted upon your getting sick). Jo was nearly 18,you can imagine the mother-daughter dynamics; I may be smart but not so smart in dealing with my daughter! I had to sit back and realise that she really was going to make her own decisions in life and I couldn't make them for her. I will tell you that she just needed time, after nine months of normal serotonin levels she's far more rational about the whole thing now. But at the time she more or less refused all advice to get out in the sun. So as the potential overzealous personal crusading type you picked me out as, ShortE, I naturally began to research supplemental doses so Jo wouldn't go low again.
Now, dosage of Vit D remains a problem and a concern for alot of people. Vit D is a fat soluble subtance, and taking too much can be toxic, because you don't get rid of it in your urine like you do the water soluble vitamins. Scientists have already discovered that too much Vit A taken in supplements can be a real problem, and many supplements sold in the US include Vit A as well as Vit D. That's because most Vit D supplements are made of fish oil, and the good old cod liver oil given to kids 50 years ago had both Vit D and Vit A in it.
Okay, so the first thing I went looking for was a vit D only supplement, and one based on Vit D3 (the fish based vit) rather than Vit D2 (the plant based vit). Vit D2 isn't as powerful or as good for whatever reason. Vit D2 (ergocalciferol I think its called) is the one they use in fortified milk and bread and orange juice etc, but it's not as powerful. I read that several times in my research, I'll go back and try to find my references and in my next post I'll try to give all the Vit D 'good' references I have, because of course my interpretation is only secondhand.
Then there's argument about how much Vit D you need on a daily basis. No one seems to know. The average recommended adult dose is only 200iu (international units) a day, going up to 400iu when you're old.
The Vit D supplement that I found and liked best, made by Solgar in the UK, came as either 400iu daily doses or 1000iu daily doses. Initially I gave Jo 400iu a day because I was worried about her taking 5X the recommended daily dosage, but after just getting her blood retested at the middle end of our summer, her levels have gone down so I've now put her on to 1000iu a day. She'll get tested again in 6 months, I'll send through an update so people have further info. My Doc now tells me that elderly people in resthomes are given a 50,000iu pill once a month and doctors have been dosing them that way for years and they're all fine (actually a lot of them die, but there have never been any reported Vit D overdoses!). That is reassuring to me, I figure half the elderly dose (1000 a day is 30,0000 a month) shouldn't cause a problem of overdosing in the next 6 months.
My other daughter and I haven't been taking supplements. My levels have gone up this summer (I've done a lot more deliberate chasing of the sun than in the past) although not by much, and my other daughters levels have dropped, but by very little. But that is with both of us making an attempt to get plenty of sun! So my other daughter and I are going to start to take 400iu once the autumn comes.
A good site about Vitamin D is run by a nutritionist named Krispin Sullivan: if you do a search on google you'll find her easily. I bought a book by one of the Vit D docs mentioned on the site given in my earlier post, Michael Holick, but I admit I didn't like his book that much, I'd call it 'Vitamin D lite'. I much prefer what Krispin Sullivan has to say, I may buy her book Naked at Noon (it hadn't come out when Jo was having her problems last year.)
Okay enough ranting. Just let me say that it makes more sense to get your blood tested than just start taking Vitamin D supplements blind, as the megadose they give you is something like 100,000 iu. IF you do decide to supplement though, I think initially 1000 iu a day won't do too much harm, but I really would recommend just getting your blood tested, you'll get well an awful lot quicker that way if it is your problem, plus you'll have confirmation that it is your problem. Oh, and don't forget it's the 25(OH) levels, not the 1,25(OH) levels you want tested (read the website I gave in the earlier post).
So thanks for listening to my rant, ShortE, I cross my fingers for you and many others out there. Just be firm with your doc that you want to be tested, say you've been reading some new research about it and you want it done for your own peace of mind, that's all it is. I hope you come up deficient! (I know it's not really very nice to wish a deficiency on anyone, but I do wish it if it means an easy fix to your problems.)
Bye for now
Elainep
poster:Elainep
thread:451955
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050131/msgs/454193.html